Lively Case Discussion #514 8/19 - 8/21/2006

[Spock]

quote="the big hammer"]So Who Drives to C&C, And who Sits Where?[/quote]


No reason to lie about who was driving unless they were hiding something. Circling C&C several times makes me think they were waiting for a second car to catch up. There may have been more "pimps" at the party that night.

[SunnyinTX]

O/T

Yesterday I was hacked and they destroyed my Natalee Holloway favorites file.

Here is a good site to check your computer to see if you've been hacked or are vulnerable to being hacked.  There are 3 FREE programs on the page.

http://servicecenter.antivirus.com/tm/core/en/services/

WOW Sunfreak I am sorry to learn this...were those the only files that were destroyed?  Thanks for the link.

[San]

quote="the big hammer"]So Who Drives to C&C, And who Sits Where?

No reason to lie about who was driving unless they were hiding something. Circling C&C several times makes me think they were waiting for a second car to catch up. There may have been more "pimps" at the party that night.[/quote]
I agree. I believe they were waiting for Freddy, Koen, Sander & Jaime.

[Bearlyhere]

Oh, Deepak was getting access to girls that a nerdy looking no social skills nothing going for him kinda guy could not do on his own. He doesn't seem to be a silver tounged devil when it comes to the ladies.

That was my thought too, Katz, access to girls.

[SunnyinTX]

quote="the big hammer"]So Who Drives to C&C, And who Sits Where?

No reason to lie about who was driving unless they were hiding something. Circling C&C several times makes me think they were waiting for a second car to catch up. There may have been more "pimps" at the party that night.[/quote]

Hi Spock good to see you....I think you might be correct...wasn't there something about a white car??

[Kat_Gram]

quote="the big hammer"]So Who Drives to C&C, And who Sits Where?

No reason to lie about who was driving unless they were hiding something. Circling C&C several times makes me think they were waiting for a second car to catch up. There may have been more "pimps" at the party that night.[/quote]
That could be Spock. Or they went somewhere to get them.
Listen, when I had wierd ears, I had surgery when I was 12.

[Kat_Gram]

Spock, can I ask you what is going on at BFN ? I had some porn in my PM there and it also had come to my home. When I posted about it today, I got some snarky comments from a poster. Then I was told that I should be reporting it somewhere else .
Debbie as usual was very kind and told me that the person who was the guilty party who sent me that PM had been banned. They were on it right away. have to give them credit there.
I almost felt as if I did something wrong. Other people told me how to fix it so that crap doesn't come to the home, but it left me very uneasy.

[Spock]

Spock, can I ask you what is going on at BFN ? I had some porn in my PM there and it also had come to my home. When I posted about it today, I got some snarky comments from a poster. Then I was told that I should be reporting it somewhere else .
Debbie as usual was very kind and told me that the person who was the guilty party who sent me that PM had been banned. They were on it right away. have to give them credit there. I almost felt as if I did something wrong. Other people told me how to fix it so that crap doesn't come to the home, but it left me very uneasy.

The forums there have become a battleground. I also have received the bad taste PMs. Not sure what can be done about it, they don't require a verifiable e-mail to sign up, so many people post and scoot. There is good breaking news there and some dedicated posters if one can survive the baiting. JMO.

[Spock]

So Who Drives to C&C, And who Sits Where?

No reason to lie about who was driving unless they were hiding something. Circling C&C several times makes me think they were waiting for a second car to catch up. There may have been more "pimps" at the party that night.

I agree. I believe they were waiting for Freddy, Koen, Sander & Jaime.

Freddy and Koen seem like good guesses. Freddy has admitted to being called by Joran and asked to drive Joran to C&C. Could be he met them there.

[Ono]

I think that Deepak in his statements want us to know that Natalee was in the car of her own free will. She had the chance to get out and he drove back to where her friends were to let her out. But they were gone. Once the car had been spotted by people who knew Natalee he knew if anything happened ( a rape charge ), his car was in the mix.
That car was a one of a kind on Aruba. Plenty of folks knew who the car belonged to , who the frequent passengers were and what kind of stuff they got up to.

Remember that very odd remark which came from Charles Croes in the Greta interview, where he says that he when he asks that group of kids parked at the beach who so & so was (he describes Deepak's car) and they reply: "Oh, that's Joran."  I still find that very curious that they associate Deepak's car with it being Joran...They must all know by then what the heck is going on with the car/Joran/tourists.  They don't say: "Oh, that's Deepak."  That's curious. It's as though Joran is the boss of the car and he has a hired driver.

[Kat_Gram]

Spock, thank you.
I agree it is a good blog and I have a tremendous amount of respect for the 99 % of the people who post there. I don't post there often, but I do read there as, like this blog, it is a good source of info.
And there are some good discussions by thinking people on both.
I wasn't horrified, but it was just the surprise of it. Considering it came from an inside ( although former ) source.

[Ono]

Why is it so important to establish who was driving and who was seated where? Why would this be something to lie about?

Would it have to do with premeditation? The driver is the "leader," he can say yea/or nay.

Are you referring to the game? Did the ALE know about the 20+ times and how it worked?

No, I meant he was the one in control of the car.  Joran can tell him what to do--drive here, drive there, but the final decision is the driver's.  He is the one who is steering the car.

Not if he has hired his car out to Joran for extra money. He's in Joran's employ for those nights. Love of money seems to be one of Deepak's obsessions.

[Bearlyhere]

quote="the big hammer"]So Who Drives to C&C, And who Sits Where?

No reason to lie about who was driving unless they were hiding something. Circling C&C several times makes me think they were waiting for a second car to catch up. There may have been more "pimps" at the party that night.

That could be Spock. Or they went somewhere to get them.
Listen, when I had wierd ears, I had surgery when I was 12.[/quote]

Or were they "convincing" her to go with them?  Did she yell out the window on the first pass or the second?

Whether or not she spoke to them could mean something, too.  Maybe the Kalpoes said she didn't say anything to them to make her look like a snob.  

...until Beth said Natalee thought she was going into a cab.

...at that point, they might want to start a lie that Natalee was talking to them so it would look like Natalee knew she wasn't climbing into a cab.

It's like a big game of chess.  Someone says something, then they make up a lie, then someone says something else, then they counter with another lie.  It does not seem to matter whether their lies contradict what they said earlier or contradict each other.

[Kat_Gram]

I think that Deepak in his statements want us to know that Natalee was in the car of her own free will. She had the chance to get out and he drove back to where her friends were to let her out. But they were gone. Once the car had been spotted by people who knew Natalee he knew if anything happened ( a rape charge ), his car was in the mix.
That car was a one of a kind on Aruba. Plenty of folks knew who the car belonged to , who the frequent passengers were and what kind of stuff they got up to.

Remember that very odd remark which came from Charles Croes in the Greta interview, where he says that he when he asks that group of kids parked at the beach who so & so was (he describes Deepak's car) and they reply: "Oh, that's Joran."  I still find that very curious that they associate Deepak's car with it being Joran...They must all know by then what the heck is going on with the car/Joran/tourists.  They don't say: "Oh, that's Deepak."  That's curious. It's as though Joran is the boss of the car and he has a hired driver.

I think that car, well, do you remember Helen Lejuez, she mentioned how well known that car was in regards to girls. That was just before Freddy was picked up and Deepak and Satish were rearrested.
It might be my imagination, but it seems as if several people like the ALE knew what was going on ( ie the 20 x before, C & C's ) way before Natalee got these but chose to look the other way.

[Ono]

Oh, Deepak was getting access to girls that a nerdy looking no social skills nothing going for him kinda guy could not do on his own. He doesn't seem to be a silver tounged devil when it comes to the ladies.

So true, but I think he was in whatever it was for the money. Pimps aren't in the pimp game for hugs and snuggles and to be popular...they do what they do for the CASH.  Maybe they enjoyed some sexual escapades because of Joran, but I think that money was their motivating elixir.

[Bearlyhere]

Why is it so important to establish who was driving and who was seated where? Why would this be something to lie about?

Would it have to do with premeditation? The driver is the "leader," he can say yea/or nay.

Are you referring to the game? Did the ALE know about the 20+ times and how it worked?

No, I meant he was the one in control of the car.  Joran can tell him what to do--drive here, drive there, but the final decision is the driver's.  He is the one who is steering the car.

Not if he has hired his car out to Joran for extra money. He's in Joran's employ for those nights. Love of money seems to be one of Deepak's obsessions.

I see what you mean.  

Joran does "pay" him.  He gets him in for free and buys his drinks, and who knows what else.

[mastiffs22]

Hi To Everyone, Just reading back a little and had some thoughts.  My kids would be shocked, they dont think I ever think!!!

If she is a citizen of the Netherlands, maybe she has very different ideas about sex and men.  I think that we have to keep in mind that different countries and different races have  very different views about sex. Remember, everyone is not as prudish as many of us Americans.  Even Canada which is only a skip and a hop for me has entirely different opinions about sex, relationships, etc.,  I just watched a documentary on the A&E chanel, all about pedophiles, and sex on the internet.  Shocking, yes.  Surprized, no.  As long as I dont get involved and my family doesn't get involved, I can just know that it is there and that it is disgusting to say the least.
Dont many tourists go to the Netherlands for the abundance of sex, and drugs, which is legal (?) in that country?  I believe that is pretty much what I have read.

Does Fionella, or whatever her name is, read here?  I bet she does.  As a matter of fact, I bet everyone of her friends at certain times read here.  She knows that she has been photographed and she probably loves the idea of seeing herself and Joran plastered all over the place.

[Ono]

I think that Deepak in his statements want us to know that Natalee was in the car of her own free will. She had the chance to get out and he drove back to where her friends were to let her out. But they were gone. Once the car had been spotted by people who knew Natalee he knew if anything happened ( a rape charge ), his car was in the mix.
That car was a one of a kind on Aruba. Plenty of folks knew who the car belonged to , who the frequent passengers were and what kind of stuff they got up to.

Remember that very odd remark which came from Charles Croes in the Greta interview, where he says that he when he asks that group of kids parked at the beach who so & so was (he describes Deepak's car) and they reply: "Oh, that's Joran."  I still find that very curious that they associate Deepak's car with it being Joran...They must all know by then what the heck is going on with the car/Joran/tourists.  They don't say: "Oh, that's Deepak."  That's curious. It's as though Joran is the boss of the car and he has a hired driver.

I think that car, well, do you remember Helen Lejuez, she mentioned how well known that car was in regards to girls. That was just before Freddy was picked up and Deepak and Satish were rearrested.
It might be my imagination, but it seems as if several people like the ALE knew what was going on ( ie the 20 x before, C & C's ) way before Natalee got these but chose to look the other way.

I remember Helen but I don't remember her saying that about the car, but that makes sense.  I think there are MANY on Aruba in the general population who know PLENTY but are afraid to come forward.  I really think there is much more to Deepak's car than "fun times."  It's a business expense, in my opinion. The Pimp Business.

[Kat_Gram]

Hopefully Mr. Deepak will get sick of seeing the Dutch Boy with the girls , going off to school in the Netherlands, being on TV, being in the paper singing karaoke with his new friends, wearing nice clothes while Deepak is stuck in a rock and a hard place with no where to go.
Deepak put himself there, but " that lie was for YOU "  meaning Joran certainly cost the Kalpoes.

[Lala'sMom]

Deepak June 11 statement:
To your question how Natalee was that night in “Carlos & Charlies”, I can say the following. She danced beautifully, I had lied in my previous statement about her being unsteady on her feet when she stepped off the podium/stage. That was beside the truth. She had a steady walk. According to my opinion she was reasonably with it.

Now, how did Deepak know he had to change this part of his story?  Who told him that Natalee had to be reasonably sober to have consented to anything bad that happened to her?  Where was Deepak on June 11?