Lively Case Discussion #514 8/19 - 8/21/2006

[LilPuma]

Reading the J2K statements reminded me that one of the MB kids reported seeing J2K in Deepak's car during the evening before C&Cs.  (I've looked for this statement but haven't found it yet.)  I also remember Nadira's first interview with Greta saying that Joran called Deepak because he needed a lift; Satish went to pick up Deepak and then they went to pick up Joran.  This is very different from the other statements that they all went home, did homework, cleaned the car, ate dinner.  I'm thinking that Satish was driving because he picked up Deepak, then they picked up Joran and maybe went somewhere, did something, they don't want anyone to know between 10:00 pm and 12:30 am.  So they changed the story and Paulus didn't hear Deepak's loud car at midnight because he wasn't even there.

Waving hi back to LilPuma!

Very interesting point.  If we can believe that Joran was picked up by his Father at 11pm at McDonalds, then the missing time would be shorter.  But it would be enough time to go cop some drugs for the evening.  

Whoa!  
So it's very important for them to cover that time.
And didn't PVS originally say he picked sonny up at 4am? Wasn't this said in the beginning, clearly, and then he suddenly changed it to 11p?

Yep, that's another part of this missing link.  If I can find some of the early statements on this, it could be something we've overlooked.  Or, I could be wrong!      I looked again earlier, but my puter crashed.  

[mastiffs22]

I wasn't horrified, but it was just the surprise of it. Considering it came from an inside ( although former ) source.

Kat_Gram, I know how shocked you must have been when that lewd stuff appeared on your screen.  Last weekend I was searching for childrens clothing called "rabbit skins".  Site after site, looking at colors and $$$$ and shipping.  At the click of a button, across my screen came the grossest, sickest animal, people sex stuff.  I tried to close it out, no luck.  I tried backing out, no luck......photo after photo......finally had DD come into room, had to finally shut the "puter off and start again.  What happens when a 7, 8, 10 or 12 year old is on line and is subjected to that filth?

[LilPuma]

I think that Deepak in his statements want us to know that Natalee was in the car of her own free will. She had the chance to get out and he drove back to where her friends were to let her out. But they were gone. Once the car had been spotted by people who knew Natalee he knew if anything happened ( a rape charge ), his car was in the mix.
That car was a one of a kind on Aruba. Plenty of folks knew who the car belonged to , who the frequent passengers were and what kind of stuff they got up to.

Remember that very odd remark which came from Charles Croes in the Greta interview, where he says that he when he asks that group of kids parked at the beach who so & so was (he describes Deepak's car) and they reply: "Oh, that's Joran."  I still find that very curious that they associate Deepak's car with it being Joran...They must all know by then what the heck is going on with the car/Joran/tourists.  They don't say: "Oh, that's Deepak."  That's curious. It's as though Joran is the boss of the car and he has a hired driver.

This could be that Joran is known by people on the island - white, tall, Dutch, son of a Judge - whereas Deepak doesn't stand out.  So they'd associate the car with the the guy they know.

[SunnyinTX]

Whoa!  
So it's very important for them to cover that time.
And didn't PVS originally say he picked sonny up at 4am? Wasn't this said in the beginning, clearly, and then he suddenly changed it to 11p?

Yep, that's another part of this missing link.  If I can find some of the early statements on this, it could be something we've overlooked.  Or, I could be wrong!      I looked again earlier, but my puter crashed.  

I think this is what is in Beth notes...she clearly wrote that he said 4AM...and then he changed his story.....but Beth took detained notes from the beginning...and she didn't make a mistake about the time

[Smish]

Quote from lilpuma:
Reading the J2K statements reminded me that one of the MB kids reported seeing J2K in Deepak's car during the evening before C&Cs. (I've looked for this statement but haven't found it yet.) I also remember Nadira's first interview with Greta saying that Joran called Deepak because he needed a lift; Satish went to pick up Deepak and then they went to pick up Joran. This is very different from the other statements that they all went home, did homework, cleaned the car, ate dinner. I'm thinking that Satish was driving because he picked up Deepak, then they picked up Joran and maybe went somewhere, did something, they don't want anyone to know between 10:00 pm and 12:30 am. So they changed the story and Paulus didn't hear Deepak's loud car at midnight because he wasn't even there.

Thank you so much!!  I was thinking about that as you typed it.  I would really like that transcript again to read.  There is most likely more truth in her statements than we realize.  Somone was lying to momma...

Nadira's interview with Greta....
NADIRA RAMIREZ, SATISH AND DEEPAK KALPOE'S MOTHER: They always come clean to me. You know, they are soft. They are not really scared of me, but I have them in line with everything. I have to know where they go, what time they come. You know, I keep controlling them, calling them, my cell always with me.

And then he start to tell me that, Mom, you know the girl that's missing. Maybe you guys read the paper and news and all those things. I said, Yes. And like, you know, I said, What do you know about this? And then he said that we give that girl a lift that night. So then I said, What, you know? Then he said, Don't be scared, Mom, that, We know we didn't do nothing. It's just a lift Joran asked us to give him and her, or something like that.
And I start to find out everything, and I said that, So what is it now? He said, Well, I think he went already to the police, or, like, investigation and those things, and maybe we will come over or ask you guys, and so, but we are telling you that it's just a lift. We don't know her at all.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know where your boys met up with Joran?

RAMIREZ: OK, I know that Deepak was working that day. And normally, he works, like, until 11: 30. Depends how busy is the place because it's one man running that place. If he's on that shift, he have to close.

VAN SUSTEREN: At the Internet cafe.

RAMIREZ: At the Internet cafe. So depends how if it's busy. If they paid down (ph) for some hours and they're not finished, then he just wait on them, like, it don't make any difference for 10 minutes on those things. So I assessed, like, maybe 11: 30. Maybe he's finished 11: 30. So I don't know. He told me that Joran called him and asked him that he need a lift.

VAN SUSTEREN: From the home to Carlos and Charlie's?

RAMIREZ: I don't know what he told him, but he just said that, Deepak I need a lift, if you can give me a lift or — and then maybe he asked him where or whatever. And why Satish is with him, because he don't go with his car to work. He love his car so much, that if it's a scratch, is a war (ph) in this house. And so he leave his car home. And like, his brother keep contacting him, What time you can pick me up, you know, like...

VAN SUSTEREN: Deepak?

RAMIREZ: Yes. Or he know his time, like, five to 11: 00 or 10 to 11: 00, something like that, he comes out. And then he sit and wait in the car for his brother.

VAN SUSTEREN: So Deepak doesn't have the car at work. He needs a ride from Satish?

RAMIREZ: No, it's his car.

VAN SUSTEREN: But — but Satish...

RAMIREZ: He don't go with his car to work. Satish drop him and bring back his car home.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So Satish is at home with Deepak's car and goes to pick up...

RAMIREZ: Pick him up every night, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK.

RAMIREZ: So he went there automatically. Maybe his brother said that, yes, Joran asked me for a lift, or tat-tat-tat. I don't know. And then that's why the two were together to go.

VAN SUSTEREN: So in all likelihood, we don't know for sure, but they probably picked him up at his home and then went back to Carlos and Charlie's?

RAMIREZ: I don't know where they reach each other. He just said that he asked us a lift. So I don't know if they go home and pick him up or they go to Carlos and Charlie's. Those really small things I can't say exact what is it.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did Satish and/or Deepak say about Natalee Holloway? What did they say about her? What do they remember?

RAMIREZ: What you really mean, while she was in Aruba or what she said or...

VAN SUSTEREN: Anything. What do they know about her, or what do they remember from that night?

RAMIREZ: They don't know nothing about her. Only they know that she was with Joran, and he ask him a lift to bring her down by the hotel, that she have to drop her off, and seeing (ph) that Joran is with them, and he said, OK, it's fine. What he said when she went in the car, did her friends call her or something. And he said, I stopped my car, that if she want to go, it's fine. It's not that, yes, we forced her, or not we, she was with Joran. My son said that she didn't even introduce herself to them, like, hi, I'm Natalee or whatever. She didn't talk a word with my two sons.

And she was more like friend with Joran. My two sons were in front. Deepak was driving, the next one other side, and Joran was at the back with her. And he didn't say anything. I mean, he's a boy. I mean, if he have her like a girlfriend, he didn't interrupt. He just drive up, and then...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160562,00.html

[mastiffs22]

I am in Canada and I don't think it is that much different.
Maybe it depends on your cultural background. And age and upbringing. There are so many different nationalities here that it is difficult to define Canadian and what we think.

Kat_Gram;;;;;I mean no harm with my statement......my maternal side are all from Canada!!!  I am a Canuck by birth!!!!  Sunday School, ahhh!!!  such wonderous memories. *&^%%$%%%^  Wife says" Not tonight honey, I have a headache.  Mastiff said" Not ttoday Mommy, I have a headache.  I had nuns teaching, did you?  Sorry I am off topic.

[LilPuma]

Why is it so important to establish who was driving and who was seated where? Why would this be something to lie about?

Because their stories don't match.

[JuJu]

I thought it had been established that the younger VDS boys were AVS in the NTLs on the 30th.  According to the statement made by PVS they were home, what's the deal?

[LilPuma]

Quote from lilpuma:
Reading the J2K statements reminded me that one of the MB kids reported seeing J2K in Deepak's car during the evening before C&Cs. (I've looked for this statement but haven't found it yet.) I also remember Nadira's first interview with Greta saying that Joran called Deepak because he needed a lift; Satish went to pick up Deepak and then they went to pick up Joran. This is very different from the other statements that they all went home, did homework, cleaned the car, ate dinner. I'm thinking that Satish was driving because he picked up Deepak, then they picked up Joran and maybe went somewhere, did something, they don't want anyone to know between 10:00 pm and 12:30 am. So they changed the story and Paulus didn't hear Deepak's loud car at midnight because he wasn't even there.

Thank you so much!!  I was thinking about that as you typed it.  I would really like that transcript again to read.  There is most likely more truth in her statements than we realize.  Somone was lying to momma...

Nadira's interview with Greta....
NADIRA RAMIREZ, SATISH AND DEEPAK KALPOE'S MOTHER: They always come clean to me. You know, they are soft. They are not really scared of me, but I have them in line with everything. I have to know where they go, what time they come. You know, I keep controlling them, calling them, my cell always with me.

And then he start to tell me that, Mom, you know the girl that's missing. Maybe you guys read the paper and news and all those things. I said, Yes. And like, you know, I said, What do you know about this? And then he said that we give that girl a lift that night. So then I said, What, you know? Then he said, Don't be scared, Mom, that, We know we didn't do nothing. It's just a lift Joran asked us to give him and her, or something like that.
And I start to find out everything, and I said that, So what is it now? He said, Well, I think he went already to the police, or, like, investigation and those things, and maybe we will come over or ask you guys, and so, but we are telling you that it's just a lift. We don't know her at all.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know where your boys met up with Joran?

RAMIREZ: OK, I know that Deepak was working that day. And normally, he works, like, until 11: 30. Depends how busy is the place because it's one man running that place. If he's on that shift, he have to close.

VAN SUSTEREN: At the Internet cafe.

RAMIREZ: At the Internet cafe. So depends how if it's busy. If they paid down (ph) for some hours and they're not finished, then he just wait on them, like, it don't make any difference for 10 minutes on those things. So I assessed, like, maybe 11: 30. Maybe he's finished 11: 30. So I don't know. He told me that Joran called him and asked him that he need a lift.

VAN SUSTEREN: From the home to Carlos and Charlie's?

RAMIREZ: I don't know what he told him, but he just said that, Deepak I need a lift, if you can give me a lift or — and then maybe he asked him where or whatever. And why Satish is with him, because he don't go with his car to work. He love his car so much, that if it's a scratch, is a war (ph) in this house. And so he leave his car home. And like, his brother keep contacting him, What time you can pick me up, you know, like...

VAN SUSTEREN: Deepak?

RAMIREZ: Yes. Or he know his time, like, five to 11: 00 or 10 to 11: 00, something like that, he comes out. And then he sit and wait in the car for his brother.

VAN SUSTEREN: So Deepak doesn't have the car at work. He needs a ride from Satish?

RAMIREZ: No, it's his car.

VAN SUSTEREN: But — but Satish...

RAMIREZ: He don't go with his car to work. Satish drop him and bring back his car home.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So Satish is at home with Deepak's car and goes to pick up...

RAMIREZ: Pick him up every night, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK.

RAMIREZ: So he went there automatically. Maybe his brother said that, yes, Joran asked me for a lift, or tat-tat-tat. I don't know. And then that's why the two were together to go.

VAN SUSTEREN: So in all likelihood, we don't know for sure, but they probably picked him up at his home and then went back to Carlos and Charlie's?

RAMIREZ: I don't know where they reach each other. He just said that he asked us a lift. So I don't know if they go home and pick him up or they go to Carlos and Charlie's. Those really small things I can't say exact what is it.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did Satish and/or Deepak say about Natalee Holloway? What did they say about her? What do they remember?

RAMIREZ: What you really mean, while she was in Aruba or what she said or...

VAN SUSTEREN: Anything. What do they know about her, or what do they remember from that night?

RAMIREZ: They don't know nothing about her. Only they know that she was with Joran, and he ask him a lift to bring her down by the hotel, that she have to drop her off, and seeing (ph) that Joran is with them, and he said, OK, it's fine. What he said when she went in the car, did her friends call her or something. And he said, I stopped my car, that if she want to go, it's fine. It's not that, yes, we forced her, or not we, she was with Joran. My son said that she didn't even introduce herself to them, like, hi, I'm Natalee or whatever. She didn't talk a word with my two sons.

And she was more like friend with Joran. My two sons were in front. Deepak was driving, the next one other side, and Joran was at the back with her. And he didn't say anything. I mean, he's a boy. I mean, if he have her like a girlfriend, he didn't interrupt. He just drive up, and then...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160562,00.html

SMISH ROCKS!  I thought the cafe closed earlier on Sunday, like 10ish, but thanks for the transcript.    Nadira can't confirm whether or not they went home after Deepak got off work or if they picked up Joran somewhere.  For a long time, I thought Satish was only with them because he picked up Deepak - which isn't true if they went home first.  Then there's the 4 am/11 pm discrepancy.  Hmmmmmm

[Sue]

I wasn't horrified, but it was just the surprise of it. Considering it came from an inside ( although former ) source.

Kat_Gram, I know how shocked you must have been when that lewd stuff appeared on your screen.  Last weekend I was searching for childrens clothing called "rabbit skins".  Site after site, looking at colors and $$$$ and shipping.  At the click of a button, across my screen came the grossest, sickest animal, people sex stuff.  I tried to close it out, no luck.  I tried backing out, no luck......photo after photo......finally had DD come into room, had to finally shut the "puter off and start again.  What happens when a 7, 8, 10 or 12 year old is on line and is subjected to that filth?

Press CLEAR/ALT/ DELETE     as soon as possible keep pressing until he boots you out of that

[sharon]

Gosh Lala'sMom -- you're on and I need to run

I saw a Shango post today -- (paraphrase) many Arawaks have dirtyhands.

All one word (if you've noticed, he writes it several different ways and I think they have different meanings).

I think that refers to the group of Arubans who are 'on the take'. This is in the area recently posted about -- 'the father can sing any song'....

Dirtyhands like drugrunners or girlsnatchers.

Bearlyhere. I always found it interesting that Shango referred to "Dirty Hand" in different ways. And he r efers to them as different types -- Arawaks, Babylonians, etc. I think he is referring to more than one.

I think VanderStraaten is definitely intended as one. I think Oduber is represented by another 'spelling'.

Your thoughts on dirtyhands are just as possible as anything else.
My first thought was dirtyhands take in dirty money and return clean money

I caught an interesting show a few weeks ago -- the president and creator of Marvel comics was on (in the event you don't know, Marvel is where all the cute names that Shango uses are from - dice men, rave, house of rave, etc).

He was introducing a new comic 'series'. But he said that all of his characters, including super heroes, were based on real political figures. And the story lines were based on real political situations.

I thought that was an interesting comment. That Marvel is political in nature.

.

[terryd270]

Sharon and Klaasend,

Miami has a big Dutch population and lots of important people are part of this club..  http://www.dutchclub.com/   Its located in Miami and I wonder if you look at the pictures if you will recognized some of the families from Aruba...

[Smish]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160562,00.html[/quote]

SMISH ROCKS!  I thought the cafe closed earlier on Sunday, like 10ish, but thanks for the transcript.    Nadira can't confirm whether or not they went home after Deepak got off work or if they picked up Joran somewhere.  For a long time, I thought Satish was only with them because he picked up Deepak - which isn't true if they went home first.  Then there's the 4 am/11 pm discrepancy.  Hmmmmmm[/quote]

LOL...{{{LilPuma}}}
I think from earlier pics of the internet cafe,a sign in the window said closed sunday nights at 10pm.
I remember in one of Joran's interviews he seemed a little surprised that Deepak brought Satish with him that night.I got the impression then that Joran didn't know Satish  that well.
Beth said Paulus had said he picked THEM up at 4am that next early moring.Then when Greta and Beth did that little mini interview with the van der Sloot's(after Paulus finally came out of hiding behind those bushes)Beth said in the interview that Paulus claimed he picked Joran up at McDonalds at 11pm that night.I could be wrong on some of this.

[friend of monkeys]

Just as how does the Chief of Police Dompig afford a Mercedes SL 500.?  the only one on the island?[/quote]



ummmmmmmm......drug profits....like aruba mafia u know?
He got his sticky fingers in everbodys cookie jar.

[Leslie]

Lots of overtime pay.

[klaasend]

Sharon and Klaasend,

Miami has a big Dutch population and lots of important people are part of this club..  http://www.dutchclub.com/   Its located in Miami and I wonder if you look at the pictures if you will recognized some of the families from Aruba...

Terryd- I looked through several of the photo albums and didn't recognize anyone.  Sorry.

[terryd270]

I didn't either but I thought I would throw it out there.. I know that they do come here a lot and I was thinking that the Dutch club would be a social event that they might go to..

[klaasend]

I didn't either but I thought I would throw it out there.. I know that they do come here a lot and I was thinking that the Dutch club would be a social event that they might go to..

I'm wondering if they ever show up at Ernesto's club?

[terryd270]

Klaasend,

I was never one to go to the clubs on South Beach but I assume that everything goes in some of the clubs there..  Long waits and only if you know the right people can you get in.. Lot of the clubs are very sexual in nature and I guess I kinda like the bars that have peanuts shell on the floor.. I was at a wine tasting in Boca Raton at Boca Resort and had some lady asked if I would suck her toes if she put some grapes between them.. This scared me and this would of been mild to what I heard goes on in South Beach.. Nope I didn't take her up on it, I just laughed and ran away..  I heard that Jossie grandchild is going to college in Boca Raton.  I wonder if its Lynn University, very expensive.. If its Florida Atlantic, then its a state college..

[klaasend]

Klaasend,

I was never one to go to the clubs on South Beach but I assume that everything goes in some of the clubs there..  Long waits and only if you know the right people can you get in.. Lot of the clubs are very sexual in nature and I guess I kinda like the bars that have peanuts shell on the floor.. I was at a wine tasting in Boca Raton at Boca Resort and had some lady asked if I would suck her toes if she put some grapes between them.. This scared me and this would of been mild to what I heard goes on in South Beach.. Nope I didn't take her up on it, I just laughed and ran away..  I heard that Jossie grandchild is going to college in Boca Raton.  I wonder if its Lynn University, very expensive.. If its Florida Atlantic, then its a state college..

Terry - maybe you could check out the Mynt Lounge for us    Maybe Freddy is there working as a bartender now..ha ha