Lively Case Discussion #514 8/19 - 8/21/2006

[blah]

Joran June 11:
To your question whether I have a friend who has a boat, I answer you that the father of Koen has a boat. The father of Koen has a speedboat. I do not know the name of this boat but it is at Koen's house. I have never gone out on the speedboat owned by Koen's father. I get seasick and that is why I don't often go on boats. Koen has no boat-permit/license but I assume he is able to drive the boat. [/b]

So Joran gets seasick. Guess I missed that tidbit also.  Yet, Koen can drive the boat.  Okay, Joran has known Koen for about 10 years and in all this time and with the family being such good friends Joran has never, ever been on the speedboat??  In all of 10 years?  Why do I doubt that? Shaking my head in disbelief.

Yea. But he said he doesn't "often" go out on boats and throws the little fact about Koen not having a license.   Seems to me that the LIES he wants believed are the ones he adds the most detail to.  Why say the seasick part unless you want people to believe you WON'T go out on boats?  Why say the license part unless you want people to believe he WOULD'NT take the boat out.  He assumes Koen can drive the boat because he's been on it before.

so they want us to believe that no one would drive a boat without a license. ( i doubt it is even necessary to have a license but anyhow...)

Yet they drive cars without a license, drink under age, gamble under age, go out all night during school nights, steal money from their parents, steal brothers cell phone, kill the family dog, lie to police but no way in hell would they ever drive a boat without a license

 

[mrs. red]

Joran June 11:
To your question whether I have a friend who has a boat, I answer you that the father of Koen has a boat. The father of Koen has a speedboat. I do not know the name of this boat but it is at Koen's house. I have never gone out on the speedboat owned by Koen's father. I get seasick and that is why I don't often go on boats. Koen has no boat-permit/license but I assume he is able to drive the boat. [/b]

So Joran gets seasick. Guess I missed that tidbit also.  Yet, Koen can drive the boat.  Okay, Joran has known Koen for about 10 years and in all this time and with the family being such good friends Joran has never, ever been on the speedboat??  In all of 10 years?  Why do I doubt that? Shaking my head in disbelief.

Yea. But he said he doesn't "often" go out on boats and throws the little fact about Koen not having a license.   Seems to me that the LIES he wants believed are the ones he adds the most detail to.  Why say the seasick part unless you want people to believe you WON'T go out on boats?  Why say the license part unless you want people to believe he WOULD'NT take the boat out.  He assumes Koen can drive the boat because he's been on it before.

so they want us to believe that no one would drive a boat without a license. ( i doubt it is even necessary to have a license but anyhow...)

Yet they drive cars without a license, drink under age, gamble under age, go out all night during school nights, steal money from their parents, steal brothers cell phone, kill the family dog, lie to police but no way in hell would they ever drive a boat without a license

 

or have sex without a condom.....

[blah]

Joran June 11:
To your question whether I have a friend who has a boat, I answer you that the father of Koen has a boat. The father of Koen has a speedboat. I do not know the name of this boat but it is at Koen's house. I have never gone out on the speedboat owned by Koen's father. I get seasick and that is why I don't often go on boats. Koen has no boat-permit/license but I assume he is able to drive the boat. [/b]

So Joran gets seasick. Guess I missed that tidbit also.  Yet, Koen can drive the boat.  Okay, Joran has known Koen for about 10 years and in all this time and with the family being such good friends Joran has never, ever been on the speedboat??  In all of 10 years?  Why do I doubt that? Shaking my head in disbelief.

Yea. But he said he doesn't "often" go out on boats and throws the little fact about Koen not having a license.   Seems to me that the LIES he wants believed are the ones he adds the most detail to.  Why say the seasick part unless you want people to believe you WON'T go out on boats?  Why say the license part unless you want people to believe he WOULD'NT take the boat out.  He assumes Koen can drive the boat because he's been on it before.

so they want us to believe that no one would drive a boat without a license. ( i doubt it is even necessary to have a license but anyhow...)

Yet they drive cars without a license, drink under age, gamble under age, go out all night during school nights, steal money from their parents, steal brothers cell phone, kill the family dog, lie to police but no way in hell would they ever drive a boat without a license

 

or have sex without a condom.....

but he'll go out with a broad that screws animals....

[San]

so they want us to believe that no one would drive a boat without a license. ( i doubt it is even necessary to have a license but anyhow...)

Yet they drive cars without a license, drink under age, gamble under age, go out all night during school nights, steal money from their parents, steal brothers cell phone, kill the family dog, lie to police but no way in hell would they ever drive a boat without a license

 

But according to Joran when he spoke to Greta he made it a point to say he doesn't drive

[KatzHome]

Hiya Katz!!!!!

Hi Kimmy {{{hugs}}}  How are you?

[KatzHome]

Are we leaning more in the direction that it was Koen, instead of Lorenzo, who took Natalee's body out into the ocean?

Have any of the investigators who are working with Beth and Dave spoken about this?

Dave himself has asked time and again why they didn't question Koen sooner?  I think Dave is the one that asked ALE to check into the boat scenario...

I do know that, Mrs. Red...  but I also know that's not the only boat available to them...

[Lala'sMom]

Deepak June 11:
"I am now willing to make a statement that is in accordance with the truth. Several details were missing from my last statement. I am going to tell you exactly what happened that night. On Sunday May 29th 2005 at approximately 21:50 hours, I was called by my friend Joran. He said that he was in the vicinity of the Mc. Donalds on Palm Beach and that he was waiting for his father. He further told me that he had met girls in the casino and that these girls would be going to "Carlos & Charlie's" and whether I wanted to go with him. I said that it was OK/fine and that I would pick him up after I went home at his place. I was picked up by my brother Satïsh at the place where I work. We then went to the "Taco Bell" situated in Santa Cruz. There we bought something to eat and then we drove home. On the way home I was bitten by ants in my car. I had told my brother that when we got back home, we should clean the car because if there were going to be girls in the car they would be bitten by ants too.
Joran June 9:
At my father's request I sat in for him and played "Texas Hold'm poker. I am not sure as to when half time was but I think it was between 19.00 and 20.00 hours. I kept on gambling until I lost too. This was according to me until 21.30 to 22.00 hours. I went to walk around in the casino and after that went to the "Blackjack" table to play
blackjack.

Maybe Joran has a doppleganger.  You know, he can be in two places at once.  Do I have this wrong?  He was at the McDonald's waiting for his father and called Deepak, but he was also playing at the blackjack table?  Let's see here, we have video of one of these...who's lying?

[Kimmy53]

Hiya Katz!!!!!

Hi Kimmy {{{hugs}}}  How are you?

at the moment I am about to starve!!!  I think my stomach is turning inside out.  I guess a pack of crackers and drink aren't much of a balanced meal.

Good to see you.  I hope you are well.

[Ono]

Dr. Phil Show transcript: (sorry, don't have the date)
Angelina's words:

(SNIP)

"He was working that night. Sunday night," she says. "And he never goes out on a Sunday night. Deepak was supposed to go home. His brother has to pick him up at 11:00 ...   (SNIP)

.............

Deepak never goes out on a Sunday night?
He was supposed to go home?
His brother has to pick him up at 11:00?

Maybe it's a language thing, but, in my mind, this conjures up that rumor about a Kalpoe being in some kind of trouble. Was Deepak on some kind of probation? DUI perhaps, where maybe a girl was killed or injured? Was Deepak the one in trouble and not Satish?

Did someone "fix" all of that for him? Perhaps something like, "You say you were driving and we'll make make sure there is no record of your previous indiscretions"?  

It may not be significant, but Angelilna's words jumped out at me.

That's what I thought when he made such a rediculous fuss about not wearing his seatbelt when he spied the police...he freaked. So silly using a seatbelt excuse, as that can be corrected instantly.

[Lala'sMom]

Are we leaning more in the direction that it was Koen, instead of Lorenzo, who took Natalee's body out into the ocean?

Have any of the investigators who are working with Beth and Dave spoken about this?

Dave himself has asked time and again why they didn't question Koen sooner?  I think Dave is the one that asked ALE to check into the boat scenario...

I do know that, Mrs. Red...  but I also know that's not the only boat available to them...

I am not sure about whose boat was used or if in fact a boat even comes into play here.  Just throwing things out there to think about. We may get a bingo moment if we think all this through again. Hi Katz, hope you are well.

[thirdstrike]

The question I'd have is...

He makes it a point it seems to advise of things he hasn't done...because he isn't "permitted to" (don't drive because he doesn't have a license.  Doesn't ride on boats, because he's seasikc, etc.)  But, one thing has seemed to escape his explanations.  And, that is...why would he worry about driving without a license when he freely gambles and drinks while (at that time) being underage?  And, why don't the police seem to be very interested in this fact??

[blah]

Deepak June 11:
"I am now willing to make a statement that is in accordance with the truth. Several details were missing from my last statement. I am going to tell you exactly what happened that night. On Sunday May 29th 2005 at approximately 21:50 hours, I was called by my friend Joran. He said that he was in the vicinity of the Mc. Donalds on Palm Beach and that he was waiting for his father. He further told me that he had met girls in the casino and that these girls would be going to "Carlos & Charlie's" and whether I wanted to go with him. I said that it was OK/fine and that I would pick him up after I went home at his place. I was picked up by my brother Satïsh at the place where I work. We then went to the "Taco Bell" situated in Santa Cruz. There we bought something to eat and then we drove home. On the way home I was bitten by ants in my car. I had told my brother that when we got back home, we should clean the car because if there were going to be girls in the car they would be bitten by ants too.
Joran June 9:
At my father's request I sat in for him and played "Texas Hold'm poker. I am not sure as to when half time was but I think it was between 19.00 and 20.00 hours. I kept on gambling until I lost too. This was according to me until 21.30 to 22.00 hours. I went to walk around in the casino and after that went to the "Blackjack" table to play
blackjack.

Maybe Joran has a doppleganger.  You know, he can be in two places at once.  Do I have this wrong?  He was at the McDonald's waiting for his father and called Deepak, but he was also playing at the blackjack table?  Let's see here, we have video of one of these...who's lying?

VERY good catch !!!

[KatzHome]

Hiya Katz!!!!!

Hi Kimmy {{{hugs}}}  How are you?

at the moment I am about to starve!!!  I think my stomach is turning inside out.  I guess a pack of crackers and drink aren't much of a balanced meal.

Good to see you.  I hope you are well.

No, Kimmy ~ "wet and dry" is not considered a balanced meal....  

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

JORAN/SATISH FACE TO FACE MEETING 06/18/2005

www.scaredmonkeys.com


Also posted in the Important Case Documents thread

[Lala'sMom]

so they want us to believe that no one would drive a boat without a license. ( i doubt it is even necessary to have a license but anyhow...)

Yet they drive cars without a license, drink under age, gamble under age, go out all night during school nights, steal money from their parents, steal brothers cell phone, kill the family dog, lie to police but no way in hell would they ever drive a boat without a license

 

But according to Joran when he spoke to Greta he made it a point to say he doesn't drive

Transcript from Dr. Phil:
"Well, when I hear them speaking of they're trying to decide whether Natalee has been raped or kidnapped,” Beth says “I have read, I've had translated to me Joran van der Sloot's statements. And one of his statements that I found was huge, and this was the one that he gave on June 13 at 8:30 in the morning, and he now states that this is the truth, quote, this is Joran saying 'Now here's the truth."
Beth continues with Joran's testimony. "Now I want to tell you the truth. I drove Natalee — We drove Natalee to my home at 1:40am. I want her to come in. I have sex with her. Next’ — and remember in all his statements she's coming in and out of consciousness — next he says that then he took her to the beach, he took her to the Fisherman's Hut. And then he calls Deepak at 3:30 a.m. to come pick him up from the Fisherman's Hut. Deepak comes. And Deepak says ‘Don't f**k with the b**ch. Let's go.’ Every statement that he gives, like I said, so sexually explicit and graphically detailed of what he does to her. It just is amazing to me that he can even admit to having sex with her. And that's not a crime?"

How did he get from his house to the fisherman's huts??  He obviously did not drive if he called Deepak to come get him.  If any of this is remotely true, Joran drove her body there and buried it temporarily.  He clearly places Deepak out of the picture here...so who else could have driven him?  Who else was with him?

[KatzHome]

Are we leaning more in the direction that it was Koen, instead of Lorenzo, who took Natalee's body out into the ocean?

Have any of the investigators who are working with Beth and Dave spoken about this?

Dave himself has asked time and again why they didn't question Koen sooner?  I think Dave is the one that asked ALE to check into the boat scenario...

I do know that, Mrs. Red...  but I also know that's not the only boat available to them...

I am not sure about whose boat was used or if in fact a boat even comes into play here.  Just throwing things out there to think about. We may get a bingo moment if we think all this through again. Hi Katz, hope you are well.

Oh I know, Lalas...  I just was wondering if any of the investigators on Dana's show touched upon the subject...  Might be a good future question to ask them ~ in email to Dana perhaps...  the safest way to ask that question, I think...

[Ono]

Good points, Lala's.

Speaking of back to square one, I seem to be always looking back to what was happening a year ago...

Aruba Police Search for Man Who Anonymously Gave Tip; A midnight jogger
August 19, 2005
According to the AP, the Aruban authorities are searching for a late night jogger who may have information into the case of Natalee Holloway’s disappearance.

Here we are a year later and I'm still wondering what that jogger saw ....

I would bet that jogger is either no longer on Aruba or very wealthy.

Or realized what is going on and that he/she could be threatened or arrested while they are on the island and decided to give his/her statement to police in the U.S.  Just thinking a little.

Or...is no longer "in the land of the living".....

[KatzHome]

The question I'd have is...

He makes it a point it seems to advise of things he hasn't done...because he isn't "permitted to" (don't drive because he doesn't have a license.  Doesn't ride on boats, because he's seasikc, etc.)  But, one thing has seemed to escape his explanations.  And, that is...why would he worry about driving without a license when he freely gambles and drinks while (at that time) being underage?  And, why don't the police seem to be very interested in this fact??

And I guess the reason he's lying down on those pink mats on the boat is because he's seasick    

Hi Strike

[Ono]

Everyone has gone to bed, I shall, too. BUT first, I want to post this picture of that "simpleton looking" friend of Steve Croes, Jerry.

The picture says it all about the crass, depraved mentality of da Pimps....

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/nomad_10/normal_Sat_Nite_281529.jpg

{{edit - let's compromise and just post the link   }}


Klaas...I hope it is OK I posted this picture.  If it isn't, please accept my apologies, and remove it.

Nite Everyone!

My guess is that he is related to Croes (brother maybe ?) and is +++++++..he doesn't look 'right'..

[San]

Transcript from Dr. Phil:
"Well, when I hear them speaking of they're trying to decide whether Natalee has been raped or kidnapped,” Beth says “I have read, I've had translated to me Joran van der Sloot's statements. And one of his statements that I found was huge, and this was the one that he gave on June 13 at 8:30 in the morning, and he now states that this is the truth, quote, this is Joran saying 'Now here's the truth."
Beth continues with Joran's testimony. "Now I want to tell you the truth. I drove Natalee — We drove Natalee to my home at 1:40am. I want her to come in. I have sex with her. Next’ — and remember in all his statements she's coming in and out of consciousness — next he says that then he took her to the beach, he took her to the Fisherman's Hut. And then he calls Deepak at 3:30 a.m. to come pick him up from the Fisherman's Hut. Deepak comes. And Deepak says ‘Don't f**k with the b**ch. Let's go.’ Every statement that he gives, like I said, so sexually explicit and graphically detailed of what he does to her. It just is amazing to me that he can even admit to having sex with her. And that's not a crime?"

How did he get from his house to the fisherman's huts??  He obviously did not drive if he called Deepak to come get him.  If any of this is remotely true, Joran drove her body there and buried it temporarily.  He clearly places Deepak out of the picture here...so who else could have driven him?  Who else was with him?

Paulus is with him.