Lively Case Discussion #514 8/19 - 8/21/2006

[klaasend]

[ldstlou]

ok...little more!! lol...no coincidences!! Why did the fact that they had to clean up the car come up so much? Why the blood and then the cleaning fluis..thus the cover up? Why references to car dealership. I have always been convinced the car was the crime scene..it was their MO!!! Thus all the refernces to the cars and all that had happened in them. Come on..it was a portable hotel for them including porn videos!! They watched the big boys play...and then repeated what they saw in their cars!! Too many refernces to sex in the cars!! frigging porn videos set up!!! This is where they operated!!!

[ldstlou]

Can we explore my theory tonight and at least either eliminate it or see if it is a possibility. Just think getting into the heads of these little creeps and how they think and operate is what is going to give us the answers...just like a profiler!!

[klaasend]

Can we explore my theory tonight and at least either eliminate it or see if it is a possibility. Just think getting into the heads of these little creeps and how they think and operate is what is going to give us the answers...just like a profiler!!

Sure...I have some work to do durring the day today but tonight sounds good!  Remind us!!

[KatzHome]

Can we explore my theory tonight and at least either eliminate it or see if it is a possibility. Just think getting into the heads of these little creeps and how they think and operate is what is going to give us the answers...just like a profiler!!

So far ~ sounds like a plan to me, ldstlou...  I really should be spending the day cleaning...

And when I need a rest and sit down at the computer ~ I have one more graphic that I want to finish before tomorrow...  And I want to send None a card...  I think maybe even from here  http://www.marian.org/directory_flash.html

If they don't send out email Mass cards ~ I can send the card...  and just call them to make arrangements for them to include her husband in their Masses and to light a candle at the shrine for him...  I think she'd like that...

[ldstlou]

The girl said at some point something about “Sharks” and “Lighthouse”. That is what I had heard. Joran then said “Lighthouse”. I knew at that moment that I had to drive to the “Lighthouse”. I rolled up the windows and put the airconditioning on and drove in the direction of the “Lighthouse”.

On the way to the "Lighthouse" me and my brother sat in front and talked and Joran and the girl were in the back and talked. I could not hear what they were talking about. At approximately where the “La Cabana Hotel” was, Satish popped in a DVD that had nude scenes in it. The girl said in English “Oh my God, whats that” (loosely translated by reporting officer: Oh my God, What is that). I then said to Joran in English: “Now she is going to think that we're perverts (loosely translated by reporting officer: Now the girls is going to think we are perverts). After a while Joran said to Satish in Dutch. “Switch off the DVD, she has had enough of it. Satish complied with the request. I had been driving on, in the direction of Arashi. When I arrived at Arashi I stopped the car on the asphalted section. I got out because I had to take a pee. Then I got back in again and we drove in the direction of the “Lighthouse”. Arriving at the "Lighthouse" I drove into the road and drove past the front of the restaurant. When we drove past the front I said, here we are this is the “Lighthouse”. Nobody answered me. At some point I looked into the rear view mirror and saw that Joran and the girl were French kissing. I had not seen that Joran had his hand up the girls skirt. I only saw him kissing. I looked at my brother Satish. He said keep on driving. After that I continued in the direction from which we just came. I saw a little farther up at about where the Lighthouse was a green jeep and a four door, white car. After that I drove down the road towards Arashi. Arriving at the Smith Boulevard on the section of road that has no lighting, I asked Joran if I should head back to town. Joran said no, no, let me out here. That was in the vicinity of the “Marriot Hotel”. I asked, where is here. He said here. I turned into a side street. To your question as to what kind of a road it was, I can say the following. I am not sure if it was a sand/dirt road or a paved road. I am willing to show you where the street is that I just mentioned.

As to your question how far I drove into the afore mentioned street, I can say the following, I think I drove about 55 yards into that street. Joran said that I should let him out there. After that I brought my car to a full stop. Joran got out first and then the girl. He said: Fine, I will see you tomorrow. I asked him how he would get home. He said that he would find a way to get home. I said, and the girl. He answered, I will drop her off at the “Holiday Inn Hotel”, we will walk along the beach and it is very close by. I had asked him, sure. He answered yes, I will see you tomorrow. I do remember that I saw them walking off hand in hand. I drove out of the street to get back onto the road and proceeded driving into the direction of my house. I do remember that in front of the “Marriot Hotel” Satish asked me to stop momentarily. I did what he asked me, Satish rolled down his window and threw out the two “Yards”. After that we drove until we got to the roundabout near “Texaco Sasakr”. At the roundabout I headed due east in the direction of my house at Hooiberg.
To your question as to how late we got home, I can say the following. We arrived home approximately 02.20 hours.

[mrs. red]

ok...little more!! lol...no coincidences!! Why did the fact that they had to clean up the car come up so much? Why the blood and then the cleaning fluis..thus the cover up? Why references to car dealership. I have always been convinced the car was the crime scene..it was their MO!!! Thus all the refernces to the cars and all that had happened in them. Come on..it was a portable hotel for them including porn videos!! They watched the big boys play...and then repeated what they saw in their cars!! Too many refernces to sex in the cars!! frigging porn videos set up!!! This is where they operated!!!

This is where AzLady and Wreck's theory of a gun being involved comes into play for me... why on earth would they have brought up satish's gun... and it would explain the headliner..(not to be graphic) and we all know that they liked the "backseat".. not only for the site but because they mentioned it... so that would fit a theroy of them trying to emulate their elders....

[ldstlou]

oops...above are the refernces I found to Deepak and lighthouse...in my opinion..lots and lots of detail!! NONE from Joran!! WHY???!!! Think in terms of psychology..it says alot!! Joran hiding the whole scenario. WHY??? And refernces to girl "passed out" on beach...think this is where it happened!! Gotta get some work done too. Hope we can discuss tonight!! If this is the case...makes so much sense why they covered up the rocks!! Gotta STILL be SOME forensic evidence there!! SOMETHING!!!

[ldstlou]

ok...little more!! lol...no coincidences!! Why did the fact that they had to clean up the car come up so much? Why the blood and then the cleaning fluis..thus the cover up? Why references to car dealership. I have always been convinced the car was the crime scene..it was their MO!!! Thus all the refernces to the cars and all that had happened in them. Come on..it was a portable hotel for them including porn videos!! They watched the big boys play...and then repeated what they saw in their cars!! Too many refernces to sex in the cars!! frigging porn videos set up!!! This is where they operated!!!

This is where AzLady and Wreck's theory of a gun being involved comes into play for me... why on earth would they have brought up satish's gun... and it would explain the headliner..(not to be graphic) and we all know that they liked the "backseat".. not only for the site but because they mentioned it... so that would fit a theroy of them trying to emulate their elders....

Let's put our minds together tonight w/ all the new info and see if it fits. AND if Beth was correct and there is a statement by Joran saying he had sex w/ Natalee in his own home...I think it supports my theory even more!! He KNEW no forensic evidence would be found in his house...so he felt safe with this story!! Anything to keep the search AWAY from the lighthouse!! Ok to bring up fisherman's huts...where she was briefly buried..because he could blame it on Deepak and Satish by saying he left her ok...and they went back and did the dirty deed. My psychology classes are coming back to me!! lol

[mishy]

ok...little more!! lol...no coincidences!! Why did the fact that they had to clean up the car come up so much? Why the blood and then the cleaning fluis..thus the cover up? Why references to car dealership. I have always been convinced the car was the crime scene..it was their MO!!! Thus all the refernces to the cars and all that had happened in them. Come on..it was a portable hotel for them including porn videos!! They watched the big boys play...and then repeated what they saw in their cars!! Too many refernces to sex in the cars!! frigging porn videos set up!!! This is where they operated!!!

Makes sense to me....rolling seedy motels equipped with video cameras, DVD screens, and porn flicks...

[klaasend]

I think it's a good time to repost some information Nativelingo posted over a year ago in the forum:

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm    
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

[ldstlou]

I think it's a good time to repost some information Nativelingo posted over a year ago in the forum:

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm    
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

You are the greatest Klaas...gotta look at this as a cold case file...and answer w/ psychology..in my opinion!! You Red and Mrs. Red have an e-mail from me..let me know what you think!!

[ldstlou]

I think it's a good time to repost some information Nativelingo posted over a year ago in the forum:

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:56 pm    
Nativelingo posted some interresting information about Joran early this morning:

1.  Joran has/had emotional problems and is a patient of a local pediatric/juvenile psychiatrist (fact).
2.  The incident where Joran killed his dog and blamed it on someone else is fact
3.  That bullying friends and the dog issue are the least of Joran's problems (according to reliable sources)
4.  His HOBBY is Criminal Law (fact)

You are the greatest Klaas...gotta look at this as a cold case file...and answer w/ psychology..in my opinion!! You Red and Mrs. Red have an e-mail from me..let me know what you think!!

WOW!!!!
Had missed the part about his hobby being Criminal Law...VERY TELLING

[mrs. red]

jvds's own statement says he was seeing a psychologist.. and jossy even I think at one point mentioned the bullying and the dog....

great info from her...

[mishy]

Thanks Klaas...I had forgotten all about this....Didn't Joran or one of his parents say that he was seeing a counselor about his grades or some lame ass excuse like that? So are they admitting they are lying about Joran being an "honor's student?" LOL No wonder he was scheduled to go to a Jr. college in FL  

The least of Joran's problems...I believe that he'd been in trouble with young girls before and was known for taking advantage of them and was had frequently walked the line between getting accused of rape and going to jail for it...

The dillholes in the ALE serve as a built-in lubricant to assist Joran as he "gets off on" eluding everybody with his verbal criminal law gymnastics...

[ldstlou]

Thanks Klaas...I had forgotten all about this....Didn't Joran or one of his parents say that he was seeing a counselor about his grades or some lame ass excuse like that? So are they admitting they are lying about Joran being an "honor's student?" LOL No wonder he was scheduled to go to a Jr. college in FL  

The least of Joran's problems...I believe that he'd been in trouble with young girls before and was known for taking advantage of them and was had frequently walked the line between getting accused of rape and going to jail for it...

The dillholes in the ALE serve as a built-in lubricant to assist Joran as he "gets off on" eluding everybody with his verbal criminal law gymnastics...

Gotta start studying the phychology of a permissive momma and momma's boy. It is OBVIOUS!! to us all he has no respect for women!! Obvious too...mom is a pushover and lives her own sexual life through her son!! Another reason I don't think Paulus was involved in act...Anita would not be so open with Joran sexually if her own sex life was satisfactory...so sorry for getting crude..truely trying to picture this from the standpoint of the psychology of the family. So REALLY not to be crude!! Let's say Anita's sex life sucks..lol...and she is living her own fanatsies through her son...thus the openess w/ Joran and the permissiveness...although seemingly naive...acceptance of Joran being allowed to have girls spend the night...as though it was "normal, sweet and innocent". I think this is where we will find the disfunction in Joran's sexual encounters!! He is in someways a "surogate spouse" to his mother sexually!! She lives her own fanatsies through her permissiveness with her son...and Pauless..is the father who can't satisfy anyone and just tries to keep them all under control!! His guilt for his wife's permissiveness of their son..causes him to feel guilt and thus he follows Joran to casinos to try and rein the child in!!

[mrs. red]

Thanks Klaas...I had forgotten all about this....Didn't Joran or one of his parents say that he was seeing a counselor about his grades or some lame ass excuse like that? So are they admitting they are lying about Joran being an "honor's student?" LOL No wonder he was scheduled to go to a Jr. college in FL  

The least of Joran's problems...I believe that he'd been in trouble with young girls before and was known for taking advantage of them and was had frequently walked the line between getting accused of rape and going to jail for it...

The dillholes in the ALE serve as a built-in lubricant to assist Joran as he "gets off on" eluding everybody with his verbal criminal law gymnastics...

I would love to know what hey threatened the girl that he threatened with a knife at CnC's really knows.... does anyone else remember that??

[ldstlou]

Please excuse my boldness in past reply...but there is a fine line between what is inhertited evil in my mind and what is learned. For Joran to be as disfunctional as he is at such an early age...call it genes..fine...but SOMETHING!! learned caused the psychopath in him to come out!!! I think the key is in analyzing Pualus and Anita more!! Thus Deepak recognizing Paulus's sick obsession in covering it all up instead of calling his son on it like the rest of us would and understanding the best way to love him would be to get him help...by saying..."Your own father"!!!

[ldstlou]

Deepak KNEW!!!!! no "normal parent" would go to the lengths Paulus did...to cover up such a horrendous crime!!

[blah]

Thanks Klaas...I had forgotten all about this....Didn't Joran or one of his parents say that he was seeing a counselor about his grades or some lame ass excuse like that? So are they admitting they are lying about Joran being an "honor's student?" LOL No wonder he was scheduled to go to a Jr. college in FL  

The least of Joran's problems...I believe that he'd been in trouble with young girls before and was known for taking advantage of them and was had frequently walked the line between getting accused of rape and going to jail for it...

The dillholes in the ALE serve as a built-in lubricant to assist Joran as he "gets off on" eluding everybody with his verbal criminal law gymnastics...

Gotta start studying the phychology of a permissive momma and momma's boy. It is OBVIOUS!! to us all he has no respect for women!! Obvious too...mom is a pushover and lives her own sexual life through her son!! Another reason I don't think Paulus was involved in act...Anita would not be so open with Joran sexually if her own sex life was satisfactory...so sorry for getting crude..truely trying to picture this from the standpoint of the psychology of the family. So REALLY not to be crude!! Let's say Anita's sex life sucks..lol...and she is living her own fanatsies through her son...thus the openess w/ Joran and the permissiveness...although seemingly naive...acceptance of Joran being allowed to have girls spend the night...as though it was "normal, sweet and innocent". I think this is where we will find the disfunction in Joran's sexual encounters!! He is in someways a "surogate spouse" to his mother sexually!! She lives her own fanatsies through her permissiveness with her son...and Pauless..is the father who can't satisfy anyone and just tries to keep them all under control!! His guilt for his wife's permissiveness of their son..causes him to feel guilt and thus he follows Joran to casinos to try and rein the child in!!

I dont know about all that psychology stuff but if you ask me, they are all just a bunch of assholes.