Lively Case Discussion #514 8/19 - 8/21/2006

[Shell]

Good day to all you monkeys. Speaking of the dynamics of that family, I found it odd that in the videos of that family that I saw, mind you I did not see everything, for sure...but I found it odd that I don't recall Anita and Paul walking hand in hand or touching/hugging or kissing each other. I did see many times Joran was walking hand in hand with his Mom,  hugging his mom, and making more physical contact. I am not concluding a perverse relationship with mom and son, but I conclude Mom and Pop have serious problems with each other.

[blah]

Good day to all you monkeys. Speaking of the dynamics of that family, I found it odd that in the videos of that family that I saw, mind you I did not see everything, for sure...but I found it odd that I don't recall Anita and Paul walking hand in hand or touching/hugging or kissing each other. I did see many times Joran was walking hand in hand with his Mom,  hugging his mom, and making more physical contact. I am not concluding a perverse relationship with mom and son, but I conclude Mom and Pop have serious problems with each other.

how about when Joran was petting his mom on the head like a dog?

[ldstlou]

Thanks Klaas...I had forgotten all about this....Didn't Joran or one of his parents say that he was seeing a counselor about his grades or some lame ass excuse like that? So are they admitting they are lying about Joran being an "honor's student?" LOL No wonder he was scheduled to go to a Jr. college in FL  

The least of Joran's problems...I believe that he'd been in trouble with young girls before and was known for taking advantage of them and was had frequently walked the line between getting accused of rape and going to jail for it...

The dillholes in the ALE serve as a built-in lubricant to assist Joran as he "gets off on" eluding everybody with his verbal criminal law gymnastics...

Gotta start studying the phychology of a permissive momma and momma's boy. It is OBVIOUS!! to us all he has no respect for women!! Obvious too...mom is a pushover and lives her own sexual life through her son!! Another reason I don't think Paulus was involved in act...Anita would not be so open with Joran sexually if her own sex life was satisfactory...so sorry for getting crude..truely trying to picture this from the standpoint of the psychology of the family. So REALLY not to be crude!! Let's say Anita's sex life sucks..lol...and she is living her own fanatsies through her son...thus the openess w/ Joran and the permissiveness...although seemingly naive...acceptance of Joran being allowed to have girls spend the night...as though it was "normal, sweet and innocent". I think this is where we will find the disfunction in Joran's sexual encounters!! He is in someways a "surogate spouse" to his mother sexually!! She lives her own fanatsies through her permissiveness with her son...and Pauless..is the father who can't satisfy anyone and just tries to keep them all under control!! His guilt for his wife's permissiveness of their son..causes him to feel guilt and thus he follows Joran to casinos to try and rein the child in!!

I dont know about all that psychology stuff but if you ask me, they are all just a bunch of assholes.

LOL you REALLY made me laugh!!! SO OBVIOUS!!! haha Should  Joran's book me called "How To Raise A Sociopath"!!!!!

[Shell]

It does make one wonder if since J was such a sporter and honor student, why did he not get an offer to a full college? Not to put down any jr college (my daughter is attending one, she flat out wasn't ready for the full college experience) but maybe the Aruba educational standards are different.

[Grande]

http://i8.tinypic.com/257lxt0.jpg  

Gardener's house, Alleged drop off Site, T.J. Ward's second witness, etc.

[ldstlou]

Good day to all you monkeys. Speaking of the dynamics of that family, I found it odd that in the videos of that family that I saw, mind you I did not see everything, for sure...but I found it odd that I don't recall Anita and Paul walking hand in hand or touching/hugging or kissing each other. I did see many times Joran was walking hand in hand with his Mom,  hugging his mom, and making more physical contact. I am not concluding a perverse relationship with mom and son, but I conclude Mom and Pop have serious problems with each other.

EXACTLY!!! think we may be on to the answers!! I am telling you...it has taken from me all the innocence I had left at the age of 41...learning what happens on this "One Happy Island"...and yet coming from a small mafia run hometown (Steubenville Ohio) it makes so much sense!! My Dad had the love and respect for us to get us out of the town when we were young...but the stories he tells us..of the characters and times of his growing up there....are EXACTLY like living in Aruba!!
Who in the h--l where's the ok...just ALL family pics and movies seems INAPPROPRIATE!!! And the "pat on the head"? I would chop my son's hand off!! Just kidding!! Love him at 6 years old...but already!!! RECOGNIZE...this is NOT!! a sign of love but of inferiority...he is putting Anita in her place...I am crying now...truely crying...as he did to Natalee...gotta take a break now..so sorry

[Shell]

That comment....they had a rolling hotel, complete with video, was right on! Especially considering the porn site visited later that evening by one of the people in the Sloot household.

and Blah's comment made me laugh too

[ldstlou]

http://i8.tinypic.com/257lxt0.jpg  

Gardener's house, Alleged drop off Site, T.J. Ward's second witness, etc.

before I go to cry..thanks Grande..it makes sense to me!! I have read your FP posts and you excited me with your research and knowledge like no other!! So glad you are "officially" a member!! I have longed to probe your mind and research for a long time!! Just ask Klaas!! Welcome!!

[ldstlou]

That comment....they had a rolling hotel, complete with video, was right on! Especially considering the porn site visited later that evening by one of the people in the Sloot household.

and Blah's comment made me laugh too

Amen Shell...I am hoping we are on to something!! Waiting to hear from more Monkey's...we need you all back!!! We need all of our genious here in the cage!! Mr. None...bless His heart..is now in a place to guide us!! Let's listen and all come together again...for the sake of our beloved Natalee and her Family!! PLEASE!!!

[ldstlou]

OK..really gotta go cry now..LOVE YOU ALL!! We Shall Prevail!! Goodness always does!!

[mishy]

It does make one wonder if since J was such a sporter and honor student, why did he not get an offer to a full college? Not to put down any jr college (my daughter is attending one, she flat out wasn't ready for the full college experience) but maybe the Aruba educational standards are different.

Shell, that is what I was thinking. I definitely wasn't trying to put down any Jr college, but Julia R was so bent on comparing Joran and Natalee in academia, I thought it was interesting that Joran was supposed to attend a Jr college as opposed to a full college...Plus, I think his SAT scores were much lower than Natalee's...

Come to think of it, I didn't know that you could get a scholarship to a Jr college...Have ya'll ever heard of that?

[msmarple]

At least 6 murders in Aruba in 2005; at least 2 in 2006. Plus some "odd suicides" ... gang rape ... and a very missing girl. Please see my sig line if you know of other incidents, or have more detail on these.


03/??/2005 - Brazilian man murdered by another Brazilian man.

04/30/2005 - Fatal shooting during a party near hotel La Cabana.

05/30/2005 – Natalee Holloway last seen with 3 locals leaving C&Cs.

05/31/2005 – Rastaman fatally stabbed another man (another rasta?) on the beach.

06/10/2005 – Aru-Bay videotapes what appears to be the recovery of a body. It is later claimed to be that of a 7-yr-old illegal immigrant from Columbia, although the body is later reported to have been found a year earlier. Why was he there, not in cemetery? How did police know where he was?

06/18/2005 – Rene Michel van Heyningen –found at a cemetery; partially decapitated; wife charged.

Summer 2005 – Two security guards jumped off building (separate episodes). La Cabana Hotel was the site of one (maybe both) of them. That there are two instances, same occupation, maybe same building, make this suspicious.

Summer2005 – Suicide on the beach (other than the jumpers).

11/04/2005  Margarita Nedd-Panaqua, 35, from Dominican Republic. stabbed by a jealous boyfriend.

11/04/2005 - Galyson Lucas Winster, a 27 year old choler, was shot in the head.

11/16/2005 - Robert Wayne Benson, 56 year old American Harley Davidson mechanic, found locked in a storage container behind the shop in Cura Cabay where he worked. Has been reported a suicide and natural cause – but it’s the locked container that that seems strange.

04/05/2006 - Dinesh ‘Pitbull’ Djoegan, found on/in Guadirikiri cave. His body was mutilated, crucified, and set on fire. Death initially ruled a suicide; do not know whether that has changed.

04/18/2006 – Raul Croes attacked in a restaurant with a machete.

06/23/2006 – Bondia reports on unknown woman found in trash pile.

07/27/2006 – Diario report gang rape and videotaping of 16-yr-old girl at school. Tape is uploaded to internet. Girl’s parents not pressing charges.

[Grande]

http://i8.tinypic.com/257lxt0.jpg  

Gardener's house, Alleged drop off Site, T.J. Ward's second witness, etc.

before I go to cry..thanks Grande..it makes sense to me!! I have read your FP posts and you excited me with your research and knowledge like no other!! So glad you are "officially" a member!! I have longed to probe your mind and research for a long time!! Just ask Klaas!! Welcome!!

Well I am flattered thank you!   Please don't cry though  

I am working on some new developments I think everyone will be interested in seeing in the next day or two.  I appreciate you taking the time to read my posts!

[mishy]

and I've been thinking this for a week now:

Tylergal, please come back! We need your mind working on this case, not to mention the fact that we love you!!

[klaasend]

http://i8.tinypic.com/257lxt0.jpg  

Gardener's house, Alleged drop off Site, T.J. Ward's second witness, etc.

Grande - map looks good except one thing.  The alleged drop of point of Joran and Natalee was right next to the Marriott.  It would be off your map down in the bottom left hand corner.

[Grande]

http://i8.tinypic.com/257lxt0.jpg  

Gardener's house, Alleged drop off Site, T.J. Ward's second witness, etc.

Grande - map looks good except one thing.  The alleged drop of point of Joran and Natalee was right next to the Marriott.  It would be off your map down in the bottom left hand corner.

I will revise it and post it later, thank you.

[ldstlou]

http://i8.tinypic.com/257lxt0.jpg  

Gardener's house, Alleged drop off Site, T.J. Ward's second witness, etc.

before I go to cry..thanks Grande..it makes sense to me!! I have read your FP posts and you excited me with your research and knowledge like no other!! So glad you are "officially" a member!! I have longed to probe your mind and research for a long time!! Just ask Klaas!! Welcome!!

Well I am flattered thank you!   Please don't cry though  

I am working on some new developments I think everyone will be interested in seeing in the next day or two.  I appreciate you taking the time to read my posts!

Grande!! Ask Klaas!! Have been watching your developements and REALLY REALLY impressed!! What a jewell you are!! So so glad you are with us now!! And sometimes ya just gotta cry..it's just too sad!!

[ldstlou]

and I've been thinking this for a week now:

Tylergal, please come back! We need your mind working on this case, not to mention the fact that we love you!!

I 2nd the motion!! We need all of our Monkeys back including Flyingmermaid!! Time to put our pride aside!! oohh!! That rhymed!! lol..and get back down to business!! Remember....Mr None is watching us now from above and offering his assistance from Above!! Love you all...PLEASE come back!!

OK>>REALLY crying now!!

[Shell]

OK..really gotta go cry now..LOVE YOU ALL!! We Shall Prevail!! Goodness always does!!

Id, I have never left! I just don't always post. A good cry is good now and then, hugs to you.

[mrs. red]

Good day to all you monkeys. Speaking of the dynamics of that family, I found it odd that in the videos of that family that I saw, mind you I did not see everything, for sure...but I found it odd that I don't recall Anita and Paul walking hand in hand or touching/hugging or kissing each other. I did see many times Joran was walking hand in hand with his Mom,  hugging his mom, and making more physical contact. I am not concluding a perverse relationship with mom and son, but I conclude Mom and Pop have serious problems with each other.

my observation in all of the times I have seen them... is that jvds acts like he is the parent... he kisses the top of his mom's head and pets her like she is a child...and in the CA video - that interview - pvds is struggling with all the luggage... jvds is just hanging with his IPOD...