Natalee Case Discussion #705 12/18 - 12/20/07

[Silverfox]

Klaas, it was obvious to me that the video was taken after the fact. Notice how the girl always kept her head down and the cap covered her face and she never looked up?  Obvious it was not Natalee to me.  Appears staged to me.

  Now that is an interesting theory.....

That may be a new video,I have never seen it but I did see images of this same girl at the store.I think it was at RWV back in the very beginning of the case.I didn't think that looked like Natalee then and I don't think it looks like her now.

LOL...Everybody knows that was Britney S.  -- right?  Don't all good-looking blondes (even though she really isn't blonde) look the same when trying to look incognito? 

[Peaches]

Taco Schmako - what a piece of work he is

i would like to see him throw up all over himself on TV when he is on greta

honest to goodness - every time i see him i think i smell something burning



his pants are on fire.

I hear grease fires are hard to put out. 

[NYC_lover]

What a strange reporting from Aruba first reporting: case closed and now not case closed.
Which OM people is laying to the media?

now that john paully is the pr person for the om's office, we'll be getting nothing but misinformation and disinformation from them.  paully is a colleague of steve cohen, also known as aruba steve, because he regularly told more lies that baghdad bob.  bob was at least humorous and made us laugh.  cohen, and now paully, are like the van der sloot clan.  they couldn't order breakfast without lying.
dennisintn

Dennis - thanks for to bring this!

[Peaches]

My response to Aruba and Holland:

ethics, character, accountability, responsibility and courage!

You are showing none of these.

You have to HAVE some to SHOW some.

Good morning. Reading frantically before I get ready to go my CT. 

[tcumom]

Peaches ~ You will be in my thoughts and prayers today....wishing you the best news ever. 

[Buckeye]

Well, Glenda (Julia Renfro) hasn't been posting on RU, since Dec 7th and now she is.  That usually means something preemptive.  Her latest spiel is badmouthing FBI and how false info of Natalee's death got to family June 10th.  If there is a conference Thursday, my guess would be, if they give any info, it would be related to the FBI believing Natalee is dead since they seem to keep saying she is but can't prove the violent part.

Peaches.....prayers for you...

[Silverfox]

Well, Glenda (Julia Renfro) hasn't been posting on RU, since Dec 7th and now she is.  That usually means something preemptive.  Her latest spiel is badmouthing FBI and how false info of Natalee's death got to family June 10th.  If there is a conference Thursday, my guess would be, if they give any info, it would be related to the FBI believing Natalee is dead since they seem to keep saying she is but can't prove the violent part.

Peaches.....prayers for you...

Connect the dots...What do you think the possibility is that they are announcing they are turning case files over to the FBI for further investigation and possible prosecution in the U.S.?  This will be interesting to watch...

[Blue Moon]

This was posted on the FP.  Wonder if Paulus is practicing law again?  Bet he has advised Joran's lawyer (wonder if that would be his Aruban lawyer or his American lawyer) to be sure and file a complaint against the searchers just in case they find Natalee:


Amsterdam 020 on December 19th, 2007 5:41 am

Please don’t believe everything that Fox is telling you!

In the Aruban media as well as the Dutch media it has been confirmed that (for now) the investigation is indeed closed.

For everyone’s understanding; this does not mean that the person(s) responsible for the dissapearance of Natalee will never be convicted. However new and strong evidence shall have to be presented in order to prosecute the suspect(s).

And again; neither the Dutch people nor the Dutch government have anything to do with the way the investigation was conducted. Only because the Aruban government invited the Dutch police detectives, they were able to get involved.

The Dutch media also report that the attorney of Joran van der Sloot is not happy with the fact that the Aruban prosecutors are not involved in the (private) boat search because of the risk that evidence is planted.

[Buckeye]

Well, Glenda (Julia Renfro) hasn't been posting on RU, since Dec 7th and now she is.  That usually means something preemptive.  Her latest spiel is badmouthing FBI and how false info of Natalee's death got to family June 10th.  If there is a conference Thursday, my guess would be, if they give any info, it would be related to the FBI believing Natalee is dead since they seem to keep saying she is but can't prove the violent part.

Peaches.....prayers for you...

Connect the dots...What do you think the possibility is that they are announcing they are turning case files over to the FBI for further investigation and possible prosecution in the U.S.?  This will be interesting to watch...

Personal opinion:  No way.  Not only that, I don't believe the FBI would want the case.  They were there in the early days and I am sure they know the internal politics.  I don't believe they need to review anything.  They know exactly what happened and why.  Now whether a case can be made for interpol investigating police corruption is another matter.  I don't believe they will want to get into that muck.

Somebody really should state why the FBI and Aruban OM keep saying Natalee is dead.  There must be a reason.  I think the disinformation team is pouncing because the death will be attributed to FBI conclusion, based of course, on the misinformation from the corrupt American MSM (which confirms info with a second source).

[Blue Moon]

Joe Taco was confronted by Fox that Drew Peterson is calling him and asking him to take his case.  He stumbled on that one Says Juron is controllable as compared to Drew who should be told to SHUT UP.  Joran is controllable?  By whom?  He was controlled by his parents. AND Joe is not a lawyer on Aruba.  HE is a PR rep for Aruba if truth be told.  This is sick.  An American trader! (MO).  (By the way he did not confirm if he was going to be Drew's lawyer--Drew knows who to call in if you are guilty. NO BODY-NO CASE fits both cases).

[Buckeye]

This was posted on the FP.  Wonder if Paulus is practicing law again?  Bet he has advised Joran's lawyer (wonder if that would be his Aruban lawyer or his American lawyer) to be sure and file a complaint against the searchers just in case they find Natalee:


Amsterdam 020 on December 19th, 2007 5:41 am

Please don’t believe everything that Fox is telling you!

In the Aruban media as well as the Dutch media it has been confirmed that (for now) the investigation is indeed closed.

For everyone’s understanding; this does not mean that the person(s) responsible for the dissapearance of Natalee will never be convicted. However new and strong evidence shall have to be presented in order to prosecute the suspect(s).

And again; neither the Dutch people nor the Dutch government have anything to do with the way the investigation was conducted. Only because the Aruban government invited the Dutch police detectives, they were able to get involved.

The Dutch media also report that the attorney of Joran van der Sloot is not happy with the fact that the Aruban prosecutors are not involved in the (private) boat search because of the risk that evidence is planted.

Where was Joran's attorney when "the whole island" took the day off and tourists and everyone were searching.  God knows who found what and where.  The ALE has never organized and been involved in any third parties looking for evidence or Natalee.

I would love it if they found the K Swiss and inside barrel of the filter system from Joran's house.  Now that would be hard to plant....

[Blue Moon]

Joe Taco was confronted by Fox that Drew Peterson is calling him and asking him to take his case.  He stumbled on that one Says Juron is controllable as compared to Drew who should be told to SHUT UP.  Joran is controllable?  By whom?  He was not controlled by his parents. AND Joe is not a lawyer on Aruba.  HE is a PR rep for Aruba if truth be told.  This is sick.  An American trader! (MO).  (By the way he did not confirm if he was going to be Drew's lawyer--Drew knows who to call in if you are guilty. NO BODY-NO CASE fits both cases).

edit to add "not" controlled by his parents.

[NYC_lover]

This was posted on the FP.  Wonder if Paulus is practicing law again?  Bet he has advised Joran's lawyer (wonder if that would be his Aruban lawyer or his American lawyer) to be sure and file a complaint against the searchers just in case they find Natalee:


Amsterdam 020 on December 19th, 2007 5:41 am

Please don’t believe everything that Fox is telling you!

In the Aruban media as well as the Dutch media it has been confirmed that (for now) the investigation is indeed closed.

For everyone’s understanding; this does not mean that the person(s) responsible for the dissapearance of Natalee will never be convicted. However new and strong evidence shall have to be presented in order to prosecute the suspect(s).

And again; neither the Dutch people nor the Dutch government have anything to do with the way the investigation was conducted. Only because the Aruban government invited the Dutch police detectives, they were able to get involved.

The Dutch media also report that the attorney of Joran van der Sloot is not happy with the fact that the Aruban prosecutors are not involved in the (private) boat search because of the risk that evidence is planted.

In the Aruban media as well as the Dutch media it has been confirmed that (for now) the investigation is indeed closed.
This is right and not right.
Dutch TV stations and (online)newspapers have sees the Holloway is closed. Only the news from De Telegraaf today is:

Zoektocht naar Holloway doorgezet

ORANJESTAD -  Een team van experts heeft de zoektocht naar de verdwenen tiener Natalee Holloway op Aruba doorgezet ondanks het besluit van justitie om de zaak tegen de verdachten te sluiten wegens gebrek aan bewijs.
Rond het eiland is woensdag een speciaal Amerikaans onderzoeksschip begonnen met het scannen van de zeebodem. De aankomst van de boot Persistence wordt bevestigd door Tim Miller van Texas Equuesearch (TES), een organisatie die vermiste Amerikanen opspoort als de autoriteiten dat opgeven.

Het schip werd al een maand geleden aangekondigd door Dave Holloway, de vader van Natalee, maar liep afgelopen week vertraging op door onder meer tropische storm Olga in het Caribisch gebied.

De Persistance kan tot op drie kilometer diepte zoeken, in tegenstelling tot de honderd meter bij de vorige zoekactie in zee naar Holloway. De experts hebben daarvoor de 'beste detectoren van de planeet' aan boord. De kosten voor het onderzoek zouden per dag oplopen tot honderdduizenden dollars en worden met donaties gedekt.

Het Openbaar Ministerie heeft zich gedistantieerd van de particuliere zoekactie. Dit tot ontevredenheid van de advocaat van Joran van der Sloot, Ariean de Bie, die vreest dat er zonder controle misschien wel eens bewijsstukken verzonnen kunnen worden. „Ze zouden er zo een handtasje bij kunnen leggen.” 

This want to sees justice in Aruba has closed the case. But that there is still a searching of Tim Miller at the sea by Aruba.
And that is why the Dutch media write the case is (not closed and) not beyond.

[Blue Moon]

Thanks NYC.  Is this saying the case is not closed yet because of the search?  If nothing shows up in the search then the case is really closed at that point?  Thanks for bringing this article to us.

[Buckeye]

I would like to know why Joe's "forensic scientist" drove the route, including the lighthouse per his interview.....and Joe's client, Joran denies the lighthouse story, in his book.  Why would the scientist include a trip there??

Could we possibly get Jossy to identify those in the rocks video.  I still don't understand the need to paint over red stains if the body recovered was years old.  Surely those stains would have been worn away in the wind.  I wish he would interview that team, including the "nose" guy.

[Magnolia]

Didn't the FBI tell Beth that they felt certain Natalee
was dead due to the amount of blood in the Kalpoe car?
Then the blood turned into chocolate and cleaning fluid.
I always felt that blood was in the trunk of the car and
not the small amount in the headliner.

[Buckeye]

Didn't the FBI tell Beth that they felt certain Natalee
was dead due to the amount of blood in the Kalpoe car?
Then the blood turned into chocolate and cleaning fluid.
I always felt that blood was in the trunk of the car and
not the small amount in the headliner.

When Beth described the blood she pointed to the air (headliner) but called it the roof.  I remember people thinking she meant outside of car (when only reading the transcript), but if you had watched the clip with her description, it was clear she was describing the inside of the car.  I do believe the FBI described what they found.  I remember Jossy commenting about blood in a VanderSloot vehicle???  I don't think Natalee would have been in Deepak's trunk due to the sound system....of course, I guess it could have been removed and then replaced.....thinking here....

[NYC_lover]

Thanks NYC.  Is this saying the case is not closed yet because of the search?  If nothing shows up in the search then the case is really closed at that point?  Thanks for bringing this article to us.

You are welcome Blue Moon of KY. Yes the Dutch media is reporting that in the news of day. But justice in Aruba has closed the case and that is a fact, IMO/what I think, the Dutch media has just make an opinion about the case is not closed, because there is still a search. Yes that is also correct the case is closed really then. I know when Dutch/Aruban Government/Justice people close a case, then absolutely no useful evidence material for a case contains, of course when there suspects been in the picture. But also when there is no evidence found, no body and another interesting things in a case. When a case in the Netherlands come in this situation, a situation for closed, then is there a bit change for ever a solved, for the head police control of a case.
Also when there been 5 investigator team have research a case.

But about a closed case, when there is really new evidence or facts then they want re-open the case again.
And sometimes a case get around 2 times or more open and re-open.
There come a case of rape and murder for re-opening in region police corps Friesland on January 1, 2008.

[Anna]

Didn't the FBI tell Beth that they felt certain Natalee
was dead due to the amount of blood in the Kalpoe car?
Then the blood turned into chocolate and cleaning fluid.
I always felt that blood was in the trunk of the car and
not the small amount in the headliner.

When Beth described the blood she pointed to the air (headliner) but called it the roof.  I remember people thinking she meant outside of car (when only reading the transcript), but if you had watched the clip with her description, it was clear she was describing the inside of the car.  I do believe the FBI described what they found.  I remember Jossy commenting about blood in a VanderSloot vehicle???  I don't think Natalee would have been in Deepak's trunk due to the sound system....of course, I guess it could have been removed and then replaced.....thinking here....

IIRC, Beth was saying that there was blood EVEN in the headliner, not just on it.  And only one article I ever saw where Jossy says blood in one of the van der Sloot cars so don't know if that panned out or not.

For sure volume of blood is one way to indicate a person is deceased if the blood is tested and proven to belong to that person.  That didn't happen in this instance that we are aware of, anyway.

Presence of vital organ tissue is another way such as brain or liver as we know no subsequent hospitalization happened.  But basically we have not been told how Mos knows for a fact certain that Natalee is deceased.  Perhaps that will be forthcoming today in his big presser.  Supposed to tell the new evidence as well but that I have to see.

I do detect a rift between the OM and Rudy Croes.  And wasn't it Croes who was saying these last arrests would never have taken place if he had been consulted beforehand?  Oduber has been completely silent oddly enough.

Tyler wins the prize for calling that one from the start.

[Nut44x4]

by Gwen@RU

Julia Renfroe to the AL news

Tuesday, Dec 18, 2007 - 11:57 PM Updated: 12:12 AM

By Chris Pollone

ORANJESTAD, Aruba- Authorities in Aruba say they have closed the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, adding that the Kalpoe brothers and Joran van der Sloot will not be charged.

A spokeswoman for Natalee's mother Beth Holloway says she is "terribly disappointed" that the case was closed. Prosecutors say they still believe the three men are involved in the disappearance, but cannot prove a crime was committed because Natalee's body was never recovered.

Many had suspected Aruban prosecutors would close the case by the end of the year, but "Aruba Today" Editor in Chief, Julia Renfro, says that expectation didn't blunt the reality that the decision has officially been made.

"It's surprising to everybody because so much has been said about these three main suspects," Renfro tells NBC13 HD news. "But the bottom line is the prosecutor's office announced they do not have enough evidence to bring this to trial."

Renfro says the news is a blow not only to friends and family of Natalee Holloway, but also to people in Aruba who believe in the criminal justice system there, and had hoped the island's most notorious crime would be solved.

"To come two and a half years later to find there's not much more than we know today, that we knew two years ago, that's devastating," says Renfro.

It's a sentiment shared by many in Natalee's home town of Mountain Brook. Natalee's high school dance teammate Cameron Perry hopes one day the Holloway family gets justice. Right now, she's can't be sure that will happen.

"It's kind of upsetting," Perry says. "But I guess you could see it coming because it's been dragged out for so long and right at the beginning it seems like it would hinder the case."

Meanwhile in the waters off Aruba, the underwater sonar search for any clues in Natalee's disappearance continues. Searchers tell NBC13 HD news that closing the case will not stop their efforts. In fact, should they find some new, compelling evidence, the case of Natalee Holloway can be re-opened.

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2007-12-18-0009.html