Natalee Case Discussion #705 12/18 - 12/20/07

[Anna]

Never implied it was Anna. read my list, does it say Dutch people on there? All I was stating was that the majority of players involved were Dutch and they all came from Holland and some did work for the Dutch government. Nobody is blaming the Dutch populus for any of this.

No where do you say government, just Dutch.  That includes everybody.

(Snipped above quotes.)

Response: People get the government they want badly enough to fight for. Look what the students in Venezuela were able to accomplish just last month, in the face of a blatant dictator. Courage and convictions. If the people of Aruba had any convictions or courage, they would have a decent government. They don't. End of story.

Not talking about Aruba, talking about The Netherlands.  They seem pretty content with their government.  I wouldn't like it but the Dutch are no longer responsible for Aruba as far as decision making goes.  They are autonomous, so they claim, meaning they just want Dutch money and do not even want to tell the Dutch how they spend it.

I don't think the Dutch get up thinking about Aruba every day and would likely like very much to be rid of the whole thing as it is a tremendous financial liability as they owe a lot of money to the Dutch and do not seem to want to repay it.

No one wants to put good money after bad.  But saying something is a "Dutch thang" implies involvement of the population of The Netherlands and I think that is a little too broad in scope.  Dayhiker says he only means the government or those in Aruba but just says Dutch which is all inclusive to my way of thinking.  The Dutch bashing gets old to those of us Dutch Americans just the same way the Italian bashing gets to those Italian Americans sometimes when it goes over the top and becomes all inclusive as well when we mean mostly Joe T.

You can't attack any entire ethnic group without someone taking offense.  I am usually pretty good natured about it but sometimes think it is just not warranted to include all Dutch people.

Others evidently feel differently.  Not sure how insulting the Dutch is productive thing to do in this instance.   

[Buckeye]

I don't understand why they can not bring the three, in front of a judge, to get each of their statements, under oath.  At least if evidence points to a lie, they are held accountable for the lie.   

[Magnolia]

What about when people attack Southerners?  That is the only
ethnic group that I know that I belong to.
It doesn't offend me....I know better.

[Port Valerie]

Not bashing the Dutch. Bashing Aruba. Do you think Queen Beatrix will be taking her daughters to Aruba on vacation any time soon? The Dutch have common sense.

[Anna]

Anna or Tyler help, please. John Pauley's name came up a week or so ago, and I am not familiar with him. Was there a New York connection?
Any info would be appreciated. TIA

[quote date=1197049205]
The judge called for Joran van der Sloot, 20, to be freed, according to John Pauly, a communications consultant who acts as a spokesman for the prosecutors' office. Details of the ruling were not immediately available and a news conference was scheduled for later in the day.

Hmmm....I wonder if this is the same John Pauly.....



ARUBA HIRES PORN ADVOCATE AS MEDIA ADVISOR

T4N EXPOSES THE TRUTH FOR NATALEE



John Pauly


“Researchers have shown the educational value of pornography and its role in enhancing communications between couples."


ArubaTruth reported this quote was made by John Pauly, a Media Consultant who represents Adult Freedom Foundation (AFF). This statement is contained in the contents of his letter's to Legislative Director Ken Miller and Dr. Phil McGraw of the Dr. Phil Television Show.




A letter was written to Dr. Phil McGraw in reference to AFF by John Pauly. In the letter Pauly addresses the porn industry with Dr. Phil and makes the following statements:

"Please allow the staff of the Adult Freedom Foundation to provide you with free expert information when discussing issues concerning the adult entertainment industry.
AFF can draw from a pool of attorneys, researchers and industry executives to counter misinformation and unfounded criticism from industry critics.
All too often television audiences are exposed only to attacks on the increasingly main stream adult entertainment scene.
There are two sides to every story and AFF wants to provide a balance to any print story or broadcast.
For example, researchers have shown the educational value of pornography and its role in enhancing communications between couples.
While adamantly against child pornography, AFF believes adults should be allowed to enjoy erotic entertainment.
AFF experts are ready to service your informational needs on a moments notice.
Thank you for your time and consideration." This communication was signed by John Pauly, Media Consultant.

John Pauly is a Veteran TV news producer who worked as a reporter in the 1980s at WCAU located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He worked there with Steve Cohen, whom we have spotlighted in previous articles. At 20/20 WUVP-TV 65 also in Philadelphia, Pauly held the position of Field Producer per a 2004 source, univision.net.

An investigation reveals general counsel for Adult Freedom Foundation is Paul Cambria & John Pauly. These same two men are associated with strategic planning for Aruba in reference to the Natalee Holloway case. Cambria and Pauly are associates of Steve Cohen, the hired political consultant for premier Oduber and the MEP party in Aruba.

Public records indicate the AFF is located as follows:

•ADULT FREEDOM FOUNDATION
119 E. MONTGOMERY AVE.,
SUITE 2 ARDMORE, PA., 19003
PHONE 610 896 5558

In Ardmore, Pennsylvania, Montgomery County public records reflect a Mortgage Deed for AFF's street address and parcel registered to John Pauly.

Paul Cambria is a Buffalo, NY based first amendment attorney who has represented various figures and companies within the pornography industry.
Interestingly, Paul Cambria is Larry Flint's (Penthouse Magazine Founder) general counsel as well. In taking a deeper look into Cambria it is noted, "after George W. Bush's 2000 election, there was concern within the pornography industry regarding possible future U.S. Justice Department prosecution over obscene material. Cambria is known for creating a list of sex acts which he recommended pornographers not film so as to avoid possible legal problems with the U.S. Government. It became known as, "The Cambria List" and is controversial and subject to interpretation, even within the porn industry."

Adult Freedom Foundation actively participates in U.S. Government
as advocates for the porn industry. A reference can be made to  lobbying that took place in Congress where the General Counsel for AFF testified on its behalf.

"The Adult Freedom Foundation is pleased to announce that Paul Cambria, our general counsel, has been invited to testify before a U.S. Senate hearing on “Internet Pornography,” Thursday, Jan. 19, 2006.
Atty. Cambria will present oral testimony and then participate in a panel discussion before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.

In a letter signed by Sen. Ted Stevens, the Committee chairman, Cambria is asked to: “Focus your testimony on what appropriate controls might be placed on pornography on the Internet and whether there is a role that government might play.”

Cambria also stated “I’m pleased that the Committee is allowing me to appear on behalf of the Adult Entertainment Industry to present a balanced picture on this important issue,” Cambria said.
“All too often in the past, Congress has heard only one side of issues involving the Industry. I’m hoping my appearance will mark a turning point in allowing AFF expert witnesses to testify at future hearings,” he said. Cambria acknowledged the support of AFF founders and the efforts of John Pauly, media consultant in making this break through possible.

Here is some revelation knowledge that Researchers at T4N uncovered:

"James writes:
Thanks Luke for continuing to expose the .xxx domain name scam. It is as obvious as the nose on your face that the scam is a way for a private, non-adult company (ICMR, Jason Hendales, CEO) to quickly make a few fast millions by extorting adult webmasters. If we must purchase just 25,000 domains (to protect our copyrights) at $60 a pop, that’s $1,500,000/yr out of thin air!

Meanwhile, adult content would be ghettoized thereby making the future right-wing crack down about 100 times easier. Some dimwits (usually so-called porn defending attorneys) say it is good because it will “legally protect” us and it’s voluntary. First, it is only voluntary so far and secondly, you know if an adult company does purchase their .com domain name in the .xxx version, they might as well throw away the .com version, because to continue to use it AFTER you set up a mirror site in .xxx would virtually be an admission of guilt!!! That you are continuing to try to attract those who don’t want to or shouldn’t be viewing your site.

Mr. Cambria and his attorney friends are the only ones in a love affair with the .xxx scam. Might it have something to do with the massive litigation that will ensue, making each of them far more valuable per hour and bigger stars than ever on the talk show circuit? Thankfully .xxx appears to be heading toward defeat. Otherwise it would be the first step toward the end of our industry on the Net." A reference to the source of this information is made to: http://www.lukeisback.com/archives/updates/060124.htm

NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

At Arubatruth, a post by the Strategic Communications Task Force at 1:50 PM  on Saturday, October 8, 2005 was made that stated,  "A newsman who covered the case but wished to remain anonymous praised Pauly, who set up regular noon briefings to allow Aruban authorities to correct errors and rumors."

Pauly stated his "greatest triumph was persuading Aruban authorities to hold a press briefing when the suspects were released and made available for interviews."

"The Aruban police thought the American media were morons because of all the misinformation they were putting on the air," said  John Pauly. "So they weren't about to cooperate with them."

"This was the first time in the history of this investigation that the police actually cooperated with the media," said Pauly. "So the media got their access to ask questions."

Like Holloway, Bradley may have gotten too close to local characters of less-than-stellar repute.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060110184420/http://www.arubatruth.com/
What exactly is John Pauly suggesting in this statement ?

Unfortunately, the question of what happened to Holloway may never be solved. "Look at it from a logical point of view," said Pauly. "There's no body, so there's no murder. There's no crime. There's no rape because there's no complainant. There's no forensic evidence, no credible witnesses. So what are you going to do with these guys?"


DISCLAIMER: While every effort has been made to report the truth, this article  is subject to errors and omissions. It is not intended to slander, libel, or defame anyone. It is merely the opinion of researchers at Truth4Natalee.

Copyright Protected @ Truth4Natalee 2007

[/quote]



BUMP


That's quite a little dossier you have on this person, *******.  Never saw better confirmation on his porn connection.  Now this is the person who is the official spokesperson for the Office of the Prosecution?

While I fully realize porn is legal in Aruba, this is just in very poor taste, IMO.  Can't they find anybody who isn't connected?  I know I have been very shocked in the past at who had similar connections so maybe they are not aware of this aspect of their new spokesman. 

But while legal, porn is still controversial and they should have the sense and decency to take that into consideration and select as a spokesperson someone who is not an advocate for what some consider total oppression of women, children and other minorities. 
But when has sensitivity ever been an aspect of those in charge of this so-called alleged investigation! 

I don't have Jossy's email address any more, lost my address book but I hope someone who does have it will forward this to him and ask if this is the best the prosecution can do as far as a spokesman goes.

MO, IMHO, MOO, JMO, etc.

.

[Magnolia]

I don't understand why they can not bring the three, in front of a judge, to get each of their statements, under oath.  At least if evidence points to a lie, they are held accountable for the lie.   

Well, remember....according to their system they are expected to lie to
defend themselves.  We don't understand their system

Buckeye  In the South the saying goes that if you carry a Buckeye in
your pocket or purse you will never die drunk.

[Anna]

What about when people attack Southerners?  That is the only
ethnic group that I know that I belong to.
It doesn't offend me....I know better.

I only react to about one in a thousand attacks on the Dutch posted here but when it's in HUGE letters that corruption is a Dutch Thang, it's pretty hard to let slide.  Same for Southern attacks, usually just let it slide but if in huge bold print, I think something is designed to get a reaction and I probably would react to that, too.

Another thing that irks me is attacks on Rednecks which is also racial as only white people sunburn and get red necks.

But like you, I mostly let it slide.  I, too, know different but when the Dutch pull out of Aruba totally, I doubt that it becomes a better place despite claims that they are the problem.  Something tells me that it will become much worse, in fact.  Case in point, South Africa.  That place is now a total disaster and I think Aruba would follow much the same.

Time will tell but I personally doubt that we will see some sort of reform when the Dutch do leave as eventually they will do and I think it can't come soon enough for many of the Dutch people.

MO

.

[Ree]

I don't understand why they can not bring the three, in front of a judge, to get each of their statements, under oath.  At least if evidence points to a lie, they are held accountable for the lie.   

Well, remember....according to their system they are expected to lie to
defend themselves.  We don't understand their system

Buckeye  In the South the saying goes that if you carry a Buckeye in
your pocket or purse you will never die drunk.

Just curious....does this mean you have to stay drunk to be safe?

[Magnolia]

I just realized what "MOO" means.  I thought it was people
making a cow sound at the end of their post and I could never
figure why.

[Magnolia]

I don't understand why they can not bring the three, in front of a judge, to get each of their statements, under oath.  At least if evidence points to a lie, they are held accountable for the lie.   

Well, remember....according to their system they are expected to lie to
defend themselves.  We don't understand their system

Buckeye  In the South the saying goes that if you carry a Buckeye in
your pocket or purse you will never die drunk.

Just curious....does this mean you have to stay drunk to be safe?

Yes

[Dayhiker]

Good morning. I don't think they can close this case, because to close the case they would have had to actually be investigating the case, and we all know that didn't happen. Maybe a search and destroy operation of all possible evidence. Maybe a stellar defense of the guilty production orchestrated by the prosecutor's office and the judges. Maybe a bungling public relations campaign that protects the guilty and condemns who they supposedly value so highly, a tourist. If the problems with this case rests with the prosecutor's office and the judges, conflict of interest being the obvious possible problem, then this is a Dutch problem, orchestrated by all Dutch Nationals, using Dutch Institutions, who have seemingly placed as shields in front of themselves the Arubian citizens. The Dutch hand pick every Dutch legal employee who have touched this case, they have procedures for handling conflicts of interest, and soley bear the responsibility for the independence and integrity of their employees actions. The Dutch are the only ones who could launch an investigation of the investigation itself.

Well said PI, exactly the point I was trying to make only you did it more succinctly.

[Tamikosmom]

When it is considered that once the case has been closed ... upon request from Natalee's family ... steps can be initiated by the American administration in regards to investigating the corrupt Aruban investigation which has denied Natalee Holloway justice ... could it be that Aruba will not officially close the Natalee Holloway case?  Will Aruban allow it to become a cold case?
 
Janet

+++++++++++++++++


Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 2, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely.  There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids


http://www.internationalextradition.com/netherlands_bi.htm
When the FBI Seeks Extradition
BILATERAL EXTRADITION TREATIES
NETHERLANDS

[Anna]

Not bashing the Dutch. Bashing Aruba. Do you think Queen Beatrix will be taking her daughters to Aruba on vacation any time soon? The Dutch have common sense.

I think the Queen is a figurehead just as she is in England and doesn't really have a say in anything.  Security for the Royal family would not allow for anything comparable to what the average touist might encounter.

But having this duality in government is just a perfect out for Aruba to blame everything on the Dutch while calling themselves autonomous.  The Arubans do not appear capable of running a hot dog stand to me, let alone their own country.

Oduber is the Prime Minister and where is he in all this?  We know where Rudy Croes stands, firmly behind the suspects but Oduber has not said a word that I have heard.  He is much closer and in a higher position of authority than any of the Dutch and yet he says nothing and that's OK?

Well, in the long run, none of it matters anyway.

I don't believe for one minute the investigation will continue no matter what they say.  It never really started, just a cover up did.

[Dayhiker]

I said it last night, and will say it again now.............

I think Aruba has decided to re-think because they DO NOT want to release the files.

The suspects have been released from suspect status, but they'll keep the case in a catagory to protect the files.

I agree CBB. Once those files get out they are toast. Let's see the communications records, the wiretaps, the complete set of Joran's unpublished statements. It will hang them.

[robots]

i hate all mean people

i was certainly not implying all dutch are bad..

so - im sorry if i hurt someone

i just got here. and i cant stay - im going back to the airport 

[Anna]

When it is considered that once the case has been closed ... upon request from Natalee's family ... steps can be initiated by the American administration in regards to investigating the corrupt Aruban investigation which has denied Natalee Holloway justice ... could it be that Aruba will not officially close the Natalee Holloway case?  Will Aruban allow it to become a cold case?
 
Janet

+++++++++++++++++


Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 2, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely.  There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids


http://www.internationalextradition.com/netherlands_bi.htm
When the FBI Seeks Extradition
BILATERAL EXTRADITION TREATIES
NETHERLANDS

The Arubans will say they didn't sign the Treaty, the Dutch did, and so it doesn't apply to them.  But the Dutch constitution makes it very, very difficult to extradite any Dutch citizen.  One for a crime committed as a minor isn't likely to happen no matter what.  They also do not extradite for crimes that carry a death penalty and are still refusing to extradite a terrorist suspected of involvement in the 9/11 attack on this country based on the fact he could face the death penalty in this country.

.

[Anna]

i hate all mean people

i was certainly not implying all dutch are bad..

so - im sorry if i hurt someone

i just got here. and i cant stay - im going back to the airport 

You are still sweeter than Tupelo honey, Robots!!!

[NYC_lover]

Good morning. I don't think they can close this case, because to close the case they would have had to actually be investigating the case, and we all know that didn't happen. Maybe a search and destroy operation of all possible evidence. Maybe a stellar defense of the guilty production orchestrated by the prosecutor's office and the judges. Maybe a bungling public relations campaign that protects the guilty and condemns who they supposedly value so highly, a tourist. If the problems with this case rests with the prosecutor's office and the judges, conflict of interest being the obvious possible problem, then this is a Dutch problem, orchestrated by all Dutch Nationals, using Dutch Institutions, who have seemingly placed as shields in front of themselves the Arubian citizens. The Dutch hand pick every Dutch legal employee who have touched this case, they have procedures for handling conflicts of interest, and soley bear the responsibility for the independence and integrity of their employees actions. The Dutch are the only ones who could launch an investigation of the investigation itself.

Private Eye - Justice can in the Dutch law system a case closed and when there is new evidence, facts or somethings else what important is for the case then they can re-open the case. In the Netherlands are right now between 3 to 10 cases closed. Sometimes there are in one case more then 150 investigators looking to the case and that are around 5 investigating teams that have work in component parties and not component parties. In a research when there is none good books and useful results, they closed a case after approximately 2 to 3 years. Depending on of the case results, there can in 2 to 3 years, already have been a cold-case.This all has something to do with, what kind of investigating it is. A normal investigating, cold-case or closed case. Depending of the research leader, it will be stipulated what the impact is there when there at the first stage of a research has produced nothing. When there is no results booked in the first stage in a research, then there comes a research/meeting between the head-public prosecution, public prosecution, the research leader and maybe somebody else that can have influence has at/on the research. They want watch and talked about the suspect(s), evidence material and etc. And in that time they will be taken a decision concerning the rest of the research.

[NYC_lover]

Not bashing the Dutch. Bashing Aruba. Do you think Queen Beatrix will be taking her daughters to Aruba on vacation any time soon? The Dutch have common sense.

Well, I know Queen Beatrix was at Aruba in 2006. I believe in the same time that John Cruijf was at Aruba, for promote/push his sportfoundation. And I have heard, someone of the royal family goes to Aruba, no idea for what and which royal family member it is.

[MuffyBee]

Turn TVs on, Old Executive Office Building, White House, is on fire.

Thank you for letting us know, Tyler.  I didn't have my tv on.  Fortunately, it seems to have turned out okay.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-12-19-voa51.cfm
A fire broke out Wednesday in the Executive Office Building in the White House compound, but Washington fire fighters quickly had the blaze under control.

Smoke billowed from the historic building as emergency crews rushed to the scene. Fire fighters broke windows, moved furniture to a balcony and sprayed water as they fought the blaze.


White House spokeswoman Dana Perino says the source of the fire may have been an electrical closet or telephone bank. She says the blaze was put out in 30 minutes.

The Eisenhower Executive Office Building, which houses White House staff, was evacuated.

The fire started in the suite of ceremonial offices of Vice President Dick Cheney. A White House spokesman said the vice president was across the way in the White House with President Bush at the time of the fire.

President Bush and Vice President Cheney later greeted fire fighters and Secret Service personnel on the scene.