Natalee Case Discussion #705 12/18 - 12/20/07

[msmarple]

******* - the Diario 12/18 article is the one I just posted.

Maybe 12/18 was the day that Diario didn't get its online edition up until very late in the day - I know that happened one day recently - and that may be why there was some confusion about "tomorrow" ... by the time I saw it, "tomorrow" was "yesterday" 

[Dihannah1]

I wonder if one could get signatures from the public to send along with a  letter to our congress people.

Something has got to be done soon and I  hope someone in power steps up to the plate for Natalee. This has gone on way to long!


http://www.PetitionOnline.com/justnat/
Eugene Bernat, justicespatriot@gmail.com

Good evening Monkeys!  I just sent this petition to all my friends and family and created a thread on CourtTv with the link!
There is currently 423 signatures!   Please get the word out!

[Silverfox]

Aruba! You have an infestation of RATS! 

To clear your name you need to clean it up!  Just connect the dots and and solve Nat's case and bring ALL those who may be responsible to justice and allow Nat to go home, right?

[Anna]

"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." - Leo Tolstoy


I really love that quote.  And nothing more complex than a Russian novel.


Goodnight, all.

.

[msmarple]

http://www.petitiononline.com/justnat/

Here is the wording of the petition. Note that this petition is addressed to the Government of Aruba - not US government officials.

To:  The Government of Aruba

Through the natural course of human history, government has been imposed upon the people; on rare occasions, government has arisen from the people. Legitimate democracy for better or worse is reflective of the total sentiment of the people who elect the government. Aruba contains many of the qualities of a democratic government; as such, the current government is reflective of the sentiment of the people of Aruba.

To expect perfection in anything created by human beings is irrational, because perfection cannot be attained. Although, we may conceive of perfection it can never exist; all things must be measured upon conceived perfection and that which is closer to perfection must be allowed to prevail. All governments have a responsibility to seek justice for the victims of crime and their families; the truth is a precondition for justice. The very essence of humanity requires that we do not demand perfection, but does require we demand transparency, integrity and fairness. Furthermore, all victims and their families are entitled to compassion and a maximum use of all appropriate resources to obtain justice.

As to the abduction of Natalee Holloway and the response of Aruba, we affirm the following:

1. We support Dave Holloway and Beth Twitty in pursuing justice for Natalee Holloway.

2. Natalee Holloway is an honor student with a full scholarship for her undergraduate studies and medical school from the University of Alabama. There is no evidence she ever in any form consumed an illegal drug. There is no evidence she ever consumed an alcoholic beverage in violation of the law. There is no evidence that she was drinking in an irresponsible manner on May 29, 2005 or any other date. There is no evidence she ever engaged in any form of consensual sexual activity.

3. Natalee Holloway is the victim of criminal acts as committed by members of the local population of Aruba.

4. Both representatives of Aruba's government and citizens thereof have attacked Natalee Holloway's character without evidence to support their claims (e.g., she used drugs). We utterly condemn all those who have attacked Natalee's character. Furthermore, we utterly condemn the Aruban people who protested for the Kalpoes and Van der Sloots, against the media, Beth Twitty or in any other way expressed negative sentiments about her and her allies.

5. Recognizing a full and proper investigation requires the raising of uncomfortable questions of victims and their families we affirm, however, we condemn all attacks upon the family and friends of Natalee Holloway.

6. The primary investigation as conducted by Aruban Law Enforcement has been one of the most unprofessional ever witnessed. This can be explained by both the lack of experience and rampant corruption.

7. Aruba prioritized promoting the alleged safety of Aruba over Natalee Holloway’s abduction.

8. No American or citizen of any nation should travel to the island of Aruba until such time as a full independent investigation (i.e., not conducted by Arubans) of the Aruban government’s response to Natalee Holloway’s abduction is completed, and anyone found to have committed violations of law or their duty are held to account.

9. We acknowledge that Arubans have cause to fear their government and as such may not be willing to provide pertinent information to investigators. However, we condemn those individuals for not using alternative methods. Furthermore, we remind you that in every tyranny there are those that rise to the challenge even at the risk of personal loss.

10. Many Arubans have embraced the suspects who have lied repeatedly including accusing two knowingly innocent black men, all the while mercilessly attacking the victim and her family. This is the most regrettable and offensive act outside of the crime itself making any such supporter an enabler of further evil by the self professed liars.

The government and people of Aruba independently hold the key to push themselves away from the abyss of destruction. Natalee Holloway's family did not begin this and cannot cease without committing injustice. Only justice can end this confrontation and that is in the power of the Aruban people.

We demand the government and people of Aruba cease and desist of their current investigation and slander campaigns. The government of Aruba shall relinquish all aspects of the investigation into the abduction of Natalee Holloway to Holland and United States authorities and refusal to comply shall constitute another act of injustice by the government and people of Aruba, requiring further retaliatory attacks upon Aruba.


Sincerely,

The Undersigned

[Dihannah1]

http://www.petitiononline.com/justnat/

Here is the wording of the petition. Note that this petition is addressed to the Government of Aruba - not US government officials.

To:  The Government of Aruba

Through the natural course of human history, government has been imposed upon the people; on rare occasions, government has arisen from the people. Legitimate democracy for better or worse is reflective of the total sentiment of the people who elect the government. Aruba contains many of the qualities of a democratic government; as such, the current government is reflective of the sentiment of the people of Aruba.

To expect perfection in anything created by human beings is irrational, because perfection cannot be attained. Although, we may conceive of perfection it can never exist; all things must be measured upon conceived perfection and that which is closer to perfection must be allowed to prevail. All governments have a responsibility to seek justice for the victims of crime and their families; the truth is a precondition for justice. The very essence of humanity requires that we do not demand perfection, but does require we demand transparency, integrity and fairness. Furthermore, all victims and their families are entitled to compassion and a maximum use of all appropriate resources to obtain justice.

As to the abduction of Natalee Holloway and the response of Aruba, we affirm the following:

1. We support Dave Holloway and Beth Twitty in pursuing justice for Natalee Holloway.

2. Natalee Holloway is an honor student with a full scholarship for her undergraduate studies and medical school from the University of Alabama. There is no evidence she ever in any form consumed an illegal drug. There is no evidence she ever consumed an alcoholic beverage in violation of the law. There is no evidence that she was drinking in an irresponsible manner on May 29, 2005 or any other date. There is no evidence she ever engaged in any form of consensual sexual activity.

3. Natalee Holloway is the victim of criminal acts as committed by members of the local population of Aruba.

4. Both representatives of Aruba's government and citizens thereof have attacked Natalee Holloway's character without evidence to support their claims (e.g., she used drugs). We utterly condemn all those who have attacked Natalee's character. Furthermore, we utterly condemn the Aruban people who protested for the Kalpoes and Van der Sloots, against the media, Beth Twitty or in any other way expressed negative sentiments about her and her allies.

5. Recognizing a full and proper investigation requires the raising of uncomfortable questions of victims and their families we affirm, however, we condemn all attacks upon the family and friends of Natalee Holloway.

6. The primary investigation as conducted by Aruban Law Enforcement has been one of the most unprofessional ever witnessed. This can be explained by both the lack of experience and rampant corruption.

7. Aruba prioritized promoting the alleged safety of Aruba over Natalee Holloway’s abduction.

8. No American or citizen of any nation should travel to the island of Aruba until such time as a full independent investigation (i.e., not conducted by Arubans) of the Aruban government’s response to Natalee Holloway’s abduction is completed, and anyone found to have committed violations of law or their duty are held to account.

9. We acknowledge that Arubans have cause to fear their government and as such may not be willing to provide pertinent information to investigators. However, we condemn those individuals for not using alternative methods. Furthermore, we remind you that in every tyranny there are those that rise to the challenge even at the risk of personal loss.

10. Many Arubans have embraced the suspects who have lied repeatedly including accusing two knowingly innocent black men, all the while mercilessly attacking the victim and her family. This is the most regrettable and offensive act outside of the crime itself making any such supporter an enabler of further evil by the self professed liars.

The government and people of Aruba independently hold the key to push themselves away from the abyss of destruction. Natalee Holloway's family did not begin this and cannot cease without committing injustice. Only justice can end this confrontation and that is in the power of the Aruban people.

We demand the government and people of Aruba cease and desist of their current investigation and slander campaigns. The government of Aruba shall relinquish all aspects of the investigation into the abduction of Natalee Holloway to Holland and United States authorities and refusal to comply shall constitute another act of injustice by the government and people of Aruba, requiring further retaliatory attacks upon Aruba.


Sincerely,

The Undersigned

MsMarple,  I figured that out after I sent it out to everybody.  But it could be forwarded to our govt. just for them to see the urgency of this case, correct?   

[NYC_lover]

Does someone know what 'Buon' is? I think it is Spanish, but what is the translating?
Thanks

[hotping]

Buon Natale is  I Believe French for Merry Christmas......But I 'm wondering if You are meaning buillion which is a broth type drink(food) that alot of Doctors recommend to someone when they are sick.....and don't really feel like eating solid foods.

[Tylergal]

joyeux Noël (Merry Christmas a la Francais).  Buon Natale (I think) is "good" Christmas in Italian.  Help me here, those of you who are Italian.  I know you are here! 

[Tylergal]

Does someone know what 'Buon' is? I think it is Spanish, but what is the translating?
Thanks

In what context is it used?

[sirensong]

I get that "Buon" is Italian for "good"

[NYC_lover]

Buon Natale is  I Believe French for Merry Christmas......But I 'm wondering if You are meaning buillion which is a broth type drink(food) that alot of Doctors recommend to someone when they are sick.....and don't really feel like eating solid foods.

I get that "Buon" is Italian for "good"

Does someone know what 'Buon' is? I think it is Spanish, but what is the translating?
Thanks

In what context is it used? I was see on the internet, buon natale. I want gladly to know what it is.

joyeux Noël (Merry Christmas a la Francais).  Buon Natale (I think) is "good" Christmas in Italian.  Help me here, those of you who are Italian.  I know you are here! 

Ok Buon Natale meant Merry Christmas in France or Italian. I just know Ciao = Bye and few another words in Italian and Merci in France. Thanks... Hotping, Sirensong and Tylergal....

[hotping]

Buon Natale is  I Believe French for Merry Christmas......But I 'm wondering if You are meaning buillion which is a broth type drink(food) that alot of Doctors recommend to someone when they are sick.....and don't really feel like eating solid foods.

I get that "Buon" is Italian for "good"

Does someone know what 'Buon' is? I think it is Spanish, but what is the translating?
Thanks

In what context is it used? I was see on the internet, buon natale. I want gladly to know what it is.

joyeux Noël (Merry Christmas a la Francais).  Buon Natale (I think) is "good" Christmas in Italian.  Help me here, those of you who are Italian.  I know you are here! 

Ok Buon Natale meant Merry Christmas in France or Italian. I just know Ciao = Bye and few another words in Italian and Merci in France. Thanks... Hotping, Sirensong and Tylergal....
You're Welcome! Good Night Monkeys!

[MumInOhio]

Lala's..... seems you and I were visiting the same sites last night.
Lorenzo and Max, it appears were questioned on June 16th. Nothing in the Dr Phil stuff. Makes one wonder!

[JA]

Kind of O/T... but I needed some help.

Klaas
Do you remember a few months ago there was a Lorenzo discussion going on and I said something about Lorenzo was not questioned until June 28 and someone found a news report or something that talked about him being questioned earlier?  If you or anyone else knows how to find that, please, pretty please post it in the Shango thread for me.  I still don't know how to narrow a search down to just a few posts in order to find that.  TIA.

You can find alot of the post's in that Lorenzo thread that show he was definetly questioned the 16th as well. I have my suspicions that he was questioned the very first week based on what several Arubans have said. Not exactly sure how people came up with the 19th that he was questioned as maybee they meant the 16th.

I think he was questioned the next day after Steve Croes arrest.  So that makes it around the 16th.  Thanks for reminding me about that thread.  Also, has this person ever been discussed before? I don't think I know who this is?  Maybe the person that Deepak asked for the alibi?  I don't have a clue. 

 Name/Title/Description: Interview with Wendy Terry
Date: 24 August 2005
Pages: 2
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Dallas, Texas
Writer/Initiator: SA J. Brooke Donahue

 Name/Title: Chat session review
Date: 30 August /2005
Pages: 6
File 4:163a-bb-1426
Writer/Initiator: SA William T. Clauss 2
Description: internet chat between Deepak Kalpoe and Wendy Terry
Location: Dallas, Texas

For what it is worth, there was a Terry that used to come into the chat room here all the time the summer of 2005.  I used you go in there frequently until the board stared having all those problems.  She used to tell us that she talked to Deepak all the time and we weren't sure if we believed her, but she used to say he was innocent as far as her murder, but wouldn't give us much more than that.  Then as the weeks went by, she stated that she wasn't sure if he was telling her the whole truth.  Once she claimed she was disappointed with him.  If we pushed too ahrd for more info she would log off. So, if this Wendy Terry does know something, she has been here, but rarely came on this forum, usually just the chat room.  She would just go by Terry, because we weren't sure at one point if she was a he or a she going by the log-in name.  I'm sure others must remember her, she was on frequently if it is the same person.

[greeneyedlady]

From RU:

Heli Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:23 am   
Dateline NBC Onboard Persistence

John Silvetti's sister posting as LegallyLex confirms that a crew from
Dateline NBC is onboard Persistence.

It would appear they've bought exclusive rights to this story, including
onboard videography of the ocean search.

LL claims with all those people on board, including Dateline, it's highly
unlikely any "monkey business" will occur.  Actually what
she really said is she doubts anything could be planted. 

[MuffyBee]

Kind of O/T... but I needed some help.

Klaas
Do you remember a few months ago there was a Lorenzo discussion going on and I said something about Lorenzo was not questioned until June 28 and someone found a news report or something that talked about him being questioned earlier?  If you or anyone else knows how to find that, please, pretty please post it in the Shango thread for me.  I still don't know how to narrow a search down to just a few posts in order to find that.  TIA.

You can find alot of the post's in that Lorenzo thread that show he was definetly questioned the 16th as well. I have my suspicions that he was questioned the very first week based on what several Arubans have said. Not exactly sure how people came up with the 19th that he was questioned as maybee they meant the 16th.

I think he was questioned the next day after Steve Croes arrest.  So that makes it around the 16th.  Thanks for reminding me about that thread.  Also, has this person ever been discussed before? I don't think I know who this is?  Maybe the person that Deepak asked for the alibi?  I don't have a clue. 

 Name/Title/Description: Interview with Wendy Terry
Date: 24 August 2005
Pages: 2
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Dallas, Texas
Writer/Initiator: SA J. Brooke Donahue

 Name/Title: Chat session review
Date: 30 August /2005
Pages: 6
File 4:163a-bb-1426
Writer/Initiator: SA William T. Clauss 2
Description: internet chat between Deepak Kalpoe and Wendy Terry
Location: Dallas, Texas

For what it is worth, there was a Terry that used to come into the chat room here all the time the summer of 2005.  I used you go in there frequently until the board stared having all those problems.  She used to tell us that she talked to Deepak all the time and we weren't sure if we believed her, but she used to say he was innocent as far as her murder, but wouldn't give us much more than that.  Then as the weeks went by, she stated that she wasn't sure if he was telling her the whole truth.  Once she claimed she was disappointed with him.  If we pushed too ahrd for more info she would log off. So, if this Wendy Terry does know something, she has been here, but rarely came on this forum, usually just the chat room.  She would just go by Terry, because we weren't sure at one point if she was a he or a she going by the log-in name.  I'm sure others must remember her, she was on frequently if it is the same person.

JA ~  I remember that poster and those chats too.  And I think that poster, under a similiar name has posted a couple of times  here at SM. When Dugga was working with the new software, there was a chat feature that we got to test and use for a while, and I think the poster you speak of came on to  that chat.  I got a chat pm from that poster, asking if I remembered them from the old chat...

[MumInOhio]

Kind of O/T... but I needed some help.

Klaas
Do you remember a few months ago there was a Lorenzo discussion going on and I said something about Lorenzo was not questioned until June 28 and someone found a news report or something that talked about him being questioned earlier?  If you or anyone else knows how to find that, please, pretty please post it in the Shango thread for me.  I still don't know how to narrow a search down to just a few posts in order to find that.  TIA.

You can find alot of the post's in that Lorenzo thread that show he was definetly questioned the 16th as well. I have my suspicions that he was questioned the very first week based on what several Arubans have said. Not exactly sure how people came up with the 19th that he was questioned as maybee they meant the 16th.

I think he was questioned the next day after Steve Croes arrest.  So that makes it around the 16th.  Thanks for reminding me about that thread.  Also, has this person ever been discussed before? I don't think I know who this is?  Maybe the person that Deepak asked for the alibi?  I don't have a clue. 

 Name/Title/Description: Interview with Wendy Terry
Date: 24 August 2005
Pages: 2
File #: 163a-bb-1426
Location: Dallas, Texas
Writer/Initiator: SA J. Brooke Donahue

 Name/Title: Chat session review
Date: 30 August /2005
Pages: 6
File 4:163a-bb-1426
Writer/Initiator: SA William T. Clauss 2
Description: internet chat between Deepak Kalpoe and Wendy Terry
Location: Dallas, Texas

For what it is worth, there was a Terry that used to come into the chat room here all the time the summer of 2005.  I used you go in there frequently until the board stared having all those problems.  She used to tell us that she talked to Deepak all the time and we weren't sure if we believed her, but she used to say he was innocent as far as her murder, but wouldn't give us much more than that.  Then as the weeks went by, she stated that she wasn't sure if he was telling her the whole truth.  Once she claimed she was disappointed with him.  If we pushed too ahrd for more info she would log off. So, if this Wendy Terry does know something, she has been here, but rarely came on this forum, usually just the chat room.  She would just go by Terry, because we weren't sure at one point if she was a he or a she going by the log-in name.  I'm sure others must remember her, she was on frequently if it is the same person.

JA ~  I remember that poster and those chats too.  And I think that poster, under a similiar name has posted a couple of times  here at SM. When Dugga was working with the new software, there was a chat feature that we got to test and use for a while, and I think the poster you speak of came on to  that chat.  I got a chat pm from that poster, asking if I remembered them from the old chat...

Are you pretty sure it was just 'Terry', MuffyBee? TIA

[Lala'sMom]

Morning monkeys.  I have fresh coffee.  Cream or sugar?  Yes, I made blueberry scones also.  My treat to everyone  this morning.

[Dayhiker]

WHAT DOES EVERYONE EXPECT HANS MOS TO SAY TODAY?

Mild slap on Aruba Tourism's wrist? Admission of case being mishandled early on? Any name calling? Or is he just going to gloss over all the corruption that took place in the case?

Thoughts?