Natalee Case Discussion #706 12/20 -

[Silverfox]

Mos had mad it possible for us to now see the real infestation that calls itself Aruba...Not Camelot -- but hell...



The same judge that lets Joran go in 2005 repeats his action in 2007



"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

[MumInOhio]

I woke up with 2 thoughts about what we learned yesterday: One good, and One bad.

First, "the fact the girl is dead" statement was retrieved from a chat session on a hard drive, that in 2005 was not technically retrievable. That means that the hard drive had to be secured from the suspect's home on that initial search, right? I don't recall the Dutch removing anything during their more recent investigation. Am I right about this?

If I am right, then the timeframe of when the chat took place is locked in: between the time she disappeared and the hard drive was removed from the home.

Second; JQK, Beth, and Dave spoke with Mos for 4 hours and came away saying he had nothing new. Either Mos didn't tell them what he had, or this seemingly compelling evidence that appears new isn't what it has been portrayed to be in that press conference.

Morning CBB!!
My understanding is that Beth and John asked Mos alot of questions and he would not give them any answers. It is also my understanding, that Beth and Dave didn't even have the information Mos announced yesturday in the press conference!!! Once again, the press knew the information before the Family did. To make matters even worse, because it was in Dutch, the Family was scrambling for the information like we were!!! Waiting and watching for it to be translated to even know what Mos said!!! How is that for yet another stab in the back!!!

Aruba appears a little too cocky in all of this. They don't even seem concerned that any of this that has been made known will harm their tourism.

I am not at all familiar with the politics in that region, other than Chavez, and am wondering if there is any reason for them to feel our government is going to stay low key on this. Or is it about the American hotel interests, the drug traffickers and money laundering. Did they catch our agencies doing something they shouldn't have been doing back in 2005.

They are thumbing ther nose at us for sure, just wonder how they can afford to be that arrogant!

[Tylergal]

Ok I know your all in bed, But I am just now listening to Dana's show with Jug and Now Listening to Red
I had a thought dont know if this has ever been thrown out there
But.. When Beth and Jug arrived at Sloots the first time
It was said and confirmed with plate number of Deepaks car behind gate.. Have you guys entertained the thought that When the family arrived that all the boys were there and Paul called Joran on cell
Joran told him that He was at casino when in fact he was home
and when Paul took off to run with everyone to casino then the boys quickly went and hid Natalee somewhere returned back at the home
when Paul called again and said where are you and Joran said he was back at home and Like Jug said they were sweaty and crap..

hmmmm just food for thought

The talk of the gym bag and the shoes that day makes me think he was taking some "work clothes" with him to do a real "nasty" chore he had been sent to do.  He was disposing of Natalee during the time Twittys were in the air from Birmingham to Aruba.  Phones were busy on the island taking care that all was done before Natalee's family arrived. 

[crazybabyborg]

this is crazy,

If someone said within 5 hours of Natalee leaving the BAR around 1:00 AM and we add 5 hours to that, then we have 6:00 am where someone is saying "the girl is dead"

then this is HUGE. this breaks the case wide open - (not that we didnt already know this case is broken wide open) but you know what i mean

in aruba - up is DOWN - left is right

hmmmmmmm..wonder what stupid FRANKENGRETA thinks now?  is she still inclined
to beleive KILLERJORAN now...


gawsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


 

Robots, I'm not sure that our information is that the statement, "The Fact the girl is dead is not good" was made within 5 hours; I think the phone call to the girl who knew something was wrong and was told it couldn't be discussed on the phone was made within those hours. I misunderstood this last night at first and thought the hours referred to the chat statement as well.

But, it does appear that the statement was made shortly after the disappearance and that the hard drive was retrieved during the first search, and you're right, that's huge!

[ldstlou]

I woke up with 2 thoughts about what we learned yesterday: One good, and One bad.

First, "the fact the girl is dead" statement was retrieved from a chat session on a hard drive, that in 2005 was not technically retrievable. That means that the hard drive had to be secured from the suspect's home on that initial search, right? I don't recall the Dutch removing anything during their more recent investigation. Am I right about this?

If I am right, then the timeframe of when the chat took place is locked in: between the time she disappeared and the hard drive was removed from the home.

Second; JQK, Beth, and Dave spoke with Mos for 4 hours and came away saying he had nothing new. Either Mos didn't tell them what he had, or this seemingly compelling evidence that appears new isn't what it has been portrayed to be in that press conference.

Morning CBB!!
My understanding is that Beth and John asked Mos alot of questions and he would not give them any answers. It is also my understanding, that Beth and Dave didn't even have the information Mos announced yesturday in the press conference!!! Once again, the press knew the information before the Family did. To make matters even worse, because it was in Dutch, the Family was scrambling for the information like we were!!! Waiting and watching for it to be translated to even know what Mos said!!! How is that for yet another stab in the back!!!

Aruba appears a little too cocky in all of this. They don't even seem concerned that any of this that has been made known will harm their tourism.

I am not at all familiar with the politics in that region, other than Chavez, and am wondering if there is any reason for them to feel our government is going to stay low key on this. Or is it about the American hotel interests, the drug traffickers and money laundering. Did they catch our agencies doing something they shouldn't have been doing back in 2005.

They are thumbing ther nose at us for sure, just wonder how they can afford to be that arrogant!

I agree Mum. And Jug said last night that their timing was on purpose. Thanksgiving they are arresting the boys and calling Beth to Aruba. The day the search begins they drop the case. It is all done imho, to have the most devastating affects psychologocally on the Family.

[Tylergal]

Tylergal,

Do you remember the post about the purple girl?  I have forgotten the details but that was another creepy one.

Anna, I remember the purple girl being at the VDS house and some of Joran's friends on My Space asking "What was that purple girl doing at your house on Monday?" Or something to that affect, saying she was in the bathroom at the VDS house and had turned purple.

[Tylergal]

Wanna say HI and  Night. Been trying to keep caught up when  I can.   
I have issues I have to deal with myself..

Prayers  go out for the water search.. Have not been posting much.. but don't mean I dont care.
  Goodnight all............ 

Angie, I hope Santa will make you well, bring you a lot of happiness and family togetherness for Christmas.  It is good seeing you here.  Sorry to hear you are having issues.  I hope that stomach thing goes away soon.

[robots]

this is crazy,

If someone said within 5 hours of Natalee leaving the BAR around 1:00 AM and we add 5 hours to that, then we have 6:00 am where someone is saying "the girl is dead"

then this is HUGE. this breaks the case wide open - (not that we didnt already know this case is broken wide open) but you know what i mean

in aruba - up is DOWN - left is right

hmmmmmmm..wonder what stupid FRANKENGRETA thinks now?  is she still inclined
to beleive KILLERJORAN now...


gawsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


 

Robots, I'm not sure that our information is that the statement, "The Fact the girl is dead is not good" was made within 5 hours; I think the phone call to the girl who knew something was wrong and was told it couldn't be discussed on the phone was made within those hours. I misunderstood this last night at first and thought the hours referred to the chat statement as well.

But, it does appear that the statement was made shortly after the disappearance and that the hard drive was retrieved during the first search, and you're right, that's huge!

yes, thank you
im not sure we know all yet concerning this, but if im correct
this is GIGANTIC

ATTENTION   ***JOE TACO DIARREAOFTHE MOUTH***
and you cant spin it any other way 

[Tylergal]

Dihannah, I hope you are right and Jossy has something more than we know about.  I think the search will find Natalee if she was placed in the areas where they are looking, just not sure she was or not.

Some days it's hard to remain hopeful for a just solution when no one in Aruba seems to want one.  I agree that Mos has tried but he is faced with an array of obstacles beyond his control.

I think Aruba just wants the Americans to go away and let them get back to business as usual.  We have messed up their little drug/sex/gambling playhouse.  How's the porn business doing when there are so many inspectors on the island?  Have to worry about who they are selling drugs to since it might be an American waiting to pounce to the DEA and all their cruise ships bypassing Aruba so they cannot cajole Americans into buying their wares, their drugs, or worse yet, steal from them.  Where have all the big spenders gone?  They went the way of Natalee.

[Nut44x4]

Mum.....they can afford to be that arrogant because of this.....
thanks for the pix Silverfox

[Tylergal]

It sounds as if they tried to wipe a hard drive. The ALE wasn't able to retrieve the info because it wasn't a something that was in their area of expertise ( like eating a donut ) and the KLPD was able to retrieve the deleted messages.
All those times they were at Joran's in the first week, do you think they were viewing Satish's trip photos or doing the computer work in the dining room, while the entire family was in the house ?

I saw 2 FBI agents on Fox one morning in June 2005 or July 2005 who said they had tried to scrub their hard drives and that they did not doubt the phone calls were being made from the same location, sitting in the same car, trying to set up an alibi. 

[Tylergal]

i havent posted in 2 years but follow regularly. i am a PI in oklahoma.

i noticed Jug mentioned "incinerator".  Do any of the old timers remember something about a murder/killing in Aruba right after Natalies disappearance involving someone working at an incinerator business?  Can Red or someone ask Josy?

This has always been a bother in the back of my mind.  They could have had her body disposed in an incinerator and then murdered the person so they could never reveal/testify. 

Anyone else remember this? 

kat

Yes...

HEYNINGEN, Rene Michel van   – partially decapitated man found at cemetery on 6-18-05. Rumored to run the incinerator at the Refinery. It is also reported that he ran the incinerator at Oduber Hospital.  Yesenia Castillo, his wife(?) is reportedly being held in KIA in conjunction with his murder.

i wonder if any ALE or anyone else investigated this at a granular level.  It has just always bothered me.  How convenient that someone who runs an incinerator was killed so timely.  His wife being held may be just the dirty ALE at work in the coverup.  Who knows. The fact her body has never been found and that J2K are so smug reeks that they feel safe that her body was well disposed of...especially with paulus orchestrating the master coverup (no body no crime).  Well, we'll see if they find anything in the ocean. 

Thanks for updating me on this part.

kat

well,  i might as well get it all out.  the most bothersome things to me have always been the incinerator murder, and the timely furniture truck at paulus' house and the pool work.  one of these days his sweat glands will clog up and hopefully he will blow up into pieces! that man is guilty as sin........IMO

Kat,
Since you brought it up. I've been keeping my opinion on this subject to myself but.....
I've always thought the same. The incinerator operator elimination, along with what paulus did not say, and the fact the ocean search has not been hampered by Aruba's judge club, is to me an indication that sadly there is no trace.
paulus did not say "if they can't find a body". He said "if there is no body".
I do hope I'm wrong on this.

Ado

I think many of us thought the same, but it was just too horrific to linger on too long.  I always felt the suspicion of the beheaded man who happened to work in an area of incineration and also at the hospital and that Paulus was director of the QC Committee at the hospital and would have know that.  Perhaps this man was considered a threat and/or was blackmailing them.

[MumInOhio]

Mum.....they can afford to be that arrogant because of this.....
thanks for the pix Silverfox

LOL...would be really nice if Siverfox would add some names to all those numbers!

[Tylergal]

I woke up with 2 thoughts about what we learned yesterday: One good, and One bad.

First, "the fact the girl is dead" statement was retrieved from a chat session on a hard drive, that in 2005 was not technically retrievable. That means that the hard drive had to be secured from the suspect's home on that initial search, right? I don't recall the Dutch removing anything during their more recent investigation. Am I right about this?

If I am right, then the timeframe of when the chat took place is locked in: between the time she disappeared and the hard drive was removed from the home.

Second; JQK, Beth, and Dave spoke with Mos for 4 hours and came away saying he had nothing new. Either Mos didn't tell them what he had, or this seemingly compelling evidence that appears new isn't what it has been portrayed to be in that press conference.

Wanted to add that the press conference also referred to "other chats occurring before May 30, 2005" so that would also point to the hard drive that was initially removed during the first search.

I had some of that saved from March 2005 when Charles Croes was concerned about them talking trash on the Aruba site where prospective tourists or tourists visited and he had concerned himself about that kind of talk going on at their website.  He had referred it to someone else, not sure who that was, but seems it was some Arends/Arenz/Arens (they all have the same name, just spell them a bit differently).  Then there was also a lady from the USA who during that spring before Natalee disappeared had canceled her children's trip to Aruba secondary to what she had read that these boys were doing to American tourists and there was the lady who said her daughter was from Aruba and worked on a cruise ship and that cruise ships hated to bring American girls to Aruba because of the PIMPS, because they were like a gang who did terrible things to tourists and ALE was either intimidated by them or turned a blind eye.

[Tylergal]

What time is the news conference with the Kalpoes?

Oh, I bet Dr. Phil is waiting with baited breath.    Can they really talk or will they have someone, as usual, speaking for them.

[I dont feel tardy]

I agree that Paulus sent everyone on a wild goose chase so the boys J2k could have more time to hide Nat and that furniture truck has always been bothersome..what was being delivered or what was being removed?

[Tylergal]

Mos had mad it possible for us to now see the real infestation that calls itself Aruba...Not Camelot -- but hell...



The same judge that lets Joran go in 2005 repeats his action in 2007



"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

Fantastic graphic, SILVERFOX.  Thanks!  We need this on the front page with an article.

[Nut44x4]

Tourism is just their 'Cover' 

[robots]

as i have said

these creeps drug them, rape them, beat them, video them and they usually survive
but do not remember anything about it because they were drugged

the girls are slapped around, tied up, gagged etc etc etc etc

THIS IS WHAT ARUBA does not want brought out into the OPEN.

ARUBA is a HELLHOLE

[Tylergal]

Tourism is just their 'Cover' 

Gambling, prostitution and drugs are where the big money is.  I think Spencer Bacchus' bill to stop online gambling was defeated.  That bill went to the House in February 2006 (I think, working from an old woman's memory here), but Shedegg and Jon Kyl were also in favor of such a bill but it  never made its way out of the house, if memory serves.