Natalee Case Discussion #706 12/20 -

[Tylergal]

Rudy Croes to me is the epitome of everything that is wrong about Aruba. And I assume that he would have to have the dirty hand in Aruba as he is the one who would have to be paid to be allowed to do illegal business in Aruba. That puts him in the bed with the drug lords, money launderers, pimps, pornographers, murderers, human traffickers, arms smugglers, etc. He has absolutely no background in law or legal training as he was awarded his post due to the fact that his Daddy created the current political party in power. He previously was employed as a lab technician. I am collecting a post with every allegation or fact that I can find about Rudy, and they are very telling of his nature. I understand that in 2006 he was even found to possess, if possible, 3 sex slaves from Columbia, so needless to say he has never shed a tear over the death of Natalee, unless she originally was meant for him. Anyway, I will post it soon, and all of you may be aware so I will apologize in advance if it is redundant.

But my point in advance is that in the Mathew case, there was a franchise for a telecommunication company that Mathew somehow was awarded, and he was stripped of that franchise due to his arrest for domestic abuse against his wife. She is a doctor of some sorts and she vehemently denies that it occurred. The three men mentioned most frequently as being the Arubans involved are Paulus Van Der Sloot, Ben Vonking, and the man who was able to keep Mathew in isolation and subjected to inhumane conditions and thus silence him, Rudy Croes. Rudy controls the police, jail, and the prosecutors office to a certain extent, and completely if you add Van Der Sloot and Vonking. In my opinion that same trio, the 3 Assketeers of Aruba simply reunited after a 1 year respite to now cover up this case. It explains why it has never seemed like an all Aruba or an all Dutch cover up, because it was accomplished by 3 sorry bastards, 1 from Aruba and and 2 Dutch.

And I have to think that Charles Croes became involved because it was him that received the telecommunication franchise after Mathew, a black, was arrested and stripped of the franchise. I feel as if he won the franchise as his wife is well educated and being one of only a few in Aruba, she wrote the best application, she just had the wrong color skin and the Aruban thugs stripped it from them.

  DIRTY HAND, WHAT I HAVE SAID ALL THE TIME ABOUT CROUES

CHARLES CROES, THE GENTLE POET ROMANTIC (?) WHO WAS AWARE OF THE PIMPS ACTIVITIES AS FAR BACK AS MARCH 2005

[Tylergal]

Nut4 posted:
Tourism is just their 'Cover' 

Nut,
I completely agree with this and that is why Aruba dares to be so arrogant with Americans.  They have long ago found more lucrative and easier ways to make money.  I have been saying this for over a year now but have not found much agreement.

If they have the money to launder, they can just show the tourist on paper.  They don't have to even exist.  That's what is keeping their room occupancy so high.  I would venture to guess there are any number of ghost tourists who will oddly enough pay their bills in cash which can then be deposited in the bank and become clean.

I always get a lecture about how I don't understand the hospitality industry and hotels, etc. but show me a set of books and I will show you how to cook them! 

If you have fifty tourists, just report 100 and deposit the dirty money as from the added fifty that do not even exist and voilà, clean money.  Then pay it to whomever it belongs for fake charges, etc.

If they truly, those in power, needed tourists, they would not be thumbing their noses and insulting their best customer.  They don't need REAL tourists at all, just the appearance of having them.  Thence the empty beaches while claiming a high occupancy rate.  Latin American drug money by the millions with each one getting just enough of a cut to get fat.

My opinion only but bet it would be interesting to take a peek into some of those hotel rooms and see if they are actually occupied.

Why else would they keep on and on and on spitting in our faces when we have done absolutely nothing wrong to them?  Because they can.  And those PTB know it. 

They are still the Pirates of the Caribbean, just gone high tech.

Only My Humble Opinion.

.

I totally agree and that is why I was thrilled about the Spencer Bacchus bill, it was one way of getting at the gambling but then there are those here who think Bacchus has done nothing, but they are not looking at the overall picture.  I am sure Jug understands it, however.

There is a huge amount of money made by Arubans on illegal activities, but it only goes into private bank accounts of a few individuals and is not taxed, so the country of Aruba cannot provide for its services without tourism and mostly without money from Holland. It seems like in 2006 Rudy Croes was working very hard and sweating because Holland wasn't sure if they were going to give them the money. I will try and find the details.

The crooks only want to control Aruba, not provide for the services that the Aruban people need such as streets, sewer, police, etc.

Did you see the article posted here a few days ago that stated the Arubans were so afraid of Bush shutting down their porn industry and trying to make it illegal, that they had hired all these PR/legal people from the USA to combat that should Bush try to stop their illegal activities when he went into office.  Have they any idea that Bush has no control over Aruba?  What are they saying, since we know that is not true?  There is some method to their madness.  I just cannot figure out their lies.  Not crooked enough, I guess.

[Lala'sMom]

Rudy Croes to me is the epitome of everything that is wrong about Aruba. And I assume that he would have to have the dirty hand in Aruba as he is the one who would have to be paid to be allowed to do illegal business in Aruba. That puts him in the bed with the drug lords, money launderers, pimps, pornographers, murderers, human traffickers, arms smugglers, etc. He has absolutely no background in law or legal training as he was awarded his post due to the fact that his Daddy created the current political party in power. He previously was employed as a lab technician. I am collecting a post with every allegation or fact that I can find about Rudy, and they are very telling of his nature. I understand that in 2006 he was even found to possess, if possible, 3 sex slaves from Columbia, so needless to say he has never shed a tear over the death of Natalee, unless she originally was meant for him. Anyway, I will post it soon, and all of you may be aware so I will apologize in advance if it is redundant.

But my point in advance is that in the Mathew case, there was a franchise for a telecommunication company that Mathew somehow was awarded, and he was stripped of that franchise due to his arrest for domestic abuse against his wife. She is a doctor of some sorts and she vehemently denies that it occurred. The three men mentioned most frequently as being the Arubans involved are Paulus Van Der Sloot, Ben Vonking, and the man who was able to keep Mathew in isolation and subjected to inhumane conditions and thus silence him, Rudy Croes. Rudy controls the police, jail, and the prosecutors office to a certain extent, and completely if you add Van Der Sloot and Vonking. In my opinion that same trio, the 3 Assketeers of Aruba simply reunited after a 1 year respite to now cover up this case. It explains why it has never seemed like an all Aruba or an all Dutch cover up, because it was accomplished by 3 sorry bastards, 1 from Aruba and and 2 Dutch.

And I have to think that Charles Croes became involved because it was him that received the telecommunication franchise after Mathew, a black, was arrested and stripped of the franchise. I feel as if he won the franchise as his wife is well educated and being one of only a few in Aruba, she wrote the best application, she just had the wrong color skin and the Aruban thugs stripped it from them.

  DIRTY HAND, WHAT I HAVE SAID ALL THE TIME ABOUT CROUES

CHARLES CROES, THE GENTLE POET ROMANTIC (?) WHO WAS AWARE OF THE PIMPS ACTIVITIES AS FAR BACK AS MARCH 2005

Also, remember the DEA agent that met Beth and Jug that night knew just where to turn to find out what they wanted to know.

[private eye]

As long as a industry is legal then the Aruban government can tax it, so even if it is pornography, it is money for Aruba. It is the illegal activities that are so immensely profitable, and those monies go to the people in power who are paid to not notice and the crooks themselves, not Aruba. That is why I always am critical of the Arubans. They, in exchange for chump change which is what the man on the street gets in Aruba for their silence, have become partners. That and the fear of retaliation. I am certain they have neighbors who have dared to do right only to either be beheaded, or to simply vanish. And I know they have seen many many tourist who have been killed made to vanish by some committee with a specific protocol to follow. The performance in Natalee's disappearance suggests that this has been done so much that they have it down to a science. I think potential tourists who would never venture to the wilds of Venezuela or Columbia never realized that just across the creek, were the very lands and people whom they should fear, a very violent, criminal world. It is as if a curtain was pulled and the tourist sat on one side and the real Aruba sat on the other side.

[private eye]

The involvement of Croes was by accident I think because Croes only involvement began since Beth and Jug needed a phone, he met with them, listened and was probably sincerely going to help until he learned the Van Der Sloots were involved. He obviously was friends, involved with, or at least obligated to Paulus because of possibly the phone company that Rudy, Vonking and Van Der Sloot helped him get, and thus his relationship which began as one of helping Beth evolved into a relationship where he worked against Beth. I think Julia and Croes both originally were going to help, and then realized the whos and then had to double cross Beth. Most people would help a Mother in tears look for her daughter, only this time they couldn't. Their obligation was to protect another persons child

[Lala'sMom]

The involvement of Croes was by accident I think because Croes only involvement began since Beth and Jug needed a phone, he met with them, listened and was probably sincerely going to help until he learned the Van Der Sloots were involved. He obviously was friends, involved with, or at least obligated to Paulus because of possibly the phone company that Rudy, Vonking and Van Der Sloot helped him get, and thus his relationship which began as one of helping Beth evolved into a relationship where he worked against Beth. I think Julia and Croes both originally were going to help, and then realized the whos and then had to double cross Beth. Most people would help a Mother in tears look for her daughter, only this time they couldn't. Their obligation was to protect another persons child

I think you give Julia way too much credit.  Sorry.

[katclose]

I agree and always have that the body was disposed of in the crematorium. It is extremely difficult to hide a body under water. For one reason or another, they always seem to break loose and float back to shore. Paulus seems absolutely confident that the body isn't just hid, it is gone, and burning it would be the way to accomplish that. I think they have probably cleaned up a lot of deaths in Aruba in the past leaving no trail, and I think burning was the solution. Clothing, identification, etc. would all vanish without a trace. I think this time th operator got nervous, had been told she was an accident victim, and when all the pressure arrived got nervous and really didn't want to be a part of this, so they killed him, and did so in a manner that the drug lords do to silence the masses, they beheaded him and dumped him in plain sight of the people of Aruba. This guy had a decent job at the refinery, and in addition operated the crematorium, so he wasn't some piece of trash or some native from South America who drifted into Aruba, as they portrayed him when it happened. And he and Paulus obviously knew each other since they both did work for the same hospital. I am glad to see an interest in this theory, so that I don't feel all alone imagining that such evil could be involved here.

private eye - i am glad i am not alone in my theory also - this whole incinerator operator death has had my radar blazing since get go.  Two other things are blaring:  Paulus' pool work and Paulus' furniture delivery.  I wonder how many times Paulus has had furniture delivered or pool concrete work done in the 3 years prior to Natalie's death?  I would venture to say "nadda".  It is so glaringly obvious he had pool work done and furniture delivered as part of his coverup.  And he doesn't worry about finding a body because i believe he had it burned.  That's why they are all so smug and going on about their lives in such a self assured way.  I know this is a sick thought, but i wish someone would drug Paulus and J2K and ask them questions while drugged in which they would reveal the truth - and record it to play for the world.  Jump 'em, drug 'em, and let them talk while under the influence.  Wish it could be done.

[private eye]

The involvement of Croes was by accident I think because Croes only involvement began since Beth and Jug needed a phone, he met with them, listened and was probably sincerely going to help until he learned the Van Der Sloots were involved. He obviously was friends, involved with, or at least obligated to Paulus because of possibly the phone company that Rudy, Vonking and Van Der Sloot helped him get, and thus his relationship which began as one of helping Beth evolved into a relationship where he worked against Beth. I think Julia and Croes both originally were going to help, and then realized the whos and then had to double cross Beth. Most people would help a Mother in tears look for her daughter, only this time they couldn't. Their obligation was to protect another persons child

I think you give Julia way too much credit.  Sorry.

I agree she is such a focking sloot that she is probably kin to Paulas:))))))) I hope that didn't offend you, but I depise that ho, and that is the kindest word for her I can find. Some crook's bitch who thinks she is something when she is pure white trash. And she comes by it honestly as she is the spitting image of her momma

[2NJSons_Mom]

The involvement of Croes was by accident I think because Croes only involvement began since Beth and Jug needed a phone, he met with them, listened and was probably sincerely going to help until he learned the Van Der Sloots were involved. He obviously was friends, involved with, or at least obligated to Paulus because of possibly the phone company that Rudy, Vonking and Van Der Sloot helped him get, and thus his relationship which began as one of helping Beth evolved into a relationship where he worked against Beth. I think Julia and Croes both originally were going to help, and then realized the whos and then had to double cross Beth. Most people would help a Mother in tears look for her daughter, only this time they couldn't. Their obligation was to protect another persons child

We know of Charles Croes business Digicel....do you have info that links Matthews loss of his franchise and Croes acquiring it?  This is news to me...not sure about others.  If I was able to pull up the business records, I would do so, just to compare dates, etc.

[private eye]

I agree and always have that the body was disposed of in the crematorium. It is extremely difficult to hide a body under water. For one reason or another, they always seem to break loose and float back to shore. Paulus seems absolutely confident that the body isn't just hid, it is gone, and burning it would be the way to accomplish that. I think they have probably cleaned up a lot of deaths in Aruba in the past leaving no trail, and I think burning was the solution. Clothing, identification, etc. would all vanish without a trace. I think this time th operator got nervous, had been told she was an accident victim, and when all the pressure arrived got nervous and really didn't want to be a part of this, so they killed him, and did so in a manner that the drug lords do to silence the masses, they beheaded him and dumped him in plain sight of the people of Aruba. This guy had a decent job at the refinery, and in addition operated the crematorium, so he wasn't some piece of trash or some native from South America who drifted into Aruba, as they portrayed him when it happened. And he and Paulus obviously knew each other since they both did work for the same hospital. I am glad to see an interest in this theory, so that I don't feel all alone imagining that such evil could be involved here.

private eye - i am glad i am not alone in my theory also - this whole incinerator operator death has had my radar blazing since get go.  Two other things are blaring:  Paulus' pool work and Paulus' furniture delivery.  I wonder how many times Paulus has had furniture delivered or pool concrete work done in the 3 years prior to Natalie's death?  I would venture to say "nadda".  It is so glaringly obvious he had pool work done and furniture delivered as part of his coverup.  And he doesn't worry about finding a body because i believe he had it burned.  That's why they are all so smug and going on about their lives in such a self assured way.  I know this is a sick thought, but i wish someone would drug Paulus and J2K and ask them questions while drugged in which they would reveal the truth - and record it to play for the world.  Jump 'em, drug 'em, and let them talk while under the influence.  Wish it could be done.

I can't imagine what the tie in would be. Maybe they broke some furniture in the course of the crime and had to replace it? But if the body is under the pool, then why the incinerator? Burning is the only absolute way to destroy evidence. I did and do wonder, and the truth is most likely we will never know what was coincidence, cover, and the actual deeds.

[private eye]

The involvement of Croes was by accident I think because Croes only involvement began since Beth and Jug needed a phone, he met with them, listened and was probably sincerely going to help until he learned the Van Der Sloots were involved. He obviously was friends, involved with, or at least obligated to Paulus because of possibly the phone company that Rudy, Vonking and Van Der Sloot helped him get, and thus his relationship which began as one of helping Beth evolved into a relationship where he worked against Beth. I think Julia and Croes both originally were going to help, and then realized the whos and then had to double cross Beth. Most people would help a Mother in tears look for her daughter, only this time they couldn't. Their obligation was to protect another persons child

We know of Charles Croes business Digicel....do you have info that links Matthews loss of his franchise and Croes acquiring it?  This is news to me...not sure about others.  If I was able to pull up the business records, I would do so, just to compare dates, etc.

No that is just an assumption, and I should have clarified that. Glenda and the other misfits at RU told me the story of Mathew, the awarding of the franchise (only they told it to show me that Aruba didn't have racism and the awarding of the telecom. was the proof). I am guessing that the company he lost is the one that Croes now owns. I am trying to trace the loss of Mathew to see who benefited from his alleged mis treatment. Any info would be appreciated. It is the only thread I can see that could link the 4 of them so tightly at this point.

[private eye]

If you had the date that Croes began operating the phone company it might tie in to an approximate time frame with the Mathew case. Did you happen to see any other phone companies, or better would you know how to look up and see what Mathew actually was awarded? Glenda/Julia may not be the most accurate source.

[2NJSons_Mom]

The involvement of Croes was by accident I think because Croes only involvement began since Beth and Jug needed a phone, he met with them, listened and was probably sincerely going to help until he learned the Van Der Sloots were involved. He obviously was friends, involved with, or at least obligated to Paulus because of possibly the phone company that Rudy, Vonking and Van Der Sloot helped him get, and thus his relationship which began as one of helping Beth evolved into a relationship where he worked against Beth. I think Julia and Croes both originally were going to help, and then realized the whos and then had to double cross Beth. Most people would help a Mother in tears look for her daughter, only this time they couldn't. Their obligation was to protect another persons child

We know of Charles Croes business Digicel....do you have info that links Matthews loss of his franchise and Croes acquiring it?  This is news to me...not sure about others.  If I was able to pull up the business records, I would do so, just to compare dates, etc.

No that is just an assumption, and I should have clarified that. Glenda and the other misfits at RU told me the story of Mathew, the awarding of the franchise (only they told it to show me that Aruba didn't have racism and the awarding of the telecom. was the proof). I am guessing that the company he lost is the one that Croes now owns. I am trying to trace the loss of Mathew to see who benefited from his alleged mis treatment. Any info would be appreciated. It is the only thread I can see that could link the 4 of them so tightly at this point.

OK, thank you...this explains why it seemed new to me and I had never heard or read what business Matthew was attempting to build/start but only knew it was put down by the powers that be...there are many here who have info saved...I lost all on another computer, so I'd have to look to see what I might find.  Gives me something to do during idle time. 

[private eye]

I think everyone got turned off by Mathew when we found out he was a convicted wife beater, but his wife is very educated and certainly is able to leave him if she wanted. There have been no further incidents that I can find. Possibly those accusations were false, possibly he was wrongly convicted, and possibly he was mis treated. Can you blame him for whipping one of them after our present experience with them? The World Court ruled that he was indeed subjected to inhumane treatment while imprisoned in Aruba. Maybe some of us rushed to judgment, and we discounted him as a source of possible help,. when in reality he or his wife could possible tell us how it is in Aruba. The same characters are involved.

[igsigs]

FWIW - I remember GetaGrip saying that Paulus used to work for Rudy Croes. Maybe that is common knowledge...

Also, when Paulus was arrested Rudy was quick to report on MSM that it was only an effort to get Joran to talk. A comment that implied that Paulus was innocent (while incarcerated) and that the arrest itself was illegitimate. Clearly working against the investigation - early on.

[private eye]

The involvement of Croes was by accident I think because Croes only involvement began since Beth and Jug needed a phone, he met with them, listened and was probably sincerely going to help until he learned the Van Der Sloots were involved. He obviously was friends, involved with, or at least obligated to Paulus because of possibly the phone company that Rudy, Vonking and Van Der Sloot helped him get, and thus his relationship which began as one of helping Beth evolved into a relationship where he worked against Beth. I think Julia and Croes both originally were going to help, and then realized the whos and then had to double cross Beth. Most people would help a Mother in tears look for her daughter, only this time they couldn't. Their obligation was to protect another persons child

We know of Charles Croes business Digicel....do you have info that links Matthews loss of his franchise and Croes acquiring it?  This is news to me...not sure about others.  If I was able to pull up the business records, I would do so, just to compare dates, etc.

No that is just an assumption, and I should have clarified that. Glenda and the other misfits at RU told me the story of Mathew, the awarding of the franchise (only they told it to show me that Aruba didn't have racism and the awarding of the telecom. was the proof). I am guessing that the company he lost is the one that Croes now owns. I am trying to trace the loss of Mathew to see who benefited from his alleged mis treatment. Any info would be appreciated. It is the only thread I can see that could link the 4 of them so tightly at this point.

OK, thank you...this explains why it seemed new to me and I had never heard or read what business Matthew was attempting to build/start but only knew it was put down by the powers that be...there are many here who have info saved...I lost all on another computer, so I'd have to look to see what I might find.  Gives me something to do during idle time. 

I cannot find anywhere what Mathew had that Aruba's powers wanted, but I posted the topic on Refugees and asked if racism was a problem, and the Glenda's went absolutely frantic in their hatred of him and my question if racism exists in Aruba. She said he owned some other businesses, or at least implied he was a successful business man with several holdings prior to his arrest. After a charge, a misdemeanor charge at that, he came out completely devoid of even a life. Where did asll of his holdings go?

Maybe we should invite his wife to post????????????

[private eye]

But she was specifically said he was awarded a telecommunnication franschise

[Lala'sMom]

Rudy Croes, Ben King, all Dutch, right?

[2NJSons_Mom]

The involvement of Croes was by accident I think because Croes only involvement began since Beth and Jug needed a phone, he met with them, listened and was probably sincerely going to help until he learned the Van Der Sloots were involved. He obviously was friends, involved with, or at least obligated to Paulus because of possibly the phone company that Rudy, Vonking and Van Der Sloot helped him get, and thus his relationship which began as one of helping Beth evolved into a relationship where he worked against Beth. I think Julia and Croes both originally were going to help, and then realized the whos and then had to double cross Beth. Most people would help a Mother in tears look for her daughter, only this time they couldn't. Their obligation was to protect another persons child

We know of Charles Croes business Digicel....do you have info that links Matthews loss of his franchise and Croes acquiring it?  This is news to me...not sure about others.  If I was able to pull up the business records, I would do so, just to compare dates, etc.

No that is just an assumption, and I should have clarified that. Glenda and the other misfits at RU told me the story of Mathew, the awarding of the franchise (only they told it to show me that Aruba didn't have racism and the awarding of the telecom. was the proof). I am guessing that the company he lost is the one that Croes now owns. I am trying to trace the loss of Mathew to see who benefited from his alleged mis treatment. Any info would be appreciated. It is the only thread I can see that could link the 4 of them so tightly at this point.

OK, thank you...this explains why it seemed new to me and I had never heard or read what business Matthew was attempting to build/start but only knew it was put down by the powers that be...there are many here who have info saved...I lost all on another computer, so I'd have to look to see what I might find.  Gives me something to do during idle time. 

I cannot find anywhere what Mathew had that Aruba's powers wanted, but I posted the topic on Refugees and asked if racism was a problem, and the Glenda's went absolutely frantic in their hatred of him and my question if racism exists in Aruba. She said he owned some other businesses, or at least implied he was a successful business man with several holdings prior to his arrest. After a charge, a misdemeanor charge at that, he came out completely devoid of even a life. Where did asll of his holdings go?

Maybe we should invite his wife to post????????????

Here's the link to Chamber of Commerce on Digicel...dates back to Feb, 2001...would have to search for dates on Matthew.  I wasn't able to copy & paste the info here...just click on Digicel near the bottom of the page.

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_search.afp

[SunnyinTX]

I think everyone might ought to re-think their feelings towards Mos. A good case can still be made that he is doing his job to the best of his abilities, possibly. He executed a strategy designed to attempt to make one of the boys panic and talk with arrest of the three boys. If you get in the case late, and there has been a coverup, then there isn't a lot to work with from Mos point of view, the prosecutor. So he attempted to shake some new evidence from not only a cold case, but a case that has actrually been washed clean of evidence by the previous investigation. Then he or the Dutch found new technology that enabled them to retrieve data that the clean up investigation crew thought they had cleaned. That evidence, if correct, was a statement by one of the 3 that "the girl was dead" and found a new witness that stated something was wrong with Joran that night after 1 and before daylight. Armed with that he executed his strategy designed to create new evidence from the boys. He took it to the judge, but of course the judge said it is not enough. Most prosecutors would have left it at that. But Mos didn't stop there, he called a press conference to tell the world what he found in Aruba, including what evidence he presented. He also kept Rudy Croes in the dark, the Minister of Justice, who has played a huge role in this coverup and had previously played a huge role in the Mathew coverup. In fact the Mathew case corruption was accomplished by none other than Rudy Croes, Ben Vonking (Prosecutors office), and Paulus Van Der Sloot. The  3 Asskateers of Aruba.

A lot of criticism has been directed towards Mos speaking Dutch during his press conference, but who he has to play this out in front of to affect a change is Holland. So his audience speaks Dutch. They have to be convinced because Holland is the key to Aruba. Aruba is soveriegn, but they are not solvent, and they dependent upon Dutch money to exists. In addition, Van Der Sloot and the Judges are all employees of the Dutch, so their conduct is subject to Dutch review. Maybe he should have had a translator, or gave the USA networks a heads up so they could have a translator, but he is going against the forces of the coverup, executing far superior strategy's than we have seen in the past on this case, and seems to be inclined to shine the light on the roaches as he goes.

I know this goes against popular pro Natalee concerns, and I realize that I almost expect for him to chump me, but my brain thinks that JUST MAYBE HE IS NOT. HE MAY BE FOR REAL.

He was not allowed to give Beth or JQK any of the evidence while they were down there according to my understanding of Dutch Law, and he didn't. The person who is sincerely trying to solve this case is going to follow the law concerning everyone.

Private eye...thank you....I agree with most of what you said....and I still do have some faith in MOS...I am not sure why..... other than I am not ready to give up.  If one  person, the girl, gave testimony in June of 2007...who knows now that he has put it out there for the world to see, perhaps someone else who knows something WILL come forward.