Natalee Case Discussion #706 12/20 -

[nonesuche]

private eye-

Matthew was heavily abused while in prison in Aruba too, left to live chained by the ankle in a cell that didn't even have a full roof and little protection from the elements. King was his tormenter, he seemed to take a distinct pleasure in abusing Matthew so I don't believe Matthew attacked King without reason. It's like any animal you keep chained up and abused constantly, eventually they will strike back.

As for Digicel, atlmetroguy is very experienced in the wireless industry globally, I worked heavily in that are from 99 through to 2003 also. As much as people here sometimes want to believe that Aruba is behind us in technology, actually in some areas like wireless they are ahead of us - due to their proximity to South America. I don't know why we in the US have to insist we lead at everything but actually Aruba was a generation ahead of us in wireless and still might be?

atlmetroguy firmly believed that the transmissions that night could have been traced via Digicel IF Digicel was the provider. He also emailed me quite some time ago which I forwarded to the family, his offer to use his contacts to assist in having those traced.

Charles Croes is in this up to his very ugly eyeballs.....

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>


He was not allowed to give Beth or JQK any of the evidence while they were down there according to my understanding of Dutch Law, and he didn't. The person who is sincerely trying to solve this case is going to follow the law concerning everyone.

PI ... I respectfully believe that you are giving Hans Mos too much credit.

If Hans Mos had documentation of the new and sufficient evidence but was unable ... under Dutch law ... to reveal it ... WHY DID HE NOT INFORM JQK, BETH AND DAVE ABOUT THIS ASPECT OF DUTCH LAW PRIOR TO FLYING TO ARUBA FOR THE MEETING?  WHY DID HE NOT INFORM JQK, BETH AND DAVE ABOUT THIS ASPECT OF DUTCH LAW AT THE MEETING IN ARUBA?

Considering Joran, Deepak and Satish have been released and ... will not face charges and .. the Kalpoes are no longer suspects in the Natalee Holloway case ... it seems reasonable to assume that ... Dutch law ... must also dictate that the "new and sufficient" evidence must have also been withheld from the judge.

I could be wrong but ... the way I see it ... the defence and JQK claimed there was insufficient new evidence to bring charges against against Joran, Deepak and Satish and ... the happenings of the past week reveal that the judge concurred.

Janet

++++++++++


Holloway Attorney: 'Extraordinarily Painful'
Tuesday, December 04, 2007

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Disappointing, Greta. I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made. And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html


Hans Mos
ABC NEWS
November 26, 2007

Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.
http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3912737


Hans Mos
On the Record with Greta
November 27, 2007

MOS: And this decision to re-arrest these three suspects was a decision taken by 10 lawyers, by 10 lawyers sitting around a table (INAUDIBLE) whole afternoon, being presented the new material.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313168,00.html

[SunnyinTX]

Hi NONE...he made a very profound statement and for the life of me I can't find it...do you have any idea what I mean....??  how that for confusing??

[Nut44x4]

mmmmmmmmm........I do not remember seeing this one before. I may have, but it does not look familiar to me now.
To: President George W. Bush
http://search.campaign.com/democracy/bio/userletter/?letter_id=534929026&content_dir=congressorg

[Lala'sMom]

The involvement of Croes was by accident I think because Croes only involvement began since Beth and Jug needed a phone, he met with them, listened and was probably sincerely going to help until he learned the Van Der Sloots were involved. He obviously was friends, involved with, or at least obligated to Paulus because of possibly the phone company that Rudy, Vonking and Van Der Sloot helped him get, and thus his relationship which began as one of helping Beth evolved into a relationship where he worked against Beth. I think Julia and Croes both originally were going to help, and then realized the whos and then had to double cross Beth. Most people would help a Mother in tears look for her daughter, only this time they couldn't. Their obligation was to protect another persons child

that's is what I thought as well.....both did an abrupt about face when they found out the van der sloot's were involved...

Charles Croes knew the very first night that the Sloots were involved.  Beth had already made that fact known to him and Julia knew the next day.  They were not helping anyone from the beginning...Croes was the one that sat in the backseat with Beth and did that weird questioning and such about Natalee.  They knew within a few hours of Natalee's disappearance who was involved.  Don't kid yourself!

I think that is what I said???...they seemed willing to help until they found out the sloots were involved....croes that night and renho whenever...I am not sure it has ever been established exactly when renho got involved.....

Are you yelling at me?  Little sweet me?  Where is that list now?  hmmmm.

[Tylergal]

Rudy Croes, Ben King, all Dutch, right?

Rudy Croes is Aruban as the dirt.  His brother was the "father of Aruba."

[NYC_lover]

I  hope it doesn't happen too often...we would be worried about you for sure!!  and emailing you

It happens two times today. And well sometimes it can be hackers also, because the hackers are very interesting in my msn conversation and what kind of website I watch. But that don't stay anymore at my computer.... Haha good for them, they want playing and I want playing back. (Of course the internet provider has website but they don't want give it ) I give my parents alerts remove all the msn conversations and websites, or bring them over to a membery stick. Unfortunately almost nothing to find . Please don't worried about me, my parents do also when I don't answer my cell phone or don't tell where I am. But they do not have to know everything, what I doing and with who I all have any connected. 
And mail I understand, sorry something I am lazy to send something back.  I must still respons your mails. 
Hold one, I want send them soon. 

[klaasend]

mmmmmmmmm........I do not remember seeing this one before. I may have, but it does not look familiar to me now.
To: President George W. Bush
http://search.campaign.com/democracy/bio/userletter/?letter_id=534929026&content_dir=congressorg

Yep, old news.  That's Moonshadows letter to Bush.  Beryl Coder = Moonshadows (FOB) = K Hemmingway (RU)

[SunnyinTX]

mmmmmmmmm........I do not remember seeing this one before. I may have, but it does not look familiar to me now.
To: President George W. Bush
http://search.campaign.com/democracy/bio/userletter/?letter_id=534929026&content_dir=congressorg

Nut I do not remember ever seeing this before....

[private eye]

Private Eye,

The room tax on fake tourists would be the same as real ones so money laundered in this method would have to pay that cut to the government.

But remember that Aruba claims to be autonomous, just not solvent.  How else can they have all that wealth on display and millions in tourism and not be solvent if everybody is paying their fair share.

The Dutch get to foot the bill on much of the health care and other social services.  At least they had to in the past but with this new autonomy, all of that is still up in the air as there is a major dispute because Oduber refuses to account for money the Dutch already gave to Aruba and further says he will not in the future as is protected from doing so by their Constitution.

But one would think instead of being in debt up to their eyeballs, the Aruban government would be swimming in big bucks from all the taxes from their most lucrative tourism.  And it would be if it were all legit which it isn't.

They are just about maxed out at IMF even and owe for that new huge cruise ship dock no one is docking at, major hotel properties which the government only leases to the hotels, etc.

So where does all that tourist tax do if things are above board?  Certainly not to pay their bills which are mounting by the year tremendously as are taxes.

Just my opinion of the economics of that place.  No one will ever see the real books on Aruba for sure.

.

I agree, the businesses do provide a front for laundering, but again the tax Aruba collects off of the fake room rental is peanuts compared to what the individuals get

[SunnyinTX]

I think that is what I said???...they seemed willing to help until they found out the sloots were involved....croes that night and renho whenever...I am not sure it has ever been established exactly when renho got involved.....

Are you yelling at me?  Little sweet me?  Where is that list now?  hmmmm.

no way would I yell at you ....I know you got that damn book!!!   And I only spit and cuss and stomp my feet when you aren't here and haven't told anyone to go eat a bug in a long time....but I have been tempted

[Tylergal]

mmmmmmmmm........I do not remember seeing this one before. I may have, but it does not look familiar to me now.
To: President George W. Bush
http://search.campaign.com/democracy/bio/userletter/?letter_id=534929026&content_dir=congressorg

Yes, but you know that Condi met with Beth after that letter.

[NYC_lover]

Rudy Croes, Ben King, all Dutch, right?

Rudy Croes is Aruban as the dirt.  His brother was the "father of Aruba."

In the begin I though Rudy is familair to Theresa and Steve, but when I was see the telephone book from Aruba, I was see there are many Croes at Aruba. Look like Groot or Janssen in the Netherlands.
But I don't think Ben is an Aruban.

[private eye]

Private Eye,

The room tax on fake tourists would be the same as real ones so money laundered in this method would have to pay that cut to the government.

But remember that Aruba claims to be autonomous, just not solvent.  How else can they have all that wealth on display and millions in tourism and not be solvent if everybody is paying their fair share.

The Dutch get to foot the bill on much of the health care and other social services.  At least they had to in the past but with this new autonomy, all of that is still up in the air as there is a major dispute because Oduber refuses to account for money the Dutch already gave to Aruba and further says he will not in the future as is protected from doing so by their Constitution.

But one would think instead of being in debt up to their eyeballs, the Aruban government would be swimming in big bucks from all the taxes from their most lucrative tourism.  And it would be if it were all legit which it isn't.

They are just about maxed out at IMF even and owe for that new huge cruise ship dock no one is docking at, major hotel properties which the government only leases to the hotels, etc.

So where does all that tourist tax do if things are above board?  Certainly not to pay their bills which are mounting by the year tremendously as are taxes.

Just my opinion of the economics of that place.  No one will ever see the real books on Aruba for sure.

.

I agree, the businesses do provide a front for laundering, but again the tax Aruba collects off of the fake room rental is peanuts compared to what the individuals get

They don't produce jobs, tips, need services and as thus don't help the aveage Aruban

[Tylergal]

Private Eye,

The room tax on fake tourists would be the same as real ones so money laundered in this method would have to pay that cut to the government.

But remember that Aruba claims to be autonomous, just not solvent.  How else can they have all that wealth on display and millions in tourism and not be solvent if everybody is paying their fair share.

The Dutch get to foot the bill on much of the health care and other social services.  At least they had to in the past but with this new autonomy, all of that is still up in the air as there is a major dispute because Oduber refuses to account for money the Dutch already gave to Aruba and further says he will not in the future as is protected from doing so by their Constitution.

But one would think instead of being in debt up to their eyeballs, the Aruban government would be swimming in big bucks from all the taxes from their most lucrative tourism.  And it would be if it were all legit which it isn't.

They are just about maxed out at IMF even and owe for that new huge cruise ship dock no one is docking at, major hotel properties which the government only leases to the hotels, etc.

So where does all that tourist tax do if things are above board?  Certainly not to pay their bills which are mounting by the year tremendously as are taxes.

Just my opinion of the economics of that place.  No one will ever see the real books on Aruba for sure.

.

I agree, the businesses do provide a front for laundering, but again the tax Aruba collects off of the fake room rental is peanuts compared to what the individuals get

The money is coming from drugs and mostly from gambling.  If AZLady was here, she has done a LOT OF RESEARCH on the gambling in Aruba and the billions it brings in per year. 

[Tylergal]

Okay, it's time for me to go.  If someone has information on the prestigious Karpool press conference, please post it.  My DH wants a Philips architect razor for Christmas.  More Dutch stuff.  Doesn't Philips own everything by now?  They just purchased a sleep and respiratory company that was owned by a US company for about $7 billion.

[NYC_lover]

Does someone more about this? I was see this when I had type in Google: Ben King Aruba

This site is incredible for watching:
http://www.wateengelul.nl/actueel/index.php/Pagina-111.html

En dat is 2...   
Mr. Pink | donderdag, 30 juni 2005 12:26 | Actueel  Ooit eens nagedacht over het al dan niet in zee gaan met de turken? Ga dan in het laatste geval zéér zeker niet met ze vliegen. De kans is groot dat u dan tóch met ze in zee gaat. Hun vliegtuigen vallen namelijk om de haverklap stil. Eerst was daar Onur Air, die zelfs tijdelijk een verbod kreeg op Nederlandse luchthavens te vliegen, nu is daar Fly-Air die een kist met motorproblemen aan de grond moet zetten. 't blijft moeilijk hoor, vliegen...
Reageer als eerste | Quote dit artikel | Views: 125 | Lees meer...
 
Jaguar tegen Harrier   
Mr. Pink | donderdag, 30 juni 2005 12:12 | Actueel  In de categorie "Hoe verzin je het..." deze week een leuk filmpje. Een Jaguar XJS tegen een Harrier gevechtsvliegtuig. Niet zo maar een XJS... nee de TopGear XJS, fully loaded engine, 500PK, gestript om gewicht te besparen en de "Stig" achter het stuur. Plaats van handeling... Een vliegdekschip!
Het zou de black Stig's laatste ritje worden, maar kan de Jaguar de Harrier verslaan? 100mph in 200 meter, hetgeen de Harrier met gemak haalt? Wij zouden zeggen: Wat een gelul!
Reageer als eerste | Quote dit artikel | Views: 125 | Lees meer...
 
 

[klaasend]

Posted on the front page of SM (this person appears to be posting from Aruba):

CapslockWizard wrote:

I do think that we all got it wrong..

If the Investigators cannot find Nathalie is because they are searching and looking in the wrong places.
If you ask yourself this question: “Where would I hide a body so that nobody will find it?”
The answers are a lot of places can be used, but for a logic thinker there is only one answer.
And form all the articles that I have read, nobody have suggested and even mention this place.
Lets test the Logic:
In Aruba in when someone dies, they can be put to rest in two forms.
1. In the grounds
2. In a Kelder with 4 or 6 rooms constructed out of brick and mortar above ground in public eye site in the cemetary. These Kelders belong to a Family and they buy these plots form the church in the cemetery and build the Kelders on it and leave it open for when the moment arrived you have a place to rest.
Both types of method funerals will take place only in a CEMETARY.
There are a lot of CEMETARY in Aruba and most of them have KELDERS and a lot are left OPEN for when he or she dies will be buried close in the Family plot.
My logic:
The reason that no one can find her is that she must be among all the dead in the cemetery and who is going to search a cemetery for a body where there is already a lot of body in the place.
Logic test: You will never find an open grave in the ground because when someone dies in Aruba and need to be buried in the ground, the Funeral home in charge of the body will give orders to dig a grave for this person in a district in accordance with the family wishes.
To dig a grave 6 feet deep and wide enough for a body will take a lot of time by hand. Beside the ground will look disturb by the cemetery keeper. So I believe that these 4 perps would not have the time to dig a grave.
But
If you have a dead body on your hand and you need to hide it fast, the only way is to put it in an open Kelder and with only five to 6 bricks and and a bucket of cement and you are done. And if you want to make it look professional, can even give it a coat of paint color white which is the mostly use.
This last process is very easy done with 3 or 4 person.
a. Move dead body to a cemetery,
b. Cemetry door closed, then jump the fence with the body.
c. Inside the cemetery fined an open Kelder or break one open.
d. Put body in it
e. Go and get 6 pieces of bricks or use bricks that are in the cemetery already.
f. Make cement in a bucket
g. Use the bricks to close the small walls of the Kelder.
h. Paint the wall
And you are done.
Now nobody can’t find her because we are looking outside the box, we have been looking too much outside the realm of logic. The Logic is, nobody is going to look in a cemetery and if you are going to search a cemetery, it will be difficult to search without disturbing the graves. And another drawback is that you need permission of the families to open all the Kelders.
And this is my theory on this case and my logic thinking.

CapslockWizard

[Magnolia]

private eye-

Matthew was heavily abused while in prison in Aruba too, left to live chained by the ankle in a cell that didn't even have a full roof and little protection from the elements. King was his tormenter, he seemed to take a distinct pleasure in abusing Matthew so I don't believe Matthew attacked King without reason. It's like any animal you keep chained up and abused constantly, eventually they will strike back.

As for Digicel, atlmetroguy is very experienced in the wireless industry globally, I worked heavily in that are from 99 through to 2003 also. As much as people here sometimes want to believe that Aruba is behind us in technology, actually in some areas like wireless they are ahead of us - due to their proximity to South America. I don't know why we in the US have to insist we lead at everything but actually Aruba was a generation ahead of us in wireless and still might be?

atlmetroguy firmly believed that the transmissions that night could have been traced via Digicel IF Digicel was the provider. He also emailed me quite some time ago which I forwarded to the family, his offer to use his contacts to assist in having those traced.

Charles Croes is in this up to his very ugly eyeballs.....

I totally agree about Charles Croes.
Remember he was arrested for beating his wife....I think.  There was
something about the beach in the arrest.  Anyway they locked him
up for 10 days.  I think it was in 2005 may have been 2006.

[Anna]

Private Eye,

The room tax on fake tourists would be the same as real ones so money laundered in this method would have to pay that cut to the government.

But remember that Aruba claims to be autonomous, just not solvent.  How else can they have all that wealth on display and millions in tourism and not be solvent if everybody is paying their fair share.

The Dutch get to foot the bill on much of the health care and other social services.  At least they had to in the past but with this new autonomy, all of that is still up in the air as there is a major dispute because Oduber refuses to account for money the Dutch already gave to Aruba and further says he will not in the future as is protected from doing so by their Constitution.

But one would think instead of being in debt up to their eyeballs, the Aruban government would be swimming in big bucks from all the taxes from their most lucrative tourism.  And it would be if it were all legit which it isn't.

They are just about maxed out at IMF even and owe for that new huge cruise ship dock no one is docking at, major hotel properties which the government only leases to the hotels, etc.

So where does all that tourist tax do if things are above board?  Certainly not to pay their bills which are mounting by the year tremendously as are taxes.

Just my opinion of the economics of that place.  No one will ever see the real books on Aruba for sure.

.

I agree, the businesses do provide a front for laundering, but again the tax Aruba collects off of the fake room rental is peanuts compared to what the individuals get

They don't produce jobs, tips, need services and as thus don't help the aveage Aruban

Exactly!  This is why Aruba remains insolvent and financially dependent on the Dutch no matter how many tourists they have or claim to have.  They should be fabulously wealthy if all taxes were collected from that posh resort area and the casinos.  Instead they are in debt and taxes rising and a gallon of gasoline selling for over $7, no white bread available as well as other things imported, etc.  They are flat broke for a reason.

.