Natalee Case Discussion #706 12/20 -

[Nut44x4]

Can you imagine, if you were a man, having to bed that thing?

at least it isn't a pube

[NYC_lover]

I have to go to bed, tomorrow still to school before Christmas. I will see u all tomorrow! I hope u all have a great evening!

[Magnolia]

IMO Rudy Croes had no idea that Mos was planning to open up the can of
worms again.  As Jossy said...Rudy Croes was off in India where he had
no bussiness being.  When Croes finally became aware of Mos plan he
tied Mos hands.  That was when Mos said that the family, the media and
the DEA corrupted the case.  That is when Mos' whole attitude changed.

J2K are forever marked as killers...people will point and stare wherever
they go, even on Aruba.  I don't think Glenda and her crew did them
any favors.  They are marked for life.  The six year sentence would have
been a much easier punishment.

Aruba is marked as well. Why would any American want to go to Aruba knowing they have killers on the loose?

In an Internet chat shortly after the May 30, 2005, disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba, one of the three main suspects in the case said the Alabama teenager was dead, the island's chief public prosecutor told CNN on Thursday.

Aruba is marked as well and will forever be thought of as an
evil place.  The underbelly has been exposed.
Mos has no emotional ties to Aruba....he is there for a short stint.
He might seek vengence and tell more.  Look out!

[Nut44x4]

I hope Joe T. has a clean pair of drawers back stage.

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Janet

I realize who was considered a suspect vs witness. I am just trying to make sense of the 13 arrests that taco,pitbull and the goon have mentioned 30 times now. They can be arrested or detained and not be considered suspect's.

According to the following Aruban attorneys ... there has to be serious/strong suspicions to be detained.  Serious/strong supicions imply "suspect" to me.

******* ... we are talking about Aruba.  In the Natalee Holloway case ... Dutch law has been manipulated/disrgard on an ongoing base in the quest to protect Joran and Paulus.

I wonder if Joe Tacopina is referring to Lorenzo ... Koen ... Freddy ... Michael Dompig ...

I am so discouraged.  Looks like the Christmas season was chosen by Aruba to uphold the VDS family ... cause further distress the the family of Natalee Holloway.

******* ... I am 60 years old and ... in all my years I have never known that such evil existed in the hearts of people.  I guess it always has but but ...

Janet

++++++++++++

Arlene Ellis-Schipper
NANCY GRACE
July 20, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: There is no grand jury in Aruba. It`s a different system.  You are arrested based on suspicion, on strong suspicion.


Noraina Pietersz - Defence Attorney
Associated Press
June 9, 2005

Under Aruban law, only serious suspicion from investigators — not solid evidence — is needed for a judge to rule that suspects can be held, Pietersz said.

[wreck]

IMO Rudy Croes had no idea that Mos was planning to open up the can of
worms again.  As Jossy said...Rudy Croes was off in India where he had
no bussiness being.  When Croes finally became aware of Mos plan he
tied Mos hands.  That was when Mos said that the family, the media and
the DEA corrupted the case.  That is when Mos' whole attitude changed.

J2K are forever marked as killers...people will point and stare wherever
they go, even on Aruba.  I don't think Glenda and her crew did them
any favors.  They are marked for life.  The six year sentence would have
been a much easier punishment.

Aruba is marked as well. Why would any American want to go to Aruba knowing they have killers on the loose?

In an Internet chat shortly after the May 30, 2005, disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba, one of the three main suspects in the case said the Alabama teenager was dead, the island's chief public prosecutor told CNN on Thursday.

Aruba is marked as well and will forever be thought of as an
evil place.  The underbelly has been exposed.
Mos has no emotional ties to Aruba....he is there for a short stint.
He might seek vengence and tell more.  Look out!

It will be very telling where Aruba lies in the next 24 hours. Will they be outraged that 3 killers have gotten off and sunk their island??? OR will they bring their wrath on Mos for daring to say the boys are probably guilty as hell. My bets are that they will be angry with Mos. THEY JUST DON'T GEt IT!

[Silverfox]

Remember this site?

http://www.koninginnlwatismensenrechten.com

[Red]

Joe Pacotenis

BIG STORY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmiPTCihENg

Rather interesting that Joe Tacopina says that Joran was not involved in any way in Natalee's disappearance. Funny  ... he didn't say anything about her death.

Would you like to elaborate on your non-statement Joe?

[crazybabyborg]

Dang, guys! Am I the only one that thinks there's a LOT of Damning evidence in what Mos said today? I don't see how anyone can call it anything but NEW either.

What am I missing? Frankly, I understand the logic of what Mos did, and under other circumstances, it might have worked. These three had "lawyered up" before the crime itself had been completed, and when that was matched up with willingly corrrupt police on the perpertrator's side, it's a horse of a different color all together.

He could go MUCH further, yes. He could openly point a finger at ALE, I'm sure. He could be critical of the judges, etc. but it seems to me he honestly thought he had new and damning evidence. I would agree with that.

OK, I'm ducking, so don't throw great big rocks, OK?

[Observer]

Hi Janet

I realize who was considered a suspect vs witness. I am just trying to make sense of the 13 arrests that taco,pitbull and the goon have mentioned 30 times now. They can be arrested or detained and not be considered suspect's.

According to the following Aruban attorneys ... there has to be serious/strong suspicions to be detained.  Serious/strong supicions imply "suspect" to me.

******* ... we are talking about Aruba.  In the Natalee Holloway case ... Dutch law has been manipulated/disrgard on an ongoing base in the quest to protect Joran and Paulus.

I wonder if Joe Tacopina is referring to Lorenzo ... Koen ... Freddy ... Michael Dompig ...

I am so discouraged.  Looks like the Christmas season was chosen by Aruba to uphold the VDS family ... cause further distress the the family of Natalee Holloway.

******* ... I am 60 years old and ... in all my years I have never known that such evil existed in the hearts of people.  I guess it always has but but ...

Janet

++++++++++++

Arlene Ellis-Schipper
NANCY GRACE
July 20, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: There is no grand jury in Aruba. It`s a different system.  You are arrested based on suspicion, on strong suspicion.


Noraina Pietersz - Defence Attorney
Associated Press
June 9, 2005

Under Aruban law, only serious suspicion from investigators — not solid evidence — is needed for a judge to rule that suspects can be held, Pietersz said.

I think he was mentioning all those people. Showing this has gone on long enough as they arrested 13 people in this case and its going on almost 3 years now. There are others besides Joran is what he is implying and they have arrested so many. We have seen the way he has thrown GVC under the bus.

They are dead set against prosecuting anyone for these crimes and we are up against a very dirty evil little Govt. Unfortunately something like 70% of there economy is from tourism and they are treating it like a war. These people are so dirty and dispicable they chose to lie and slander the victim and her family and point the blame in there direction. The evil that exists is coming directly from the suspects and those working for the Aruban Govt. All this time later it's not a suprise anymore what Natalee and her Family are up against.

[Dayhiker]

I USED to be the optimist that the Dutch or Mos "were smarter than we think" . Not any more -- no way! "There's no diamond ring sitting on the bottom of a Cracker Jack box."

No there isn't *******. It's what Mos didn't say that is equally interesting. He has never implicated any of his fellow Dutchies as being incompetent or corrupt. There was no investigation into the investigation. They have cleared the island of three Dutch suspects, one prosecutor, and one police commissioner involved.

Mos didn't go to Aruba to clean house or even prosecute a case. It was all kool-aid.

[dennisintn]

Probably a duplicate of what's already been posted, but in case there's something different thought I'd post anyway:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/12/20/aruba.holloway.case/index.html

Holloway suspect wrote teen was dead, prosecutor says
Story Highlights
NEW: Prosecutors won't say who wrote teen was dead in Internet chat session

Evidence not sufficient for prosecution, officials say

Alabama teen went missing during graduation trip two years ago

Case against three suspects dismissed earlier this week

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- In an Internet chat shortly after the May 30, 2005, disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba, one of the three main suspects in the case said the Alabama teenager was dead, the island's chief public prosecutor told CNN on Thursday.

The chat, retrieved from a computer hard disk, was among new evidence prosecutors used to justify re-arresting the three in November, Hans Mos said.

New technology that was not available to authorities in 2005 was utilized to find that chat and more between two of the three suspects as well as others, he said.

Judges, however, ruled the new evidence was not enough to keep the suspects -- Joran van der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe -- behind bars. Mos' office said Tuesday they will not prosecute the three in Holloway's disappearance, effectively closing the case unless new evidence comes to light. Watch a report on the case »

In the chat, Mos told CNN's Susan Candiotti, one of the suspects said, "The fact that she's dead is not good," referring to Holloway.

Other chats occurring before May 30 were also found, in which the suspects discussed "picking up American girls and what they plan to do with them," Mos said. Such chats gave authorities an idea of how the suspects operated, he said.

But, he said, authorities did not find any further discussion of Holloway's death or how she died. "If we had that, we would have been much further [along] than we are now," Mos said.

Other evidence against the three included two new witness statements. In one, a female friend told authorities that one suspect called her about five hours after Holloway was last seen leaving an Oranjestad, Aruba, nightclub with van der Sloot and the Kalpoes.

The female friend said that she could tell during the conversation that something was wrong, Mos said. When she asked about it, the suspect -- whom Mos did not name -- told her that "he didn't want to cause her any trouble, and that what had happened couldn't be discussed over the phone," he said.

Police wanted to ask the suspect what he meant by that statement, he said, but after their rearrest, all three men exercised their right to remain silent and refused to speak to authorities. See a timeline of how the case has developed »

A second witness statement came from a teacher who said that another one of the suspects exhibited "very peculiar behavior" the day after Holloway's disappearance, including making or receiving a lot of telephone calls, Mos said.

A fourth piece of new evidence came when authorities bugged the Kalpoe home in June and picked up a conversation about what happened that night, he said, but did not elaborate.

Holloway, 18, disappeared while visiting Aruba with about 100 classmates celebrating their graduation from Mountain Brook High School in suburban Birmingham, Alabama, and was last seen leaving the nightclub with the three youths. She failed to show up for her flight home the following day, and her packed bags were found in her hotel room.

All three suspects were arrested and released in the case in 2005. They were rearrested November 21, with authorities citing new and incriminating evidence against them.

In freeing the Kalpoes from jail November 30, judges from Aruba's Court of Appeal wrote that there was no evidence that Holloway died as a result of a violent crime against her or that the suspects were involved in such a crime. Using similar reasoning, a judge released van der Sloot a week later.

All three have maintained their innocence in Holloway's disappearance. The Kalpoes have told police they dropped Holloway and van der Sloot off near a lighthouse on the northern tip of the island after leaving the nightclub. Van der Sloot's mother, Anita, has said her son told her he was on the beach with Holloway but left her there because she wanted to stay.

What authorities needed, Mos said, was for at least one of the three to explain what happened that night. That's why, he said, his office went to the expense of extraditing van der Sloot from the Netherlands, where he is attending college, after rearresting him in November -- out of hopes that he might talk.

"You never know whether a person two years later will, yes or no, open up," he said.

Mos said that when the three youths were rearrested, he asked an attorney for Holloway's divorced parents, Beth and Dave Holloway, to tell them not to get their hopes up too high, as this was not "the final breakthrough" in the case.

And on December 1, Mos said, he and others in his office had "a very good talk" with the Holloways.

"Sometimes I got the impression that we aren't on the same side," he said. "That sort of disturbed me, and I think they should know that we are just as much dedicated to solving this case as they want us to be, and I cannot come up with the results. I wish I had. I feel very sorry."

He acknowledged the new evidence against the three was circumstantial, and rearresting them may have been a long shot, but "we had to give it a shot.

"I would never have forgiven myself," he said, and never would have been able to answer the question "Why didn't you even try?" given the new evidence.

"And that's exactly what we did. I'd rather give it a try and not succeed than not give it a try at all. We gave it everything we got. We cannot torture these three guys and make them tell what happened."

He said his office remains determined to find out the truth. "We believe justice will prevail one day, but we cannot force that right now."

Although Mos' decision not to prosecute the case means that under Aruban law, the three cannot legally be considered suspects, Mos said they remain persons of interest.

In interviews, he said, van der Sloot and his father have indicated they know more than previously said about what happened to Holloway, but are not willing to divulge it, giving authorities "reason to believe that their last and final story is simply not the complete story."

Authorities have found no indication that anyone else could have been involved in Holloway's disappearance -- but also have no evidence to show a crime was committed, or what crime that might have been, he said.

If Holloway's death was an accident, as some evidence suggests, Mos said he doesn't understand the need to cover it up -- or why someone didn't simply call 911 and report it the night it happened. "That's an indication there is more at hand than just an accident," he said, "but what it was, and who was involved, I don't have evidence."

Van der Sloot's American attorney, Joe Tacopina, has criticized Mos for suggesting his client was involved in Holloway's disappearance if he does not have evidence to back that up.

In response, Mos said that if van der Sloot were tried and acquitted, double jeopardy would attach and he never could be tried again. Just because he decided not to prosecute, he said, doesn't mean "there is not a file in which these three people are primary persons of interest."

Tacopina has declared his client is innocent. "That's quite funny," Mos said, "because he wasn't there on the 30th of May. Neither was I. He should ask his client."

-


well, i hadn't seen his remarks and i have to say, i can't fault him on anything he's said.  i think mos and jorg have got their work cut out for them on the happy island and both of them are probably as frustrated as any of us are.  i think he's pushed the locals as hard as he can, and i think he's given us more insight into what has been going on than we've learned in the last almost 3 years.  he's also shot down julia and company's feeble and frustrating attempts to blame everyone in the free world but j2k for natalee's disappearance.  he knows as well as we do that j2k are guilty of what happened to natalee and nobody can doubt that.  all the evidence that should have been collected in the first few days and weeks have been destroyed and mos knows this as well as we do.  if natalee's remains aren't found, or credible witnesses found, nothing more will come of this case.  mos has demonstrated to the world that the judiciary of the island is ever going to take an unjaundiced view of anything the prosecutor presents.  i think he's throwing all these stuff out there for a reason, and i'm willing to wait a while longer to see who else tries to block his efforts and why they're doing it.
dennisintn


ps:  just to answer tacopino's insults about mos being cowardly and unprofessional and whatever else he said, mos has more courage, integrity, and professionalism in his little left finger than taco's entire crowd of gum beaters could muster.
dennisintn

[crazybabyborg]

Is anyone else's computer honking?? 

[crazybabyborg]

Dennis? I agree with your post. Is it just the TN air or are we missing something?

[Observer]

Remember this site?

http://www.koninginnlwatismensenrechten.com

Yes,He is one of the few that has spoken up that the Aruban Govt is amongst the most corrupt and evil on the planet. Just last week the AVP leader in aruba said the MEP was all liars and cheats. Apparently there is nothing anybody can do about it. The 2009 elections will most likely have the same outcome as 2005 unless something is done.

[hotping]

Is anyone else's computer honking?? 
Yes, Mine has been also I believe it is the Chevrolet Advertisement on the bottom of the screen...LOL

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Janet

I realize who was considered a suspect vs witness. I am just trying to make sense of the 13 arrests that taco,pitbull and the goon have mentioned 30 times now. They can be arrested or detained and not be considered suspect's.

According to the following Aruban attorneys ... there has to be serious/strong suspicions to be detained.  Serious/strong supicions imply "suspect" to me.

******* ... we are talking about Aruba.  In the Natalee Holloway case ... Dutch law has been manipulated/disrgard on an ongoing base in the quest to protect Joran and Paulus.

I wonder if Joe Tacopina is referring to Lorenzo ... Koen ... Freddy ... Michael Dompig ...

I am so discouraged.  Looks like the Christmas season was chosen by Aruba to uphold the VDS family ... cause further distress the the family of Natalee Holloway.

******* ... I am 60 years old and ... in all my years I have never known that such evil existed in the hearts of people.  I guess it always has but but ...

Janet

++++++++++++

Arlene Ellis-Schipper
NANCY GRACE
July 20, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: There is no grand jury in Aruba. It`s a different system.  You are arrested based on suspicion, on strong suspicion.


Noraina Pietersz - Defence Attorney
Associated Press
June 9, 2005

Under Aruban law, only serious suspicion from investigators — not solid evidence — is needed for a judge to rule that suspects can be held, Pietersz said.

I think he was mentioning all those people. Showing this has gone on long enough as they arrested 13 people in this case and its going on almost 3 years now. There are others besides Joran is what he is implying and they have arrested so many. We have seen the way he has thrown GVC under the bus.

They are dead set against prosecuting anyone for these crimes and we are up against a very dirty evil little Govt. Unfortunately something like 70% of there economy is from tourism and they are treating it like a war. These people are so dirty and dispicable they chose to lie and slander the victim and her family and point the blame in there direction. The evil that exists is coming directly from the suspects and those working for the Aruban Govt. All this time later it's not a suprise anymore what Natalee and her Family are up against.

*******

The other day ... Wreck upheld the words of the mother of Natalee Holloway when he said ... THIS CASE HAS BEEN CLOSED FOR 2 1/2 YEARS!

Janet

++++++++

Beth Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
October 21, 2005

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: They never—they never wanted to implicate these three young men.

They never wanted to implicate them from the beginning. And there is a list of reasons, you know, why we know that is true.

[Red]

Prosecutor Says One of the Natalee Holloway Suspects Wrote Teen was Dead … But Suspects are Allowed to no longer be considered Suspects

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/20/prosecutor-says-one-of-the-natalee-holloway-suspects-wrote-teen-was-dead-but-suspects-are-allowed-to-no-longer-be-considered-suspects/

Hey Aruba … If a Divi Divi tree falls in the woods and no one sees it, does it make a noise?

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Aruban Circular Logic known as corruption. It would have to be because no one could be this obtuse.

[crazybabyborg]

EXERPTED FROM ARTICLE/ MY COMMENTS IN BLUE


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- In an Internet chat shortly after the May 30, 2005, disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba, one of the three main suspects in the case said the Alabama teenager was dead, the island's chief public prosecutor told CNN on Thursday. 
( The police car chat that Taco keeps saying shows they thought she may still be alive sorta flies in the face of that, doncha think? )

The chat, retrieved from a computer hard disk, was among new evidence prosecutors used to justify rearresting the three in November, Hans Mos said.

New technology that was not available to authorities in 2005 was utilized to find that chat and more between two of the three suspects as well as others, he said.

(Sounds like NEW evidence to me!)



In the chat, Mos told CNN's Susan Candiotti, one of the suspects said, "The fact that she's dead is not good," referring to Holloway.

(This was SHORTLY after she disappeared, and it was written as FACT. Not IF, but FACT! That's DAMN damning! Guys, Beth was on that island hanging posters and pounding the pavement desperately seeking help to find her daughter while these three were "chatting" about the FACT she's dead. I agree with them: it's NOT good!)

Other chats occurring before May 30 were also found, in which the suspects discussed "picking up American girls and what they plan to do with them," Mos said. Such chats gave authorities an idea of how the suspects operated, he said.

( I think that adds a roadmap to be followed, and also lends STRONG circumstantial evidence to a prosecution, IMO.)

Other evidence against the three included two new witness statements. In one, a female friend told authorities that one suspect called her about five hours after Holloway was last seen leaving an Oranjestad, Aruba, nightclub with van der Sloot and the Kalpoes.

The female friend said that she could tell during the conversation that something was wrong, Mos said. When she asked about it, the suspect -- whom Mos did not name -- told her that "he didn't want to cause her any trouble, and that what had happened couldn't be discussed over the phone," he said.
( Does this sound like they were referring to a girl that was just innocently left on the beach looking at the stars? )

Police wanted to ask the suspect what he meant by that statement, he said, but after their rearrest, all three men exercised their right to remain silent and refused to speak to authorities. See a timeline of how the case has developed »
( So ask them at TRIAL and let a judge instruct them to answer, OR hold them until they feel more chatty! You just reinforce that Bullcrap by letting it work for them!)

A second witness statement came from a teacher who said that another one of the suspects exhibited "very peculiar behavior" the day after Holloway's disappearance, including making or receiving a lot of telephone calls, Mos said.

A fourth piece of new evidence came when authorities bugged the Kalpoe home in June and picked up a conversation about what happened that night, he said, but did not elaborate.

(There's more. I don't know why he didn't elaborate, but there's more and at least they DID bug the home. That's a huge improvement on what Arubans did.)


In interviews, he said, van der Sloot and his father have indicated they know more than previously said about what happened to Holloway, but are not willing to divulge it, giving authorities "reason to believe that their last and final story is simply not the complete story."

(OK? So lock them up until they feel like sharing! This is totally unacceptable! There's a DEAD girl, and an INVESTIGATION going on! "Cat got my tongue" just doesn't cut it! )


If Holloway's death was an accident, as some evidence suggests, Mos said he doesn't understand the need to cover it up -- or why someone didn't simply call 911 and report it the night it happened. "That's an indication there is more at hand than just an accident," he said, "but what it was, and who was involved, I don't have evidence."

( YES! They CAN be taught!!!!!)

[crazybabyborg]

Is anyone else's computer honking?? 
Yes, Mine has been also I believe it is the Chevrolet Advertisement on the bottom of the screen...LOL

Thanks, hotping! I'm glad to kniow if I'm having auditory hallucinations, I'm in good company!