Natalee Case Discussion #707 12/22 - 12/28/2007

[MumInOhio]

Thanks everyone with the help on Aruban time...I think I have it now!

Pita thanks for posting that.

[klaasend]

FYI - working and lurking today.  Just didn't want anyone to think I've run away from home    I have a job that needs to be completed by 12/28   

[MumInOhio]

LOL...Klaas, keep plugging away!

 Anyone remember much about a poster back in June 2005 americaninaruba? I'm reading the archives and trying to determine fact from rumor! LOL
TIA

[Rooscrew]

Father,
Out on the waters, far away from their home this Christmas, is a group of pure hearted brave men. You know exactly where they are, just as you know where the child they seek was left. She is your child by her decision and your divine promise, Beth and Dave's by birth, and our sister in your Son. She has become a daughter to the World through the circumstances of her death and it's shock of the eternal conflict between good and evil.

Lord, we have explored the evil trying to untangle the web of lies, hate, and debauchery with one goal. We have sought to right the wrong to every extent possible; our hearts have yearned to bring hope, and justice to her family through whatever means we had available to us.

At this moment, that group of searchers is seeking to bring comfort to Natalee's family, and by your infallible word, that cause is aligned to your purpose. These men are exhibiting your perfect love through their own sacrifice for a child they do not know. You defined that sacrificial love of us all through your Son, whose birth we honor this day. Please God, guide the ship, whisper to the crew, bless the answer to the call, for these men have responded to your voice to help others at no gain to themselves. Please Lord, let them find her remains and bring her home away from the evil and deliver her into the safekeeping of her family.

Lord, I thank you for sending these men and pray that you will somehow let them know that our eyes watch with warm hearts touched by their unselfishness and skill they are lending to this purpose. Indeed, if they return without her, their effort has already been a beautiful tribute to good, and a light to answer the darkness surrounding what happened to Natalee.

We pray for your hand to allow them to bring her out of Aruba, out of the evil, and away from the clutches of that place. That is not where you placed her, Lord. Please bring her home. You have instructed us that sometimes we do not have, because we do not ask. I'm asking, Father. Please help these men bring her home. In Jesus name I pray. Amen

Amen, CBB...When 2 or more agree in His name.  I know there's more than 2 that are agreeing with you in your prayer.
Roos~

[private eye]

October 11th 2006, Signing of contract for infrastructure


Malmok Property Development NV / GOLD COAST signs contract with BIC N.V.

 

Present:

Mr. Rudy Croes: Project Developer

Mr. Fito Croes: Project Developer

Mr. Tony Williams: Cold Coast Project Manager

Mr. Boy De Kort: Managing Director BIC N.V.

Mr. Anthony Thiel: Director Thiel Corporation

Mr. Gerard de Veer : Aruba Investment Bank / Financing Bank

Oranjestad- Yesterday, Gold Coast, Aruba’s newest privately gated residential community located in Malmok, signed the contract of road construction and infrastructure with BIC N.V.

BIC N.V., a sister company of Thiel Corporation N.V., is specialized in site development, road construction and installation of infrastructure. All the expertise and machinery of the infrastructure division of Thiel Corporation are incorporated in this new Aruban Company. According to Mr. Boy de Kort, “We are committed to provide our best quality of work in a professional and timely manner, and we are very excited to be part of this amazing project”.

The AFL 5,000,000.00 road and infrastructure project is set to start on October 18th and is scheduled to be completed in 10 months.

The scope of work will consist of the construction of roads, side-walks and parking, as well as the excavations and installations of sewer lines and underground utility infrastructure networks.

According to Mr. Fito Croes and Mr. Rudy Croes, Project Developers, “This is a very important milestone for us, as it also marks the start of construction of the total US $ 65,000,000.00 Gold Coast project”.

http://www.goldcoastaruba.com/newsDtls.aspx?id=15


Mr Croes is the son of a school teacher, who was a lab technician previously, who is now the Minister of Justice despite having no legal training. His Dad was Betico Croes whom is considered the liberator of Aruba and he believed that the future of Aruba was in providing tourism for the US citizens. Betico was killed in an accident/murder the night of Aruba's liberation, at the age of 48 and obviously didn't leave Rudy a large sum of money. A lab technician doesn't make enough to accumulate a large sum of money, nor does the job as the Minister of Justice. So how does Rudy Croes now afford a project of this magnitude?

MONEY LAUNDERING-BRIBES-PAYOFFS????????? HARD WORK-SHREWD BUSINESS DECISIONS? HAS TO BE ONE OF THE TWO


The developers of Gold Coast Villas received financial support from the Aruba Investment Bank, Banco di Caribe, and a group of prominent international investors

Why do the Betico Croes family insist on occupying the Minister of Justice position. First Hendrik, Betico's brother, followed by Rudy, Betico's son? Apparently it pays quite well.
 

[Port Valerie]

In addition, when we go to Daylight Saving Time in the spring, the East coast of the US will be the same time as Aruba, and Alabama will be 1 hour behind.  Right now, it's 1 hour ahead of the EST of the US and 2 hours ahead CST.

No, Daylight Saving Time is in the winter.

From spring until fall (including May 30) the east coast is on Eastern Standard Time (EST) and so is Aruba. In the fall, the east coast "turns back the clock" but Aruba does not. Thus, from spring until fall if it is 4 o'clock on the east coast, it is 4 o'clock in Aruba. From fall, through the winter, if it is 4 o'clock on the east coast, it is 5 o'clock in Aruba.

The whole point of Daylight Saving Time is to have more light in the morning so that the kiddies don't fall off their school buses. I believe DST is nationwide. Indiana and Arizona were the only states that didn't observe it uniformly. Indiana changed its rules a few years ago so it too is on DST.

I don't know about Alabama. It is either Eastern Daylight Time or Central Daylight Time right now. If Eastern time, it is one  hour behind Aruba. If Central time, it is two hours behind Aruba right now.

 

[2NJSons_Mom]

In addition, when we go to Daylight Saving Time in the spring, the East coast of the US will be the same time as Aruba, and Alabama will be 1 hour behind.  Right now, it's 1 hour ahead of the EST of the US and 2 hours ahead CST.

No, Daylight Saving Time is in the winter.

From spring until fall (including May 30) the east coast is on Eastern Standard Time (EST) and so is Aruba. In the fall, the east coast "turns back the clock" but Aruba does not. Thus, from spring until fall if it is 4 o'clock on the east coast, it is 4 o'clock in Aruba. From fall, through the winter, if it is 4 o'clock on the east coast, it is 5 o'clock in Aruba.

The whole point of Daylight Saving Time is to have more light in the morning so that the kiddies don't fall off their school buses. I believe DST is nationwide. Indiana and Arizona were the only states that didn't observe it uniformly. Indiana changed its rules a few years ago so it too is on DST.

I don't know about Alabama. It is either Eastern Daylight Time or Central Daylight Time right now. If Eastern time, it is one  hour behind Aruba. If Central time, it is two hours behind Aruba right now.

 

[Port Valerie]

Buckeye,
Aruba is on the same time as east coast of the USA.
So 9pm Aruba would be 8pm Alabama

True from spring until fall.

Not true from fall until spring.

From spring until fall, Aruba and our east coast are on Eastern Standard Time.

From fall until spring, our east coast is on Daylight Saving Time. (Eastern Daylight Time, EDT.) Aruba carries on without "changing its clocks." Therefore, our east coast "falls behind" all the Eastern Standard Time countries by one hour. If it is 8 o'clock in the summer, it becomes 7 o'clock in the summer.

Standard Time is the base. Daylight Saving Time is an artificial correction to allow more daylight in the morning in the winter.

[Port Valerie]

typo. It becomes 7 o'clock in the winter.

[2NJSons_Mom]

In addition, when we go to Daylight Saving Time in the spring, the East coast of the US will be the same time as Aruba, and Alabama will be 1 hour behind.  Right now, it's 1 hour ahead of the EST of the US and 2 hours ahead CST.

No, Daylight Saving Time is in the winter.

From spring until fall (including May 30) the east coast is on Eastern Standard Time (EST) and so is Aruba. In the fall, the east coast "turns back the clock" but Aruba does not. Thus, from spring until fall if it is 4 o'clock on the east coast, it is 4 o'clock in Aruba. From fall, through the winter, if it is 4 o'clock on the east coast, it is 5 o'clock in Aruba.

The whole point of Daylight Saving Time is to have more light in the morning so that the kiddies don't fall off their school buses. I believe DST is nationwide. Indiana and Arizona were the only states that didn't observe it uniformly. Indiana changed its rules a few years ago so it too is on DST.

I don't know about Alabama. It is either Eastern Daylight Time or Central Daylight Time right now. If Eastern time, it is one  hour behind Aruba. If Central time, it is two hours behind Aruba right now.

 

Let me try this again...   I hit post before I wanted to....

PV...we are saying the same thing, except for the sentences I bolded.  This is where we disagree.  Not wanting to bog down this thread with time zone posts...daylight savings is spring through fall.  The original purpose was to conserve energy and I've read it had to do with agricultural needs, in addition to the info on the link below (there were several to choose from in a search). 

http://www.snopes.com/info/notes/daylight.asp

[Nut44x4]

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3277/8/


Another Suicide  on One Happy Island. Why so many if it is so damn happy there
I don't see anyone hanging w/ hand in pocket on this one though. Maybe a domestic problem led to this? Pretty sad.....at Christmastime .

[Port Valerie]

2njsons_mom --

Well, i do believe you're correct. I looked up your Snopes link, another link, and Wikipedia. Daylight Saving is in the summer time.

Ignore everything I said. I have to think this through again.

My only excuse is that I grew up in Indiana. Each county was allowed to choose whether to go on DST or not. It was a mess. Half the year we were on Chicago time; the other half we were on New York time. But your friend in the next town could be an hour different.

Thank you for the correction. I now have to readjust my entire concept of life and time. 

[dennisintn]

2njsons_mom --

Well, i do believe you're correct. I looked up your Snopes link, another link, and Wikipedia. Daylight Saving is in the summer time.

Ignore everything I said. I have to think this through again.

My only excuse is that I grew up in Indiana. Each county was allowed to choose whether to go on DST or not. It was a mess. Half the year we were on Chicago time; the other half we were on New York time. But your friend in the next town could be an hour different.

Thank you for the correction. I now have to readjust my entire concept of life and time. 

yeah, and don't forget to figure in that space/time compendium thing while you're at it.
dennisintn

[Anna]

October 11th 2006, Signing of contract for infrastructure


Malmok Property Development NV / GOLD COAST signs contract with BIC N.V.

 

Present:

Mr. Rudy Croes: Project Developer

Mr. Fito Croes: Project Developer

Mr. Tony Williams: Cold Coast Project Manager

Mr. Boy De Kort: Managing Director BIC N.V.

Mr. Anthony Thiel: Director Thiel Corporation

Mr. Gerard de Veer : Aruba Investment Bank / Financing Bank

Oranjestad- Yesterday, Gold Coast, Aruba’s newest privately gated residential community located in Malmok, signed the contract of road construction and infrastructure with BIC N.V.

BIC N.V., a sister company of Thiel Corporation N.V., is specialized in site development, road construction and installation of infrastructure. All the expertise and machinery of the infrastructure division of Thiel Corporation are incorporated in this new Aruban Company. According to Mr. Boy de Kort, “We are committed to provide our best quality of work in a professional and timely manner, and we are very excited to be part of this amazing project”.

The AFL 5,000,000.00 road and infrastructure project is set to start on October 18th and is scheduled to be completed in 10 months.

The scope of work will consist of the construction of roads, side-walks and parking, as well as the excavations and installations of sewer lines and underground utility infrastructure networks.

According to Mr. Fito Croes and Mr. Rudy Croes, Project Developers, “This is a very important milestone for us, as it also marks the start of construction of the total US $ 65,000,000.00 Gold Coast project”.

http://www.goldcoastaruba.com/newsDtls.aspx?id=15


Mr Croes is the son of a school teacher, who was a lab technician previously, who is now the Minister of Justice despite having no legal training. His Dad was Betico Croes whom is considered the liberator of Aruba and he believed that the future of Aruba was in providing tourism for the US citizens. Betico was killed in an accident/murder the night of Aruba's liberation, at the age of 48 and obviously didn't leave Rudy a large sum of money. A lab technician doesn't make enough to accumulate a large sum of money, nor does the job as the Minister of Justice. So how does Rudy Croes now afford a project of this magnitude?

MONEY LAUNDERING-BRIBES-PAYOFFS????????? HARD WORK-SHREWD BUSINESS DECISIONS? HAS TO BE ONE OF THE TWO


The developers of Gold Coast Villas received financial support from the Aruba Investment Bank, Banco di Caribe, and a group of prominent international investors

Why do the Betico Croes family insist on occupying the Minister of Justice position. First Hendrik, Betico's brother, followed by Rudy, Betico's son? Apparently it pays quite well.
 

That's quite a bit of indebtedness for two people.  My, my!  Lots of people in Aruba have lots of money invested in tourism.  The Aruban government is in debt for the new cruise ship dock with the number of cruise ships down some 44%.  The government also owns many of the actual hotel buildings and all the land along the manmade beaches.  They only "lease" it so the drop in tourism has to effect the ability of the government as well as these individuals to keep up with their payments.

Thence the big bucks PR campaigns sponsored by the government which is totally and completely intertwined with AHATA and the tourism industry which would be a private matter in most allegedly democratic countries. 

Problems arise with the mixing of government and what should be private enterprise and the financial interest of those in power over-ride the ability
of the govern,ment to do its job.

Nothing short of a just resolution to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway is ever going to give Aruba back its reputation and time is running out for even that.  Soon it will be too late no matter what they might do in this regard, they will forever be known as a lawless place that preys on tourists.

.

[Port Valerie]

Fall to spring (winter) = Standard Time.
Spring to fall (summer) = Daylight Saving Time.

Florida, NY, East Coast = Eastern Time Zone.
Alabama = Central Time Zone.

Aruba appears to be in the Atlantic Time Zone.

Thus, our east coast is normally one hour behind Aruba. (If it's 9 o'clock there, it's 8 o'clock on our east coast and 7 o'clock in Alabama.) That's why all the Aruba meetings are taking place "one hour ahead of us" at this time of year, right now.

In the summer, Aruba carries on with no change but we advance to "catch up" with Aruba and all other Atlantic Standard countries. (If it's 9 o'clock there, it's 9 o'clock on our east coast, and 8 o'clock in Alabama.

On May 30th, 2005, Aruba was on the same time as the US east coast and one hour ahead of Alabama.

Mum, do I have it correct?

I think the missing link is, as usual, Aruba. I thought they were on US Eastern time but they're not -- they're on Atlantic Time.

 

[Helen Back]

October 11th 2006, Signing of contract for infrastructure


Malmok Property Development NV / GOLD COAST signs contract with BIC N.V.

 

Present:

Mr. Rudy Croes: Project Developer

Mr. Fito Croes: Project Developer

Mr. Tony Williams: Cold Coast Project Manager

Mr. Boy De Kort: Managing Director BIC N.V.

Mr. Anthony Thiel: Director Thiel Corporation

Mr. Gerard de Veer : Aruba Investment Bank / Financing Bank

Oranjestad- Yesterday, Gold Coast, Aruba’s newest privately gated residential community located in Malmok, signed the contract of road construction and infrastructure with BIC N.V.

BIC N.V., a sister company of Thiel Corporation N.V., is specialized in site development, road construction and installation of infrastructure. All the expertise and machinery of the infrastructure division of Thiel Corporation are incorporated in this new Aruban Company. According to Mr. Boy de Kort, “We are committed to provide our best quality of work in a professional and timely manner, and we are very excited to be part of this amazing project”.

The AFL 5,000,000.00 road and infrastructure project is set to start on October 18th and is scheduled to be completed in 10 months.

The scope of work will consist of the construction of roads, side-walks and parking, as well as the excavations and installations of sewer lines and underground utility infrastructure networks.

According to Mr. Fito Croes and Mr. Rudy Croes, Project Developers, “This is a very important milestone for us, as it also marks the start of construction of the total US $ 65,000,000.00 Gold Coast project”.

http://www.goldcoastaruba.com/newsDtls.aspx?id=15


Mr Croes is the son of a school teacher, who was a lab technician previously, who is now the Minister of Justice despite having no legal training. His Dad was Betico Croes whom is considered the liberator of Aruba and he believed that the future of Aruba was in providing tourism for the US citizens. Betico was killed in an accident/murder the night of Aruba's liberation, at the age of 48 and obviously didn't leave Rudy a large sum of money. A lab technician doesn't make enough to accumulate a large sum of money, nor does the job as the Minister of Justice. So how does Rudy Croes now afford a project of this magnitude?

MONEY LAUNDERING-BRIBES-PAYOFFS????????? HARD WORK-SHREWD BUSINESS DECISIONS? HAS TO BE ONE OF THE TWO


The developers of Gold Coast Villas received financial support from the Aruba Investment Bank, Banco di Caribe, and a group of prominent international investors

Why do the Betico Croes family insist on occupying the Minister of Justice position. First Hendrik, Betico's brother, followed by Rudy, Betico's son? Apparently it pays quite well.
 

Very interesting post, Private Eye.

Nothing should surprise me about Aruba, but it does.  Unbelievable that the minister of justice has such a HUGE CONFLICT OF INTEREST between his government position and a commercial investment. 

This is the stuff that needs to be publicized widely, and yet another reason (as if we need another) NOT TO TRAVEL TO ARUBA! 

NO SEMBLANCE OF JUSTICE CAN EXIST where investments for the justice minister and his partners are jeopardized by the pursuit of justice.

What a rathole!

From the Gold Coast website:

 http://www.goldcoastaruba.com/newsDtls.aspx?id=9

Malmok Property Development N.V., developer of Gold Coast Villas, is a sister company of the local family-owned construction and development company CAS BON N.V.,  a company with over 10 years experience in construction and private community development. The developers of Gold Coast Villas received financial support from the Aruba Investment Bank, Banco di Caribe, and a group of prominent international investors.

 

Gold Coast Villas’ main goal is to guarantee a worry-free and safe environment for its homeowners, by taking care of its residents and providing exceptional services that include individual home security, short and long term rental, property management, and a state-of-the-art wireless service never seen before on the island.

 

Furthermore, the 60 million Dollar investment will contribute generously to Aruba’s economy, supporting both the private sector and Governmental agencies, by creating a positive impact on local construction companies, landscaping businesses, furniture providers, engineering and architectural firms, law and notary offices, industrial and personnel service and utility suppliers, as well as on tax revenue services.



Natalee's Justice never had a chance.  It would have messed up the sales of the new GOLD COAST  TIME SHARE project.

SICKENING!

[private eye]

October 11th 2006, Signing of contract for infrastructure


Malmok Property Development NV / GOLD COAST signs contract with BIC N.V.

 

Present:

Mr. Rudy Croes: Project Developer

Mr. Fito Croes: Project Developer

Mr. Tony Williams: Cold Coast Project Manager

Mr. Boy De Kort: Managing Director BIC N.V.

Mr. Anthony Thiel: Director Thiel Corporation

Mr. Gerard de Veer : Aruba Investment Bank / Financing Bank

Oranjestad- Yesterday, Gold Coast, Aruba’s newest privately gated residential community located in Malmok, signed the contract of road construction and infrastructure with BIC N.V.

BIC N.V., a sister company of Thiel Corporation N.V., is specialized in site development, road construction and installation of infrastructure. All the expertise and machinery of the infrastructure division of Thiel Corporation are incorporated in this new Aruban Company. According to Mr. Boy de Kort, “We are committed to provide our best quality of work in a professional and timely manner, and we are very excited to be part of this amazing project”.

The AFL 5,000,000.00 road and infrastructure project is set to start on October 18th and is scheduled to be completed in 10 months.

The scope of work will consist of the construction of roads, side-walks and parking, as well as the excavations and installations of sewer lines and underground utility infrastructure networks.

According to Mr. Fito Croes and Mr. Rudy Croes, Project Developers, “This is a very important milestone for us, as it also marks the start of construction of the total US $ 65,000,000.00 Gold Coast project”.

http://www.goldcoastaruba.com/newsDtls.aspx?id=15


Mr Croes is the son of a school teacher, who was a lab technician previously, who is now the Minister of Justice despite having no legal training. His Dad was Betico Croes whom is considered the liberator of Aruba and he believed that the future of Aruba was in providing tourism for the US citizens. Betico was killed in an accident/murder the night of Aruba's liberation, at the age of 48 and obviously didn't leave Rudy a large sum of money. A lab technician doesn't make enough to accumulate a large sum of money, nor does the job as the Minister of Justice. So how does Rudy Croes now afford a project of this magnitude?

MONEY LAUNDERING-BRIBES-PAYOFFS????????? HARD WORK-SHREWD BUSINESS DECISIONS? HAS TO BE ONE OF THE TWO


The developers of Gold Coast Villas received financial support from the Aruba Investment Bank, Banco di Caribe, and a group of prominent international investors

Why do the Betico Croes family insist on occupying the Minister of Justice position. First Hendrik, Betico's brother, followed by Rudy, Betico's son? Apparently it pays quite well.
 

That's quite a bit of indebtedness for two people.  My, my!  Lots of people in Aruba have lots of money invested in tourism.  The Aruban government is in debt for the new cruise ship dock with the number of cruise ships down some 44%.  The government also owns many of the actual hotel buildings and all the land along the manmade beaches.  They only "lease" it so the drop in tourism has to effect the ability of the government as well as these individuals to keep up with their payments.

Thence the big bucks PR campaigns sponsored by the government which is totally and completely intertwined with AHATA and the tourism industry which would be a private matter in most allegedly democratic countries. 

Problems arise with the mixing of government and what should be private enterprise and the financial interest of those in power over-ride the ability
of the govern,ment to do its job.

Nothing short of a just resolution to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway is ever going to give Aruba back its reputation and time is running out for even that.  Soon it will be too late no matter what they might do in this regard, they will forever be known as a lawless place that preys on tourists.

.

I am a big fan of capitalism and upward mobility, but the Croes seem to be financial wizard. He must also be an extremely hard worker as his job as Minister of Justice should be a full time job itself. Rudy has no law degree and he manages to do it in his spare time

[Observer]

Hat tip:WJ
Map of the ocean depths surrounding Aruba
http://maps.bpl.org/viewer.jspx?id=05_04_000122

[sirensong]

Father,
Out on the waters, far away from their home this Christmas, is a group of pure hearted brave men. You know exactly where they are, just as you know where the child they seek was left. She is your child by her decision and your divine promise, Beth and Dave's by birth, and our sister in your Son. She has become a daughter to the World through the circumstances of her death and it's shock of the eternal conflict between good and evil.

Lord, we have explored the evil trying to untangle the web of lies, hate, and debauchery with one goal. We have sought to right the wrong to every extent possible; our hearts have yearned to bring hope, and justice to her family through whatever means we had available to us.

At this moment, that group of searchers is seeking to bring comfort to Natalee's family, and by your infallible word, that cause is aligned to your purpose. These men are exhibiting your perfect love through their own sacrifice for a child they do not know. You defined that sacrificial love of us all through your Son, whose birth we honor this day. Please God, guide the ship, whisper to the crew, bless the answer to the call, for these men have responded to your voice to help others at no gain to themselves. Please Lord, let them find her remains and bring her home away from the evil and deliver her into the safekeeping of her family.

Lord, I thank you for sending these men and pray that you will somehow let them know that our eyes watch with warm hearts touched by their unselfishness and skill they are lending to this purpose. Indeed, if they return without her, their effort has already been a beautiful tribute to good, and a light to answer the darkness surrounding what happened to Natalee.

We pray for your hand to allow them to bring her out of Aruba, out of the evil, and away from the clutches of that place. That is not where you placed her, Lord. Please bring her home. You have instructed us that sometimes we do not have, because we do not ask. I'm asking, Father. Please help these men bring her home. In Jesus name I pray. Amen

Amen, CBB...When 2 or more agree in His name.  I know there's more than 2 that are agreeing with you in your prayer.
Roos~

Yes, there are more than 2 gathered in his name.  Beautiful prayer CBB.  Amen.

[Port Valerie]

I join in the prayer. Amen.