Natalee Case Discussion #707 12/22 - 12/28/2007

[Observer]

The above article should be interesting to read when its translated. Not sure if that guy has been arrested or suspected of something? I translated the part about Judith Martinez as it looks like she dissapeared from Aruba 7 years ago and no one knows where she is.

but esey not t'e unique caso, have also esun of the child muher judith martinez that owing to desaparence 7 years happen y till still none person know where the is

but esey not t'e unique caso, have also esun of the child muher judith martinez that owing to desaparence 7 years happen y till still none person know where the is

[IBE]

When I look at the shallow and deeper water, I wonder what the boat traffic was on Monday night.  Would there have been cruise ships arriving and departing?  Any late night traffic from the Soul Beach concert?  Maybe an early morning ferry?

Does anyone know where the cell pings off Aruba came from?  Which peninsula?  Perhaps both?

Re: boat traffic in and out of Aruba.. on a TV interview, Dompig, was bragging about the tracing machine or something like that which the Aruban Police have that traces, knows all the boat traffic. He actually pointed out the machine in this tV interview.

However, if I remember correctly, he said that one night it was down. Wonder if someone has the tape of this interview and if the date the machine was down is important.

TIA

[Observer]

6 minute Video: The Search for Natalee Holloway - R/V Persistence Dec 26, 2007
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

[Nut44x4]

*******.....I have seen that guys picture in several papers since the end of November. I don't think it's related to the new article.



http://tinyurl.com/3csgp9   (Bondia link)
 Hoben Jose Manuel Vicenzo disappeared Tromp
Tuesday, 04 December 2007
 ORANJESTAD - Ayera to us drenta the courtroom di redaccion and news cu hoben and Jose Manuel Vicenso Tromp take disappeared. Awe e ta haci un siman cu ningun hende sa di su paradero. Awe and take haci a siman cu no hende sa di their whereabouts. Jose Manuel conoci cariñosamente como “Vicenzo” tabatin bisti short y slof, ora cu el a desaparece misteriosamente diamars 27 di november ultimo. Jose Manuel affectionately known as "Vicenzo" tabatin bisti short and slof, prays to the cu disappears mysteriously diamars di 27 last November.

E situacion aki tin tur su famia preocupa. E location aki tin turn its famia concerned. Cualkier persona cu por suminista informacion riba paradero di e hoben Jose manuel Vicenzo Tromp tuma contacto cu Polis of yama libremente na tel. Cualkier person per cu suminista information riba whereabouts and di Vicenzo hoben Jose manuel Tromp tuma contact cu Polis of yama freely nu tel. 582-4122. Cualkier informacion ta balioso. Cualkier take balioso information.

[Tylergal]

Janet,

I agree with you as I think it's more than a coincidence about this white truck. I think its possible she was put in a shallow grave(Fransisco),then the landfill(Junior) and then out to sea(Gottenbos). Dompig told us his theory that she was moved around and may have been buried more than once. Why would he say that? What did he base his theory on?

And he said it as though this is just the most normal thing ever.  One of the most ghoulish TV interviews I have ever seen in my life and yet, he said all that about digging up and moving as though it is something that happens every day in Aruba.

Anna, what Dompig said is a reminder of how third-world countries are and who still think the same way.  Anytime I see one of those suicide bombings in Pakistan or Iran, I think but for the American enterprises in Aruba, there is no difference, just a bunch of third-world illiterates allowing the caste system and dictators to tell them what to think and do. In fact, there is not a class of Arubans as intelligent as there is in the middle east, otherwise ,we would have a litany of physicians and attorneys out of Aruba.  See Jossy's family came to Aruba from the Middle East via the USA, the reason he is so smart.

[Tylergal]

Now i am back to rooting for the DrPhil case to go forward, and for the Kalpoes to give their version of the 'truth'.

And how Satish can be asleep - and on the phone - at the same time.

Somewhere along the way, Joran must have found out about Satish's exchange with this girl and maybe that is when he changed his story about how picked him up from the Fisherman's Huts.

He always changed his story to meet the facts as presented in the dossier and seemed to be the only one of the three with access to it.  He kept shifting and the Kalpoes, without that guidance, remained the same in their stories,

IMO

.

Isn't it interesting, Anna, how his stories seemed to changed by the day, and the hour, etc.

He could have named his book "Confessions du Jour," "Confessions of an admitted Liar," "How Aruba Turns on Tourists," "Tourists Lost and Tourism Dying," "How we Drug American Girls," "Aruba- Its Lively Drug Trade, Its Dying Tourism," "How I single Handedly Killed Aruba's Economy," authored by Joran in corroboration with AHATA.

[NYC_lover]

NEWS:
Pakistani leader of the opposition, Benazir Bhutto 54, has been killed at a suicide attack in Rawalpindi.

[NYC_lover]

Is this guy familiar to Aruba?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1lYs5STbA8

[klaasend]

Posted on the front page of SM this morning - have no idea what it's all about:

gerard on December 27th, 2007 9:45 am

For our friends in America who are just as concerned about the tragic dissapearance of Natalee Holloway.

I just saw on Dutch television that the remains of what is looking to be a young woman have been found near an old goldmine. Rumor is, it might be Natalee. Only 2 miles from the Van der Sloots residence. Pure excitement is rushing over the Island.

Just seen on RTL news, The Netherlands. Let´s hope the guilty will be found soon and get the chair !

[Tylergal]

Posted on the front page of SM this morning - have no idea what it's all about:

gerard on December 27th, 2007 9:45 am

For our friends in America who are just as concerned about the tragic dissapearance of Natalee Holloway.

I just saw on Dutch television that the remains of what is looking to be a young woman have been found near an old goldmine. Rumor is, it might be Natalee. Only 2 miles from the Van der Sloots residence. Pure excitement is rushing over the Island.

Just seen on RTL news, The Netherlands. Let´s hope the guilty will be found soon and get the chair !

Do you think this is a fairy tale. 

[NYC_lover]

Posted on the front page of SM this morning - have no idea what it's all about:

gerard on December 27th, 2007 9:45 am

For our friends in America who are just as concerned about the tragic dissapearance of Natalee Holloway.

I just saw on Dutch television that the remains of what is looking to be a young woman have been found near an old goldmine. Rumor is, it might be Natalee. Only 2 miles from the Van der Sloots residence. Pure excitement is rushing over the Island.

Just seen on RTL news, The Netherlands. Let´s hope the guilty will be found soon and get the chair !

Let me watch RTL. Or to see its correct.

[klaasend]

NYC - Thanks!

[NM]

OFF TOPIC
Monkeys sorry for O/T

Can anyone recommend a good or decent Cancer hospital in New Jersey area?
Please post in Musing thread
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2363.new#new

Thank you and sorry to just jump in.
Love,
NM

[Magnolia]

6 minute Video: The Search for Natalee Holloway - R/V Persistence Dec 26, 2007
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

Cool video.....made me wonder who is doing the cooking....did they bring
a cook or are they taking turns cooking?

[NYC_lover]

NYC - Thanks!

You are welcome!

I can nothing find. It does not stay in online newspapers De Telegraaf and NU, not at TV telex, (from many TV televisions) not at RTL news online. Here an overview from TV programms from RTL news senders. We have 3 RTL senders in the Netherlands. When he had watching something, he had watching RTL Z/RTL 7. And when there was any news, De Telegraaf has directly published when they had heard that news. But when I see anything or hear anything I want post it directly.

15:10 - 15:40
Married with children RTL 4
15:40 - 16:00
Oprah Winfrey show RTL 4

14:00 - 15:30
Best of shopping RTL 5
15:30 - 16:10
Tel sell RTL 5

14:00 - 14:20
RTL Z Nieuws RTL 7 
14:20 - 14:40
Terre des Hommes, de verantwoording RTL 7
14:40 - 17:45
RTL Z Nieuws RTL 7

[private eye]

Refugee Posters (they really don't deserve to be capitalized do they?) are always citing all of the people who go missing in the US and else where. They are always pondering in their little pea size brains, and in the case of their star posters that is an exaggeration of size:), why is this case so special, we just don't get it. Well as they say the dumb always seem to get dumber.

 This is not a case of a missing girl, nor actually an unsolved mystery any more. We know Natalee was killed and sexually assaulted by the actions of the known perverts. This is a case is about the first sovereign nation to be owned by organized crime. This case is about a nation who allows it's citizens to humiliate and torture our citizens by methodically and publicly gathering evidence, including confessions, of the murder and rape of their children and then openly destroying the evidence and saying "guess what, no evidence of a crime committed here." This case is about a country who toys with the emotions and the sorrows of their grieving mothers. This case is about a nation who committs fraud against our citizens by spending millions of dollars creating a false facade of a safe and scenic tourist attraction to lure tourist into their borders to separate the tourists and their dollars while accomplishing their lucrative industry of laundering the dirty money of violent criminals. This case is about a country that then allows its citizens and juveniles to drug and rape our women, provide illegal drugs to our teens, and to create an environment that encourages binge drinking and illicit drug use by our youth. This case is about a nation whose primary business is the shipment of illegal drugs out of South America into Europe, the United States, and Canada; and the shipment from Holland into the same countries of the illegal drug of which they are the worlds largest manufacturer, XTC.

Their profits come from the creation of misery in civilized nations. Their response is that it is not their fault that the civilized countries cannot control their citizens and their borders. They further respond that it is the decision of Aruba's citizens as exercised by their votes to allow this climate to exist in Aruba as they are a sovereign, democratic nation. Well I think it is time the United States responds to Aruba. And for once I agree with Aruba, a boycott is simply not appropriate. We need more than a boycott.

1) We do not owe you our tourist's dollars. The investment of these dollars in your borders is counter productive to our national defense and the security of our citizens. Therefore we are going to impose a sizeable tariff to discourage all travel to and from Aruba until your citizens decide to clean up their borders. And for the Aruban's who don't understand, that means vote the crooks off of the island. Or ask for help and lets throw the crooks off of the island. We don't need another Cuba or a Disneyland for organized crime in our back yard.

2) As Aruba has so correctly pointed out, we have not been successful in protecting our borders and it is not Aruba's fault that our citizen's lives have been destroyed by the availability of cheap, powerful cocaine exported into our borders from Aruba; as well as XTC via Holland thru Aruba. So we will now create a special designation of Aruba as an openly declared drug conduit into the United States and implement a program whereby all boat traffic of any size is searched by our Navy prior to entering or departing from Aruba to anywhere. In addition all air traffic into and out of Aruba where allowed by law or treaty of the US will be searched for contraband as well.

3) All internet commerce that originates from the borders of Aruba will be banned by law.

4) All matters involving banking that touch US taxable concerns be taxed.

If we don't address the fact that organized crime owns Aruba and that Aruba is for sell to anyone regardless, just how long is it before Aruba turns to Al Queda, enemies of the US, and terrorists for business. Their central bank has already warned them that they must diversify their economy. They have already made it plain that it is not their job to protect our borders, that it is the fault of our citizens that they ship powerfully addictive substances to our citizens, and that our youth don't exercise restraint when offered alcohol, drugs, prostitution, and gambling to them in Aruba. They obviously shed no tears over the premature, violent death of our youth by the children of the leaders of their country. They have no remore for causing further pain to be inflicted onto a grieving family for the loss of a daughter. So do we think they will object to a nuclear bomb exploding in our borders if it is shipped into our borders thru their country? I think not. I can see this same cast of criminals celebrating and high fiving each other saying it is the fault of the US for creating it's enemies. I can see them saying how inept our government is for failing to protect our borders from terrorists, just like they failed to prohibit the shipment of sin from Aruba for decades, just like they failed to protect our citizens from the false advertising of Aruba, and just like they failed to stop Aruba from circumventing our war on drugs. To Aruba it will be no surprise and no sorrow. Rather cause for celebration and more money in the bank.

[Magnolia]

Getagrip posted this translation from Amigoe re: the search
It is rather negative toward the end.

12.27.2007
Persistance continues wit expedition to Holloway

The Persistance searching the seabed for the remains of Natalee Holloway.

Amigoe.com
12/24/2007


ORANJESTAD – The decision of the Public Prosecutor to dismiss the Holloway-case has no effect on the investigation of the special ship Persistance, emphasized the crew that started to scan the seabed around Aruba on Tuesday. With the best equipment in the world, they are trying to find Holloway. Dave Holloway, Natalee’s father announced the arrival of the ship one month ago. However, the ship’s arrival was delayed by the tropical storm Olga.

The ship has modern sonological-equipment that can scan up to 4000 meters deep.

The ship can scan very deep seabeds. The ship will first determine the topographical situation of the sea around Aruba till the sea border with Venezuela. The speed of the sound under water is measured with a sound velocity profile (SVP). This is needed for the calculation of data during the scan. Strange abnormal forms on the seabed can be captured with that.

Maritime geologist Kyle Kingman, who maintains a blog about the expedition on www.nholloway.blogspot.com compares the seabed with an ‘old living creature from the end of the cretaceous period, full of stories’. “We know that this creature is making sure that he does not abandon his secrets”, writes Kingman. He expects though that when the side scan sonar is activated, the contents of each split is going to be revealed and can be seen on a monitor in the computer room. He says though that it remains difficult, like a shopping cart in an area as big as Manhattan.

The search is of course going to cost a lot. There are 18 people working with the most modern and expensive instruments on board of the ship. Project manager Tim Miller doesn’t want to confirm that millions of dollars in donations are paying for this search. “We don’t want media-attention; we only want to do our job.” He only wanted to talk to Diario. Also the office of the organization Texas Equusearch (TES), of which Miller is the founder, doesn’t want to say anything. This abundantly sponsored American organization is specialized in search actions for mainly missing fellow country persons. TES has already searched for Natalee two years ago, but only to a depth of 100 meters at that time.

The organization receives a lot of monetary- as well as emotional support on the weblog. This support is mainly from people that give the Lord’s blessing and that ask everybody to pray for the crew on the ship and the Holloway family. Criticism is not really tolerated on the website. These are not even added to the log. An anonymous informant is wondering whether the authorities are on board of the ship for if they find evidence. The lawyers of the former suspects are afraid that evidence can be planted by the crew. “They may just drop or add a purse for example.”

The OM does not cooperate with the search action, but wants to be kept informed of whatever is discovered that can be of interest. It is not known whether the crew has applied for a work permit for the search with the government.



// posted by Getagrip @ 12/27/2007 08:46:00 AM 
12.24.2007

[robots]

ARUBA IS A HELL HOLE

PAULUS IS A KILLER


JORAN IS A KILLER


I WISH JOE T would attempt to SUE ME for stating my opinion

JOE T SUCKS
 

[Dayhiker]

If we don't address the fact that organized crime owns Aruba and that Aruba is for sell to anyone regardless, just how long is it before Aruba turns to Al Queda, enemies of the US, and terrorists for business. Their central bank has already warned them that they must diversify their economy. They have already made it plain that it is not their job to protect our borders, that it is the fault of our citizens that they ship powerfully addictive substances to our citizens, and that our youth don't exercise restraint when offered alcohol, drugs, prostitution, and gambling to them in Aruba. They obviously shed no tears over the premature, violent death of our youth by the children of the leaders of their country. They have no remore for causing further pain to be inflicted onto a grieving family for the loss of a daughter. So do we think they will object to a nuclear bomb exploding in our borders if it is shipped into our borders thru their country? I think not. I can see this same cast of criminals celebrating and high fiving each other saying it is the fault of the US for creating it's enemies. I can see them saying how inept our government is for failing to protect our borders from terrorists, just like they failed to prohibit the shipment of sin from Aruba for decades, just like they failed to protect our citizens from the false advertising of Aruba, and just like they failed to stop Aruba from circumventing our war on drugs. To Aruba it will be no surprise and no sorrow. Rather cause for celebration and more money in the bank.

Great post, PI! Aruba is a terrorist state. They allow tourists to be drugged and disappeared. Then they make sure the murderers never go to prison. It is not safe and our government should ban U.S. travel to the island.

ARUBA = IRAN

[crazybabyborg]

Posted on the front page of SM this morning - have no idea what it's all about:

gerard on December 27th, 2007 9:45 am

For our friends in America who are just as concerned about the tragic dissapearance of Natalee Holloway.

I just saw on Dutch television that the remains of what is looking to be a young woman have been found near an old goldmine. Rumor is, it might be Natalee. Only 2 miles from the Van der Sloots residence. Pure excitement is rushing over the Island.

Just seen on RTL news, The Netherlands. Let´s hope the guilty will be found soon and get the chair !

  Have we heard any more about this? Are there Gold mines in Aruba?