Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28 - 12/30/07

[Anna]

Anyone remember Gerben?  He was Dutch and has legal information and was very civil and nice.  I wish he would answer our questions.

.

[Observer]

Asked why it took investigators more than two weeks after Holloway's disappearance to search the van der Sloot home, Janssen said Thursday, ``You have to build up an investigation. You can't just go in there like a cowboy, you have to give certain direction to investigators.''

Yeh right,They searched the two innocent security's guards house who they tried to frame,immediately when they were arrested. I am extremely anxious to get to the bottom of why that house was never searched in 2005. Judge Wit changed the Warrant or Paul's buddies in the OM including the AG that he worked for never requested the full search. As of right now I am to believe Judge Wit is lying and he changed the search. They are cooked and this is positive proof they covered up Natalee's murder and protected the Van Der SLoots.

[Anna]

I wonder what the penalty for subverting justice would be for a judge?  Prolly attending a night class on not doing that or something similar.  They are appointed for life and I bet they have the law worded to make sure that sticks.

.

[bleachedblack]

In case you are wondering why it is difficult to find some past news items previously available i, and if you haven't archived them yourself, maybe it is because you aren't spelling the individuals names WRONG ! 

++++++++++++++++++=

Police Chief Jan van Strantan said the two men are security guards at the Hotel Allegro, which is near the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.

At a Sunday news conference, van Strantan said police and the FBI determined that bloodstains on a mattress found earlier Sunday were from a dog.

Van Strantan called for the assistance of FBI diving teams to assist in the search.

He said authorities have not found any of Holloway's possessions among items police seized after taking the two men into custody at their homes in the southwestern Aruba town of San Nicolas.

The men were seen leaving their respective houses calmly and without resistance.

The men, ages 28 and 30, were not among the three men in whose company Holloway was last seen.

Police spent much of Saturday afternoon at Hotel Allegro, which is undergoing renovations. They refused to say what led them to the site or if they found anything.

Police said they have not ruled out kidnapping or foul play, but they insisted they are conducting their investigation as a missing person case.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/05/missing.teen/index.html

[Helen Back]

Asked why it took investigators more than two weeks after Holloway's disappearance to search the van der Sloot home, Janssen said Thursday, ``You have to build up an investigation. You can't just go in there like a cowboy, you have to give certain direction to investigators.''

Yeh right,They searched the two innocent security's guards house who they tried to frame,immediately when they were arrested. I am extremely anxious to get to the bottom of why that house was never searched in 2005. Judge Wit changed the Warrant or Paul's buddies in the OM including the AG that he worked for never requested the full search. As of right now I am to believe Judge Wit is lying and he changed the search. They are cooked and this is positive proof they covered up Natalee's murder and protected the Van Der SLoots.

On what planet would it not be SOP to search the home, person, cars, etc. of the ones last know to be with the one who is missing.  This is how you build up an investigation.....by investigating.  All persons last seen with one who is missing should be searched, investigated, interrogated, until police are able to eliminate them as suspects.  Standard operating procedure in any investigation....no special "build up needed"....anywhere else in the world. 

Janssen is dirty for her complicity and misinformation right out of the gate. 

Wit is a dirty criminal and a cowardly liar, a disgrace to his profession.

The Carribean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

[San]

WHERE IS SAN

HERE I AM 

[San]

I agree, Robots.

Who watches a person fall down several times and does nothing?  That is totally unacceptable.

.

That's because she never fell down.  He is trying to explain all the bruises on her if she was found.  The bruises cause by him beating her.

[Tylergal]

WHERE IS SAN

HERE I AM 

GOOD, GOOD, GOOD, GOOD TO SEE YOU, YOU ARE MISSED

[San]

WHERE IS SAN

San went back to work.  Not sure where she is tonight, probably out partying, LOLOL 

She needs to report to us.  She knows better than to not let us know.  Why some Aruban might be out partying and we would never know what happened to her.

First of all San does not party     Secondly if I were partying with an Aruban I think they would be the ones who would have to watch out. 

[San]

WHERE IS SAN

HERE I AM 

GOOD, GOOD, GOOD, GOOD TO SEE YOU, YOU ARE MISSED

Hi Tyler good to see you.  I am unable to log on SM at work and I do miss everyone.

[Observer]

Asked why it took investigators more than two weeks after Holloway's disappearance to search the van der Sloot home, Janssen said Thursday, ``You have to build up an investigation. You can't just go in there like a cowboy, you have to give certain direction to investigators.''

Yeh right,They searched the two innocent security's guards house who they tried to frame,immediately when they were arrested. I am extremely anxious to get to the bottom of why that house was never searched in 2005. Judge Wit changed the Warrant or Paul's buddies in the OM including the AG that he worked for never requested the full search. As of right now I am to believe Judge Wit is lying and he changed the search. They are cooked and this is positive proof they covered up Natalee's murder and protected the Van Der SLoots.

On what planet would it not be SOP to search the home, person, cars, etc. of the ones last know to be with the one who is missing.  This is how you build up an investigation.....by investigating.  All persons last seen with one who is missing should be searched, investigated, interrogated, until police are able to eliminate them as suspects.  Standard operating procedure in any investigation....no special "build up needed"....anywhere else in the world. 

Janssen is dirty for her complicity and misinformation right out of the gate. 

Wit is a dirty criminal and a cowardly liar, a disgrace to his profession.

The Carribean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

So they pretended to search the entire home 17 days later and even Anita was on TV telling the world they searched everything. Thank God De Vries found this valuable information that the search warrant was changed and the house was never searched.

Obviously whoever blocked the search was informed by Paul Van Der Sloot directly or indirectly the areas that cannot be searched. Natalee was absolutely at that house and if she didn't die there then she left a ton of forensic evidence and 17 days later they were still afraid that it would show up forensicly. Why didn't they search Paul Van Der Sloots bedroom when he was arrested? The Garden? The Main House? How about where the freshly poured concrete was? If they had nothing to hide then why in the hell did they fight so much to keep Investigators from searching the property?

[Helen Back]

I never (ever) saw this statement attributed to Rudy Croes before. I have to ask do we have the original source?

Aruban Authorities Investigate Blood in Car
Sunday, June 12, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Authorities investigating the disappearance of Alabama honors student Natalee Holloway were seeking clues on the source of blood found in the car used to transport the missing teen to the beach nearly two weeks ago, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes (search) said.

"We have found some blood in the car, but we don't know to whom it belongs," he said.

Spock,

I remember both Croes and Oduber saying this, one of them live on media right in front of Beth who had NOT yet heard this.  Oduber, I think that was.

That resulted in that most anguished of photos of her and the one from which many of us draw inspiration to this day, where she is walking away just devastated in tears and some guy trying to comfort her.

That man actually announced this to the media in this press conference right in front of Beth without having the decency to even warn the mother of the missing child in advance what he was going to say.

Things like that are why I am still here, the level of sheer cruelty that was totally unnecessary that they have shown. 

And we now know Rudy Croes has his $65 million project on the line.  Be a shame to build all those units and have no customers for him, wouldn't it?  Sort of like the new cruise dock they built on credit and now 44% decline in cruise ship activity. 

Someone gets to those who try to do a real investigation.  Dompig started off really trying as I believe did Mos.  Do they sit them down and show them the government books and how this is going to wreck the total economy or what?

.

I'm hoping someone will be able to provide a translation of the article regarding 17 year old female from Miami assaulted in Aruba.  It seemed to make mention of the fact that she was assaulted at a timeshare property....not sure.

A quick search for Aruba timeshares for sale yielded 400 results at just one site!

http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/searchsell.php?crt=on&country=11&price=&unitType=&bathrooms=&week=

I wonder how the owners who can't unload their timeshares on Aruba feel about Rudy's Gold Coast Aruba timeshare development? 

While not traditionally investments that appreciate a great deal, timeshares are usually "sellable" or "tradeable".  Looks like there will be a glut of timeshare properties on Aruba!


The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.



 

[San]

I guess the search warrant changed by itself then if Bob Wit didnt change it. According to De Vries the officers were shocked when they arrived to do a full search of the property and found out it was restricted just to Jorans bedroom and a  small part of the property.

What happened to the search warrant when PVDS was arrested on similar charges a week later? I guess that just dissapeared all together? Since when do Murder and Kidnapping suspects get immunity from having their property searched? IF WIT DIDNT CHANGE THE WARRANT THEN WHO DID? If WIt is saying thats all the Prosecuters asked for was Jorans Bedroom and the 2 cars,then they have some major explaining to do!

Didn't KJ tell Beth they weren't allowed to search the entire Sloot property.


BOB WIT looks like a relations to Paulus.  It's all in the family.  Let's quote Paulus "A lot of people would get hurt".  The entire Sloot family would go down.

[San]

This man looks like a pedophile.  Look at his face.  Ugh.

I agree and I'm not kidding he really does.

[Dayhiker]

Mos Says Part II
Dutch press     by Hannie   RU

PUBLISHED 27-12-07:

He criticized the overexposure of the story in the media, specially the sensationalists and tabloids, who when they had no information, would look for their own information; many times sidetracking the real investigators.

Any law enforcement official that blames the media is a pansy.


"Aruba is a safe place, it's not a place where there is relatively high crime activity, furthermore, the Aruban Police has a impeccable record in solving big crimes."

Horseshit. Where is Natalee Holloway?


When asked why couldn't they solve this case then, he replied "I don't know, but one thing for sure, I would not like to be in the shoes of the persons in charge of the investigation early on, not as a police officer or as a member of the Prosecutor's Office. It's now easier to talk about."

Hans, get a clue, they are hired to solve crimes. That's what law enforcement does. Get it?


PUBLISHED 28-12-07:

Mos answered: "I was not responsable for that, and it's not up to me to give an evaluation. But I can say that all decisions taken back then, were taken with integrity..." to the question, what his opinion was on the attack of the family that it took too long to arrest the former suspects in the case.

The decisions not to arrest the perps for 10 days and not search the entire Sloot residence were made with integrity? You are full of shit. These are the very reasons you couldn't solve the case, Idiot.


About his comments of errors made by the investigative team early on that was printed in a Dutch newspaper, he admitted that he talked to the newpapers de Telegraaf which is known for its sensationalism, but he denies that he said those words. "There were some things in the article that I never said, the only thing I said and confirmed to them was that there were some results not put on paper (PV), that we thought could had given us more information. So, that's why we went back and relistened to all recorded telephone conversations of the previous investigation. And based on that, we got some more things out."

It doesn't seem odd to you that important information was never ebtered into the record?


Once again, Mos said that he had no responsability in that and he has not enough information how that process went. "The only thing I can say, and it's a professional opinion after the fact, is that everything should have been investigated and all options eliminated." He continue saying that even if these options were not understood by others or no one agrees with them.

He believes that the investigation should be broadened in the States because "I can conclude that this was not done", but at this moment he does not think that the answers would be there.

"Then what was the U.S. trip by Dompig and his entourage to interview the students all about, Dumbass?


Mos confirmed that the island of Aruba and the Netherlands has spent between $5-$10 million dollars on the case, and that is excluding the salary costs. A small group of investigators are still assigned to the case, under the command of Dolphi Richardson to filter any new information that could come in the future.

Cry me a river. They could have saved all that if they hadn't corrupted the case to begin with.


He finished the interview with these words about the investigators: "We cannot say who and what was done, but I can say that the investigators in this case are so involved with it that even in their free time want to review the whole investigation. Even now that the case is cold, they are willing to keep it alive"

Yeah right. Talk is cheap. You haven't done shit and you won't do shit.
 

[Tamikosmom]

Well If Judge Bob Wit just said in the paper that the warrant only requested to search Joran's APT and the 2 cars then someone is lying there ass off and I think it's him.

Someone needs to speak up quickly,because the dirtbag that changed that warrant should be in jail. I believe Peter De Vries 100% but if for some reason the fault lied on the OM,AG and Jaren Janssen then someone needs to speak up right now. We know 7 days later PVDS was arrested for suspicion of murder and kidnapping but yet they never searched anything of his on the property.

It is absolutely unnaceptable and they are caught Red Handed Covering Up Natalee's Murder and Protecting the Van Der Sloots. Since when do Murder,Kidnapping and Rape suspects get immunity from having there entire property searched?

Natalee was absolutely in that main house and in back of the property by the garden. Bet it all

******* ... has an English translation of the Bon Dia Aruba  article where Bob Witt denies reducing the scope of the search been posted on the forum yet?

It appears that Beth and Peter Devries are on the same page as far as the contents of the search warrant which originated from the prosecutor's office.  Both of them are of the opinion that the contents dictated a full search.

However ... in October, 2005 ... Dompig claims that a full search warrant was denied by a judge following Joran's detainment and ... was denied again following Paulus' detainment.

Unless a copy of the search warrant surfaces ... I do believe that Bob Wit is going to win this one.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Peter De Vries
On the Record w/ Greta
November 27, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: What about the search of the van der Sloot property? Was that ever done, and was, you know--including, sort of, the cabana area where Joran lives?

DE VRIES: Well, the search in the home address of the family van der Sloot was very strange because the search warrant was made by head prosecutor Karin Janssen, and contained an allowance to search the whole address, “Montanja nineteen.” So, the gardens, the buildings--everything. But, when the police was on the spot, another high-ranking employee of the Justice office--it was Mr. Bob Wit--reduced the search warrant to only the room of Joran--and that was very strange.


Beth Twitty
MARTHA MCCALLUM
November 28, 2006
 
TWITTY: Well I think they will always have to look at there were two personnel involved from the Aruban Justice Department and that is why we do not have any evidence and that is what Joran’s attorney will have to be reminded of. It is because of Bob Witt and Ben King stopped the search warrants. It was made to initially search the entire area of Mon. 19 - the garden, the buildings and everything but on the spot a high ranking employee of the Justice Office, Bob Witt, reduced the search warrant to only the room of Joran so that’s why we do not have any evidence because of involvement of the obstruction from the Aruban Justice Department personnel.


http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/10/10/beth-twitty-credibility-1-nay-sayers-0/

Reporter: Okay, let me ask you about the search of Joran Van der Sloot house. Apparently this kid lived in an apartment that was connected to or sort of adjacent to his parents house.

Dompig: That is correct

Reporter: And the police only searched his apartment, deputy chief?

Dompig: That is correct. The fact is that we as a law enforcement agency always try to get the maximum. Meaning that we want to search as much places as possible. We were not granted by the judge a search warrant for the complete house, we only received the warrant for the apartment.

Reporter: But what about after Paul Van der Sloot was arrested, couldn’t you get a warrant to search the house then?

Dompig: It was also denied, we were a bit disappointed with that. The judge was coming from another island I must point out. He said we didn’t make a good enough case to get a warrant.

[Helen Back]

******* ... has an English translation of the Bon Dia Aruba  article where Bob Witt denies reducing the scope of the search been posted on the forum yet?

It appears that Beth and Peter Devries are on the same page as far as the contents of the search warrant which originated from the prosecutor's office.  Both of them are of the opinion that the contents dictated a full search.

However ... in October, 2005 ... Dompig claims that a full search warrant was denied by a judge following Joran's detainment and ... was denied again following Paulus' detainment.

Unless a copy of the search warrant surfaces ... I do believe that Bob Wit is going to win this one.

Janet

You may be right, Janet.  But can Wit explain what he was doing at the Sloot house in the first place?  According to the code of ethics of the Caribbean Court of Justice, he should not be at the Sloot house under any circumstance, especially in the midst of missing person investigation.

He interfered with the investigation.  He obstructed justice, even though he is supposed to represent justice.

Wit is a dirty judge.  The CCJ code of ethics is a joke.

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

[Tylergal]

WHERE IS SAN

San went back to work.  Not sure where she is tonight, probably out partying, LOLOL 

She needs to report to us.  She knows better than to not let us know.  Why some Aruban might be out partying and we would never know what happened to her.

First of all San does not party     Secondly if I were partying with an Aruban I think they would be the ones who would have to watch out. 

[Nut44x4]

Asked why it took investigators more than two weeks after Holloway's disappearance to search the van der Sloot home, Janssen said Thursday, ``You have to build up an investigation. You can't just go in there like a cowboy, you have to give certain direction to investigators.''

Yeh right,They searched the two innocent security's guards house who they tried to frame,immediately when they were arrested. I am extremely anxious to get to the bottom of why that house was never searched in 2005. Judge Wit changed the Warrant or Paul's buddies in the OM including the AG that he worked for never requested the full search. As of right now I am to believe Judge Wit is lying and he changed the search. They are cooked and this is positive proof they covered up Natalee's murder and protected the Van Der SLoots.

Yes.....but there is nothing we can do about it. If there was, we all would have done it ages ago. WTF can we do?????

[Tylergal]

******* ... has an English translation of the Bon Dia Aruba  article where Bob Witt denies reducing the scope of the search been posted on the forum yet?

It appears that Beth and Peter Devries are on the same page as far as the contents of the search warrant which originated from the prosecutor's office.  Both of them are of the opinion that the contents dictated a full search.

However ... in October, 2005 ... Dompig claims that a full search warrant was denied by a judge following Joran's detainment and ... was denied again following Paulus' detainment.

Unless a copy of the search warrant surfaces ... I do believe that Bob Wit is going to win this one.

Janet

You may be right, Janet.  But can Wit explain what he was doing at the Sloot house in the first place?  According to the code of ethics of the Caribbean Court of Justice, he should not be at the Sloot house under any circumstance, especially in the midst of missing person investigation.

He interfered with the investigation.  He obstructed justice, even though he is supposed to represent justice.

Wit is a dirty judge.  The CCJ code of ethics is a joke.

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

I am going way out on a limb here ,but I believe that judges when they come from one rat's nest island to the next, are giving an allotment to spend for food, clothing, shelter, travel and bedding.  My guess would be that some of that money was given to Anita & Paulus for housing their judge guests and providing entertainment, so this judge was just at his home-away-from home.  If Anita had not run off to the Netherlands, she would have been there to get that all-night party together for her guests and it would not have been left up to the Sporter to provide the night's entertainment which all went sour and led us to this point in time.  Flame away, but I think that is what was going on and what has been going on for a long time.