Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28 - 12/30/07

[Helen Back]

Update: Fri Dec-28 2030 hrs

The USBL calibrations are completed. The ROV test dive will proceed in the morning. If successful, the first dive on targets will follow.


http://www.nholloway.blogspot.com/

Thanks Pita!

Can't wait to see video of the ROV.  Best thoughts and wishes to the Persistence crew!

[mrs. red]

O/T = San I am glad to see you ... the Musing thread has been asking for you...


any thing new monkeys? 

[Observer]

Translation - posted by Lazlo at RU
Bob Wit defends himself in Bon Dia.

(For sure translation faults, but on or about what it says is the following)

Ex Head Commissar Bob Wit defends his actions in the Holloway case.

-Willemstad- "I have acted correct procedure wise in the case of Natalee Holloway, The ex Head Commissaris in the affair, Bob Wit tells about the procedures that took place fast in the first days of the investigation. During one week, Mr Wit who's avenue is affiliated with the Court of Justice of the Caribbean, has functioned as a Head Commissar in the case here.

On Aruba the Chief of investigation in the time when Gerald Dompig was the Head Commissar, did not approve of the search of the house of the parents of Van Der Sloot as part of the investigation and had obstructed the investigation (?). The investigation of the Dutch crime investigator Peter R. de Vries, has came to the same conclusion. It was remarkable in the case that after the Dutch group of investigators had joined the case they were allowed to search the territory of the family. The impression was given also because it was the deal of a functionnaire who was learning to become Head, felt he had to protect the privacy of the family. Paul van der Sloot, father of Joran van der Sloot after having become a suspect in the case. ....... (no idea)

Mr Wit, had to decide in an instant about the search of where Joran's father lived, and made the decision to allow the search of the apartment of Joran van der Sloot and also in the two cars of the family.

At no moment they had (asked?) to search more then that. A Head Commisar cannot do otherwise, because the petition has to be substantial. Another word is by having allowed to search at other places that were not covered by the petition of the OM all evidence eventually obtained would be illegal. This is very significant since dealing with the case ourselves we had to work in a correct manner, Mr Wit says.

The ex Head Commissar also says by having dealt with the case himself the suspicions against Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers is strong.

I had concluded from the dossier there had been various contradictions in their declarations. But that is not enough to succeed in a conviction. In a case where no the remains are found in order to treat it as a crime you have to have additional material such as a witness who has seen it happen or traces of blood that for example can be tested for DNA, so the Magistrate tells.

For one thing is, the case itself, Mr Wit says that even after time has passed one can still prosecute the suspects. I have seen often in my work the instant good new information comes up that can throw a new light on a case that was unsolved, so Mr Witt is commenting. The Ministry Public in Aruba has announced this the week that the case here ....of a "crime" is 7 years for murder and 10 years for premeditated murder.

[San]

O/T = San I am glad to see you ... the Musing thread has been asking for you...


any thing new monkeys? 

Thanks mrs. red I just went over to Musings.

[WhiskeyGirl]

8. June 9, 2005 Julia Renfro

Aruba newspaper editor Julia Renfro joined The Factor with the latest information on the case and the five men in custody. "The police told us that they have solid evidence against two of the men. The other three were considered as witnesses against those two men." http://www.billoreilly.com/show?action=viewTVShow&showID=311

I bet Eduardo Mathew was not surprised the convincing evidence and the immediate execution of a search warrant was against 2 men who were black. However, are Depak and Satish considered black? What are the groups in Aruba and which ones are subjected to racism. For example, I thought Julia was married to a black man. I realize there is racism here, so this isn't really a knock against per see, but I don't know the lines in Aruba. But I can see it exists.

I used to ask how people were racially slotted/viewed in Aruba, long ago at RWV.  People used to say things like "...the Kalpoes are black."

I saved the following...old link -

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/09/natalee_hollowa_11.html

fab
so they do not treat dutch from curacao different
when they go to holland ?
your rigth im not alloctoon living in holland

But you see I think there is raceism everywere even in aruba to deny it would be living in glass closet.

so if you guys think everything is dandy in holland Ill have to take your word for it.

Posted by: maria | Sep 6, 2005 11:03:25 AM

I guess the in burgeringwet is not raceism and dicrimination.

Posted by: maria | Sep 6, 2005 11:05:05 AM

Im just saying that before we start critizing other countries we should look at ourselves, writing the color of the skin on birthcirtificates is wrong as inburgeringswet.

Posted by: maria | Sep 6, 2005 11:12:20 AM

Do you have "color" written" on the birth certificates? ...is this in USA? What do they write for people of mixed races?

Posted by: Natalya | Sep 6, 2005 11:15:25 AM

Either your Asian, Latino, Caucasian or black.

I know one case where a baby was born. The Father was black and the father White. The baby das a bit of a color and they put BLACK on his certificate.
SImply for the fact that he had dark coloured skin. It did't even matter that the mother was 100% white female.

Posted by: Fab | Sep 6, 2005 11:19:27 AM

[Observer]

On Aruba the Chief of investigation in the time when Gerald Dompig was the Head Commissar, did not approve of the search of the house of the parents of Van Der Sloot as part of the investigation and had obstructed the investigation (?). The investigation of the Dutch crime investigator Peter R. de Vries, has came to the same conclusion. It was remarkable in the case that after the Dutch group of investigators had joined the case they were allowed to search the territory of the family. The impression was given also because it was the deal of a functionnaire who was learning to become Head, felt he had to protect the privacy of the family. Paul van der Sloot, father of Joran van der Sloot after having become a suspect in the case. ....... (no idea)
Alright,Dompig and the functionnaire should be under arrest and interrogated why they obstructed justice and helped murderer's..Lets get the ball rolling here!!

In a case where no the remains are found in order to treat it as a crime you have to have additional material such as a witness who has seen it happen or traces of blood that for example can be tested for DNA, so the Magistrate tells.
Well duh,why do you think there was no remains or physical evidence?They never searched the damn house!! They had blood and the same people turned it into chocolate.We have additional evidence and that is you telling us Dompig wouldnt allow the search. Strange how they shuffled DOmpig in and out as Police Chief

[Dayhiker]

Translation - posted by Lazlo at RU
Bob Wit defends himself in Bon Dia.

(For sure translation faults, but on or about what it says is the following)

Ex Head Commissar Bob Wit defends his actions in the Holloway case.

-Willemstad- "I have acted correct procedure wise in the case of Natalee Holloway, The ex Head Commissaris in the affair, Bob Wit tells about the procedures that took place fast in the first days of the investigation. During one week, Mr Wit who's avenue is affiliated with the Court of Justice of the Caribbean, has functioned as a Head Commissar in the case here.

On Aruba the Chief of investigation in the time when Gerald Dompig was the Head Commissar, did not approve of the search of the house of the parents of Van Der Sloot as part of the investigation and had obstructed the investigation (?). The investigation of the Dutch crime investigator Peter R. de Vries, has came to the same conclusion. It was remarkable in the case that after the Dutch group of investigators had joined the case they were allowed to search the territory of the family. The impression was given also because it was the deal of a functionnaire who was learning to become Head, felt he had to protect the privacy of the family. Paul van der Sloot, father of Joran van der Sloot after having become a suspect in the case. ....... (no idea)

Mr Wit, had to decide in an instant about the search of where Joran's father lived, and made the decision to allow the search of the apartment of Joran van der Sloot and also in the two cars of the family.

At no moment they had (asked?) to search more then that. A Head Commisar cannot do otherwise, because the petition has to be substantial. Another word is by having allowed to search at other places that were not covered by the petition of the OM all evidence eventually obtained would be illegal. This is very significant since dealing with the case ourselves we had to work in a correct manner, Mr Wit says.

The ex Head Commissar also says by having dealt with the case himself the suspicions against Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers is strong.

I had concluded from the dossier there had been various contradictions in their declarations. But that is not enough to succeed in a conviction. In a case where no the remains are found in order to treat it as a crime you have to have additional material such as a witness who has seen it happen or traces of blood that for example can be tested for DNA, so the Magistrate tells.

For one thing is, the case itself, Mr Wit says that even after time has passed one can still prosecute the suspects. I have seen often in my work the instant good new information comes up that can throw a new light on a case that was unsolved, so Mr Witt is commenting. The Ministry Public in Aruba has announced this the week that the case here ....of a "crime" is 7 years for murder and 10 years for premeditated murder.

He'd have been better off keeping his mouth shut. After reading that he looks even more like a dirty Dutch bullshitter worse than he already did.

Maybe he can explain how ten yards of concrete can seperate a crime scene being investigated or not?

Judge Bob Wit is a lying corrupt Dutch bastard.

[Tamikosmom]

I bet Eduardo Mathew was not surprised the convincing evidence and the immediate execution of a search warrant was against 2 men who were black. However, are Depak and Satish considered black? What are the groups in Aruba and which ones are subjected to racism. For example, I thought Julia was married to a black man. I realize there is racism here, so this isn't really a knock against per see, but I don't know the lines in Aruba. But I can see it exists.

I contend that the detention of the security guards was all about Deepak and Satish's reference to a black security guard in the Holiday Inn fabrication.

I believe that discrimination in regards to social and economic factors does exist in Aruba and ... that reason that the "powers that be" in the Natalee Holloway coverup felt that they would be able to pull off the framing of the Security Guards.

Regarding this topic ... for the first time in 2 1/2 years ... I agree with Julia Renfro.  I cannot believe I just said that.   

Janet

+++++++++++++

David Kock
Fox News
June 10 2005

Kock said his client, Satish Kalpoe, and his brother told police they saw a black security guard approach Holloway in the parking lot in front of the hotel lobby before they drove off.

"That's why [two former security guards] were detained," Kock told the AP.


Arubans Agree: Race Not an Issue
FOX NEWS
Tuesday, June 14, 2005

Some Arubans say that while race may not have played a role in the detentions, class could have. The Dutch man in police custody is the privileged son of a Justice Ministry official, and his two Surinamese friends are from a middle-class family.

The two blacks, meanwhile, live in a poor town of oil refinery workers. Cornett said his friend was taken in by police because he is "a regular guy."


Alvin Cornet
AMERICAN MORNING
June 10, 2005
 
ALVIN CORNET, COUSIN OF SUSPECT: And it's on something about money wise who is rich and who is poor.


Julia Renfro
CNN
June 15, 2005

Julia Renfro, editor of Aruba Today, an island newspaper, said her publication received more than 200 e-mails from Americans after police arrested John and Jones.

"These horrible e-mails, just horrible," Renfro said. "They were from both blacks and whites from there in the United States, only the United States, criticizing Aruba and how they planned to never set foot on Aruba ever again ... because of the cruelty against these two security guards, how it was so obvious to anyone around the world ... that this was discrimination."

Renfro, a white American who has lived in Aruba for 15 years and is the mother of biracial children, said racial profiling does not have the same foothold on the island nation that it does in the United States.

"Aruba's colorblind," she said of the nation heavily dependent on the tourism industry.

"Interracial ... is not a word we would use here," she continued. "It doesn't exist. Most of the marriages are mixed. All of the children are mixed. Nobody can say I'm black, I'm white."

She insisted the reasons behind the guards' arrest had nothing to do with race.

"Locally there was never even a mention or a breath of concern that this was a racial issue nor a status issue," Renfro said.

[Kat_Gram]

On Aruba the Chief of investigation in the time when Gerald Dompig was the Head Commissar, did not approve of the search of the house of the parents of Van Der Sloot as part of the investigation and had obstructed the investigation (?).

I must need a nap because I do not understand WTHeck this means.
Is he saying Dompig did not ask for ? That is the first I heard of this one.
Maybe someone else will come up with an explanation for me tomorrow.   

[Helen Back]

For one thing is, the case itself, Mr Wit says that even after time has passed one can still prosecute the suspects. I have seen often in my work the instant good new information comes up that can throw a new light on a case that was unsolved, so Mr Witt is commenting. The Ministry Public in Aruba has announced this the week that the case here ....of a "crime" is 7 years for murder and 10 years for premeditated murder.

These corrupt Dutch judges are pathetic.  Always throwing out the little tid bit of how this case can be prosecuted should any evidence ever turn up!

This corrupt waste of space is the one who interfered in the investigation on behalf of Paulus and he wants us to listen to him about future prosecution!  Insulting to all reasonable people everywhere!

Wit is a disgrace to his profession and to humanity.

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

Pathetic laughing stocks they all are if they don't kick this trash to the curb.  Put on your man pants!

[San]

Translation - posted by Lazlo at RU
Bob Wit defends himself in Bon Dia.

(For sure translation faults, but on or about what it says is the following)

Ex Head Commissar Bob Wit defends his actions in the Holloway case.

-Willemstad- "I have acted correct procedure wise in the case of Natalee Holloway, The ex Head Commissaris in the affair, Bob Wit tells about the procedures that took place fast in the first days of the investigation. During one week, Mr Wit who's avenue is affiliated with the Court of Justice of the Caribbean, has functioned as a Head Commissar in the case here.

On Aruba the Chief of investigation in the time when Gerald Dompig was the Head Commissar, did not approve of the search of the house of the parents of Van Der Sloot as part of the investigation and had obstructed the investigation (?). The investigation of the Dutch crime investigator Peter R. de Vries, has came to the same conclusion. It was remarkable in the case that after the Dutch group of investigators had joined the case they were allowed to search the territory of the family. The impression was given also because it was the deal of a functionnaire who was learning to become Head, felt he had to protect the privacy of the family. Paul van der Sloot, father of Joran van der Sloot after having become a suspect in the case. ....... (no idea)

Mr Wit, had to decide in an instant about the search of where Joran's father lived, and made the decision to allow the search of the apartment of Joran van der Sloot and also in the two cars of the family.

At no moment they had (asked?) to search more then that. A Head Commisar cannot do otherwise, because the petition has to be substantial. Another word is by having allowed to search at other places that were not covered by the petition of the OM all evidence eventually obtained would be illegal. This is very significant since dealing with the case ourselves we had to work in a correct manner, Mr Wit says.

The ex Head Commissar also says by having dealt with the case himself the suspicions against Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers is strong.

I had concluded from the dossier there had been various contradictions in their declarations. But that is not enough to succeed in a conviction. In a case where no the remains are found in order to treat it as a crime you have to have additional material such as a witness who has seen it happen or traces of blood that for example can be tested for DNA, so the Magistrate tells.

For one thing is, the case itself, Mr Wit says that even after time has passed one can still prosecute the suspects. I have seen often in my work the instant good new information comes up that can throw a new light on a case that was unsolved, so Mr Witt is commenting. The Ministry Public in Aruba has announced this the week that the case here ....of a "crime" is 7 years for murder and 10 years for premeditated murder.

He'd have been better off keeping his mouth shut. After reading that he looks even more like a dirty Dutch bullshitter worse than he already did.

Maybe he can explain how ten yards of concrete can seperate a crime scene being investigated or not?

Judge Bob Wit is a lying corrupt Dutch bastard.

After all this time why did this jackass come out of hiding.  Is it because they closed the case and he knows what he will say won't hurt the investigation.  This guy is a slimy POS.

[Magnolia]

All of the people who have come out trying to do the right thing in this case
suddenly turn.  It is like someone sticks a pin in a balloon.
Suddenly they have nothing and they blame the media and the family.
Even Bachus did a sudden about face.  I wonder who pays them off.

Indeed.....or who threatens them?

I would suspect the Aruban Govt has ton's of dirty money for payoffs. What would it cost to buy Bachus?150k in cash? How about Joe Tacopina?Lawfirm out of chicago?That is peanuts for a country that deals directly in the billion's of dollars cocaine and money laundering business. One deicent size cocaine bust would pay Natalee's dis-information/slander campaign and defense of JK2 for 2007. If you peel off the top of the Aruban Govt/Hotels/Casino's you will see the Colombian Cartel and Mafia hard at work. Suing Dr.Phil for 800 million dollars based on Deepak's defamation of character was a gamble and that will be their first loss.

And they let the lovely? Arleen deliver the payoffs.  I have always felt that
Bachus took a bribe.  He looked so guilty when he came out of that meeting.

[Tamikosmom]

Translation - posted by Lazlo at RU
Bob Wit defends himself in Bon Dia.

(For sure translation faults, but on or about what it says is the following)

Ex Head Commissar Bob Wit defends his actions in the Holloway case.

-Willemstad- "I have acted correct procedure wise in the case of Natalee Holloway, The ex Head Commissaris in the affair, Bob Wit tells about the procedures that took place fast in the first days of the investigation. During one week, Mr Wit who's avenue is affiliated with the Court of Justice of the Caribbean, has functioned as a Head Commissar in the case here.

On Aruba the Chief of investigation in the time when Gerald Dompig was the Head Commissar, did not approve of the search of the house of the parents of Van Der Sloot as part of the investigation and had obstructed the investigation (?). The investigation of the Dutch crime investigator Peter R. de Vries, has came to the same conclusion. It was remarkable in the case that after the Dutch group of investigators had joined the case they were allowed to search the territory of the family. The impression was given also because it was the deal of a functionnaire who was learning to become Head, felt he had to protect the privacy of the family. Paul van der Sloot, father of Joran van der Sloot after having become a suspect in the case. ....... (no idea)

Mr Wit, had to decide in an instant about the search of where Joran's father lived, and made the decision to allow the search of the apartment of Joran van der Sloot and also in the two cars of the family.

At no moment they had (asked?) to search more then that. A Head Commisar cannot do otherwise, because the petition has to be substantial. Another word is by having allowed to search at other places that were not covered by the petition of the OM all evidence eventually obtained would be illegal. This is very significant since dealing with the case ourselves we had to work in a correct manner, Mr Wit says.

The ex Head Commissar also says by having dealt with the case himself the suspicions against Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers is strong.

I had concluded from the dossier there had been various contradictions in their declarations. But that is not enough to succeed in a conviction. In a case where no the remains are found in order to treat it as a crime you have to have additional material such as a witness who has seen it happen or traces of blood that for example can be tested for DNA, so the Magistrate tells.

For one thing is, the case itself, Mr Wit says that even after time has passed one can still prosecute the suspects. I have seen often in my work the instant good new information comes up that can throw a new light on a case that was unsolved, so Mr Witt is commenting. The Ministry Public in Aruba has announced this the week that the case here ....of a "crime" is 7 years for murder and 10 years for premeditated murder.

Thank you *******.

I wonder how many of these players who played a role in covering up the truth and ... preventing justice from prevailing in the Natalee Holloway case ... would give their blessings to their precious  daughter/ neice/ grandaughter if they wished to pursue a relationship with Joran.

As long as Joran van der Sloot is freely walking the streets of Aruban and Holland ... other Natalees are at risk.

Janet

[Observer]

On Aruba the Chief of investigation in the time when Gerald Dompig was the Head Commissar, did not approve of the search of the house of the parents of Van Der Sloot as part of the investigation and had obstructed the investigation (?). The investigation of the Dutch crime investigator Peter R. de Vries, has came to the same conclusion. It was remarkable in the case that after the Dutch group of investigators had joined the case they were allowed to search the territory of the family. The impression was given also because it was the deal of a functionnaire who was learning to become Head, felt he had to protect the privacy of the family. Paul van der Sloot, father of Joran van der Sloot after having become a suspect in the case. ....... (no idea)
Alright,Dompig and the functionnaire should be under arrest and interrogated why they obstructed justice and helped murderer's..Lets get the ball rolling here!!

In a case where no the remains are found in order to treat it as a crime you have to have additional material such as a witness who has seen it happen or traces of blood that for example can be tested for DNA, so the Magistrate tells.
Well duh,why do you think there was no remains or physical evidence?They never searched the damn house!! They had blood and the same people turned it into chocolate.We have additional evidence and that is you telling us Dompig wouldnt allow the search. Strange how they shuffled DOmpig in and out as Police Chief

Mr Wit, had to decide in an instant about the search of where Joran's father lived, and made the decision to allow the search of the apartment of Joran van der Sloot and also in the two cars of the family.

At no moment they had (asked?) to search more then that. A Head Commisar cannot do otherwise, because the petition has to be substantial.Another word is by having allowed to search at other places that were not covered by the petition of the OM all evidence eventually obtained would be illegal. This is very significant since dealing with the case ourselves we had to work in a correct manner, Mr Wit says.

[wreck]

What fries me is that Mos (and now Witt) all claim that there are very strong indications that J2K are involved and none of their lies match or fit the evidence. They claim however that there is not enough evidence to "convict."
So -- if all indications still point to the suspects -- WHY IN THE HELL DO YOU CLOSE THE CASE. If they "KNOW" who did it and yet can't prove it -- they should have renewed vigor to dig for more evidence to GET the conviction!!!! It doesn't make any sense to close the case!

[Magnolia]

On Aruba the Chief of investigation in the time when Gerald Dompig was the Head Commissar, did not approve of the search of the house of the parents of Van Der Sloot as part of the investigation and had obstructed the investigation (?). The investigation of the Dutch crime investigator Peter R. de Vries, has came to the same conclusion. It was remarkable in the case that after the Dutch group of investigators had joined the case they were allowed to search the territory of the family. The impression was given also because it was the deal of a functionnaire who was learning to become Head, felt he had to protect the privacy of the family. Paul van der Sloot, father of Joran van der Sloot after having become a suspect in the case. ....... (no idea)
Alright,Dompig and the functionnaire should be under arrest and interrogated why they obstructed justice and helped murderer's..Lets get the ball rolling here!!

In a case where no the remains are found in order to treat it as a crime you have to have additional material such as a witness who has seen it happen or traces of blood that for example can be tested for DNA, so the Magistrate tells.
Well duh,why do you think there was no remains or physical evidence?They never searched the damn house!! They had blood and the same people turned it into chocolate.We have additional evidence and that is you telling us Dompig wouldnt allow the search. Strange how they shuffled DOmpig in and out as Police Chief

Mr Wit, had to decide in an instant about the search of where Joran's father lived, and made the decision to allow the search of the apartment of Joran van der Sloot and also in the two cars of the family.

At no moment they had (asked?) to search more then that. A Head Commisar cannot do otherwise, because the petition has to be substantial.Another word is by having allowed to search at other places that were not covered by the petition of the OM all evidence eventually obtained would be illegal. This is very significant since dealing with the case ourselves we had to work in a correct manner, Mr Wit says.

Work in a correct manner to make sure there is no evidence.

[igsigs]

Wit is responding to accusations against himself. From DeVries, etc...

He changed the warrant on the spot, quick decision - and his defense is that he was not experienced. Throws in some other mumbo-jumbo, but i think that is about it. IMO

[robots]

ARUBA IS AN EVIL ISLAND - STAY AWAY

MOS IS A LIAR - and i HATE HIS GUTS

[robots]

MOS IS like a ROTTEN APPLE

from a distance it can Look GOOD.... then when you get a little closer you first notice the rotten smell, then you see it is mushy and yucky and then when you pick it up you want to THROW IT AWAY


MOS IS A LOSER

[robots]

MOS IS like a ROTTEN APPLE

from a distance it can Look GOOD.... then when you get a little closer you first notice the rotten smell, then you see it is mushy and yucky and then when you pick it up you want to THROW IT AWAY


MOS IS A LOSER


ALL ABOARD THE BS TRAIN - with MOS as the ENGINEER