Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28 - 12/30/07

[Puzzler]

This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

PI ~ Video and document everything and get statements from everyone on the ship.  Seal up any evidence, including body into a container, contact FBI.  Never would I ever give Aruban authorities anything. Not even the time of day...

Muffy, I like the way you think about this...video and document and statements from everyone...yep!

[downloadingdaddy]

This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

That is a good question.
I think that I would either turn it over to the fbi or I would pay to have a private analysis done providing I could afford such a thing. I definitely would not let Aruba or the Netherlands get a hold of it because they have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt (imo) That they can not be trusted.

[Dayhiker]

This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

I would turn it over to the FBI and let the FBI deal with ALE.  I wouldn't risk it disappearing with ALE.

I would do the same, Klaas.  I was thinking the other day, that if Natalee is in the ocean, the Persistence crew will find her.  If she's found, I hope the FBI takes her to Quantico. 

Then the family may get some measure of the truth. 

I agree with you all. The Arubans and Dutch are not to be trusted. Both governments have proven to by worthless at investigating a case. Any autopsy should be done under FBI supervision.

[Helen Back]

Hey Janet,

I couldn't find the Jossy interview about Joran's history of drugging girls either.  ******* posted it for us again on p. 43. 

[Dayhiker]

I guess we don't have proof of anything regarding the suspects, except that they kidnapped Natalee, and lied in every instance regarding her disappearance.

Who is responsible for the LACK of proof/evidence?  The perpetrators of the cover up:

CORRUPT DUTCH  AND ARUBAN JUSTICE OFFICIALS AND CORRUPT DUTCH JUDGES.
THEY OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE


Dirty Pimpmeister of Injustice Rudy Croes
Dirty Judge Rick Smid
Dirty Judge Bob Wit
Dirty Ben (Voc)King
Dirty attorney and suspect Paulus Van Der Sloot
Dirty Prosecutor Karin Janssen

 
UNTIL THEY ARE INVESTIGATED, NO TRUTH WILL COME OUT


My opinion only

Therein lies the problem. The Dutch will not investigate themselves. In their eyes they can do no wrong.

I said it before, there were two ways to crack this case and they ignored one of them completely. The cover-up. The root of the problem goes all the way to the highest levels of government in Holland.

[Buckeye]

This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

Film and seal container with rep from prosecutor on board.  Film opening container in Alabama with FBI.  Establish jurisdiction and then file Human Rights violation.

[Dayhiker]

PI ~ Video and document everything and get statements from everyone on the ship.  Seal up any evidence, including body into a container, contact FBI.  Never would I ever give Aruban authorities anything. Not even the time of day...

Muffy, I like the way you think about this...video and document and statements from everyone...yep!

Bravo Muffy! The Arubans and Dutch have done nothing but botch the case- intentionally at that. Hans Mos was a carney man with a soapbox, nothing more. I would tell them to just stay out of the way and let us do their job for them just like we did in World War II.

[Tylergal]

This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

That's a hard call.  I think I would want her remains buried in a Christian funeral.  Perhaps some forensic pathologist, such as Dr. Baden, who could be trusted to do the DNA to prove it is Natalee.....

[Tamikosmom]

Here ya go Helen..

Aug. 1, 2005 Jossy on OReilly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWePBCccJiE

Known to have problems with anger and anger management..Flies off the bat most often..At school he had problems,Problems where he goes to drink..He goes to conquer these tourist girls..etc..Jossy confirms rumors about Joran dropping drugs into girls drinks or having someone else do it..Kids from Joran's school at the ISA have informed him that Joran has bragged about it..

Paul VDS was very permissive with him..Let him get away with everything..Father was been seen with him gambling in the Casino and letting him drink.
---------------------------------------
Two Observations Thursday, June 23, 2005

Snip from RWV Archive
The second observation will sound like gossip, which basically, it is - please take that into account. If it didn't come through an extremely reliable source on the island, I would not mention it at all.

In talking with an adult professional from Aruba who knew Joran, the individual stated that Joran often bragged to him of his many "sexual conquests" resulting from the use of an illicit substance slipped into a woman's drink and the Aruban individual suggested Joran was a "psychopath."

I doubt that the source of these statements is a certified psychologist, but if he is repeating these types of statements to individuals in and around the investigation, it will likely come out and be proven or disproven in any potential trial. And noone should be considered guilty of anything without one.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/two_observation.html

Thank you *******.

Jossy Mansur ... is the one and only Aruban who tells it how it is and ... has not wavered ... has not been intimidated or compensated into a deafening silence.  He stands up for what is right ... he is a man of integrity.  I am so thankful that this man has been there to uphold the family in their contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation is protecting Joran and Paulus and ... in doing so ... is denying Natalee Holloway the justice that Dutch law affords.

Janet 

[snoopy]

This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

Hi Everyone!!  Missed ya'll these last couple of days while we were gone.

PI at this point, and after everything that Beth and family have had to endure from the corrupt negligent officials, I would turn Natalee over to the FBI.  I would let the fbi turn over any autopsy reports, etc. to the KLPD.  But not her remains.  Never.     

[Helen Back]

I guess we don't have proof of anything regarding the suspects, except that they kidnapped Natalee, and lied in every instance regarding her disappearance.

Who is responsible for the LACK of proof/evidence?  The perpetrators of the cover up:

CORRUPT DUTCH  AND ARUBAN JUSTICE OFFICIALS AND CORRUPT DUTCH JUDGES.
THEY OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE


Dirty Pimpmeister of Injustice Rudy Croes
Dirty Judge Rick Smid
Dirty Judge Bob Wit
Dirty Ben (Voc)King
Dirty attorney and suspect Paulus Van Der Sloot
Dirty Prosecutor Karin Janssen

 
UNTIL THEY ARE INVESTIGATED, NO TRUTH WILL COME OUT


My opinion only

Therein lies the problem. The Dutch will not investigate themselves. In their eyes they can do no wrong.

I said it before, there were two ways to crack this case and they ignored one of them completely. The cover-up. The root of the problem goes all the way to the highest levels of government in Holland.

Well, I guess that will just have to be the choice of the Netherlands government.  From what I have read, not many Dutch citizens care about or think much of Aruba, what with their sovereignty and independence.  However, you would think it would be of some concern that the Dutch judges appointed for life, are running "a-muck" in the Antilles, obstructing justice to suit themselves and their buddies.  Reflects poorly on the Dutch justice system to have no accountability for judges.

All good reasons, IMO, to never travel to the Netherlands Antilles or any part of the Dutch kingdom.  They just don't seem to care much about crime, and the lack of transparency in their process is ripe for corruption.

Maybe one day the taxpaying citizens in the Netherlands will get tired of bailing out Aruba financially, and some change may happen.  Money always does the talking.  IMO

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

[Tamikosmom]

Dave Holloway
Question and Answer Chat - BFN
January 23, 2006

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=2256.0

I presented to Dave Holloway a list of question given to me by some of Blogs for Natalee's Chat Room participants.

2. What do they know about Lorenzo Van Rijn? Why is his name Voodoo to the Arubans?

Lorenzo is believed to be the Ecstasy dealer in Aruba. Detective Jacobs Has ruled him out as a suspect.


13. Do you know why Lorenzo van Rijn was picked up for questioning early on?

Any name that is mentioned in the interrogation was called in for questioning.


14. Why was the school bus driver called the next morning and told to pick up Joran at Lorenzo's house?

Joran was allegedly dropped off at a bus stop on the main highway. The bus driver had not made it there yet and saved Paulus about 30 minutes. Lorenzo's house was nearby.

Credit: Debbie - BFN

[Tamikosmom]

Dave Holloway
Corruption in Paradise

Page 183: I asked Jacobs to print me out another copy of my statement, and Art Wood came walking in.  He noticed a computer printout on the wall about Natalee’s case.  It was a flowchart with all of the suspects and interested parties on it.  He noticed that one person who we thought was a suspect, Lorenzo van Rijn, rumoured to be Joran’s half brother, was not on it.  We had been told that he might have had some connection to Natalee’s disappearance.  He is supposedly known on the island by the nickname Xtacy.   Art was trying to figure out how the flowchart worked, and he noticed that some of the names were significantly larger than others.  He asked Jacobs what that symbolized, and Jacobs responded that it was just the way the computer printed it out.  Art asked him where Lorenzo was, and Jacobs said that Lorenzo had nothing to do with Natalee’s case, so he doesn’t have to be on the flow chart.   We left, and Art commented on Jacobs’ reaction.  There is talk in Aruba that Lorenzo is a known drug dealer who lives in a compound on the island with a remote-controlled sliding gate, television monitors, and razor wire all around the top of the fence.  Apparently, you cannot get into that place.  It looks like a prison camp.  Since Lorenzo is suppose to be related to Joran, if the boys got drugs to give Natalee, they may have gotten them from him.

[KarmaRoundUp]

http://www.exposetheleft.com/images/slootlarge.JPG

DANA'S WOONIDEE
Fergusonstraat 21 - A
ORANJESTAD
Tel: (297) 5830912
Fax: (297) 5830793
Business Category: Furniture Outlets

This is one confusing compound....where exactly is the front of the house?The front that Beth and greta were standing at the gate and outting paulus from his hidey hole in the bushes?

LOL! Heres a map of the house that should be fairly accurate..I guess you have to enter that gate to get to the front door,and I guess thats the main house at the end of the property. 

So joran's pimp pad is at the front of the whole compound?And the younger son's also have a seperate sleeping house?HITH could the so called parents possible keep an eye on their children?Thanks for the map *******

[2NJSons_Mom]

Wreck,

The music credits are at the end of the video at nholloway.blogspot.com and it says - The Verve, Bittersweet Symphony. 

I, too, always liked it, but couldn't remember what it was and went back to check it out for you.  Hope you see this.

[San]

This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

There isn't one honest Aruban cop.  As long as Rudy Croes is calling the shots he makes them all corrupt.

I wouldn't think twice about what I would do if I found a body in the crab trap.  I would turn it over to the FBI.  I would not tell the ALE I found anything.  I wouldn't put it past the ALE to take the body out of the trap and put another one in there and say see we cooperated fully with the search.

[klaasend]

Dave Holloway
Question and Answer Chat - BFN
January 23, 2006

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=2256.0

I presented to Dave Holloway a list of question given to me by some of Blogs for Natalee's Chat Room participants.

2. What do they know about Lorenzo Van Rijn? Why is his name Voodoo to the Arubans?

Lorenzo is believed to be the Ecstasy dealer in Aruba. Detective Jacobs Has ruled him out as a suspect.


13. Do you know why Lorenzo van Rijn was picked up for questioning early on?

Any name that is mentioned in the interrogation was called in for questioning.


14. Why was the school bus driver called the next morning and told to pick up Joran at Lorenzo's house?

Joran was allegedly dropped off at a bus stop on the main highway. The bus driver had not made it there yet and saved Paulus about 30 minutes. Lorenzo's house was nearby.

Credit: Debbie - BFN

Oh well if Dennis Jacobs has ruled him out then no point in discussing him 

[Lala'sMom]

Dave Holloway
Corruption in Paradise

Page 183: I asked Jacobs to print me out another copy of my statement, and Art Wood came walking in.  He noticed a computer printout on the wall about Natalee’s case.  It was a flowchart with all of the suspects and interested parties on it.  He noticed that one person who we thought was a suspect, Lorenzo van Rijn, rumoured to be Joran’s half brother, was not on it.  We had been told that he might have had some connection to Natalee’s disappearance.  He is supposedly known on the island by the nickname Xtacy.   Art was trying to figure out how the flowchart worked, and he noticed that some of the names were significantly larger than others.  He asked Jacobs what that symbolized, and Jacobs responded that it was just the way the computer printed it out.  Art asked him where Lorenzo was, and Jacobs said that Lorenzo had nothing to do with Natalee’s case, so he doesn’t have to be on the flow chart.   We left, and Art commented on Jacobs’ reaction.  There is talk in Aruba that Lorenzo is a known drug dealer who lives in a compound on the island with a remote-controlled sliding gate, television monitors, and razor wire all around the top of the fence.  Apparently, you cannot get into that place.  It looks like a prison camp.  Since Lorenzo is suppose to be related to Joran, if the boys got drugs to give Natalee, they may have gotten them from him.

So if we are to believe Dennis Jacobs is telling the truth about Lorenzo we are to believe everything else he has said?  Jug said that Jacobs was dirty. I don't think just because he said he isn't involved makes it so...but then again what do I know. MOO


BTW Anna, I thought you were angry at me again.  Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. I do appreciate your photo contribution in the other thread. You have done much more than I to help with this case.

[Anna]

Dave Holloway
Corruption in Paradise

Page 183: I asked Jacobs to print me out another copy of my statement, and Art Wood came walking in.  He noticed a computer printout on the wall about Natalee’s case.  It was a flowchart with all of the suspects and interested parties on it.  He noticed that one person who we thought was a suspect, Lorenzo van Rijn, rumoured to be Joran’s half brother, was not on it.  We had been told that he might have had some connection to Natalee’s disappearance.  He is supposedly known on the island by the nickname Xtacy.   Art was trying to figure out how the flowchart worked, and he noticed that some of the names were significantly larger than others.  He asked Jacobs what that symbolized, and Jacobs responded that it was just the way the computer printed it out.  Art asked him where Lorenzo was, and Jacobs said that Lorenzo had nothing to do with Natalee’s case, so he doesn’t have to be on the flow chart.   We left, and Art commented on Jacobs’ reaction.  There is talk in Aruba that Lorenzo is a known drug dealer who lives in a compound on the island with a remote-controlled sliding gate, television monitors, and razor wire all around the top of the fence.  Apparently, you cannot get into that place.  It looks like a prison camp.  Since Lorenzo is suppose to be related to Joran, if the boys got drugs to give Natalee, they may have gotten them from him.

Janet,

I believe you have dial up or can usually get your player to play Dana's programs but if you can in the podcast, you can go to this link

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/

Scroll down to July 23, 2007, and in that Podcast at Minute 27:02 you can hear Dana ask Jossy MY QUESTION about Lorenzo being connected to Natalee's disappearance and also if it has ever been confirmed as more than rumor he is related to Joran for yourself.

Kat Gram is correct in what she remembers.  She has her "facts" exactly right.



.

[JA]

I also wouldn't even consider turning physical evidence over to the ALE at this point.  I am sure they will double document everything and anything.  It is unfortunate, if they turned physical evidence over to the ALE, it would disappear, they'd claim foul play, and/or they would magically turn it into something other than what it was. ( After all they are the only ones I know who can turn blood into chocolate.) This would again result in no trial or the case being reopened.  If they don't turn it over, the ALE with claim the evidence had been tampered with, foul play, or because their "experts" didn't collect it it can't be used; again resulting in no trial.

At least with the evidence is possesions of the FBI or US, Natalee's family can have some type of closure, their own testing can be done, and the evidence they find can be made public as they see fit.



As far as the chocolate, I remember in the summer of '05 the poster Terry, in the chat room, ( The one who was questioned by the FBI?) discussed how she couldn't imagine Deepak allowing anyone it eat in his car because he was meticulous about keeping it clean.