Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28 - 12/30/07

[Tamikosmom]

 So joran's pimp pad is at the front of the whole compound?And the younger son's also have a seperate sleeping house?HITH could the so called parents possible keep an eye on their children?Thanks for the map *******

Karma ... our eldest son would have thought he had died and gone to heaven if he could have had his own separate quarters when he was a teenager.  However ... his parents were sooo mean.

His father and I did afford him his own room in the basement when he was sixteen years old.  It was a short term arrangement.  One month later ... it was revealed that he was sneaking out at night and meeting up with a girlfriend.  Tamikosmom had her sources way back then.     Anyways ... it was the last night that this guy slept in the basement room that he had worked so hard setting up ... laying new carpet .. painting .. etc.  His new night time  residence for the next two years was located right across the hall from his parents' room.

Janet

[JA]

With the attitude and leagl system in Aruba I doubt they'd even care if Lorenzo supplied drugs to Joran.  To them it is no big deal.  They know these pimps have been drugging tourist girls and never did anything about it before.  I mean if they feel they don't have any/enough evidence to prosecute J2K and Paulus, why would they bother with Lorenzo.  He is probably a member of their "Police Benevolent Society," and sends in his contribution each year for their support in looking the other way.

[Dayhiker]

Therein lies the problem. The Dutch will not investigate themselves. In their eyes they can do no wrong.

I said it before, there were two ways to crack this case and they ignored one of them completely. The cover-up. The root of the problem goes all the way to the highest levels of government in Holland.

Well, I guess that will just have to be the choice of the Netherlands government.  From what I have read, not many Dutch citizens care about or think much of Aruba, what with their sovereignty and independence.  However, you would think it would be of some concern that the Dutch judges appointed for life, are running "a-muck" in the Antilles, obstructing justice to suit themselves and their buddies.  Reflects poorly on the Dutch justice system to have no accountability for judges.

All good reasons, IMO, to never travel to the Netherlands Antilles or any part of the Dutch kingdom.  They just don't seem to care much about crime, and the lack of transparency in their process is ripe for corruption.

Maybe one day the taxpaying citizens in the Netherlands will get tired of bailing out Aruba financially, and some change may happen.  Money always does the talking.  IMO

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

I am sure you recall how the Aruba/Dutch government gumflappers (Arlene comes to mind) and internet trolls defended all the strange occurances, the ones that make no sense, that occured during the case. Such a good system this Dutch one is that there is no possibility of corruption, right?

It all rings hollow now, doesn't it Helen? In fact, it all looks pre-planned for a pre-determined conclusion.

[Tamikosmom]

Dave Holloway
Corruption in Paradise

Page 183: I asked Jacobs to print me out another copy of my statement, and Art Wood came walking in.  He noticed a computer printout on the wall about Natalee’s case.  It was a flowchart with all of the suspects and interested parties on it.  He noticed that one person who we thought was a suspect, Lorenzo van Rijn, rumoured to be Joran’s half brother, was not on it.  We had been told that he might have had some connection to Natalee’s disappearance.  He is supposedly known on the island by the nickname Xtacy.   Art was trying to figure out how the flowchart worked, and he noticed that some of the names were significantly larger than others.  He asked Jacobs what that symbolized, and Jacobs responded that it was just the way the computer printed it out.  Art asked him where Lorenzo was, and Jacobs said that Lorenzo had nothing to do with Natalee’s case, so he doesn’t have to be on the flow chart.   We left, and Art commented on Jacobs’ reaction.  There is talk in Aruba that Lorenzo is a known drug dealer who lives in a compound on the island with a remote-controlled sliding gate, television monitors, and razor wire all around the top of the fence.  Apparently, you cannot get into that place.  It looks like a prison camp.  Since Lorenzo is suppose to be related to Joran, if the boys got drugs to give Natalee, they may have gotten them from him.

Janet,

I believe you have dial up or can usually get your player to play Dana's programs but if you can in the podcast, you can go to this link

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/

Scroll down to July 23, 2007, and in that Podcast at Minute 27:02 you can hear Dana ask Jossy MY QUESTION about Lorenzo being connected to Natalee's disappearance and also if it has ever been confirmed as more than rumor he is related to Joran for yourself.

Kat Gram is correct in what she remembers.  She has her "facts" exactly right.

Thanks Anna

I am not disputing anything put forward on the forum in regards to Lorenzo.  I am just putting out there whatever info I have accumulated regarding this guy to assist us in our speculations.

Janet

[klaasend]

[NYC_lover]

Good afternoon and evening all.

It become time for me to left, the reason are personal circumstances.
I just want to tell, are there still good questions about the Dutch law?
Or when there is still something else what u want to ask me?
Please ask them when there are in this topic.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2486.new#new

To water roles concerning my cheeks of anger.
And the anger has predominated me and as a result of which I can almost not normal words used.
I want come tomorrow with an explain and when I really want left.
Take care,
NYC

[GabbyG]

Gabby,

There is a article at RWV I believe that talked about the lunch date or whatever with Lorenzo. Also there was a seperate discussion on it at boostunit.com(Arubans)before they took it down. It was him that some people speculated that Natalee ate/met with. I'M not sure why or how that rumor got around so early in the case. I just wish we had one more solid piece of evidence to link this all together.

*******, thanks! I wanted to say that I had read it at RWV, but I wasnt sure as it was so long ago. When I mentioned it at another site I used to read at I was laughed at.

I hope you don't mind, but I copied your earlier posts about Lorenzo into the Shango thread.  BTW just so you will know, I also read that same post..can't remember too much about it though...I really didn't like to go to RWV too much.  Once I found SM, I just settled in and stayed a while.  If you can possibly find or tell me more about that story I would appreciate it. I have looked often for that post and since I am so computer stupid, I had little luck.  I would like to put the Lorenzo rumor to rest if possible and if not, I want proof of his involvement.  Seems everyone was indeed thinking about him early on in Aruba, but that doesn't make him a legit suspect. If someone would just help me to resolve this, we could move on to someone else...such as Freddy or Paulus.  TIA

Hey Lala's hi!  No, I dont mind at all, actually I have followed the Shango/Simian stuff along. It's fine that you copied my post over there 
It's really nice to read others that remember that post too. I first started posting at WS, stayed there until a couple of months ago. That's where I saw a link for RWV and how I started reading there, but like you I didnt read at RWV a lot, just now and then until it all got crazy and I quit going there entirely.
Im afraid I dont have any more to tell other then what I said in my earlier post about Lorenzo. His name got my attention early in the case, and I believe he is somehow connected to the case and has been part of the cover up, for whatever reason. I personally think it's because ALE bowed down to the drug cartel, and I believe Lorenzo to be connected to that in some way, however small. Also, he could easily be connected to Freddie because of the porn videos, which could be somehow connected to the drug cartel/porn industry, etc.
Early in the case the islanders said Lorenzo was known for having rave parties...they should know, so I believe that it's the truth. He has the perfect set up for rave parties, with the basement in his secluded and guarded home, the one with the rolled wire fence. All that stuff isn't there for nothing...there's a reason and personally I think it's because he is connected to the drug cartel. JMHO tho. 
~We have heard that he met Natalee just after she arrived on the island.
~We have heard that he has rave parties.
~We have heard that he has a boat.
~We have heard that he has drug connections although we dont know how far that goes.
~We have heard that he is "wild and crazy and capable of almost anything".
        **We could stop right here and still have reason to suspect him to be involved.

Add to that:
~IF it's true that he has drug connections he would have connections for a disappearance of a body.
~IF true he would easily have friends needed for an alibi.
~I agree with ******* in that jvds isnt scared of much...but I DO believe he would be afraid of Lorenzo if he had reason to be, IF it's true about Lorenzo's connections.

Add to that:
~ the rumors about the elders on the island.
~the rumors about the ceremony for the elders which included sacrifice, virgin, and masks. (we have heard about someone saying that they had seen a video of Natalee, and someone who looked like Paulus with a mask, am I correct on that?)
~Add to that the known use of major drugs there on the island.
~Add to that what we have seen from these people, what we have learned about them...they appear to have no conscience, and appear to be capable of anything.
               It's easy to come up with a lot of "what if" scenarios.

Let me say here that I dont suspect Lorenzo IN PLACE of j2k..no no...my personal thought is that j2k, Paulus and Lorenzo plus more higher ups could quite possibly be responsible.
But this is all just my active imagination at work, JMHO as always.

[Dayhiker]

With the attitude and leagl system in Aruba I doubt they'd even care if Lorenzo supplied drugs to Joran.  To them it is no big deal.  They know these pimps have been drugging tourist girls and never did anything about it before.  I mean if they feel they don't have any/enough evidence to prosecute J2K and Paulus, why would they bother with Lorenzo.  He is probably a member of their "Police Benevolent Society," and sends in his contribution each year for their support in looking the other way.

IIRC JA, it was reported the Prosecutor made a "procedural error" in Lorenzo's drug case and he got a free ticket out of prison.

Truth is, he had connections just like the van der Sloots. They aren't going to prosecute a Dutchman.

[Tylergal]

So who is really responsible for Natalee's death?  Is it the bartender that gave her the "special drink," is it "Lorenzo" who may have sold the drugs, is it "Paulus," who was at the casino, is it "Anita" who has always enabled and mediated, or is it "Joran, Deepak and Satish?"

[A's Fever]

So who is really responsible for Natalee's death?  Is it the bartender that gave her the "special drink," is it "Lorenzo" who may have sold the drugs, is it "Paulus," who was at the casino, is it "Anita" who has always enabled and mediated, or is it "Joran, Deepak and Satish?"

All of the above.  And a culture that glorifies killing tourist girls as a national sport.

[Nut44x4]

Good afternoon and evening all.

It become time for me to left, the reason are personal circumstances.
I just want to tell, are there still good questions about the Dutch law?
Or when there is still something else what u want to ask me?
Please ask them when there are in this topic.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2486.new#new

To water roles concerning my cheeks of anger.
And the anger has predominated me and as a result of which I can almost not normal words used.
I want come tomorrow with an explain and when I really want left.
Take care,
NYC

mmmmmmmmmmmm.....she is crying, but I do not know why 
Personal problems?? Will come back tomorrow?
NYC usually isn't here this late, wonder what is wrong

[dennisintn]

So who is really responsible for Natalee's death?  Is it the bartender that gave her the "special drink," is it "Lorenzo" who may have sold the drugs, is it "Paulus," who was at the casino, is it "Anita" who has always enabled and mediated, or is it "Joran, Deepak and Satish?"

easiest question this year.  j2k are the precipitators of this crime, they just have a lot of help afterwards.
dennisintn

[KarmaRoundUp]

 So joran's pimp pad is at the front of the whole compound?And the younger son's also have a seperate sleeping house?HITH could the so called parents possible keep an eye on their children?Thanks for the map *******

Karma ... our eldest son would have thought he had died and gone to heaven if he could have had his own separate quarters when he was a teenager.  However ... his parents were sooo mean.

His father and I did afford him his own room in the basement when he was sixteen years old.  It was a short term arrangement.  One month later ... it was revealed that he was sneaking out at night and meeting up with a girlfriend.  Tamikosmom had her sources way back then.     Anyways ... it was the last night that this guy slept in the basement room that he had worked so hard setting up ... laying new carpet .. painting .. etc.  His new night time  residence for the next two years was located right across the hall from his parents' room.

Janet

As well it should be with teens
I had my own apartment at age 15 but I was also paying my own bills.

[Lala'sMom]

So who is really responsible for Natalee's death?  Is it the bartender that gave her the "special drink," is it "Lorenzo" who may have sold the drugs, is it "Paulus," who was at the casino, is it "Anita" who has always enabled and mediated, or is it "Joran, Deepak and Satish?"

According to those on Aruba....it would be an accidental overdose by Natalee herself. Joran says it is Deepak that brought two dawgs with him. Satish had to ask how she was. Deepak says she asked for it. Paulus doesn't have a clue how she died, but he checked out his theories on the internet. Anita was off island. Lorenzo was hiding in his enclave. The bartender doesn't remember.  So who?

[BlueKYGirl]

I've always thought Lorenzo was involved, too--and the fact that Arubans always seem to freak out every time his name is mentioned only fuels my suspicions. I'm not saying J2K aren't responsible--I believe Lorenzo either supplied the drugs or a place to party after the group left C&Cs, at least. There are lots of rumors that point to him--I don't put much stock in the half-brother story, but it does strike me as suspicious that Joran was reportedly picked up near his home the next day. He just seems too ensconced in the seedy drug/rave culture of the island not to have played some sort of a part--it is not that big of an island, after all.

[bleachedblack]

This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

I think I would film the whole event. From the time the trap was recovered etc etc. I would obtain forensic evidence to test to determine if the remains were actually Natalee. My inclination and deepest wishes would be to hang on to the remains. But my guess would be that something fraudulent would be claimed such as "the remains were planted" if not surrendered at the time. I also could be wrong but I think anything found in the waters around Aruba ie sunken ships, treasure, skeletal remains legally belong to Aruba. Maybe someone knows more about this?

[private eye]

This may be an old subject, and if it is please forgive me.

What would you do if you were Beth and a body in a crab trap is found?

Turn it over to the Aruban authorities?

Turn it over to the FBI?

Closure vs Risk of magically turning blood into chocolate

I would turn it over to the FBI and let the FBI deal with ALE.  I wouldn't risk it disappearing with ALE.

I assume Beth has been given advice, which she is hopefully keeping to herself, but I tend to agree with you.

[private eye]

They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab:)

[private eye]

I've always thought Lorenzo was involved, too--and the fact that Arubans always seem to freak out every time his name is mentioned only fuels my suspicions. I'm not saying J2K aren't responsible--I believe Lorenzo either supplied the drugs or a place to party after the group left C&Cs, at least. There are lots of rumors that point to him--I don't put much stock in the half-brother story, but it does strike me as suspicious that Joran was reportedly picked up near his home the next day. He just seems too ensconced in the seedy drug/rave culture of the island not to have played some sort of a part--it is not that big of an island, after all.

When I googled his name he sure had a lot of hits, and none of them complimentary, but I can't tell since none of the stories seems credentialed. He must be a little "Slim Shady" dude on Aruba. I wonder what about his life has caused him to become so reclusive at such a young age? Drug induced paranoia? Slight mental condition? Just shy? Crooked and maintaining a low profile? Scared? All of Aruba knows but we will never know. Is he related to Remrandt or do they just share the last name and Dutch heritage? Some artistic types have been known to be reclusive.

[Lala'sMom]

Please do not mistake this as support that Lorenzo was involved...I am just throwing this out...I wish to eliminate him once and for all but I can't seem to make it happen. Too many people keep pointing at him.

# Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:01 pm

Simian

Possible alibis (or alibies) for #5:
Was in jail for DUI of illegal substances
Was filming himself
Was making a delivery
Was in Curaà §ao
Was painting his truck in Savaneta
None of the above
# Checkme on June 22nd, 2005 6:03 pm

Take care, CU tmrw. Over and out.
# Simian on June 22nd, 2005 6:04 pm

Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “the whole time”.