Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28 - 12/30/07

[Helen Back]

Therein lies the problem. The Dutch will not investigate themselves. In their eyes they can do no wrong.

I said it before, there were two ways to crack this case and they ignored one of them completely. The cover-up. The root of the problem goes all the way to the highest levels of government in Holland.

Well, I guess that will just have to be the choice of the Netherlands government.  From what I have read, not many Dutch citizens care about or think much of Aruba, what with their sovereignty and independence.  However, you would think it would be of some concern that the Dutch judges appointed for life, are running "a-muck" in the Antilles, obstructing justice to suit themselves and their buddies.  Reflects poorly on the Dutch justice system to have no accountability for judges.

All good reasons, IMO, to never travel to the Netherlands Antilles or any part of the Dutch kingdom.  They just don't seem to care much about crime, and the lack of transparency in their process is ripe for corruption.

Maybe one day the taxpaying citizens in the Netherlands will get tired of bailing out Aruba financially, and some change may happen.  Money always does the talking.  IMO

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

I am sure you recall how the Aruba/Dutch government gumflappers (Arlene comes to mind) and internet trolls defended all the strange occurances, the ones that make no sense, that occured during the case. Such a good system this Dutch one is that there is no possibility of corruption, right?

It all rings hollow now, doesn't it Helen? In fact, it all looks pre-planned for a pre-determined conclusion.

You know Dayhiker, that BS they were telling us smelled like a rat all along, and I think is one of the main reasons we are all here and Natalee's case is still so interesting to so many. People can be pretty understanding and forgiving of many things, including accidents, and things that go wrong for whatever reason.  But all reasonable people knew we were being lied to right out of the gate.  While people can be understanding of many things, being lied to is not one of them.  I would say that nothing makes people more PO'd.  It's insulting on many levels.

The audacity of the law enforcement, justice officials, official spokespeople, to lie to the family and the public over and over again is beyond anything I've witnessed.  Having learned nothing, they continue to do it, as MOS has flipped and begun to blame the family, the media, yadda yadda yadda.  Now we have Judge Bob Wit contradicting himself with his own lies as he tries to defend himself in the newspaper. 

Looking back, it's easy to see that the lies we were told from day one are proof that the cover up was in place immediately. 

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

[Nut44x4]

Someone in Aruba is watching us discuss Lorenzo and searching words
"alligator aruba" which brings up the SM story on Lorenzo's arrest...
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/21/lorenzo-van-rijn-arrested-on-drug-charges-in-aruba-hmm-ya-dont-say/


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[bleachedblack]

I do understand thisdesire to give over the evidence and get it away from Arubian authorities. But I have my reservations at this point about the FBI. Maybe Beth and Dave has spoken with FBI personnel involved or connected that would give them a reason to feel inclined to trust them, but at this time I don't know........

[San]

So who is really responsible for Natalee's death?  Is it the bartender that gave her the "special drink," is it "Lorenzo" who may have sold the drugs, is it "Paulus," who was at the casino, is it "Anita" who has always enabled and mediated, or is it "Joran, Deepak and Satish?"

It is the person who made the plan to kidnap her which is Joran.

[private eye]

I think that all tourists should be referred to the sites that seem to hate Beth prior to visiting Aruba so that they can learn first hand about the disposition of the people of Aruba. I am not sure what conclusion they will come to, but at least they will be prepared in advance, good or bad. No PR, just good honest communication and honesty about how they really feel.

[bleachedblack]

I've always thought Lorenzo was involved, too--and the fact that Arubans always seem to freak out every time his name is mentioned only fuels my suspicions. I'm not saying J2K aren't responsible--I believe Lorenzo either supplied the drugs or a place to party after the group left C&Cs, at least. There are lots of rumors that point to him--I don't put much stock in the half-brother story, but it does strike me as suspicious that Joran was reportedly picked up near his home the next day. He just seems too ensconced in the seedy drug/rave culture of the island not to have played some sort of a part--it is not that big of an island, after all.

When I googled his name he sure had a lot of hits, and none of them complimentary, but I can't tell since none of the stories seems credentialed. He must be a little "Slim Shady" dude on Aruba. I wonder what about his life has caused him to become so reclusive at such a young age? Drug induced paranoia? Slight mental condition? Just shy? Crooked and maintaining a low profile? Scared? All of Aruba knows but we will never know. Is he related to Remrandt or do they just share the last name and Dutch heritage? Some artistic types have been known to be reclusive.

He's a Slime Shady.

[private eye]

So who is really responsible for Natalee's death?  Is it the bartender that gave her the "special drink," is it "Lorenzo" who may have sold the drugs, is it "Paulus," who was at the casino, is it "Anita" who has always enabled and mediated, or is it "Joran, Deepak and Satish?"

It is the person who made the plan to kidnap her which is Joran.

Is it the death or the coverup which is the worst offense?

[private eye]

I've always thought Lorenzo was involved, too--and the fact that Arubans always seem to freak out every time his name is mentioned only fuels my suspicions. I'm not saying J2K aren't responsible--I believe Lorenzo either supplied the drugs or a place to party after the group left C&Cs, at least. There are lots of rumors that point to him--I don't put much stock in the half-brother story, but it does strike me as suspicious that Joran was reportedly picked up near his home the next day. He just seems too ensconced in the seedy drug/rave culture of the island not to have played some sort of a part--it is not that big of an island, after all.

When I googled his name he sure had a lot of hits, and none of them complimentary, but I can't tell since none of the stories seems credentialed. He must be a little "Slim Shady" dude on Aruba. I wonder what about his life has caused him to become so reclusive at such a young age? Drug induced paranoia? Slight mental condition? Just shy? Crooked and maintaining a low profile? Scared? All of Aruba knows but we will never know. Is he related to Remrandt or do they just share the last name and Dutch heritage? Some artistic types have been known to be reclusive.

He's a Slime Shady.

Or is he a loner who just minds his own business?

[private eye]

and likes mean dogs:)))))))

[San]

I do understand this desire to give over the evidence and get it away from Arubian authorities. But I have my reservations at this point about the FBI. Maybe Beth and Dave has spoken with FBI personnel involved or connected that would give them a reason to feel inclined to trust them, but at this time I don't know........

We have to trust someone.  I would trust the FBI right now because Aruba has tried to make fools of them (especially Dompig) and in my book payback is a bitch.

[San]

So who is really responsible for Natalee's death?  Is it the bartender that gave her the "special drink," is it "Lorenzo" who may have sold the drugs, is it "Paulus," who was at the casino, is it "Anita" who has always enabled and mediated, or is it "Joran, Deepak and Satish?"

It is the person who made the plan to kidnap her which is Joran.

Is it the death or the coverup which is the worst offense?

It is the death.

[bleachedblack]

private eye wrote;

Or is he a loner who just minds his own business?

IMO it would be  difficult to be a private reclusive individual and still make money selling drugs.

[JuJu]

the rumors about the ceremony for the elders which included sacrifice, virgin, and masks. (we have heard about someone saying that they had seen a video of Natalee, and someone who looked like Paulus with a mask, am I correct on that?)


WTF?

[San]

private eye wrote;

Or is he a loner who just minds his own business?

IMO it would be  difficult to be a private reclusive individual and still make money selling drugs.

Exactly.

[Helen Back]

Good afternoon and evening all.

It become time for me to left, the reason are personal circumstances.
I just want to tell, are there still good questions about the Dutch law?
Or when there is still something else what u want to ask me?
Please ask them when there are in this topic.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2486.new#new

To water roles concerning my cheeks of anger.
And the anger has predominated me and as a result of which I can almost not normal words used.
I want come tomorrow with an explain and when I really want left.
Take care,
NYC

mmmmmmmmmmmm.....she is crying, but I do not know why 
Personal problems?? Will come back tomorrow?
NYC usually isn't here this late, wonder what is wrong

I hope everything is OK.

[bleachedblack]

I do understand this desire to give over the evidence and get it away from Arubian authorities. But I have my reservations at this point about the FBI. Maybe Beth and Dave has spoken with FBI personnel involved or connected that would give them a reason to feel inclined to trust them, but at this time I don't know........

We have to trust someone.  I would trust the FBI right now because Aruba has tried to make fools of them (especially Dompig) and in my book payback is a bitch.

San I am sure you are right. Things have just gone so badly from the start in this case even with the FBI present that a part of me would be reluctant.

[Dayhiker]

I am sure you recall how the Aruba/Dutch government gumflappers (Arlene comes to mind) and internet trolls defended all the strange occurances, the ones that make no sense, that occured during the case. Such a good system this Dutch one is that there is no possibility of corruption, right?

It all rings hollow now, doesn't it Helen? In fact, it all looks pre-planned for a pre-determined conclusion.

You know Dayhiker, that BS they were telling us smelled like a rat all along, and I think is one of the main reasons we are all here and Natalee's case is still so interesting to so many. People can be pretty understanding and forgiving of many things, including accidents, and things that go wrong for whatever reason.  But all reasonable people knew we were being lied to right out of the gate.  While people can be understanding of many things, being lied to is not one of them.  I would say that nothing makes people more PO'd.  It's insulting on many levels.

The audacity of the law enforcement, justice officials, official spokespeople, to lie to the family and the public over and over again is beyond anything I've witnessed.  Having learned nothing, they continue to do it, as MOS has flipped and begun to blame the family, the media, yadda yadda yadda.  Now we have Judge Bob Wit contradicting himself with his own lies as he tries to defend himself in the newspaper. 

Looking back, it's easy to see that the lies we were told from day one are proof that the cover up was in place immediately. 

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

[/quote]


It is the obvious cover-up that enrages us and many Americans. It is bad enough a family had to lose a loved one on One Shitty Island, but to conduct such an obviously bogus investigation with such sheer arrogance is the icing on the cake.

The government just jumped behind the van der Sloots, judges and all, and said the hell with justice we don't care.

You know what is most obvious about their guilt? The Arubans immediately started behaving like defense attorneys rather than law enforcers. Within days they had assembled the Strategic Communications Task Farce, AHATA was behind the internet trolls and trashing the victim and her family in the media, the journalists (sans Jossy) like Renfro and Munzenhofer floated rumors on the internet to point away for the Sloots, etcetera ad nauseum.

Aruba is a mafia drug and money laundering paradise, the people that run the island are crooks, the Dutch system is a corrupt sham.

[LoRain]

Well if Alana thought Joran had a yacht and we all know he doesn't, right?  Than maybe she was talking about Koen.  I know I am beating a dead horse here, because it's been so long, but if Joran had already singled out Natalee from the very beginning that tells me that maybe the stuff about taking her to a rave party isn't as far fetched as some think.  Maybe, as I have said all along and many monkeys too, that Natalee was indeed chosen as a target.  Maybe the reason there was a scuffle between the MB kids and Joran was because he was trying to get in her good graces to butter her up, when that didn't work they told GVC to try and get her.  I guess I am just a bit out in left field here, but Alana says that Joran had met Natalee earlier.  To me that is important. 
 
 
Forgive me for bringing up such an old post but I was wondering if it was ever decided when Natalee met Joran?  Thanks....

[Helen Back]

Regarding Paulus, and his involvement which IMO, is much more than cover-up squad, there are two glaring problems for him (among many):

He's in the casino interacting with Natalee, which contradicts his statements to the police that he had gone home.  Why lie to the police about where you were unless you're involved?

He's seen driving around at the site of the mysterious "Painting of the Rocks".   Carpe's video called "Sabotage", clearly shows that the silhouette driving the silver car matches Paulus perfectly.  It's unmistakable.

What's Paulus doing there?

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

[dennisintn]

I am sure you recall how the Aruba/Dutch government gumflappers (Arlene comes to mind) and internet trolls defended all the strange occurances, the ones that make no sense, that occured during the case. Such a good system this Dutch one is that there is no possibility of corruption, right?

It all rings hollow now, doesn't it Helen? In fact, it all looks pre-planned for a pre-determined conclusion.

You know Dayhiker, that BS they were telling us smelled like a rat all along, and I think is one of the main reasons we are all here and Natalee's case is still so interesting to so many. People can be pretty understanding and forgiving of many things, including accidents, and things that go wrong for whatever reason.  But all reasonable people knew we were being lied to right out of the gate.  While people can be understanding of many things, being lied to is not one of them.  I would say that nothing makes people more PO'd.  It's insulting on many levels.

The audacity of the law enforcement, justice officials, official spokespeople, to lie to the family and the public over and over again is beyond anything I've witnessed.  Having learned nothing, they continue to do it, as MOS has flipped and begun to blame the family, the media, yadda yadda yadda.  Now we have Judge Bob Wit contradicting himself with his own lies as he tries to defend himself in the newspaper. 

Looking back, it's easy to see that the lies we were told from day one are proof that the cover up was in place immediately. 

The Caribbean Court of Justice is a joke.  The Hague is a joke.

It is the obvious cover-up that enrages us and many Americans. It is bad enough a family had to lose a loved one on One Shitty Island, but to conduct such an obviously bogus investigation with such sheer arrogance is the icing on the cake.

The government just jumped behind the van der Sloots, judges and all, and said the hell with justice we don't care.

You know what is most obvious about their guilt? The Arubans immediately started behaving like defense attorneys rather than law enforcers. Within days they had assembled the Strategic Communications Task Farce, AHATA was behind the internet trolls and trashing the victim and her family in the media, the journalists (sans Jossy) like Renfro and Munzenhofer floated rumors on the internet to point away for the Sloots, etcetera ad nauseum.

Aruba is a mafia drug and money laundering paradise, the people that run the island are crooks, the Dutch system is a corrupt sham.
[/quote]


and not only were they lying to american and other international media and natalee's family, they were telling another set of lies to the aruban population.  aruba steve made a point of telling somebody how hard it was to have different messages to get across for local consumption and to american parties.
dennisintn