Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28 - 12/30/07

[bleachedblack]

Someone in Aruba is watching us discuss Lorenzo and searching words
"alligator aruba" which brings up the SM story on Lorenzo's arrest...
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/21/lorenzo-van-rijn-arrested-on-drug-charges-in-aruba-hmm-ya-dont-say/


Domain Name   setardsl.aw ? (Aruba)
IP Address   199.0.82.# (SLBH/SETAR ARUBA)
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Country  :  Aruba  (Facts)
City  :  Oranjestad
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has anyone got the ability to look up the map coordinates listed abo ve?  that might be an interesting revelation.
dennisintn

Is that the location of the internet cafe?

[klaasend]

Well if Alana thought Joran had a yacht and we all know he doesn't, right?  Than maybe she was talking about Koen.  I know I am beating a dead horse here, because it's been so long, but if Joran had already singled out Natalee from the very beginning that tells me that maybe the stuff about taking her to a rave party isn't as far fetched as some think.  Maybe, as I have said all along and many monkeys too, that Natalee was indeed chosen as a target.  Maybe the reason there was a scuffle between the MB kids and Joran was because he was trying to get in her good graces to butter her up, when that didn't work they told GVC to try and get her.  I guess I am just a bit out in left field here, but Alana says that Joran had met Natalee earlier.  To me that is important. 
 
 
Forgive me for bringing up such an old post but I was wondering if it was ever decided when Natalee met Joran?  Thanks....

Does anyone have an answer to the above or should I quit thinking on it?

Not ignoring your post I just don't know the answer.  i think it's entirely possible Natalee crossed paths with Joran prior to that last night.  She may not have known his name but it's been said he was hanging out at the hotel and casino.

[klaasend]

BB - it's the location of one of the internet cafes.  One was in the Royal Plaza (I thought Deepak's) and the other in Seaport Village.  This would be Seaport Village (I believe that's what it's called)

[San]

Anna is right to say that we should only be speaking only of the involved, but it is the fault of the Aruban institutions that accomplished the cover up that has caused such a wide net to be cast in this case.

But Lorenzo is involved.  He has been questioned by authorities about
this case.  His name has been mentioned from the very beginning.
I do not know that he was involved in Natalee's actual disappearance.
I don't know that about Freddy or Koen or any of the others.
No one is offended if those people are mentioned.

Did you ever notice that Freddy is as almost as untouchable as Lorenzo.  Nothing sticks to Freddy.

[klaasend]

BB - it's the location of one of the internet cafes.  One was in the Royal Plaza (I thought Deepak's) and the other in Seaport Village.  This would be Seaport Village (I believe that's what it's called)

Upon closer view, it appears to be a home in that area (if the google map is correct):

[Hotshot]

Well if Alana thought Joran had a yacht and we all know he doesn't, right?  Than maybe she was talking about Koen.  I know I am beating a dead horse here, because it's been so long, but if Joran had already singled out Natalee from the very beginning that tells me that maybe the stuff about taking her to a rave party isn't as far fetched as some think.  Maybe, as I have said all along and many monkeys too, that Natalee was indeed chosen as a target.  Maybe the reason there was a scuffle between the MB kids and Joran was because he was trying to get in her good graces to butter her up, when that didn't work they told GVC to try and get her.  I guess I am just a bit out in left field here, but Alana says that Joran had met Natalee earlier.  To me that is important. 
 
 
Forgive me for bringing up such an old post but I was wondering if it was ever decided when Natalee met Joran?  Thanks....

Does anyone have an answer to the above or should I quit thinking on it?

Alana says for a few days.  Everyone else says the previous night.  Can't answer that for sure.

[Magnolia]

Anna is right to say that we should only be speaking only of the involved, but it is the fault of the Aruban institutions that accomplished the cover up that has caused such a wide net to be cast in this case.

But Lorenzo is involved.  He has been questioned by authorities about
this case.  His name has been mentioned from the very beginning.
I do not know that he was involved in Natalee's actual disappearance.
I don't know that about Freddy or Koen or any of the others.
No one is offended if those people are mentioned.

Did you ever notice that Freddy is as almost as untouchable as Lorenzo.  Nothing sticks to Freddy.

Yes...I could not believe that he was not arrested long before he was.
When he was arrested wasn't it for the movie and sex with the underage girl?

[bleachedblack]

BB - it's the location of one of the internet cafes.  One was in the Royal Plaza (I thought Deepak's) and the other in Seaport Village.  This would be Seaport Village (I believe that's what it's called)

......it is near the rennaisance i think

[bleachedblack]

BB - it's the location of one of the internet cafes.  One was in the Royal Plaza (I thought Deepak's) and the other in Seaport Village.  This would be Seaport Village (I believe that's what it's called)

Upon closer view, it appears to be a home in that area (if the google map is correct):

you are right the Rennasaince is farther down, that little area to the right of the boat basin looks like it has a little lake

[San]

Anna is right to say that we should only be speaking only of the involved, but it is the fault of the Aruban institutions that accomplished the cover up that has caused such a wide net to be cast in this case.

But Lorenzo is involved.  He has been questioned by authorities about
this case.  His name has been mentioned from the very beginning.
I do not know that he was involved in Natalee's actual disappearance.
I don't know that about Freddy or Koen or any of the others.
No one is offended if those people are mentioned.

Did you ever notice that Freddy is as almost as untouchable as Lorenzo.  Nothing sticks to Freddy.

Yes...I could not believe that he was not arrested long before he was.
When he was arrested wasn't it for the movie and sex with the underage girl?

Yes I believe it was Magnolia.  Didn't they say he took a video.

[Tylergal]

Well if Alana thought Joran had a yacht and we all know he doesn't, right?  Than maybe she was talking about Koen.  I know I am beating a dead horse here, because it's been so long, but if Joran had already singled out Natalee from the very beginning that tells me that maybe the stuff about taking her to a rave party isn't as far fetched as some think.  Maybe, as I have said all along and many monkeys too, that Natalee was indeed chosen as a target.  Maybe the reason there was a scuffle between the MB kids and Joran was because he was trying to get in her good graces to butter her up, when that didn't work they told GVC to try and get her.  I guess I am just a bit out in left field here, but Alana says that Joran had met Natalee earlier.  To me that is important. 
 
 
Forgive me for bringing up such an old post but I was wondering if it was ever decided when Natalee met Joran?  Thanks....

Does anyone have an answer to the above or should I quit thinking on it?

Alana says for a few days.  Everyone else says the previous night.  Can't answer that for sure.

If memory serves and it probably does not, they had seen Joran several times and were laughing that he had on the same blue plaid shirt each time and even had it on in the pictures they saw from Spring Break.

[Anna]

Good afternoon and evening all.

It become time for me to left, the reason are personal circumstances.
I just want to tell, are there still good questions about the Dutch law?
Or when there is still something else what u want to ask me?
Please ask them when there are in this topic.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2486.new#new

To water roles concerning my cheeks of anger.
And the anger has predominated me and as a result of which I can almost not normal words used.
I want come tomorrow with an explain and when I really want left.
Take care,
NYC

mmmmmmmmmmmm.....she is crying, but I do not know why 
Personal problems?? Will come back tomorrow?
NYC usually isn't here this late, wonder what is wrong

Gee, I wonder what it could possibly be!   

[Magnolia]

private eye wrote;

Or is he a loner who just minds his own business?

IMO it would be  difficult to be a private reclusive individual and still make money selling drugs.

Exactly.

It has been my observation that people who deal LARGE quantities
of drugs are very reclusive.  They do not bother with the small
stuff or the small time dealers.  Drugs go through many hands
before they reach the street level.
Since Lorenzo has the living quarters that Dave describes and we
have seen pictures of, he is a major dealer and law inforcement
in Aruba is well aware of his connections.  I believe that he gets
his drugs directly from Columbia in large quantities and only turns
over large quantities.

He didn't become this big time drug dealer overnight.  He at one point was a low man on the totem pole.  Or is it that he inherited the job from his father.  Yes I agree when you are that big you don't go out partying to CnC's you would want to keep a low profile especially from the competition.  Did he just go on the island and say here I am and I'm taking over.  I don't think so.  He got to where he is somehow.  Everyone fears him on the island.  Is this a myth or is it fact.  At the time of Natalee's disappearance he was about 25-26 years old.

I have thought this a while now so I will throw it out there.  They say he is crazy and would he have been crazy enough to kill his father who in my opinion was not really his father.  They said his father killed himself.  I don't believe that one bit and I think Lorenzo killed him.  JMO.

San, A poster from Aruba said in the very beginning that Lorenzo's father was
killed by Dutch drug lords.  He was a drug dealer and I think Lorenzo went into
the family business.

[Tylergal]

Lala's I love reading the old posts from the beginning, especially posts about other tourists. Thanks for bringing them

       I recall an unpleasant experience that happened involving both my daughter and myself while in Aruba and having lunch in Carlos and Charlies. So believe me there is most definitely a "seedy side" though many will deny. We entered C+C's at 2:30 pm for a bite to eat. Mid afternoon, many tourists  were present. Shortly after we sat down and ordered the attention started. There were waiters tickling my daughter  as they passed, chatting and flirting. Things did not seem dangerous, but I was aware that this was where Natalee had last been seen alive. Our food came, no drinks......my daughter was 16. Just as we were finishing our lunch a waiter came to the table carrying a tray with something under a napkin. In one fast swoop, he sat his tray down, took from beneath the napkin a shot glass filled with something , he put his right hand on her forehead and in the left held the glass. He tipped back her head and poured the shot down her throat.

Just like you read sometimes....about time moving s-l-o-w-l-y....that is just what happened. I could hear from patrons in the room a collective hushed gasp. I quickly said, "Don't drink that! They killed Natalee!" It was to late. It was definitely alcohol.

As we quickly left they all said, "Come back later....see you tonight".

Did I call the police...No. Should I have called the police ...of course. Do I regret not calling ....yes.

This happened to my daughter and I in March 2006. Bleachedblack

They might have tickled my daughter one time but after that happened, I would have been out of there quicker than you can spin on your heels and a 16 year old is a minor.  I would have reported their "touching" her to the local authorities.  Maybe it would have done no good, but they would have known I had been there.  No one would touch my 16 year old in that manner.  I would fight a circle saw about something like that.  To hell with eating.  I would have left toute suite and they could serve up their goodies to somebody else.

[bleachedblack]

Lala's I love reading the old posts from the beginning, especially posts about other tourists. Thanks for bringing them

       I recall an unpleasant experience that happened involving both my daughter and myself while in Aruba and having lunch in Carlos and Charlies. So believe me there is most definitely a "seedy side" though many will deny. We entered C+C's at 2:30 pm for a bite to eat. Mid afternoon, many tourists  were present. Shortly after we sat down and ordered the attention started. There were waiters tickling my daughter  as they passed, chatting and flirting. Things did not seem dangerous, but I was aware that this was where Natalee had last been seen alive. Our food came, no drinks......my daughter was 16. Just as we were finishing our lunch a waiter came to the table carrying a tray with something under a napkin. In one fast swoop, he sat his tray down, took from beneath the napkin a shot glass filled with something , he put his right hand on her forehead and in the left held the glass. He tipped back her head and poured the shot down her throat.

Just like you read sometimes....about time moving s-l-o-w-l-y....that is just what happened. I could hear from patrons in the room a collective hushed gasp. I quickly said, "Don't drink that! They killed Natalee!" It was to late. It was definitely alcohol.

As we quickly left they all said, "Come back later....see you tonight".

Did I call the police...No. Should I have called the police ...of course. Do I regret not calling ....yes.

This happened to my daughter and I in March 2006. Bleachedblack

They might have tickled my daughter one time but after that happened, I would have been out of there quicker than you can spin on your heels and a 16 year old is a minor.  I would have reported their "touching" her to the local authorities.  Maybe it would have done no good, but they would have known I had been there.  No one would touch my 16 year old in that manner.  I would fight a circle saw about something like that.  To hell with eating.  I would have left toute suite and they could serve up their goodies to somebody else.

Hind sight is 20/20  after the fact I would agree. Maybe I didn't recount things exactly but anyway.............good for you

[San]

private eye wrote;

Or is he a loner who just minds his own business?

IMO it would be  difficult to be a private reclusive individual and still make money selling drugs.

Exactly.

It has been my observation that people who deal LARGE quantities
of drugs are very reclusive.  They do not bother with the small
stuff or the small time dealers.  Drugs go through many hands
before they reach the street level.
Since Lorenzo has the living quarters that Dave describes and we
have seen pictures of, he is a major dealer and law inforcement
in Aruba is well aware of his connections.  I believe that he gets
his drugs directly from Columbia in large quantities and only turns
over large quantities.

He didn't become this big time drug dealer overnight.  He at one point was a low man on the totem pole.  Or is it that he inherited the job from his father.  Yes I agree when you are that big you don't go out partying to CnC's you would want to keep a low profile especially from the competition.  Did he just go on the island and say here I am and I'm taking over.  I don't think so.  He got to where he is somehow.  Everyone fears him on the island.  Is this a myth or is it fact.  At the time of Natalee's disappearance he was about 25-26 years old.

I have thought this a while now so I will throw it out there.  They say he is crazy and would he have been crazy enough to kill his father who in my opinion was not really his father.  They said his father killed himself.  I don't believe that one bit and I think Lorenzo killed him.  JMO.

San, A poster from Aruba said in the very beginning that Lorenzo's father was
killed by Dutch drug lords.  He was a drug dealer and I think Lorenzo went into
the family business.

Thanks Magnolia.  If you were Lorenzo and your father was killed would you want to go into the family business.

One more question.  How old was Lorenzo when his father was killed.

[Magnolia]

San, the poster from Aruba said that it was three years before
Natalee disappeared.  So he must have been 23 or thereabout.

Yes, I can see him going into the family business.
Likely he was already involved in it and knew the ropes.
That is probably why he is so paranoid.

[klaasend]

San - want to say he was died in 2003?  If so then Lorenzo would have been in his early 20's

[San]

San - want to say he was died in 2003?  If so then Lorenzo would have been in his early 20's

Thanks Magnolia and Klaas.

I just feel he had a hand in his father's death.

[yapperz1]

In my opinion:

Half the time, you have the wrong Lorenzo.  Lorenzo van Rijn is not the one with the escort services at all.  He is a RECLUSE.  This means he does not go to night clubs or casinos much at all if ever.  He does not have RAVE parties and his nickname is not XTC.  My source for this is two people on the island.

He grows weed and from the looks of it, I would suspect that it is that Nederweed.  Some of the Dutch have turned their exquisite and exceptional botanical skills to the development of this product which is reported to be ten times stronger than regular pot.

The "party" the night Natalee disappeared had six people in attendance if you want to call that a Rave.  Did you ever think people might be protective of him because he suffers from problems and his father committed suicide making him four time more likely to do so himself by statistics? 

He is no more Joran's half brother than I am and Jossy has always qualified any statements about him, which are ALWAYS in answer to a question and never just on his own, with it is a rumor or "it is said."  That is a pure Julia rumor if I ever heard one, straight out of soap opera lore.  He was born in Aruba before Paulus moved there for one thing. 

He was questioned because of his previous drug arrests back when he did deal in XTC to see if they asked him to buy drugs or if he had sold them any X or GHB.  If he were really Joran's half brother or anything could be pinned on him, I believe Joran would have mentioned him in his book and certainly Anita and her minions from hell would have been doing so long ago.

In my opinion only but most of that I have verified with TWO sources from the island.  Where are his photos in the bars, etc.?  There aren't any because he is so reclusive.  Of course you can continue to stalk him if you like but it's a waste of time and this has been told several times to different people from islanders and yet it is just ignored.  Odd, that.

Flame away. . . . I just don't think it's right to try to force people to be involved who aren't.

.

Anna,
How can you be so sure Lorenzo wasn't involved? None of us were there & only have the word of islanders to go on. IMO no 2 tell the same tale.
I was told that Lorenzo was born in Holland & not on Aruba. I can't prove it. So it may or may not be true.
I find it quite strange that when anyone speculates about Lorenzo YOU accuse us of stalking him. We no more stalk him than any of the other persons of interest on the island. MOO