Natalee Case Discussion #709 12/30 - 1/3/08

[MumInOhio]

This from Rhiel World...Only checked the first link and didn't see what I was looking for.

Marigot Bay,
Satish Kalpoe is linked to Steve Croes via the http://elektron.et.tudelft.nl/%7Eryan/ site.
Steve Croes is listed on this pic, http://elektron.et.tudelft.nl/~ensermo/mike/pages/alltogether.htm , while underneath that original pic was the link to http://elektron.et.tudelft.nl/%7Eryan/ , where Satish Kalpoe happened to be on picture 37 in the 2004 picture album. godd bless the internet, mate!
Posted by: Joran in Jail | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 04:27 PM

                       ---------------------------------------

Interesting when we look back how deliberately Aruba set out to deceive.

Lorenzo Wever……Lorenzo or Guido

Max Arends/Max Arenz…….17 year old student or 26 year old friend of LVR


Steve Croes….DJ, EMT or a pilot and from an influential family to boot. Had a record of violence and a big time drug dealer.(all posted 6/17/2005)

Surinese brothers/Dutch brothers

Arrests…not connected…they didn’t happen

Two dogs….need I go further………………………

[ldstlou]

Apparently, today they did a couple of Do-Overs since the Daily Zoom was empty.  Twice.  So today they did it three times to finally get some people in the photo.  Very strange for a place 100% booked through the holidays.

http://www.bucuticam.com/bucutizoom.html

 A left handed shit throwing contest looks  more fun to be at huh? 

I think I may have been to a couple of those that were more fun than that place looks.  And sometimes some of those people in the Zoom look oddly like locals to me, too tanned and leathery for tourists, lol.

/

Not poking fun at south paws,, its just a saying we have here in PA.  

Yep, regional expressions can be pretty funny sometimes.   All day I've been hearing ones about what it is colder than here, lol, some pretty humorous but unrepeatable on a forum, however.

.

 Well its been colder then a witches BEWB here too.. if thats what you mean...  Windy and snow..18 degrees out..
Hope its warm for you.. this cold stinks

We beat ya in St Louis. Was 14 degrees when I dropped my little guy off at school a little bit ago. BBBBRRRR!!!

[msmarple]

Just wanted to mention that Diario is online for Jan. 3 - the first edition since 12/31.

Also, the online edition has been re-designed.

http://news.diario-aruba.com/

[Nut44x4]

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3339/5/

Can anyone tell where this fire was?? It looks huge!

[MumInOhio]

Some interesting posts from the front page about the casino video. I recall that it was discussed a few weeks back.

   10061906 on May 10th, 2007 5:52 pm
I have a problem with this casino tape.
Play it frame by frame. It shows Natalee walking into the casino at 20:58.
The time line when she is sitting at the table is 20:25
At one point at 20:25 it appears she is on a cell phone and Lee is not there.
At another frame also 20:25 Natalee has no phone is just sitting and watching and Lee is back. I’m not trying to rewrite anything but how can you be seated watching a card game before you come into the casino? Also the two times when Joran enters the casino and the camera cuts to the table with the MBHS Students they are two different scenes.

   minnesota dad on May 10th, 2007 6:55 pm
1006 -
My point from the other day. The time stamps on the videos are wacky. Joran shows up thirty minutes before….Natalee shows up thirty minutes after she was supposed to be at that table.
   
Based on all of the corruption and timeline shuffling going on….here is what I think.
Joran entered the casino at 7:58pm.
Natalee entered at 8:58pm
Card Game shows 8:25pm consistently on all of the clips.
Its as if….someone wanted the timeline to fit with the testimony that was out there. Joran testified that he did not make it to the blackjack tables until 10:pm after playing out his father’s “free” chips at the Free Texas Hold ‘em Tourney.
Joran stating this would help out Paulus’ alibi and would distance Paulus from how late he was there playing blackjack. I believe the clock on the camera shots has been altered to attempt to show that Paulus was at the casino earlier in the evening (8:25pm) without worrying about Joran’s testimony…..because he lies anyways. If Paulus was at the casino after the time where Natalee entered (8:58pm)…it once again screws up Paulus’ alibi and timeline.
In the end….Paulus is your perp. This appears to be one more attempt by Aruban law enforcement to leak information that would help timelines that has backfired. What a bunch of amateurs.


1.   10061906 on May 10th, 2007 7:44 pm
Minnesota Dad: Thanks I thought I wasn’t seeing something correctly; My opinion these videos have been altered. It wasn’t stolen and leaked to ABC.
It was a deliberate attempt to alter timelines.
Check the frames. I’m sure Natalee is on a cellphone. Another she is constantly looking at Ruth’s watch.
It is almost as if she can’t wait to go somewhere to meet someone.

[2NJSons_Mom]

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3339/5/

Can anyone tell where this fire was?? It looks huge!

ftp://

Looks like it was 'dam di Matadera'.....deplorable conditions were mentioned in this November issue, with video & pics:

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/2933/

[dennisintn]

Apparently, today they did a couple of Do-Overs since the Daily Zoom was empty.  Twice.  So today they did it three times to finally get some people in the photo.  Very strange for a place 100% booked through the holidays.

http://www.bucuticam.com/bucutizoom.html

anna, i counted 9 people on the beach itself.  that's a bumper crop comparatively speaking, and i check almost every day.  of course, it's only ll am down there so a lot of their visitors haven't recuperated from last nights drugs and alcohol and probably some are negotiating loans to pay off casino losses from last night.  it's aruba, you know.
dennisintn

[AZSunny]

Good Morning! 

Several weeks ago, at the time of the release of the suspects, Josy said that he was going to pull out all of the information and time lines he is aware of and revisit everything, and he was going to expose what he knows in the paper.  Has there been any more said about that?   

Where did Rob and Easy go? 

[ldstlou]

Good Morning! 

Several weeks ago, at the time of the release of the suspects, Josy said that he was going to pull out all of the information and time lines he is aware of and revisit everything, and he was going to expose what he knows in the paper.  Has there been any more said about that?   

Where did Rob and Easy go? 

I was thinking about Jossy this morning too AZ...wish he would start talking again!!!

[AZSunny]

Good Morning! 

Several weeks ago, at the time of the release of the suspects, Josy said that he was going to pull out all of the information and time lines he is aware of and revisit everything, and he was going to expose what he knows in the paper.  Has there been any more said about that?   

Where did Rob and Easy go? 

I was thinking about Jossy this morning too AZ...wish he would start talking again!!!

I do too!  I have a feeling he has a lot of info in his back pocket that he hasn't shared publically.  I was hoping it would all come out in print.  With the holidays however, he probably hasn't had the time.

[Helen Back]

Morning monkeys,

Just wondering if anyone has heard from NYC lover?  I hope all is well.   

[crazybabyborg]

Hi guys! I heard something a while ago on Fox about a college group that is looking into the Sandra Levy murder and also the Natalee Holloway case? I was on hold on the phone and got interrupted, so don't have details. Did anyone see it? I'm working but will see what I can find on it.

[klaasend]

Hi guys! I heard something a while ago on Fox about a college group that is looking into the Sandra Levy murder and also the Natalee Holloway case? I was on hold on the phone and got interrupted, so don't have details. Did anyone see it? I'm working but will see what I can find on it.

Yes, it was posted yesterday 

http://ap.google.com:80/article/ALeqM5jJriCiFGEwdgNBSImpOIiAHsPqUAD8TTAO2O1

[Helen Back]

More publicity =

Georgia students will sift through evidence for clues in the murder

By EMILIE RAGUSO
eraguso@modbee.comand MICHAEL DOYLE
BEE WASHINGTON BUREAU

last updated: January 01, 2008 01:17:01 A


[snip]
Will take up Holloway case, too

Students this year also will probe the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway, a high school student from Alabama who vanished during a graduation trip in Aruba.

Students meet monthly to share insights from their research and hear from speakers who worked the case or have other expertise. McCollum has considered inviting former Washington, D.C., Police Chief Charles Ramsey to speak. He was chief during the Levy investigation.

She plans to bring in a technology expert to talk about Levy's computer and explain what Web sites she apparently visited before her disappearance might reveal. It's all about exposure to information sources officers regularly mine, she said.

There is a tradition of college students finding justice in old cases. At Northwestern University Law School in Illinois, for instance, the Center on Wrongful Convictions has exonerated death row inmates.

Levy's parents, through Washington-based attorney Billy Martin, had their own private investigators looking into the murder.

The private investigators kicked up a bit of a fuss, including the discovery of some bones that had been missed by police, but they, along with Martin, have long since left the case.

"They promised to contact me," Susan Levy said, "but they never have."

Former FBI agent Brad Garrett, the chief federal investigator in the matter, has retired and started his own Northern Virginia investigations firm.

"If I had the money to, I would hire him," Levy said. "I just can't afford it."

Former D.C. Chief Ramsey has become police chief in Philadelphia, while his former deputy, Terrance Gainer, is now sergeant-at-arms for the U.S. Senate.

Met new D.C. police chief

Susan Levy made a point of flying to Washington about a year ago to meet with Ramsey's replacement, Cathy L. Lanier. There have been more than 1,000 homicides in Washington since Chandra Levy died, and Susan Levy wanted to make sure her daughter wasn't forgotten.

"As a woman, I immediately felt a connection to her," Levy said of Lanier. "She seemed very, very warm."

Levy said Lanier assured her that much is possible. The department has top-notch investigators. Cold cases are reopened. Last year, Washington, D.C., police solved 70 percent of all homicides.

That represents progress. In 2003, Washington police solved 60 percent of homicides.

Still, it means about one in three Washington murders remains unsolved. The police department has its own cold case experts, for whom the Bauder College students will serve as voluntary reinforcements.

For the families of victims in cases they've studied, McCollum said, extra help is often a blessing. Students reach out to survivors whenever possible. Parents come to the college to speak. Others have called the institute weekly for updates. McCollum has invited Susan Levy to Georgia to talk to students.
[snip]

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/167078.html

I wonder if the Holloway case will become a 'staple' on college campuses in the U.S.

I think it would be great to get Art Wood or someone who helped on Natalee's case to speak for these students.Maybe even Beth or Dave,to give a parent's point of view.

Bump for CBB....

[crazybabyborg]

Thanks Klaas and Helen! I think we should let them know of the documents available right here!

During the interview, the students said they had contributed to resolution of other cases.

[kgwallace88]

Welcome Tealady!  The video is GREAT, thanks for taking the time to make it and for putting it out there for the world to see. 

Hi texasmom! I'm very happy to meet you & thank you for the kind words on the video.

Well, monkey's it's past time for my bedtime & I'm going to go tuck in. Thank you for making my first day on SC a most pleasurable one! 'Nite nite. 

Hey I can't find this video that ya'll are talking about . . .can someone help out a new monkey?

[MuffyBee]

Thanks Klaas and Helen! I think we should let them know of the documents available right here!

During the interview, the students said they had contributed to resolution of other cases.

These are the folks that are reopening Chandra Levy's case, right?  When I was reading and posting about that in her thread, I saw mention of Natalee Holloway's case, but I don't recall it saying they would investigate hers too.  That would be really, really great if they could.  The plus side is, they may be able to find out some things we don't.  And I'm sure they are gaining experience in looking at these cases and seeing corruption and cover-up as they go along...

[Helen Back]

Thanks Klaas and Helen! I think we should let them know of the documents available right here!

During the interview, the students said they had contributed to resolution of other cases.

Perhaps they can help us spread the story of the corruption and cover up that prevented any resolution to the Natalee Holloway case.

There has been such a mountain of work done here, by Natalee's Freebirds, and others, but where can it go?  As several posters have written, if a videotape of the crimes against Natalee was presented as evidence, it would not make a difference.

As long as the CORRUPT JUDGE RICK SMID  IS ON PATROL, GUARDING THE SUSPECTS IN THIS CASE, THERE WILL NOT BE A PROSECUTION.    I think Hans Mos recently got that memo from Rudy Croes, the Minister of Injustice.

My hopes are now with the brave search team of the Persistence.  Perhaps what they discover can bring some measure of truth to Natalee's Loving Family.  Whether Natalee is found in the ocean or not, I'm sure Natalee's family will have some comfort from knowing that these brilliant and dedicated people conducted the search.

Hopefully, there is a documentary being produced that will be the most powerful testament that can be shown.  So few words are necessary to explain why these people, on behalf of Natalee's loved ones, are searching the ocean floor for their precious one.

When Natalee is found and the truth is know about what happened to this child, it will not be due to the efforts of the COWARDS OF ARUBA. 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Welcome Tealady!  The video is GREAT, thanks for taking the time to make it and for putting it out there for the world to see. 

Hi texasmom! I'm very happy to meet you & thank you for the kind words on the video.

Well, monkey's it's past time for my bedtime & I'm going to go tuck in. Thank you for making my first day on SC a most pleasurable one! 'Nite nite. 

Hey I can't find this video that ya'll are talking about . . .can someone help out a new monkey?

Here you go....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=U1pZxfmJFCY

[Tamikosmom]

Some interesting posts from the front page about the casino video. I recall that it was discussed a few weeks back.

   10061906 on May 10th, 2007 5:52 pm
I have a problem with this casino tape.
Play it frame by frame. It shows Natalee walking into the casino at 20:58.
The time line when she is sitting at the table is 20:25
At one point at 20:25 it appears she is on a cell phone and Lee is not there.
At another frame also 20:25 Natalee has no phone is just sitting and watching and Lee is back. I’m not trying to rewrite anything but how can you be seated watching a card game before you come into the casino? Also the two times when Joran enters the casino and the camera cuts to the table with the MBHS Students they are two different scenes.

   minnesota dad on May 10th, 2007 6:55 pm
1006 -
My point from the other day. The time stamps on the videos are wacky. Joran shows up thirty minutes before….Natalee shows up thirty minutes after she was supposed to be at that table.
   
Based on all of the corruption and timeline shuffling going on….here is what I think.
Joran entered the casino at 7:58pm.
Natalee entered at 8:58pm
Card Game shows 8:25pm consistently on all of the clips.
Its as if….someone wanted the timeline to fit with the testimony that was out there. Joran testified that he did not make it to the blackjack tables until 10:pm after playing out his father’s “free” chips at the Free Texas Hold ‘em Tourney.
Joran stating this would help out Paulus’ alibi and would distance Paulus from how late he was there playing blackjack. I believe the clock on the camera shots has been altered to attempt to show that Paulus was at the casino earlier in the evening (8:25pm) without worrying about Joran’s testimony…..because he lies anyways. If Paulus was at the casino after the time where Natalee entered (8:58pm)…it once again screws up Paulus’ alibi and timeline.
In the end….Paulus is your perp. This appears to be one more attempt by Aruban law enforcement to leak information that would help timelines that has backfired. What a bunch of amateurs.


1.   10061906 on May 10th, 2007 7:44 pm
Minnesota Dad: Thanks I thought I wasn’t seeing something correctly; My opinion these videos have been altered. It wasn’t stolen and leaked to ABC.
It was a deliberate attempt to alter timelines.
Check the frames. I’m sure Natalee is on a cellphone. Another she is constantly looking at Ruth’s watch.
It is almost as if she can’t wait to go somewhere to meet someone.

Joran and Paulus' official declarations establish the May 29, 2005 chain of events and ... the chain of events imply that Paulus left the casino part way through the poker tournament and ... Joran went to the black jack table following the poker tournament and ... Natalee Holloway enter the scenario a short time later.

If the casino video captures Paulus conversing with Natalee at the black jack table ... the implication is that both Paulus and Joran lied regarding what time Paulus left the casino.  Lies are created to cover the truth.  Why did Joran and Paulus deem it necessary in their declaration to cover the truth regarding when "Paulus met Natalee".

Janet

+++++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

I was done sooner than my father and I went and hung around in the casino. When it was half time of the game my father wanted to go home to go and babysit my ten year old brother. At my father's request I sat in for him and played "Texas Hold'm poker. I am not sure as to when half time was but I think it was between 19.00 and 20.00 hours. I kept on gambling until I lost too. This was according to me until 21.30 to 22.00 hours. I went to walk around in the casino and after that went to the "Blackjack" table to play blackjack. While I was sitting at the table the girl "Natalee" that is missing now to the blackjack table together with her friends.


Paulus van der Sloot
Witness Statement
June 18, 2005

On May 29th 2005, at approximately 16.00 hours, I went with Joran to the “Free Carribean Stud Tournament” in the Holiday Inn. During the break, at approximately 18.30 hours, I went back home. My youngest son Sebastian who was playing at a friends house was due to be dropped off at home around that time. Joran, with my permission, took over my seat because he had been eliminated earlier. We had agreed that he would call me after the tournament, in order for me to come and pick him up. He did indeed call me and at approximately 23.00 hour I picked him up near the Mc Donalds in Palm Beach with my red Suzuki. We drove home and I went to bed.


Katherine (Madison) Whatley
FBI Statement
July 12, 2005

After swimming at the hotel on Sunday, WHATLEY and other classmates, including HOLLOWAY, ate dinner at a restaurant next to the hotel. After dinner they went to the casino at the hotel. A few classmates were gambling at a card table along with an "older man" and YURON VAN DER SLOOT. (Whatley 302)