Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[texasmom]

Hello everyone.  When Natalee disappeared in May of 2005 was Anita in Holland?  And were the other two boys with her or Pauls?

Depends upon who you ask.  According to the Sloots, when Natalee went missing Anita was still in the NL but Valintijn and Sebastian were home with PVDS and Joran.

It has always been my opinion that the two younger boys were with
Anita in the NL.  But there is no conformation of that.

Mine also,Especially if that is PVDS on the video drinking and gambling next to Natalee at 8:30PM. He claims that he left the casino hours earlier because Sebastian was gonna be dropped off at home Why would he lie about that? I guess because he could,by the time he even made that statement Anita and the kids were already home. I don't know how old Sebastian was,maybee 10 or 12? But it was a school night and PVDS would not be out drinking and gambling if the youngest was at home and it being after 8pm. It  looks to me like both Joran and Paulus were at play while Anita and the younger boys were away.IMO

I have many of the same questions about all of this, I posted in the theories area a little while ago....  If the younger sons were with AVDS than there are SO MANY lies in PVDS statements regarding that evening and the next couple of days.  I seem to recall statements about the younger boys catching the school bus etc.  It's just too convenient in my opinion that AVDS remained in Holland until after the crime.

[Observer]

Hello everyone.  When Natalee disappeared in May of 2005 was Anita in Holland?  And were the other two boys with her or Pauls?

I have many of the same questions about all of this, I posted in the theories area a little while ago....  If the younger sons were with AVDS than there are SO MANY lies in PVDS statements regarding that evening and the next couple of days.  I seem to recall statements about the younger boys catching the school bus etc.  It's just too convenient in my opinion that AVDS remained in Holland until after the crime.

PVDS is lying bigtime as his forgetfull memory would indicate. Hard to tell for sure exactly what are definite lies though  I believe two things he did tell the truth about is when he told people he had two contacts with Natalee and picked/dropped off her&joran up at 4AM. We know he then changed his story saying that isn't true. He was probably nailed on wiretaps explaining his situation to friends of his so they could help cover his tracks. Witnesses also heard him say 4AM that first night,So they have him on tape and witnesses that heard the same thing. It's not like it was one simple mistake of someone mis-inerpeting 11pm as 4am. The only person as interested in the HI/Casino video's as Natalee's Family was PVDS.

Deepak's statement "Your Own Father..Unbelievable" I think is quite telling. In my opinion he said it because PVDS covered up the crimes,never got Natalee help and arranged her burial. It is possible PVDS is even more involved than that.MO

[Tylergal]

Lala's, do you want to tell us about your premonition?

Klaas, can you bring that conversation over here? 

Which conversation and where is it?

Mos thread at RU.  I am sorry, but I had to go see the Romney boys.  They were being interviewed.  My what some good looking guys.  Maybe they could just run as a unit to be president.

[klaasend]

Lala's, do you want to tell us about your premonition?

Klaas, can you bring that conversation over here? 

Which conversation and where is it?

Mos thread at RU.  I am sorry, but I had to go see the Romney boys.  They were being interviewed.  My what some good looking guys.  Maybe they could just run as a unit to be president.

Tylergal, it's several pages long now and really nothing more that bickering back and forth with an occasional vile post by WangChung inbetween.  Not worth reading actually, IMO.

[Sue]

Has there been any news today about Kalpoe/Phil court hearing today???

[Observer]

Has there been any news today about Kalpoe/Phil court hearing today???

Hi Sue,

I havent seen anything.

[Sue]

Has there been any news today about Kalpoe/Phil court hearing today???

Hi Sue,

I havent seen anything.

crapola the pins are hurting my ass that I am sitting on waiting

[Port Valerie]

My prayers go up for the Persistence crew and the work you are doing.

[Observer]

Has there been any news today about Kalpoe/Phil court hearing today???

Hi Sue,

I havent seen anything.

crapola the pins are hurting my ass that I am sitting on waiting

lol. Yes It's been going on for what over a year already? The Dishonorable Judge Wit wrote that letter to the Dr.Phil Attys explaining why some of the the case files could not be released until a decision of the case has been made.  We know thats been done,now what?

[klaasend]

Posted by Victor at Scrux:

Interview with Hans Mos (translation) - Bon Dia


Please note the mere part of the article is the opinion of the interviewer/author of the article, Mos is quoted about 12 times, even if it may seem otherwise, that is the way the article is written)



HANS MOS DOES NOT UNDERSTAND IRRITATION ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE KLPD.

"When an investigation is stuck, it is only logical to let others help look for the solution?"
The Fiscal Mayor esteems the case of Natalee Holloway has cost between 5- 10 million dollars.

Oranjestad, still no solution in the case of Natalee Holloway was a reason for frustration for some to decide that the work did not come to a conclusion.
But a frustration does not have to be negative, the contrary. The opinion of Hans Mos, the sentiment here results in staying to keep putting energy in the case in order to be finally able close the case with a solution.

And now the solution will have to stay in the hands of the 4 researchers of the organ of police of Aruba, under the supervision of commissar Dolfi Richardson, who will have the responsibility to investigate new information about the case.
The case which has cost a lot of money, efforts and which has created much tension, for sure for someone who was in charge of the investigation, who still was not able to produce the image of what really happened to Natalee Holloway.

CRITISISM ABOUT THE ARUBAN POLICE.
Mr Hans Mos was not very clear if one day there will be a rapport of evaluation about how the investigation process had went.
For example there was strong criticism from the part of the family of Natalee Holloway about the the time it had taken on Aruba to arrest those who had been last with the young girl before she disappeared.
Here Mos was careful to give his opinion even more because he himself does not know the arguments of the authorities back then.
"I was not responsible for what happened back then, but I can tell that the decision they took was integer".

Without a doubt, Hans Mos was in an article in the Telegraaf addressing faults made by the old team.
Although Mos admits the Dutch paper is known for sensationalism, he denies to have ever said something like that about the former team. "There are things in the article I have never said", Mos says. "The only thing that I said is that some things did not end up in paper, and of which we thought could tell us more, so we went back and listened to the phone conversations and revised all the results of the old investigation. And based upon that, we were able to get more information", and once more Hans Mos does not give his opinion about the past situation, but used the popular Dutch figure of speech: 'Door de bomen het bos niet meer zien' to describe a psychological process that can occur inside an investigation team when there is a large quantity of information.
"And this is not to insult, it happens and ppl in Holland recognize it". In the past sense it is also necessary to criticize the work one has done. And to criticize your own work is something difficult according to Hans Mos, whom took the "journey" of becoming the help of a third person.

Of the form here can be determined if true was seen in one angle, if had to turned to all routes necessary, and if something went unnoticed.
"This whole journey has some doors open, and this happens in an investigation of the police it is good to have another who can throw in a new view, and can attribute attention to the aspects here".
And although the KLPD did take charge of the investigation second phase, it was important to include persons of the Aruban police who had knowledge of the case, And more had quality of Aruban personal who teamed up with the KLPD in the last investigation. The local analysts were of importance to give continuation of the investigation because their knowledge of the case was good.

Hans Mos does not understand the irritation which exists close to some members of the old investigation team, about the way the KLPD works. The Head Commissar has given the of two teams consisting team to do the investigation, for example the first journey, does not question the collaboration of the first team, but also a result of the circumstances, an example, the the way the new investigation team had to obtain permission to investigate the houses of the persons who were last with Natalee is due to the analyses of the dossier, new questions had arisen.
And had to get the warrant based upon new information for new permission. The Head Commissar does not appreciate the accusation "because the Dutch are involved in the case now, they are able achieve more, if an investigation is getting stuck it is only logical to go look for help to have others help search for the solution. This creates the impression that is bad for a solution in the case. "In the opinion of Mos, to police officers of heart and with the intention to look at a case to come to a conclusion, it does not matter how that can be achieved.

INVESTIGATION IN AMERICA COULD HAVE BEEN MORE, BUT WITHOUT OTHER RESULT.
And is the base of the questioner self, the big question, did they not have to investigate more profound the youngsters who were together with Natalee Holloway during her stay in Aruba.
It was talked about by some, and true the process in the USA was dirigated by the lawyers of the youngsters, is it the true is that the FBI inter mediated to be able to talk with a select group, but the questions were controlled by the approval of the lawyers.
Hans Mos is reacting by saying, he did not have the responsibility for that past process, and because he does not have enough information with the wish to talk to the young Americans to be able to give an opinion.
"The only thing I can tell is, in my work as a professional, one has to look into all options to be able to eliminate", according to Mos.
Even if it may not be necessary to say the way the option was handled and some do not understand, but one has to determine a certain direction of the investigation and be able to add on things.

If Mos believes it had been good if for example the investigation in American had been bigger (I have constatated this had not been done in the proper way) he thinks the process will not produce anything. "No, I do not have even a single indication now that the solution of the case is to be found in America". Mos has to confess, secure in his concept in spite of some sort of explanation the scenario of the Pubic Ministerie in this (based upon the investigation) is one more plausible. In other words, the Head Commissar remains certain at the three youngsters who were the last with Natalee Holloway.
(red. the conversation with Mos took place just when the lawyer of Satish and Deepak contradicted the suspicions of the OM, being that Deepak Kalpoe had admitted Natalee is dead. According to the lawyers the investigation simply had one internet conversation out of context).

ACTIONS WERE MOTIVE FOR SUSPICION.
Thus the Public Minister is convinced that they know in general what has happened to Natalee Holloway, but does not know the details, and also is not sure if a criminal act took place. "The only thing to tell is that we believe that these three persons have the key of her story." And for Hans Mos it is difficult to believe that an accident happened to Natalee simply because, based on, among other things a conversation of one of the three had 5 hours after the young disappeared girl was last seen being on tape.
This one of the three to another gives account of something had happened. If it was an accident, they did not call for help.
According to Mos, the main question to the trio was if they are responsible not one thought logical provided that in case of Natalee an accident had happened.
"The own actions of the trio has resulted in the suspicion of them. But again, that was not enough proof they had committed a crime".

AN INVESTIGATION THAT COSTED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
The investigation has costs millions of dollars, the investigation here with the usage of technologies cellphone conversations and the so called chats, if not for the famous F16's which searched for the possible burial place and the intervention of the Dutch Forensic Institute, Hans Mos says he did not do a calculation of the exact amount, but without including the salaries the investigation of Natalee Holloway costs somewhere between 5 and 10 million dollars.
And this is a dilemma, because although to have been invited to enforce a place in the investigation, you are left with no solution.
"But you have to ask how much is the life of a person worth".

INVESTIGATION TO FOLLOW
In the same time at the quarters of the Cuerpo Policial Aruban will stay working on the investigation and is responsible to complete the puzzle, according to Mos who draws a certain image.
"We cannot tell what who is doing, but the investigators are so fascinated with the case that even in their free time they come to review the case. Although the case is a cold case they say they will keep it alive."

[Observer]

My prayers go up for the Persistence crew and the work you are doing.

MIne also! I hope they are on the verge on making history and bringing Natalee home. She has to be out there! WHere else could she be besides the western side of Aruba a few miles out? Why make it more difficult for themselves back in June 2005? The Perps never dreamed a team like the Persistence would be out there ever looking for Natalee Holloway.

[Helen Back]

AN INVESTIGATION THAT COSTED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
The investigation has costs millions of dollars, the investigation here with the usage of technologies cellphone conversations and the so called chats, if not for the famous F16's which searched for the possible burial place and the intervention of the Dutch Forensic Institute, Hans Mos says he did not do a calculation of the exact amount, but without including the salaries the investigation of Natalee Holloway costs somewhere between 5 and 10 million dollars.
And this is a dilemma, because although to have been invited to enforce a place in the investigation, you are left with no solution.
"But you have to ask how much is the life of a person worth".

I would guess you're about to find out.

Goodnight monkeys.

[igsigs]

What Lazlo's translation shows ...  is MF editing out Mos comments about the evidence and strong suspicions against J2K - and editing out a Mos comment about zero indications that any answers would come from the U.S..

It's pathetic.

[igsigs]

And FWIW - i am nearly sure that MF is scubajap's daughter. Annalisa Klein/Gesterkamp (sp).

[Kat_Gram]

What did Mos say ? Lots of words, but I can discern nothing.

[igsigs]

What did Mos say ? Lots of words, but I can discern nothing.

Telling ALE/Aruba that solving the case is better than not. And to STFU and quit whining. IMO

[klaasend]

Igsigs - yes..MF is a real piece of work.  So..Scubajap's daughter huh?  Wonder if Scubajap sometimes uses MF's nick too?

[Kat_Gram]

What did Mos say ? Lots of words, but I can discern nothing.

Telling ALE/Aruba that solving the case is better than not. And to STFU and quit whining. IMO

TY. Why can't these Dutch ppl learn how to speak English !  :roll:Mos sounds like a political windbag. 

[Observer]

Igsigs - yes..MF is a real piece of work.  So..Scubajap's daughter huh?  Wonder if Scubajap sometimes uses MF's nick too?

That is interesting. I bet she got a good deal on Koens boat when they fled Aruba . I think the moment has passed and Scuba should explain why she made this statement.

(Talking about Lorenzo Van Rijn)
Has his own boat, I had mentioned him previously.
But, they did bring him in twice, searched his boat, his house, his car and no forensics.
This is a little more complicated than I can fully explain here, let's just say it has always bothered me why they didn't question him like they questioned Joran, and leave it at that for the moment, OK?
Posted by: scubajap | Oct 16, 2005 10:07:43 PM

[igsigs]

Igsigs - yes..MF is a real piece of work.  So..Scubajap's daughter huh?  Wonder if Scubajap sometimes uses MF's nick too?

I would not be surprised if she did - but probably not that often. MF more likely to know pap/dutch than mom.