Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[hotping]

You are so right!  I had never seen the boat before.  even  the area where he wrote 'shallow grave' is like where a name would be placed on a boat.  there also appears to be barnacles on the bottom, and the beginnings of a mast!!  Good observation. 

could it be that they are not raising high and hell water because they are searching too deep? THe question would be which boats are sunk close to shore? I believe there was a boat you can see from shore that is sunk. The boat in the picture looks like a cattamaroon(spelling?). Just thoughts

                                                                                                            Could someone else please go to the Ocean Search Aruba thread and read the postings for Dec 23  912AM by Blonde and Dec 25Th 758AM and see the connection that I think I see. Thanks

[Kat_Gram]

S Croes looks like he has lost weight.
In keeping with my Simple :
a.) Disposal done by the known suspects and ppl close to them
b.) Close to the area where they were ... the casinos .. just North of the Marriott 
c.) with what was at hand and readily available to them
We know that the three primary suspects are not part of some sofisticated organized crime operation. 
The lack of an investigation properly done is another story. That has to tie into Paulus Van Der Sloot and his former job working for Rudy Croes and Ben Vocking and his job as director of KIA. They have the connections those three punks do not to make all of this "unhappen ". The statements, etc, the NO EVIDENCE. 

[Magnolia]

Correct me if I am wrong,,but I was thinking.....
Joran was talking too much at school and Paulus picked him up.
They went to the police station and gave a statement at 12:30.
What did they do after that?
They had the afternoon to do their dirty work.
The sea disposal would have been much easier in the daylight.
Nobody would pay any attention to a small boat going out
in the afternoon.
The thing that makes me think the Gottenbos' boat was
Koen being so afraid and them moving away....but that does
not make it so.  Lorenzo could have gone out in the afternoon.

[Magnolia]

There was a catamaran that went down a few months ago.
It caught fire and had several tourist on it.
Several people on small boats in the area came to the rescue
and helped the tourist get to shore.  The boat belonged
to someone connected with the tourism bunch.
It was on the front page of the Aruban newspaper
and Renfro et al were all upset about it.

[Observer]

You are so right!  I had never seen the boat before.  even  the area where he wrote 'shallow grave' is like where a name would be placed on a boat.  there also appears to be barnacles on the bottom, and the beginnings of a mast!!  Good observation. 

could it be that they are not raising high and hell water because they are searching too deep? THe question would be which boats are sunk close to shore? I believe there was a boat you can see from shore that is sunk. The boat in the picture looks like a cattamaroon(spelling?). Just thoughts

                                                                                                            Could someone else please go to the Ocean Search Aruba thread and read the postings for Dec 23  912AM by Blonde and Dec 25Th 758AM and see the connection that I think I see. Thanks

If something comes to light about the man with the DARKEST hair, and his comments on his ‘high and mighty’ status.. might lead you to this area that I see.

I asked if they could tell us more about this person,I dont have a clue who it could be?? Anyone have a idea?

[Magnolia]

Isn't there a white boat half sticking out of the water
near what used to be the pier area at the Valero village?

[Observer]

Correct me if I am wrong,,but I was thinking.....
Joran was talking too much at school and Paulus picked him up.
They went to the police station and gave a statement at 12:30.
What did they do after that?
They had the afternoon to do their dirty work.
The sea disposal would have been much easier in the daylight.
Nobody would pay any attention to a small boat going out
in the afternoon.
The thing that makes me think the Gottenbos' boat was
Koen being so afraid and them moving away....but that does
not make it so.  Lorenzo could have gone out in the afternoon.

Hi Magnolia,As far as I am concerned they had lots of unaccounted for time after the 30th and the next few days. We know Natalee was probably dead within 5 hours so she probably was disposed of rather quickly. No sense in having a dead body laying around on the property. It's all speculation after that but she had to be buried temporarily or taken out to sea on the 30th. My guess would be PVDS got her off the property quickly on may30th and within a few days arranged her disposal by sea. Most likely with the help of Koen,SGC or Lorenzo in that order. MO I would like to hear more on why TJ Ward thinks PVDS had Colombian contacts that he may have called to take Natalee off the island.

The Gottenbo's and SGC would probably have the same launch spot but what about Lorenzo? If one of these 3 were involved they most likely just went a few miles out and did the dirty deed. No sense in risk getting caught or seen someplace suspicious with a dead body,it was probably done quickly and within 45 minutes or so from where they launched the boat. Over 300 feet of water would be sufficient,why risk going to far out if you were one of these 3 with a boat and it was May 30th to early june 2005?

[klaasend]

You are so right!  I had never seen the boat before.  even  the area where he wrote 'shallow grave' is like where a name would be placed on a boat.  there also appears to be barnacles on the bottom, and the beginnings of a mast!!  Good observation. 

could it be that they are not raising high and hell water because they are searching too deep? THe question would be which boats are sunk close to shore? I believe there was a boat you can see from shore that is sunk. The boat in the picture looks like a cattamaroon(spelling?). Just thoughts

                                                                                                            Could someone else please go to the Ocean Search Aruba thread and read the postings for Dec 23  912AM by Blonde and Dec 25Th 758AM and see the connection that I think I see. Thanks

I'm not finding it.  How many total comments are there in the section you're referring to?

[Observer]

As far as the Gottenbo's boat being the most likely vessel in disposing of Natalee I agree. What is their part in all of this? Why would Koen hide when Natalee's family drove by his house? Why would Michael Dompig tell Dave that PVDS might have used that boat to dispose of NH? We heard about how nervous koen was and Art Wood begging for him to be questioned about the boat but never was. He also lied about playing tennis with Joran on May 30th why would he lie about that?

From my recollection I believe his Father didn't want him to be questioned again and spoke for him or something. One of the people in the OM I thought even quit over this issue? We also know that Sander said his cell phone was stolen the day Natalee went missing. We know since then they sold there House,Boat and Business and fled to Georgia. While the two boys are most likely in holland.

[Observer]

You are so right!  I had never seen the boat before.  even  the area where he wrote 'shallow grave' is like where a name would be placed on a boat.  there also appears to be barnacles on the bottom, and the beginnings of a mast!!  Good observation. 

could it be that they are not raising high and hell water because they are searching too deep? THe question would be which boats are sunk close to shore? I believe there was a boat you can see from shore that is sunk. The boat in the picture looks like a cattamaroon(spelling?). Just thoughts

                                                                                                            Could someone else please go to the Ocean Search Aruba thread and read the postings for Dec 23  912AM by Blonde and Dec 25Th 758AM and see the connection that I think I see. Thanks

I'm not finding it.  How many total comments are there in the section you're referring to?

Is this what you are talking about?

Please send this info, this was sent to me by a girl who says she can see where Natalee is I'm just passing this on





 I am not one to jump into information like this so fast.  The boat I see is a ‘sail boat,’ probable sunk just within the last few years.

Off a small land area that is swimmable to a main shore but far.  Almost private property if that is possible in the ocean.

Finding her will not happen, finding pieces might I am sorry if that is too realistic,.

.  Is she missing a bag or purse or back pack, luggage, bigger then smaller, that you will find asap.

Good luck, I feel nothing but compassion and love for the family.

 

If something comes to light about the man with the DARKEST hair, and his comments on his ‘high and mighty’ status.. might lead you to this area that I see.

I am not going to put any more into this unless you ask

[Observer]

I just found this email, can you pass it on , thanks  carpe
 
 I met a girl tonight who see's dead people her name is Rebecca she help the FBI and police find missing people.
She calls her self spiritaul contact.
I told her that I'm looking for Natalee she started talking fast and sweeting.
She said she was in a black bag near that boat near an island with nine trees two were different
She is caught up in a back and forth thing near a sunk boat  the boat is under the water and part of it you can see it's white .
 

[hotping]

You are so right!  I had never seen the boat before.  even  the area where he wrote 'shallow grave' is like where a name would be placed on a boat.  there also appears to be barnacles on the bottom, and the beginnings of a mast!!  Good observation. 

could it be that they are not raising high and hell water because they are searching too deep? THe question would be which boats are sunk close to shore? I believe there was a boat you can see from shore that is sunk. The boat in the picture looks like a cattamaroon(spelling?). Just thoughts

                                                                                                            Could someone else please go to the Ocean Search Aruba thread and read the postings for Dec 23  912AM by Blonde and Dec 25Th 758AM and see the connection that I think I see. Thanks

I'm not finding it.  How many total comments are there in the section you're referring to?

Its pg 2 of the Ocean Search Aruba Dec 2007...I just think that its a strange coincidence that different people think She is near a sunken boat.....MO

[Lala'sMom]

Would you ask a friend of your son's to loan you a boat no questions asked?  Would you go to a friend and tell them you need to borrow their boat...when you probably have never borrowed their boat before?  If your son had used a friend's boat and then told you about it all, would you have the ability to cover it up and keep all involved from talking? How would you do that?  How would you keep the father of the friend from talking?  How would you keep Joran's friends quiet?  How would you stop the snowball effect that would inevitably take place if you could not stop everyone from talking?   Who has the power to make this happen?  I don't suppose I am looking for answers to these questions, instead I am just thinking out loud. 

[hotping]

You are so right!  I had never seen the boat before.  even  the area where he wrote 'shallow grave' is like where a name would be placed on a boat.  there also appears to be barnacles on the bottom, and the beginnings of a mast!!  Good observation. 

could it be that they are not raising high and hell water because they are searching too deep? THe question would be which boats are sunk close to shore? I believe there was a boat you can see from shore that is sunk. The boat in the picture looks like a cattamaroon(spelling?). Just thoughts

                                                                                                            Could someone else please go to the Ocean Search Aruba thread and read the postings for Dec 23  912AM by Blonde and Dec 25Th 758AM and see the connection that I think I see. Thanks

I'm not finding it.  How many total comments are there in the section you're referring to?

Its pg 2 of the Ocean Search Aruba Dec 2007...I just think that its a strange coincidence that different people think She is near a sunken boat.....MO

Yes...That is it the emails about Natalee being near a sunken boat!

[Observer]

Thinking out loud also. If you were PVDS and a girl was raped and murdered by your son what would you do? Would you be arranging her body to be disposed of in the ocean immediately the first day? That means getting others involved because you dont have a boat and immediately deciding no one can ever find her. Or would you bury her somewhere on land so you can get her away from your property,clean up,get rid of evidence and think about the situation?

All I know is when the Family arrived he had to know they would be scouring the island looking for Natalee. With damning evidence on her body he had to make sure no one would find her. They live on a tiny island surrounded by water. She has to be out there! The whole cremation thing is just so evil,outrageous and hard to believe. Unless it was someone far more powerful than PVDS who arranged burial.IMO

[Magnolia]

As far as the Gottenbo's boat being the most likely vessel in disposing of Natalee I agree. What is their part in all of this? Why would Koen hide when Natalee's family drove by his house? Why would Michael Dompig tell Dave that PVDS might have used that boat to dispose of NH? We heard about how nervous koen was and Art Wood begging for him to be questioned about the boat but never was. He also lied about playing tennis with Joran on May 30th why would he lie about that?

From my recollection I believe his Father didn't want him to be questioned again and spoke for him or something. One of the people in the OM I thought even quit over this issue? We also know that Sander said his cell phone was stolen the day Natalee went missing. We know since then they sold there House,Boat and Business and fled to Georgia. While the two boys are most likely in holland.

I think it was the Flanigan woman who quit her job as an assistant prosecutor.
The Gottenbos' boat has been mentioned repeatedly and their actions are more
than suspicious.
Rob said that ALE searched Lorenzo's boat.  How'd they get a search warrant?

[JA]

Would you ask a friend of your son's to loan you a boat no questions asked?  Would you go to a friend and tell them you need to borrow their boat...when you probably have never borrowed their boat before?  If your son had used a friend's boat and then told you about it all, would you have the ability to cover it up and keep all involved from talking? How would you do that?  How would you keep the father of the friend from talking?  How would you keep Joran's friends quiet?  How would you stop the snowball effect that would inevitably take place if you could not stop everyone from talking?   Who has the power to make this happen?  I don't suppose I am looking for answers to these questions, instead I am just thinking out loud. 

I agree Lala'sMOm.  It is not like you'd call up at wee hours in the morning or anytime during the day and ask to borrow a boat if you hadn't before.  I also doubt you'd confine in the owner of the boat by telling them you had a body or anything to bury at sea.  If you did borrow the boat, and even at the time you thought it was strange but let the person borrow the boat, you'd think when it became public that Nat was missing, and the JVD had something to do with it, you'd put two and two together.  Somewhere you'd say something to someone like, " I'm I little nervous, Paulus borowed my boat the day after that girl went missing.  Do you think I should say something?"


You are right, someone had the power to keep them quiet.  Unless Joran asked to go out on the boat with Koen or Sander, and then Paulus showed up.  Koen and Sander stupidly agreed to help or let them borrow the boat for this purpose.  When Mr. G got wind of what maybe went down, he knew he had to protect his sons, and didn't want them being questioned.  Someone let him know that if word got out about the use of the boat then it wouldn't be well with his sons, or a blackmail of some business transaction he did in the past.

There has to be more.  If the sentence is so minimum for manslaughter then I can only imagine how short it would be if you "unknowingly" lent your boat to someone for this purpose.  Or would their be any sentence at all?

More has to have been said in the general sector of the population.  How do they keep everything so hush, hush?

[JA]

Thinking out loud also. If you were PVDS and a girl was raped and murdered by your son what would you do? Would you be arranging her body to be disposed of in the ocean immediately the first day? That means getting others involved because you dont have a boat and immediately deciding no one can ever find her. Or would you bury her somewhere on land so you can get her away from your property,clean up,get rid of evidence and think about the situation?

All I know is when the Family arrived he had to know they would be scouring the island looking for Natalee. With damning evidence on her body he had to make sure no one would find her. They live on a tiny island surrounded by water. She has to be out there! The whole cremation thing is just so evil,outrageous and hard to believe. Unless it was someone far more powerful than PVDS who arranged burial.IMO

This is exactly why I don't think her remains would ever be on the Sloot property.  People have talked about her being buried in concrete by their pool or in their old well.  I would think they would want to be distanced from her body, so if for some reason she was located before they disposed of her, they would still have a chance to blame it on someone else.  If she was on their property then it would be a little harder to put the blame elsewhere.  I think within the first 48 hours she could have been ont he Sloot property, but once beth was down there and doing her own investigating they knew she had to go.  Plus, unfortunately, I have smelled a dead composing body.  There is no way in that heat that they'd have her on their property for long.

[Lala'sMom]

How did Rob know Lorenzo's boat was searched? Why would they search his boat and not every other boat on the island?

[JA]

Paulus knows the less people involved the better.  This is why I almost agree with those that have the theory that Deepak and Satish know what happened to her, but they don't know exactly where her remains are.  Paulus I'm sure knows many criminals in his line of work ( Yeah ,the ones hired by the gov't too.) and would know which ones if needed he could call in for a favor.