Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[JA]

At one time I thought maybe they had cremated her, because Pauls was so convinced that there would be no body.  But, why would they then be screaming that the Persistence might plant evidence, or Joran's lawyer wanted to make sure if anything was found by the Persistence it could be used?  They'd just laugh that the Persistence was going to all this trouble knowing that nothing would turn up.

[JA]

At one time I thought maybe they had cremated her, because Pauls was so convinced that there would be no body.  But, why would they then be screaming that the Persistence might plant evidence, or Joran's lawyer wanted to make sure if anything was found by the Persistence it not could be used?  They'd just laugh that the Persistence was going to all this trouble knowing that nothing would turn up.

OOPs!

[Observer]

I think it was the Flanigan woman who quit her job as an assistant prosecutor.
The Gottenbos' boat has been mentioned repeatedly and their actions are more
than suspicious.
Rob said that ALE searched Lorenzo's boat.  How'd they get a search warrant?

Something led them to lorenzo like a tip over the phone or one of the suspects/witnesses and he became a person of interst in the first week MO. From everything that I have read they searched his boat and his mothers house and no forensics were done. Not a clue why they were at her house when he lives in Jaraweg.

They can get search warrants anytime they want and quickly like what we saw with the two security guards. We saw in beths book that the Vader character also said his boat was searched and this was just a few days after NH dissapeared. They could have just asked to look at it,since no forensics were even taken it wasnt a big deal. The Vader guy was prolly a false lead and could have been false tips provided by julia and anita to throw the investigation on a goose chase. We saw how Dennis Jacobs reacted when Beth brought Vader to Dennis Jacobs. The dirty cop probably already searched his boat and knew all about Vader Van Loen and that he wasnt involved. He didn't say squat because he knew that he was a decoy for lorenzo.IMO

[Observer]

How did Rob know Lorenzo's boat was searched? Why would they search his boat and not every other boat on the island?

Not sure how Rob knew but Scubajap,Dolores and a few others from Aruba said they searched his boat.

Sounds like they searched Lorenzo's and Van Voons boat but made no attempt on searching the Gottenbo's boat,at least not forensicly? I wonder if they were cleaning the boat with bleach the day the Family saw Koen and his Father cleaning it?

[Lala'sMom]

I remember Jossy saying that Deepak always became nervous when an ocean search was mentioned.  Surely, he knew she was out deep enough to not be found under normal conditions.  Wonder how many times he's checked in here to see what is going on with the Persistence...I don't think he ever thought about a ship that size.

I also can't see the Gottenbos doing Paulus any favors...I know they say blood is thicker than water but I think that only applies to extremely close relatives.  I know it was rumored they were related, but I don't think Pappa G would lie and get involved in this situation unless there was good reason.  Either he was involved in this elder thing and it's an unwritten code of some kind to help each other or his own sons were so deep in it that he had no choice. 

I admit Shango is intriging, but let's be realistic...it is only an account of what Shango thinks was the standard procedure on the island.  It could be a total fabrication of thoughts pieced together from reading the FP comments up to that point.  Don't believe me?  Then begin at the beginning and you will understand what I mean.  If you don't know anything about Simian or Shango...you can still recognize that you have already read all of it before Shango or Simian showed up by other posters....Aruban posters in fact.

I know not everyone has spent the amount of time I have reading the riddles and following up on various aspects of the stories.  But as Mum mentioned earlier...Shango might be dead.  I have seen all the various theories about Shango...nothing fits precisely into a nice little box where you can tie a ribbon on and give it away as fact. One thing I will say...if Shango is still out there...I am sure he reads here...he has to...we continuously talk about him...how could his ego deny it.  Shango if you are still alive email me cindaol@yahoo.com. Prove to me you exist!!

Simian....I know you are still out there...why won't you speak up?  You don't have to tell anyone but me.  I want some answers.  If you really care anything about Aruba and want to see this nightmare come to an end...start talking to us about the facts.  Tell us what you know.  You both can post on the FP of SM and no one will be able to track you or find you...just give us the info we seek.  One of the two of you most likely know where Natalee is....time to start talking. 

And for all you crazies out there...don't bother trying to impersonate them...I can tell who is real and who is fake...I have my ways.  Who's boat was it?  Who helped Paulus?   How many was it? How far out did they go?  Who needed an alibi?  Why hasn't anyone broken in this case? 

Can you honestly live with yourself the rest of your life knowing that there is someone's child that can't come home to rest?  What if it were your daughter or sister or mother?  Do you have a conscience?  I don't know what else to do but keep begging for someone to talk.  Think of what your own mother and father would feel if this had been you?  Can you live with that for the rest of your life and then take it all to your grave?  I don't think I could.

Okay, rant over.  Sorry, I got carried away.

[Lala'sMom]

How did Rob know Lorenzo's boat was searched? Why would they search his boat and not every other boat on the island?

Not sure how Rob knew but Scubajap,Dolores and a few others from Aruba said they searched his boat.

Sounds like they searched Lorenzo's and Van Voons boat but made no attempt on searching the Gottenbo's boat,at least not forensicly? I wonder if they were cleaning the boat with bleach the day the Family saw Koen and his Father cleaning it?

When did the family see Koen cleaning the boat?  I missed that one.

[Observer]

Strange that there was 2 drug dealers,both dutch,both rumored to be related to the sloots and both had their boats searched.

[Observer]

How did Rob know Lorenzo's boat was searched? Why would they search his boat and not every other boat on the island?

When did the family see Koen cleaning the boat?  I missed that one.

I forget who it was,maybee Dave or Jug? He said when he drove by the Gottenbo's home they were inside of the boat cleaning it or something like that. I think he said when he drove by again,koen saw them and ducked/hid under something. I have no idea what the date was when this happened. Someone here probably knows this story better than me 

[texasmom]

How did Rob know Lorenzo's boat was searched? Why would they search his boat and not every other boat on the island?

Not sure how Rob knew but Scubajap,Dolores and a few others from Aruba said they searched his boat.

Sounds like they searched Lorenzo's and Van Voons boat but made no attempt on searching the Gottenbo's boat,at least not forensicly? I wonder if they were cleaning the boat with bleach the day the Family saw Koen and his Father cleaning it?

When did the family see Koen cleaning the boat?  I missed that one.

In Dave's book (page 177) he and Art Wood drove by and saw Koen and his father "working on" the boat.  This is the same day that when they drove by slowly again Koen was walking into the living room and when he saw them barrel-rolled and hid behind the couch.

[Magnolia]

Thinking out loud also. If you were PVDS and a girl was raped and murdered by your son what would you do? Would you be arranging her body to be disposed of in the ocean immediately the first day? That means getting others involved because you dont have a boat and immediately deciding no one can ever find her. Or would you bury her somewhere on land so you can get her away from your property,clean up,get rid of evidence and think about the situation?

All I know is when the Family arrived he had to know they would be scouring the island looking for Natalee. With damning evidence on her body he had to make sure no one would find her. They live on a tiny island surrounded by water. She has to be out there! The whole cremation thing is just so evil,outrageous and hard to believe. Unless it was someone far more powerful than PVDS who arranged burial.IMO

If I had lived on a very small island for as many years as Paulus, I would know that
the only safe place to dispose of a body would be the deep waters of the ocean.
Now depending on whether the rumors of Lorenzo being his son are true....
I would have hidden the body away for a few hours until I could get my wits about me,
then contacted Lorenzo and told him that Joran had gotten himself in a hell of a mess.
IMO Lorenzo would have known exactly what to do and loved doing it if he is as
nutty as everyone says.

[Observer]

When did the family see Koen cleaning the boat?  I missed that one.

In Dave's book (page 177) he and Art Wood drove by and saw Koen and his father "working on" the boat.  This is the same day that when they drove by slowly again Koen was walking into the living room and when he saw them barrel-rolled and hid behind the couch.

Thx TM Right,how could I forget about koen doing a barrel-roll!! 

[yapperz1]

Hiya Monkeys

I know Lorenzo is a bad word here but I found this after the discussion about whether he was related to VDS or not:

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=06&post_day=18

<snip>
Dana:

Lorenzo van Rijn, has several homes one was searched the other not. What can you tell us about this guy?

JossY

I do know what our reporters have been able to find, he's a half brother of Joran. He has a boat, he lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned ... but ppl mention his name quite often in regard to this case.
 

[bleachedblack]

Yapperz I for one remember hearing that fact from very very early in the case, before the "mis-information"  even began. I believe I see a familial resemblance between LVR PVDS and JVDS.

[Kat_Gram]

If you were PVDS, with a son that you doted on and he came to you and told you that :
He met a girl, a wild American girl who had been drinking heavy and doing drugs and while you were with her, she just expired, probably from the drink and the drugs she had been consuming way before she ran into you and you had panicked and just left her under some brush on the beach and said: What should you do ?
And your Dad said :Who knows about this ? And the answer was : Deepak and Satish, it wasn't like a date, it was just one of THOSE girls.
And you three had been too panicked to call the police or call 911 at the time,
so how could you now.
You Dad says, get rid of her, No body , No case, Case closed.
..
Your Dad thinks, I will do anything for my son, the sun shines out of his azz.
And your Mother says : My son is a Delicious Sporter, he did nothing wrong, except he left a girl at the beach.

[Tamikosmom]

Hiya Monkeys

I know Lorenzo is a bad word here but I found this after the discussion about whether he was related to VDS or not:

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=06&post_day=18

<snip>
Dana:

Lorenzo van Rijn, has several homes one was searched the other not. What can you tell us about this guy?

JossY

I do know what our reporters have been able to find, he's a half brother of Joran. He has a boat, he lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned ... but ppl mention his name quite often in regard to this case.
 

Then five days later Jossy backtracked ... I wonder why?

Janet

++++++++++++++


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
June 18, 2007

MANSUR:  I do know what our reporters have been able to find, he's a half brother of Joran. He has a boat. He lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned, but people mention his name quite often in regard to this case.
 

Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER SHOW
June 23, 2007

MANSUR:  You know, as far as we know, no, we haven't been able to make that kind of a link or connection whatsoever with regard to the case. I mean the rumours are more than rumours in Aruba that they are half brothers and they have the same appearance, they have the same height, same (inaudible), there are many reasons to believe that but it has not been confirmed by themselves, the two players themselves or anyone else in the family, no

[greeneyedlady]

Yapperz I for one remember hearing that fact from very very early in the case, before the "mis-information"  even began. I believe I see a familial resemblance between LVR PVDS and JVDS.

bleached. glad I'm not the only one who sees the family resemblance between those 3.

[texasmom]

Has anyone determined if the Gottenbos' and Vandersloots are related?  I read somewhere last night that the boys were Joran's cousins from Anita's side of the family. 

[klaasend]

Hiya Monkeys

I know Lorenzo is a bad word here but I found this after the discussion about whether he was related to VDS or not:

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=06&post_day=18

<snip>
Dana:

Lorenzo van Rijn, has several homes one was searched the other not. What can you tell us about this guy?

JossY

I do know what our reporters have been able to find, he's a half brother of Joran. He has a boat, he lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned ... but ppl mention his name quite often in regard to this case.
 

Then five days later Jossy backtracked ... I wonder why?

Janet

++++++++++++++


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
June 18, 2007

MANSUR:  I do know what our reporters have been able to find, he's a half brother of Joran. He has a boat. He lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned, but people mention his name quite often in regard to this case.
 

Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER SHOW
June 23, 2007

MANSUR:  You know, as far as we know, no, we haven't been able to make that kind of a link or connection whatsoever with regard to the case. I mean the rumours are more than rumours in Aruba that they are half brothers and they have the same appearance, they have the same height, same (inaudible), there are many reasons to believe that but it has not been confirmed by themselves, the two players themselves or anyone else in the family, no

Because I believe Jossy was answering regarding the drug bust.  I think Jossy was saying Lorenzo's arrest in the drug bust had nothing to do with the NH case.

[bleachedblack]

Hiya Monkeys

I know Lorenzo is a bad word here but I found this after the discussion about whether he was related to VDS or not:

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=06&post_day=18

<snip>
Dana:

Lorenzo van Rijn, has several homes one was searched the other not. What can you tell us about this guy?

JossY

I do know what our reporters have been able to find, he's a half brother of Joran. He has a boat, he lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned ... but ppl mention his name quite often in regard to this case.
 

Then five days later Jossy backtracked ... I wonder why?

Janet

++++++++++++++


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
June 18, 2007

MANSUR:  I do know what our reporters have been able to find, he's a half brother of Joran. He has a boat. He lives in a secluded section of the island, very close to Joran. I don't know if he was questioned, but people mention his name quite often in regard to this case.
 

Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER SHOW
June 23, 2007

MANSUR:  You know, as far as we know, no, we haven't been able to make that kind of a link or connection whatsoever with regard to the case. I mean the rumours are more than rumours in Aruba that they are half brothers and they have the same appearance, they have the same height, same (inaudible), there are many reasons to believe that but it has not been confirmed by themselves, the two players themselves or anyone else in the family, no

Threat of lawsuit by PVDS? ...would be my guess.

[Observer]

Hi Yap,

He's a 28 year old guy and I do not think he would be close to Joran unless he was related or the families were close in some way. Now it just comes down to is he involved and in what way? If he was involved in the disposal then did he use his boat or did he involve his colombian contacts that TJ talked about PVDS having?

ON THE MORNING OF MAY 30, 2005 ... THERE IS A RUMORED 6:30 AM CALL FROM ONE OF THE SUSPECTS CELL IN THE SANTA LUCIA AREA OF THE ISLAND AND ... JORAN IS ALLEGEDLY PICKED UP BY THE SCHOOL BUS NEAR THE HOME OF LORENZO VAN RIJN. TJ Ward had told us that Lorenzo had armed Colombian guards at his house when he went to talk to him.

Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER SHOW
June 23, 2007

MANSUR:  You know, as far as we know, no, we haven't been able to make that kind of a link or connection whatsoever with regard to the case. I mean the rumours are more than rumours in Aruba that they are half brothers and they have the same appearance, they have the same height, same (inaudible), there are many reasons to believe that but it has not been confirmed by themselves, the two players themselves or anyone else in the family, no
----------------------------------
Dave Holloway
Question and Answer Chat - BFN
January 23, 2006

14. Why was the school bus driver called the next morning and told to pick up Joran at Lorenzo's house?
 
DAVE: Joran was allegedly dropped off at a bus stop on the main highway. The bus driver had not made it there yet and saved Paulus about 30 minutes. Lorenzo's house was nearby.
http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=2256.0
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