Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[igsigs]

Yeah Kat, Mos is a windbag. Over and over and over he acts surprised at the lack of cooperation and motivation amongst the powers-that-be on Aruba. Clue 1 that the KLPD should have cast a wider net in their investigation.

[klaasend]

Igsigs - yes..MF is a real piece of work.  So..Scubajap's daughter huh?  Wonder if Scubajap sometimes uses MF's nick too?

That is interesting. I bet she got a good deal on Koens boat when they fled Aruba . I think the moment has passed and Scuba should explain why she made this statement.

(Talking about Lorenzo Van Rijn)
Has his own boat, I had mentioned him previously.
But, they did bring him in twice, searched his boat, his house, his car and no forensics.
This is a little more complicated than I can fully explain here, let's just say it has always bothered me why they didn't question him like they questioned Joran, and leave it at that for the moment, OK?
Posted by: scubajap | Oct 16, 2005 10:07:43 PM

It's bothered me too 

[klaasend]

GOODNIGHT ALL - tomorrow I'll be working and lurking again so don't send out the search team looking for me, ok? 

[Observer]

Yeah Kat, Mos is a windbag. Over and over and over he acts surprised at the lack of cooperation and motivation amongst the powers-that-be on Aruba. Clue 1 that the KLPD should have cast a wider net in their investigation.

Mos=FOS is exactly right. They waited 10 days to make the arrest,17 days to issue a warrant that they changed at the last seconds to just Jorans room,blood that turned into chocolate and the confession and NH being confirmed dead that never happened. Not to mention PVDS best friend leading the Investigation. Even Judge Wit said last week that Dompig obstructed Justice and didnt want them to search the rest of the VDS property.  And that one paragraph is all Mos has to say about criticism of the police force.. 

[Observer]

GOODNIGHT ALL - tomorrow I'll be working and lurking again so don't send out the search team looking for me, ok? 

I think we may need to send one out for Rob 

Night!

[Observer]

Hey Kyle! Crank up Sweet Home Alabama next time you feel like you may need a little  luck It is really about time something goes this girls way. Godspeed

[texasmom]

Hey Kyle! Crank up Sweet Home Alabama next time you feel like you may need a little  luck It is really about time something goes this girls way. Godspeed

amen to that *******!
          

Edited to add
Sweet Home Alabama 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=huLklsj_5HI

[texasmom]

thanks *******!

[MumInOhio]

IIRC it was posted that Hiram lived next door to Posner or really close. There were posts about 'what did you see through the window'. Do I have the right guy? May have been Tony that posted this, though I do recall Kawish was asked about him.

[Buckeye]

IIRC it was posted that Hiram lived next door to Posner or really close. There were posts about 'what did you see through the window'. Do I have the right guy? May have been Tony that posted this, though I do recall Kawish was asked about him.

Mum

Just stopped in to answer.  IIRC, Florida was involved in posting about the window, etc.  At times, Florida posted many theories in a way to make them sound like fact. I'm not sure it was.

Kawish had discussed a picture of Hiram and Aline at a possible high class VIP club.  He did say something about Hiram seeing her after that night but I think he was discussing a comment from another board.

[MumInOhio]

IIRC it was posted that Hiram lived next door to Posner or really close. There were posts about 'what did you see through the window'. Do I have the right guy? May have been Tony that posted this, though I do recall Kawish was asked about him.

Mum

Just stopped in to answer.  IIRC, Florida was involved in posting about the window, etc.  At times, Florida posted many theories in a way to make them sound like fact. I'm not sure it was.

Kawish had discussed a picture of Hiram and Aline at a possible high class VIP club.  He did say something about Hiram seeing her after that night but I think he was discussing a comment from another board.

Thanks Buckeye...was it you discussing the blood on the mattress a couple of months ago. Some posters did a lot of research and I believe it was decided that ALE could not have distinguished human or dog blood without forensics. TIA

[Buckeye]

Mum

Not me.  Very early in the case, some of us did research regarding blood.  There was an interesting forensic study, involving, I believe a body in a well.  Long story, short:  dog's blood was used to throw off the scent of the dogs.  Interesting that there are so many strays on Aruba.  Would be pretty easy to lure a stray and then kill him......Guess that would pertain to dogs and people....on that island.

[Nut44x4]

Those people in those pool party pictures look like Drag Queens.

I have seen photos of the same people from the Karma Lounge photo site......ummmmm Magic 96.5 photo gallery. Pretty scary.

[msmarple]

http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=13&Itemid=30

Link is to Diario's Local news section.


man apparently tries to attack a tourist couple at high rise hotel. No video image captured.

Turistanan a core huy di homber cu supuesto mal intencion       
Friday, 04 January 2008 

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Riba e segundo dia di aña, Central di Polis a dirigi patruya di Strandpolitie na un Highrise Hotel relaciona cu un caso di atraco.

Tabata 12’or di merdia cu e caso a worde reporta, y pesey a dirigi personal di Strandpolitie na e hotel en cuestion.

Na yegada agentenan a papia cu e señora di inicialnan C.P. naci na Brasil di 26 aña. Segun declaracion, cu alrededor di 1’or y pico di madruga, e tabata cu su partner direccion di e hotel. Na dado momento un homber a acerca nan y ta yega mas cerca pa a gara nan.

Pero tanto e denunciante y su partner masculino tumando na cuenta di e intencion di e individuo, no solamente a spanta pero nan a core bay direccion di e hotel.

Ta ora nan a core drenta lobby y bay den Lift, nan a wak atras e supuesto atracador a desaparece.
A base di e informe suministra na e personal di Strandpolitie a revisa e video ya cu tin camera sofistica instala, y esaki a capta loke ta move den vecindario di e hotel.

Pero segun informe, no tabatin imagen di e sucedido, tampoco di coremento. Tog e caso tin debido atencion di autoridad concerni.

Online Pap translation:

turistanan owing to core huy of man cu supuesto bad intencion
friday, 04 january 2008

oranjestad (aan): on the second day of year, central of police owing to dirigi patrol of strandpolitie at one highrise hotel relaciona cu one caso of atraco.

was 12’or of afternoon cu the caso owing to worde reporta, y pesey owing to dirigi personal of strandpolitie at the hotel provided that cuestion.

at arrival agentenan owing to talk cu the madam of inicialnan c.p. naci at brasil of 26 year. according declaracion, cu alrededor of 1’or y pico of madruga, the was cu his partner direccion of the hotel. at dado instant one man owing to acerca they y is arrive more close for owing to grab they.

but tanto the denunciante y his partner masculino tumando at cuenta of the intencion of the individual, not only owing to spanta but they owing to core bay direccion of the hotel.

is hour they owing to core enter lobby y bay in lift, they owing to look at behind the supuesto atracador owing to desaparece.
owing to base of the informe suministra at the personal of strandpolitie owing to revisa the video already cu have camera sofistica instala, y this owing to capta thing is actuate in vecindario of the hotel.

but according informe, not had imagen of the sucedido, niether of coremento. tog the caso have debido atencion of autoridad concerni.

* * *
"Tommy" hit man "W." in the head with a with beer bottle; left him bleeding.

Homber tur na sanger a rechaza tur yudanza di autoridad       
Friday, 04 January 2008 

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Tabata laat den oranan di marduga, un homber conocido di polis, esta un tal B. a duna tip na Polis, indicando cu patras di un supermercado tin un homber benta tur na sanger.

Polis a tuma e tip na serio y a dicidi di bay tira un bista y enberdad nan a topa cu e homber di fam W. cu su cabez cubri cu sanger.

Segun W. cu algun choller a maltrate, un di e anti-socialnan aki ta un tal “Tommy”. E tal Tommy a dal e cu un boter cervez den cabez.

Ademas e victima a bisa polis, cu e no tin mester di yudanza, ni di polis y tampoco servicio di ambulans.

Na diferente ocasion, polis a puntra y ofrece e compay aki tur golpia pa yude , cada vez e tabata nenga e oferta.

Na dado momento riba su propio forza, W. a lanta para riba su pianan y a cana direccion Village.
Patruya a sigui tras di W., pa averigua kico ta su intencion.

Na un cas den Village pa ser exacto Caya Bonaire, el a drenta un parcela y asina tambe el a yega cas sano y salvo.

Mientras tanto polis despues a tira un bista den vecindario si acaso nan por localiza e tal “Tommy” pero sin ningun resultado.

Online Pap translation:

man all at blood owing to rechaza all yudanza of autoridad
friday, 04 january 2008

oranjestad (aan): was late in oranan of marduga, one man conocido of police, esta one such b. owing to give tip at police, indicando cu behind one supermercado have one man throw all at blood.

police did take the tip at earnest y owing to dicidi of bay throw one view y enberdad they owing to come across cu he of surname w. cu his cabez cubri cu blood.

according w. cu some choller owing to maltrate, one of the anti-socialnan here is one such “tommy”. the such tommy owing to strike the cu one boter cervez in cabez.

besides the victima owing to tell police, cu the not have have to of yudanza, neither of police y niether servicio of ambulance.

at various ocasion, police owing to ask about y ofrece the compay here all golpia for yude, cada vez the was deny the oferta.

at dado instant on his own forza, w. owing to arise stop on his pianan y owing to march direccion village. patrol owing to follow behind w., for averigua kico is his intencion.

at one cas in village for being exact caya bonaire, past owing to enter one parcela y so also past owing to arrive cas sano y salvo.

all the time police after owing to throw one view in vecindario if acaso they can localiza the such “tommy” but without none result.

* * *

[Dayhiker]

AN INVESTIGATION THAT COSTED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
The investigation has costs millions of dollars, the investigation here with the usage of technologies cellphone conversations and the so called chats, if not for the famous F16's which searched for the possible burial place and the intervention of the Dutch Forensic Institute, Hans Mos says he did not do a calculation of the exact amount, but without including the salaries the investigation of Natalee Holloway costs somewhere between 5 and 10 million dollars.
And this is a dilemma, because although to have been invited to enforce a place in the investigation, you are left with no solution.
"But you have to ask how much is the life of a person worth".

I would guess you're about to find out.

Goodnight monkeys.

10 million dollars is just a drop in the bucket to what Aruba has lost in tourism dollars.

What is your reputation and economy worth in dollars, Aruba?

What is your reputation for integrity, or lack thereof, worth, Holland?

10 million dollars is cheap. It is very clear they haven't spent enough yet.

[LilPuma]

i heard Anna was looking for me..

klass. please send her my email address ---pick whatever one you want 

unless that is. if she is mad at me, an if she is,tell her you have not seen me

thank you for your cooperation 

Robots, Letterman was speaking of Robots last night.  You've made the big time. 

Prayers for Tim and the crew of the Persistance. 

[LilPuma]

It would have cost much less to do the investigation correctly in those first few days than to try to put on a show for an international audience and then try to uncover what that show covered later on.  And Arubans went along with blaming Beth and the U.S. media and even Natalee.  Aruba has made its own bed. 

[private eye]

This is from the link posted on pg 1. It seems as though the laws have a means to deal with the silence of the boys, unless they are exempt since they were suspects instead of witnesses.

Article 15

124. The Code of Criminal Procedure of the Netherlands Antilles contains (arts. 301-307) rules for the judgment of evidence.


125. Under Netherlands Antillean criminal procedure, not all types of evidence are admissible, since the law exhaustively lists those which are (the judge's own observations, statements made by the suspect, witnesses and experts, and written evidence), while it excludes statements made by fellow suspects and declares uncorroborated statements made by the suspect or a single witness to be insufficient. In Netherlands Antillean criminal case law the doctrine of unlawfully obtained evidence, obtained by a breach of statutory provisions or in a way which conflicts with unwritten procedural law, has been developed. Such evidence may not be used to prove a charge. It is the general opinion both in legal practice and doctrine that the court shall not use or give any weight to evidence illegally obtained. Failure to observe the above regulations leads to the evidence thus acquired being declared inadmissible.


126. Witnesses are in principle obliged to make a statement unless they can invoke a statutory exemption. The obligation is compelling: witnesses at a hearing under oath and, at the request of the suspect or upon application by the Public Prosecution Office, the courts have the power to remand in custody witnesses who without legitimate grounds refuse to answer the questions put to them or to take the oath (or, in the case of non-believers, make the affirmation), provided this is urgently necessary in the interests of the inquiry.


127. The court may order an immediate criminal investigation if a witness is suspected of having committed perjury. In no instance is it permissible to subject witnesses to any coercive measures other than those described above.

[private eye]

Article 16

128. The Netherlands Antilles will choose to formulate a separate definition of the offence of torture. Other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment may be deemed to fall within the definitions of existing offences in the Criminal Code. These include articles 248 and 249 (concerning sexual abuse); articles 287 to 299 (concerning crimes against a person's liberty, slavery, kidnapping, assault and battery and unlawful threat, the infliction of bodily injury or causing death).


129. The statements made above with respect to articles 10, 11, 12 and 13 are also applicable to the acts referred to in article 16 of the Convention.

[private eye]

It appears at first glance that witnesses can be held until they talk. Whether or not this is correct and what limitations there are I don't know. I realize that this seems to be crimes committed by the state involving brutality and torture, I don't think it is limited to that, and in the course of the discussion, the summary explains Netherland Antilles Law and procedures, I think:) My trouble has been locating anything in English.