Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas

Is it possible to have the Christmas corsage removed from Ducky's neck and ... a Valentine heart put in its place.

I appreciate if the star remained.  You see ... I climb on Ducky's back each night after I we leave the cage and ... he takes me to Never Never Land.  He will not lose the way ... the star will guide him.  My worst nightmare ... we would end up Heaven knows where and ...  never make our way back to the cage in the morning.

Thanks

Janet

[robots]

after they killed her, they left her alone. but it wasnt on the beach
it was somewhere near water, like a small pond. then the cleaner uppers came to move her....

this type of thing was planned, not in the sense that THIS specific time it would happen but they knew if you drug someone this could always be a possibility

this was planned in that sense

 

[klaasend]

FYI - According to LindaK at BFN the snorkeling trip the MB kids went on was with DePalm Tours.  Here is a photo of the boat they use for the snorkeling excursions:

http://www.depalm.com/



So if this is true, it would have nothing to do with the Octopus.

[klaasend]

Klaas

Is it possible to have the Christmas corsage removed from Ducky's neck and ... a Valentine heart put in its place.

I appreciate if the star remained.  You see ... I climb on Ducky's back each night after I we leave the cage and ... he takes me to Never Never Land.  He will not lose the way ... the star will guide him.  My worst nightmare ... we would end up Heaven knows where and ...  never make our way back to the cage in the morning.

Thanks

Janet

Sure 

[Kiwi]

I have a suggestion for anyone still monitoring from Aruba. If you really want to solve this, run all the cell records for the entire island from 9:00 pm Sunday night to Tuesday 6:00 am. That should only involve a few thousand calls for the whole island. Then you will need to filter out calls not related to the case. Thats a little tricky since you need to include any calls that seem unrelated but have names on the investigation lists. Example, if Paulus called a gardener or a minister or another judge in that time period, then it stays in the pool of numbers and locations to investigate. They could have used a cell phone from a friend, so you need to list all of those individuals. Any thing in the first 12 hours is the most important. You need to account for off shore and remote locations. Just map it out and take your time. This will work unless someone has erased the evidence for that period of time. Of course that person now becomes a lead. Any thing before Tuesday 6:00 am is before there was report of a possible crime. No one should be worried about just using the phone, unless you talked to J2KPA during that time. After filtering out tourists and locals, your GPS hits will probably be 30 to 40.

[Kiwi]

Time for Kiwi to go home and feed the real Kiwi.

[Observer]

I know some have said even if the Persistence doesn't find anything this will eliminate one avenue of thought as to Natalee being in the ocean.   If they do  not search around the entire island how is that possible to say?  If she isn't found I don't think any possibility is eliminated.  Guess I don't see it like everyone else.   

We know a speed boat can get to Venezuela in less than a hour and thats 18 miles out,so they could have disposed Natalee quickly almost anywhere. It's impossible to search that entire ocean around Aruba. It would take months and tens of millions just to cover 5 miles around half of the island and thats not going to happen. The Persistence was mostly searching the most logical theories and tips that they received and that was a 22sq mile area on the northern tip of the island. Sounded like they started a new area/grid but High seas impeded the efforts a bit.

Last time we heard from Kyle it sounded like the crew was weathered and maybe even a bit frustrated and tired. The search can't go on forever and I am hoping and praying they found her. If they found nothing then it would be safe to say Natalee wasnt buried in a crab trap in that area that they covered and thats all. The task at hand was enormous unless she was placed in a crab trap in that specific area they searched and even finding that would be absolutely amazing. Even if she was in a barrel in that 22 sq mile area I am not sure they would see it. Either way the Persistence crew deserves  huge praise for trying and sacrificing there Holidays as well as bankrolling the entire search.

I wonder what Paul and Anita were saying privately as they watched the Persistence off shore from the beach?

[Lala'sMom]

How long had the Gottenbos lived in Aruba? Am I right they just sold their house and moved to Georgia?  I know Sander was seen in that photo with the money in his hand flashing it like it was something grand.  That seemed more like a "pimp" thing to do.  Does anyone else think that Sander is much more outgoing and more likely to be involved in something shady with Joran than Koen?  Then again, I have to wonder if the Hawaiian looking guy I was talking about today was Koen.  If it was Koen, why wasn't he on that boat with Sander?  They just left him home alone and went to Florida?  WTH?  Was Koen not in school too?  They both were home and who knows where the parents were. Just a little FYI here....Koen was questioned at the same time as Sander on June 16...for the Simian watchers...Clyde Burke questioned Sander. Between these two statements both Freddy and Satish were questioned.  I don't think we have Satish's PV.  Then on June 17 Clyde Burke questioned Sander again...he had more questions.  How did he come by these questions?  What did Freddy and Satish say in between to their interrogators? Also on June 17 they question Freddy again and Steve Croes and Koen again and last but not least they question Jaime after 1:00 pm that day.  Jaime said he went to bed at 10:00 PM the night in question. Wait!  Didn't Joran say he called him after he talked to his daddy?  No phone records...no evidence. If the Gottenbos boat was used....Sander knew about it or he drove it.  I think he drove it...he would not loan it to Joran...but would he loan it to Paulus? Or Freddy? Joran knew the boat was available...he had a means of transportation. Sander's phone was lost in all the chaos.  But the most important thing here is Simian posted his first comment on the FP of SM at 5:08 PM the same day. MOO




Sander's 6/17 PV...notice he did not mention any of this the day before...

On your question about how the conversation went, I will tell you the following;
The conversation went that I asked him if he wanted to go out on my fathers boat.

He said that he could not go because he was going to play poker at the Holiday Inn. There is tournament each Sunday in aforementioned hotel and Joran participates almost each week in that tournament.

On your question what kind of boat my father has, I will explain to you the following:
 It is a speedboat, of the make "Sea Pro".

On your question if Joran had been on our boat before, I will explain to you the following:
Joran has never been on our boat and has also never with our dangers. (?)

On your question if I had spoken on May 29, 2005 with Joran by means of the computer, I will explain you the following:
I do not remember myself if I had spoken to him by means of the computer. If he had been online then it would be possible.

On your question if I had contact on May 30, 2005 with Joran, I will explain to you the following:
I truly cannot remember myself if I had spoke with him.

I do not think by telephone for certain because my telephone was stolen that day at school. I think that I had no contact with Joran by means of the computer.

On your question if I had contact with Joran on May 31, 2005, I will explain to you the following:
I did not have contact with Joran on 31 May 2005. I did, however, have telephone contact with Freddy. The conversation went concerning my telephone that was stolen. The first time that I saw him was on Wednesday, therefore June 1, 2005.

[private eye]

I know some have said even if the Persistence doesn't find anything this will eliminate one avenue of thought as to Natalee being in the ocean.   If they do  not search around the entire island how is that possible to say?  If she isn't found I don't think any possibility is eliminated.  Guess I don't see it like everyone else.   

We know a speed boat can get to Venezuela in less than a hour and thats 18 miles out,so it's impossible to search that entire ocean around Aruba. It would take months and tens of millions just to cover 5 miles around the majority of the island and thats not going to happen. The Persistence was mostly searching the most logical theories and tips that they received and that was a 22sq mile area on the northern tip of the island. Sounded like they started a new area/grid but High seas impeded the efforts a bit.

Last time we heard from Kyle it sounded like the crew was weathered and maybe even a bit frustrated and tired. The search can't go on forever and I am hoping and praying they found her. If they found nothing then it would be safe to say Natalee wasnt buried in a crab trap in that area that they covered and thats all. The task at hand was enormous unless she was placed in a crab trap in that specific area they searched and even finding that would be absolutely amazing. Either way the Persistence crew deserves  huge praise for trying and sacrificing there Holidays as well as bankrolling the entire search.

I wonder what Paul and Anita were saying privately as they watched the Persistence off shore from the beach?

"Why oh why can't they just let it go?"

And the Monkeys say "In your dream maybe, but not in this life. No not until Joran and Co are all tightly tucked in their warm beds at the KIA Institute for problem children!"

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas

Is it possible to have the Christmas corsage removed from Ducky's neck and ... a Valentine heart put in its place.

I appreciate if the star remained.  You see ... I climb on Ducky's back each night after I we leave the cage and ... he takes me to Never Never Land.  He will not lose the way ... the star will guide him.  My worst nightmare ... we would end up Heaven knows where and ...  never make our way back to the cage in the morning.

Thanks

Janet

Sure 

Klaas ... I changed my mind.   

Could I please have flower like yours rather than the Valentine ... maybe a little smaller.

Thanks

Janet

[Observer]

Kyle told us on the 4th and 5th that the ocean conditions were rough but they were able to work at 1/2 the pace but it was hard on the crew. Let's all pray the search hasn't ended.

[memphis]

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[klaasend]

Sure Janet - I'll fix you up in a bit and change it for you.

[memphis]

... Then again, I have to wonder if the Hawaiian looking guy I was talking about today was Koen... 

I'm just butting in here and haven't followed closely, but having lived in Hawaii and having been asked if I was Hawaiian too many times to count, I don't think most would describe Koen as Hawaiian. 

[Observer]

... Then again, I have to wonder if the Hawaiian looking guy I was talking about today was Koen...

I'm just butting in here and haven't followed closely, but having lived in Hawaii and having been asked if I was Hawaiian too many times to count, I don't think most would describe Koen as Hawaiian. 

The only person I think look's similar to a Hawaain is Andre Santo's who was born in Brazil. That's who I think the MB girls were talking about.MO

[Tamikosmom]

Sure Janet - I'll fix you up in a bit and change it for you.

I am sorry to be such a pain.

Klaas ... this is when you say ... "No problem Janet ... you are not a pain".   

Janet

[memphis]

IMO, that's a hard one, *******. What is Hawaiian looking to one person may not be to another. But, I don't think the blond boy would be the one. The Santos kid is a good possbility.

Having lived there, I would say Steve Croes could pass easily as Samoan (there are many in Hawaii), but only someone who had lived there would see him that way.

[Lala'sMom]

IMO, that's a hard one, *******. What is Hawaiian looking to one person may not be to another. But, I don't think the blond boy would be the one. The Santos kid is a good possbility.

Having lived there, I would say Steve Croes could pass easily as Samoan (there are many in Hawaii), but only someone who had lived there would see him that way.

Well the 302 says fat Chinese or Hawaiian looking...if I knew how to post things side by side it would be interesting to look at them and see which might fit.  Koen, Jaime, Steve, Andre, and any of Joran's other friends.  He did come to talk to Joran...so she must have seem him for a few seconds at least...obviously she didn't pay real good attention to him but she did mention him as talking to Joran.

[memphis]

IMO, that's a hard one, *******. What is Hawaiian looking to one person may not be to another. But, I don't think the blond boy would be the one. The Santos kid is a good possbility.

Having lived there, I would say Steve Croes could pass easily as Samoan (there are many in Hawaii), but only someone who had lived there would see him that way.

Well the 302 says fat Chinese or Hawaiian looking...if I knew how to post things side by side it would be interesting to look at them and see which might fit.  Koen, Jaime, Steve, Andre, and any of Joran's other friends.  He did come to talk to Joran...so she must have seem him for a few seconds at least...obviously she didn't pay real good attention to him but she did mention him as talking to Joran.

Lalas, I was just looking at their pictures. Of all the choices, I would say cross off Koen. I just don't think he could be described as Chinese or Hawaiian. Just didn't want you to go down a wrong path.

Was this in Lee's pv? If I think like an MB girl, I would probably agree with ******* and go with Andre. Especially after looking at his sister, Alessandra's pic.

[klaasend]

IMO, that's a hard one, *******. What is Hawaiian looking to one person may not be to another. But, I don't think the blond boy would be the one. The Santos kid is a good possbility.

Having lived there, I would say Steve Croes could pass easily as Samoan (there are many in Hawaii), but only someone who had lived there would see him that way.

Well the 302 says fat Chinese or Hawaiian looking...if I knew how to post things side by side it would be interesting to look at them and see which might fit.  Koen, Jaime, Steve, Andre, and any of Joran's other friends.  He did come to talk to Joran...so she must have seem him for a few seconds at least...obviously she didn't pay real good attention to him but she did mention him as talking to Joran.

To me, the Chinese or Hawaiian looking guy could only be Andre dos Santos.  Andre was known to gamble with Joran.  That's who I would bet it is.  Just my opinion.