Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[Observer]

Well needed optimism,thank you Robots!

hope is not a strategy but sometimes its all we got

 

That and to boycott the hell out of Aruba! 

That island is only 74 sq miles. Although theres a chance she could be buried somewhere on it,the percentage has to be extremely low. It is surrounded by water and everyone knows someone with a boat. The Van Der Sloots never ever want Natalee to be found and the best way to guarentee that is the ocean. We have the best team in the world out searching right now. So please everyone say a prayer,that Natalee is found tommorow! Time is running out and we need a miracle!

Light a candle for Natalee and the Persistece crew
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=NAH

[texasmom]

*******, we're thinking a lot alike!  Except I've decided that we need to Boycott all of the ABC islands.  The judges for the most part have been from Curacao, and considering where the poor excuse of a chief of police went, I don't believe Bonaire is any better either.  In Beth's book the part about the areas they were not allowed to search with the "barbed wire" around the tops of the fences, there are a LOT of those in Curacao too.  We vacationed there in 2001 and we were all curious as to why this was necessary, they even had broken glass in the fencing!  I'm also remembering what Amy Bradley's family went through and they still don't have answers.  Before I read your post I was about to suggest that we all say an extra prayer and maybe send a post to Kyle on his website to let them know we are all still hoping and praying for their success.

[Observer]

Hi TM

Sending a post to Kyle and the Team is a great idea. They have been on that ship now approaching 3 weeks and some even longer. Time is ticking and this may be Natalee's best chance for ever coming home. I hope they are not getting discouraged or feeling all alone in this search. I'M a bit sad because I know in my heart Joran has told several people what they did with Natalee. They have to live the rest of there lives knowing they did nothing to help. What's the big deal about Natalee being found? Unless Koen's brothers cell phone is with Natalee,Whats preventing him from making a anonymous email? It's been 31 months now and most humans I would think want to relieve there conscious about what they know.

Right now all that is on my Boycott list is Aruba. But I am highly suspicious what the mother country has been doing with this case since Aug 2006. MOS=FOS as far as I am concerned  I don't know much about Bonaire and Curacao except they are very similar to Aruba. I would be stunned if either Govt is 1/10th as Evil as the Aruban Govt.

P.S.
I like the way you think 

[crazybabyborg]

I've been posting in the search threads. Is there a better way to send a message of encouragement to the search crews?

[texasmom]

Hi *******,
I'm not happy with the mother country either, I definately agree on the "MOS=FOS", among other things.  I don't think some of them have a conscious, in the beginning there was one suspect that I thought might but I guess I was wrong.  It is sad......One day they may have children....how will they look back on what they've done or what they've hidden?

[klaasend]

I've been posting in the search threads. Is there a better way to send a message of encouragement to the search crews?

CBB - I think if you post here in the search theads or over on the Search Blog both will be seen.  Kyle comes here and reads when he gets the opportunity to.

[texasmom]

I'd better call it a night...6am is not far away. 
Goodnight everyone!

[IBE]

Re the cartoon:

The hatch marks at the upper left appear to cover something...also drawn with straight lines...so it is necessary to print the cartoon and use good lighting and perhaps a magnifying glass.  I see at the very edge of the paper under the hatchmarks a larger house and then a small one room house-type figure next to it.  I always thought that referred to Joran's apartment.

I'll stop as I know that we have covered this off and on for the past 2+ years.  It has always been a mystery.  It looks like Karl may have been his source.

I never realized that was a house Mere until you just told me.  It could have been mentioned before but I could have missed it.  I also agree that it is the Van der Sloot house.  As far as it being Joran's apartment it could be or even the shed in the Sloot dump.

It is always good to go over things again because people miss stuff.

It looks like a church with a cemetery beside it to me.
I can see a steeple.

With my little laptop screen, it looks like a donkey to me

Keep up the good works and dedication, Good Monkeys! Remember we are all family

[IBE]

Have we ever made any connections between the PTB on Aruba and the North Korean arms thing that Beth mentioned in her book? 

Well, if I remember correctly there was talk that whatever was going on with Natalee and as it was found out. it would shock the world"

Here's Rob's idea of what it its all about:


Rob
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #682 9/24 -
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2007, 01:28:40 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
"Since no one was able to make the connection (and I'm surprised, everyone must be having and off day) I will.

North Korea has no money. Zip, Zilch, NaDa! Unless you consider them printing OUR currency a free foreign aid program.

They print the money using equipment available to only a few countries in the world. (And no, I do not know how they or the Iranians got their hands on it, I think that is a big question). This equipment to produce money is very high tech and used by only a few governments. The Iranians have somehow got the same equipment. They also print 100 dollars bills and when Warren Christopher was Sec of Defense he declared it an act of war. So know you know how and why Bill Clinton made Aruba a target all the way back in 1996 or 1998. (I forget which year off the top of my head).

I also, believe that the US Treasury also produces all the Aruban Florins. So they like money that is not counterfeited.

Back to the connection.

When the North Koreans flip the switch on the printing that's just the start. The fake money is then stored until there is a lot of it. Like a few hundred million. Then the fake money needs to enter the flow of commerce.

They need an accomplice willing to distribute the money. Enter ARUBA and their corrupt banking system.

After Aruba gets the money, they exchange with North Korea a percent. Aruba may receive 15 percent or more. Possibly as much as 30 percent. Could be as high as 50 percent.

100 dollar bill - counterfeit.
-50 given to Aruba
-50 given back to North Korea in CLEAN AMERICAN DOLLARS -  THE REAL ONES THEY GET FROM GAMBLING AND ALL THE OTHER CROOKED STUFF THAT HAPPENS ON THAT ISLAND.

The clean American dollars (the actual real money) goes into building the North Korean Nuke Program.

So, North Korea basically declares war on the USA by counterfeiting out currency and that currency the gets moved around in the Aruban banking system (Banco De Carribe and Aru-bank and a few others) then gets co-mingled with real money that makes it's way to SA and back to North America where it is promptly rounded up as counterfeit.

This scheme involving the North Koreans will not work unless you have a lawless nation with access to real American money. (Another reason to boycott that dump).

It would not work with a nation like Dominica. Not enough real American Dollars in circulation. You need a vast sum.

So how much?

Billions. You need access to a country that has or has access to billions of America dollars.

And that is why Aruba is chosen, and is a willing participant.

So how did this stop the investigation? This like be my opinion.

It (the investigation) got derailed because North Korea was the major cog here. There was a diplomatic effort over the last 10 years to get North Korea to dismantle a program that no one is sure was ever real. They did explode a high amount of something, but no one knows if it was a nuke or not. If it was, it was low level yield. A small nuke. If it was even that at all.

No one in the State Dept was going to take Aruba apart while that effort was on going.

And while there is an agreement between North Korea and the 6 Party Nations to disarm they are up to their old shenanigans again. No one is sure they will totally disarm.

So, you have a price to pay. Do you allow a few billion dollars to go through a God Less little death trap in exchange for an entire region being Nuke Free and getting those weapons out of the hands of a madman? And in turn leave that little rock alone for the time being?

That question is easy to answer from a State Dept view point. Of course you do.

We are talking about the lives of over a billion people involved here.

It's obvious that the US Federal Gov't has known about this scheme for quite sometime and has decided negotiation  is the correct route.

Looks like Natalee and her family did get caught in something bigger than any of us imagine at the time.
Rob
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So how did this stop the investigation? This like be my opinion.

It (the investigation) got derailed because North Korea was the major cog here. There was a diplomatic effort over the last 10 years to get North Korea to dismantle a program that no one is sure was ever real. They did explode a high amount of something, but no one knows if it was a nuke or not. If it was, it was low level yield. A small nuke. If it was even that at all.

No one in the State Dept was going to take Aruba apart while that effort was on going.

And while there is an agreement between North Korea and the 6 Party Nations to disarm they are up to their old shenanigans again. No one is sure they will totally disarm.

So, you have a price to pay. Do you allow a few billion dollars to go through a God Less little death trap in exchange for an entire region being Nuke Free and getting those weapons out of the hands of a madman? And in turn leave that little rock alone for the time being?

That question is easy to answer from a State Dept view point. Of course you do.

We are talking about the lives of over a billion people involved here.

It's obvious that the US Federal Gov't has known about this scheme for quite sometime and has decided negotiation  is the correct route.

Looks like Natalee and her family did get caught in something bigger than any of us imagine at the time."

[/quote]

[MumInOhio]

Thank You Ibe

8-20-2003

But it's true that i heard that Lorenzo the son of the owner Paul( the one who hanged himself last year) was talking about wanting to come with a VW animal animal for a long time now, they have money, he and his dad were giving bills of 100 florin away like crazy when they invited us to trip with them.Posted by pietjezz6-9-2005

Off topic, do you guys remember the incident where a father and his son of a wellknown cardealership full drogged off entered a party with a car and did the madmax thing(???).... Well, some employers of C&C saw the son getting out  hand in hand with this chick. Does this mean that the 2 guys in custody are smoke screen??? Posted by Ginox

Posted by Pietjezz 6-10-2005

                                                            GinoX I don't get this? I know you're talking about Lorenzo and his now deceased dad Paul of VW ! I'm straight to the point!   You mean, this american chick was seen getting out of C&C hand in hand with Lorenzo?? Where did that (info) come from?  Didn't the story go that she got out( C&C) and got into a car with a dutch boy and 2 suriname??

But now i don't know if i'm getting paranoid or what, but at beginning of the week my neighbour told me that they detained Lorenzo and he has something to do with this case! I was in shock, and more so when they said that one dutch guy is involved it gave me more reason to think that it must be him!                                                                                                    A few days later they released the name of the dutch guy Joran, I thought ahn no, it's not Lorenzo ( What i thought at first)                                                                                        But what has me puzzled ( confused i think) is if you  look at diario of a few days back aparantly they arrested Joran at his house!!! But the house looks alot like Lorenzo's house at Yara/Savaneta.  So i had to ask what was going on?? Am i paranoid or how?                              What connection could Lorenzo and Joran have with each other in this case here!                                                                                                                                  And what made me post this post is the post of GinoX!

Gino can you explain what you mean or someone else please!! confused confused
 
 
 

[MumInOhio]

Sorry...*******....that was from the Lorenzo thread.


Can anyone remember when the male and femal TV/Media peaople committed suicide, please?  The woman was on a balcony. TIA

[MumInOhio]

LOL.....I found it......Good Morning all!

12/27/2006 -- Diario reports the apparent suicide of Brigitte Christine Katelaan, 37, a producer for Tele Aruba. Death by hanging.
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/12/27/
Posted by klaas on M&C thread 12/27/2006.

[wreck]

Have we ever made any connections between the PTB on Aruba and the North Korean arms thing that Beth mentioned in her book? 

Well, if I remember correctly there was talk that whatever was going on with Natalee and as it was found out. it would shock the world"

Here's Rob's idea of what it its all about:


Rob
Scared Monkey
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Posts: 4144
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #682 9/24 -
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2007, 01:28:40 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
"Since no one was able to make the connection (and I'm surprised, everyone must be having and off day) I will.

North Korea has no money. Zip, Zilch, NaDa! Unless you consider them printing OUR currency a free foreign aid program.

They print the money using equipment available to only a few countries in the world. (And no, I do not know how they or the Iranians got their hands on it, I think that is a big question). This equipment to produce money is very high tech and used by only a few governments. The Iranians have somehow got the same equipment. They also print 100 dollars bills and when Warren Christopher was Sec of Defense he declared it an act of war. So know you know how and why Bill Clinton made Aruba a target all the way back in 1996 or 1998. (I forget which year off the top of my head).

I also, believe that the US Treasury also produces all the Aruban Florins. So they like money that is not counterfeited.

Back to the connection.

When the North Koreans flip the switch on the printing that's just the start. The fake money is then stored until there is a lot of it. Like a few hundred million. Then the fake money needs to enter the flow of commerce.

They need an accomplice willing to distribute the money. Enter ARUBA and their corrupt banking system.

After Aruba gets the money, they exchange with North Korea a percent. Aruba may receive 15 percent or more. Possibly as much as 30 percent. Could be as high as 50 percent.

100 dollar bill - counterfeit.
-50 given to Aruba
-50 given back to North Korea in CLEAN AMERICAN DOLLARS -  THE REAL ONES THEY GET FROM GAMBLING AND ALL THE OTHER CROOKED STUFF THAT HAPPENS ON THAT ISLAND.

The clean American dollars (the actual real money) goes into building the North Korean Nuke Program.

So, North Korea basically declares war on the USA by counterfeiting out currency and that currency the gets moved around in the Aruban banking system (Banco De Carribe and Aru-bank and a few others) then gets co-mingled with real money that makes it's way to SA and back to North America where it is promptly rounded up as counterfeit.

This scheme involving the North Koreans will not work unless you have a lawless nation with access to real American money. (Another reason to boycott that dump).

It would not work with a nation like Dominica. Not enough real American Dollars in circulation. You need a vast sum.

So how much?

Billions. You need access to a country that has or has access to billions of America dollars.

And that is why Aruba is chosen, and is a willing participant.

So how did this stop the investigation? This like be my opinion.

It (the investigation) got derailed because North Korea was the major cog here. There was a diplomatic effort over the last 10 years to get North Korea to dismantle a program that no one is sure was ever real. They did explode a high amount of something, but no one knows if it was a nuke or not. If it was, it was low level yield. A small nuke. If it was even that at all.

No one in the State Dept was going to take Aruba apart while that effort was on going.

And while there is an agreement between North Korea and the 6 Party Nations to disarm they are up to their old shenanigans again. No one is sure they will totally disarm.

So, you have a price to pay. Do you allow a few billion dollars to go through a God Less little death trap in exchange for an entire region being Nuke Free and getting those weapons out of the hands of a madman? And in turn leave that little rock alone for the time being?

That question is easy to answer from a State Dept view point. Of course you do.

We are talking about the lives of over a billion people involved here.

It's obvious that the US Federal Gov't has known about this scheme for quite sometime and has decided negotiation  is the correct route.

Looks like Natalee and her family did get caught in something bigger than any of us imagine at the time.
Rob
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4144


So how did this stop the investigation? This like be my opinion.

It (the investigation) got derailed because North Korea was the major cog here. There was a diplomatic effort over the last 10 years to get North Korea to dismantle a program that no one is sure was ever real. They did explode a high amount of something, but no one knows if it was a nuke or not. If it was, it was low level yield. A small nuke. If it was even that at all.

No one in the State Dept was going to take Aruba apart while that effort was on going.

And while there is an agreement between North Korea and the 6 Party Nations to disarm they are up to their old shenanigans again. No one is sure they will totally disarm.

So, you have a price to pay. Do you allow a few billion dollars to go through a God Less little death trap in exchange for an entire region being Nuke Free and getting those weapons out of the hands of a madman? And in turn leave that little rock alone for the time being?

That question is easy to answer from a State Dept view point. Of course you do.

We are talking about the lives of over a billion people involved here.

It's obvious that the US Federal Gov't has known about this scheme for quite sometime and has decided negotiation  is the correct route.

Looks like Natalee and her family did get caught in something bigger than any of us imagine at the time."

[/quote]
I think Rob has it nailed.

[Dayhiker]

Just last week Judge Wit said that Police Chief Dompig obstructed the Investigation and didn't want them searching the Van Der Sloot property. He said they wanted to protect Paul Van Der Sloots privacy!!!Then said that the OM didn't request to search the property outside of Jorans Apt or anything in the future!! He admitted they waited 16 days to search the house then blocked everything except the jorans lil apt and 2 cars. Do they think we are stupid? A heavy weight judge just admitted Dompig obstructed the Investigation,they protected the main suspects and the prosecuters office did nothing except cover up a murder. This was just a week after they announced the case was cold/closed....You have got to be kidding me!

Good observation *******. Where was Judge Bob Wit in December 2005 when Dompig announced (after six months of  keeping it a secret) that the judge denied a full search of the premises? Why is he speaking out now, because the case is closed?

Somebody is lying. Dompig and Jannsen either lied to the international media or Judge Wit is lying his ass off to try to cover his tail.

Does this prove the cover-up or what??????

[private eye]

Heli from RU write this
In addition, the suggestion that Deepak cut out or otherwise removed
portions of the interior of the car as a means of foiling detection of
physical evidence, merely shows the ignorance of All10.

Let's assume portions of the upholstery or headliner were removed
to get rid of bio evidence of foul play. Be assured that any new fabric,
carpet or seats would be readily detected by forensic examiners. Anything
recently installed in or on that car could easily be identified as such and
followed up on by ALE. There was nothing of evidenciary value!

Were we not told that Deepaks cars radio was installed there for he had all the carpets replaced in order to run the wiring?  All the guy at the Auto place could talk about was how Deepak didnt mention a licence or the girl........Duhhhh, NO they didnt follow up on that at all IMO

But I always thought that the Aruban authorities actually tampered with the evidence prior to shipping it to Holland. As such, and if you believe that they did, I don't think we can expect them to uncover any irregular activities by Deepak in connection with this case, even though it would take very little forensics to determine this. I always assumed that replaced the original blood stained swatch of fabric with another sample of the uphostery stained with chocolate. If you cut a 4 inch square originally, cut it down to 2 or simply cut an additional sample. They would have replaced the interior afterwards to ensure that no additional forensic evidence would be found.

I don't thin that the word cover up is even appropriate any more. The Aruban authorities destroyed this evidence knowing that we would know that they did, and knowing that there is nothing that we can do. Over and over the evidence needed to convict the boys was discovered by the diligence, committment, and professionalism of their detectives, efficiently, and they then did just as good of a job either destroying the evidence that they had collected. Then saying what evidence? We need to know of any and all evidence so that we may collect and destroy it. Confession? Time out, the prisoner has broke. Call his parents so that they can come counsel him to cease talking, recant the confession, and recover from his remose.

It is a stretch usually to blame the parents for the path a child takes in life, but in this case and the direction that this young man chose, he chose to take this direction because his parents chose it for him. My belief in this is the recording in the police car in which Joran says plainly that he is doing what his parents have instructed him to do. There were several other roads he could have taken. However, most children only listen to their parents when they encounter trouble for which they are guilty and look to the parents to take care of the problem. The interuption of the confession followed by the visits from his parents, followed predictably by his subsequent refusal to sign the confession, his recanting of the confession, and his refusal to speak anymore to the authorities seem to indicate that he is on their path as well.

[Tamikosmom]

all hope is not lost, i once waited years for something. 

i have seen things in my life that many people would say... "that will never happen"

sure, it may never happen but it you "shake it up" you dont always get the same thing out of the mix....lets keep shaking

shake shake it some more.

Natalee was murdered, it was covered up, and people know this.

it was not done by 1 person. probably not even done by 2 people.

that is a powerful thing on our side...

justice is right around the corner 

Roberts ... I agree completely with your post.

Janet

[private eye]

Just last week Judge Wit said that Police Chief Dompig obstructed the Investigation and didn't want them searching the Van Der Sloot property. He said they wanted to protect Paul Van Der Sloots privacy!!!Then said that the OM didn't request to search the property outside of Jorans Apt or anything in the future!! He admitted they waited 16 days to search the house then blocked everything except the jorans lil apt and 2 cars. Do they think we are stupid? A heavy weight judge just admitted Dompig obstructed the Investigation,they protected the main suspects and the prosecuters office did nothing except cover up a murder. This was just a week after they announced the case was cold/closed....You have got to be kidding me!

Good observation *******. Where was Judge Bob Wit in December 2005 when Dompig announced (after six months of  keeping it a secret) that the judge denied a full search of the premises? Why is he speaking out now, because the case is closed?

Somebody is lying. Dompig and Jannsen either lied to the international media or Judge Wit is lying his ass off to try to cover his tail.

Does this prove the cover-up or what??????

If Judge Wit believed that justice was obstructed by the Cheif of Police, why doesn't he order an investigation of the investigation and prosecute people who committed obstruction of justice? Especially if it includes the police or prosecutor, even the minister of justice?

Furthermore, Judge Wit just told us he determined that a coverup had indeed occurred, with the cooperation of at least the COP.

[private eye]

Just last week Judge Wit said that Police Chief Dompig obstructed the Investigation and didn't want them searching the Van Der Sloot property. He said they wanted to protect Paul Van Der Sloots privacy!!!Then said that the OM didn't request to search the property outside of Jorans Apt or anything in the future!! He admitted they waited 16 days to search the house then blocked everything except the jorans lil apt and 2 cars. Do they think we are stupid? A heavy weight judge just admitted Dompig obstructed the Investigation,they protected the main suspects and the prosecuters office did nothing except cover up a murder. This was just a week after they announced the case was cold/closed....You have got to be kidding me!

Good observation *******. Where was Judge Bob Wit in December 2005 when Dompig announced (after six months of  keeping it a secret) that the judge denied a full search of the premises? Why is he speaking out now, because the case is closed?

Somebody is lying. Dompig and Jannsen either lied to the international media or Judge Wit is lying his ass off to try to cover his tail.

Does this prove the cover-up or what??????

If Judge Wit believed that justice was obstructed by the Cheif of Police, why doesn't he order an investigation of the investigation and prosecute people who committed obstruction of justice? Especially if it includes the police or prosecutor, even the minister of justice?

Furthermore, Judge Wit just told us he determined that a coverup had indeed occurred, with the cooperation of at least the COP.

Why did Judge Wit, when faced with a judgment call concerning the search of the VDS, choose the path most likely to create an appearance of impropriety by choosing the path to limit the exposure of a citizen he knew professionally and personally, in direct violation of his Code of Ethics?

[private eye]

Organized crime is interested in any "work" that brings it huge profits, regardless of how many are hurt or how wrong it is. Just like Rob's post that accuses Aruba of being involved somehow in the introduction of counterfeit money into the US by Korea, it is not a stretch to see Aruba's controlling gangsters doing business with terrorists including the shipping of materials for them into our borders. Remember Aruba believes it is our responsibility to protect our own borders concerning the role of Aruba as a staging cite and washing machine for drug money resulting from the US drug business originating in Aruba or with the help of Aruba. Aruba believes Beth was stupid for allowing her teenage daughter to travel there for a graduation trip. They knew something she didn't obviously.

[Dayhiker]

If Judge Wit believed that justice was obstructed by the Cheif of Police, why doesn't he order an investigation of the investigation and prosecute people who committed obstruction of justice? Especially if it includes the police or prosecutor, even the minister of justice?

Furthermore, Judge Wit just told us he determined that a coverup had indeed occurred, with the cooperation of at least the COP.

Why did Judge Wit, when faced with a judgment call concerning the search of the VDS, choose the path most likely to create an appearance of impropriety by choosing the path to limit the exposure of a citizen he knew professionally and personally, in direct violation of his Code of Ethics?

At the very least Judge Wit should have spoken up to defend himself in December 2005 when HE WAS ACCUSED OF LIMITING THE SEARCH. Nada. Nothing. It was all over the media and he did nothing, he let the statements calling him corrupt stand for two years? He is supposed to be a man of justice and he let lies stand? I doubt it.

I find Wit's accusations now after the case is closed to be highly suspicious but knowing his, Jannsen's and Dompig's lack of credibility and integrity it wouldn't surprise me at all if ALL THREE were in on the limited search along with prosecution official Ben Vocking.

Bigger question, why have the Dutch ignored all this?