Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[MumInOhio]

I wish we could find out who the two instructors/employees were on the boat.

[private eye]

Guido and the Wever kids are 2 witnesses who could be held until they talk. Guido is certainly intimately acquainted with Joran being his child hood friend and having been with Joran the next day after her disappearance.

Instead Aruba plays the part of the ignorant chump, what can we do? We know but can't? BS

Then why haven't they done it by now? Would that have not made a better case for the prosecution before Mos went to Aruba?

You have more faith in Mos than I do PI,  . I just can't buy into anything he has done after the feeble dog and pony show he put on last November/December. Nine months and 5-10 million dollars spent and he goes to Aruba with a few new communication snippets?

I know that I am out on a limb in trusting any authority representing Aruba to be legit, I have no choice as Mos is the only choice I have seen so far who has done anything to shed light on the corruption effectively or to take so action designed to gain evidence.

He did execute a valid strategy to extract information from the boys at great risk to himself and expense. At this point I don't see where it was a bad plan, but I admit it was an iffy plan. And there apparently was some incriminating evidence, whether or not it was enough I don't think we know, except the Judge Wit said it wasn't. Who do we believe, Wit or Mos? When all of the evidence has been gathered and destroyed previously, the confessions of the guilty recanted and the boys further instructed to be silent by paren.

Proof of his effectiveness I took from Wit publicly defending himself and the fact that he searched Cand C patrons for weapons. Proof no but signs of good intention are being seen, but he has a lot more to do if he is for real, granted. Someboy over there has to fix it, and it seems like  we need to provided support to those like Mos until we know otherwise.

I certainly don't know, and as I said, I know it is against popular belief. Maybe I am hoping that I can create a good guy by supporting him. I just hope he doesn't make me a fool::::::

[private eye]

Guido and the Wever kids are 2 witnesses who could be held until they talk. Guido is certainly intimately acquainted with Joran being his child hood friend and having been with Joran the next day after her disappearance.

Instead Aruba plays the part of the ignorant chump, what can we do? We know but can't? BS

Hi...PI....do you mean the Santos boys or are there more Wevers than we know about?

Actually, I think he means the Gottenboss boys....Sander and Koen.

I thought that after I posted, too, Peaches.

Pita...what do we know about this guy, anything?

Actually all of them:)))))))))))

[Pita]

Guido and the Wever kids are 2 witnesses who could be held until they talk. Guido is certainly intimately acquainted with Joran being his child hood friend and having been with Joran the next day after her disappearance.

Instead Aruba plays the part of the ignorant chump, what can we do? We know but can't? BS

Hi...PI....do you mean the Santos boys or are there more Wevers than we know about?

Actually, I think he means the Gottenboss boys....Sander and Koen.

I thought that after I posted, too, Peaches.

Pita...what do we know about this guy, anything?

Not much, just that he was a talking head for the Task Force.  I found an article where he speaks out against the boycott.

snipped....

COSBY:  We‘re going to bring in right now the island‘s chief protocol officer, Eric Brete.  He works closely with the governor‘s prime minister. 

Eric, we‘re going to bring the governor back in, in a second, because we‘re working on some audio issues.  But while we‘re waiting on that, Eric, first of all, what‘s your reaction to now another state joining on board? 

ERIC BRETE, ARUBAN CHIEF PROTOCOL OFFICER:  Good evening.  Well, all that I can say is I do not understand this boycott because of for an isolated incident that happened here on this island.  I dare to say within 100 years that some governors are calling for a boycott. 

I heard the governor say before that it‘s out of respect for the governor of Alabama and the family.  I also have respect for the governor of Alabama and the family.  And I also have a daughter.  My daughter is in school in the United States. 

And I mean, I care for my daughter very much, like I care for everybody else.  And what if something like that, God forbid, happens to her?  Should I boycott the United States?  And I mean, if we can keep going, I mean, like, for instance, you have, like, should we boycott California?  I mean, like...

(CROSSTALK)

COSBY:  Now, Mr. Brete, what‘s your reaction though?  Do you understand why the family is so frustrated and why a lot of people in America are so frustrated?  You know, they feel like, you know, things are, you know, not—people aren‘t pulled in the second time.  Questions aren‘t followed up on.  No leads.  Do you understand their frustration? 

BRETE:  Yes, I do understand their frustration.  But nobody knows what happened to Ms. Holloway.  I mean, nobody knows.  And, I mean, if we could just sit all of us together and start or try to come up with solutions or something for the problem and blame people for something that nobody knows what happened. 

I mean, like, if we‘re going to call a boycott, maybe we should—because I heard the family also say about safety.  She‘s worried about the safety of the people of Aruba.  I mean, should we call a boycott for St.  Thomas?  Two American boys out of New York were killed in St. Thomas. 

Should we call a boycott of St.  Thomas? 

I mean, why where are we going with this?  I mean, I do understand for the family.  I mean, if it was my daughter, I mean, I would do, I mean, all I could do in this world, to be able to find out where she is.  But I cannot go blame innocent people, people that are living on this island that don‘t have anything to do with that.  So a boycott, I think, it‘s out of this world to think of that. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10268803/

[Lala'sMom]

Whatley's 302 .... can't copy, sorry!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=831.0

The word I should have used was snorkeling, not scuba diving. Sorry.

[Tamikosmom]

This may go against popular belief, but I think Wit was forced by Mos, for example his press conference to Holland following the release of the boys, to defend his acts in this case. Mos is the only official with the means to expose the corruption involved with this case. He seems to have at been trying so far.

PI ... I will have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on this issue.

As far as I am aware ... it was the office of the prosecutor (Mans Mos) who took sole  responsibility for the decision not to pursue the case against Joran, Deepak and Satish ... claiming that there was insufficient "new"  evidence to bring about a conviction.

It was the same conclusion that Beth Holloway and John Q. Kelly had already arrived at following their meeting with Hans Mos.

Janet

++++++++++++++

Natalee Holloway Case Dismissed
December 18, 2007
By NBC 13 Staff
E-mail

From a press release by the Aruban Public Prosecutor’s Office:

Since the release of all three suspects the Public Prosecutor’s Office has diligently considered and weighed all available evidence. It came to the opinion that the investigation did not bring about sufficient evidence to convince a Court of law that a crime of violence against Natalee Holloway has been committed, nor that her death has been caused by involuntary actions by either of the suspects. Neither was sufficient evidence gathered for sexual abuse.  The Public Prosecutor’s Office expects that if this case would be tried in court it would lead to an acquittal of all three suspects on these various charges. Given that expectation the Public Prosecutor could no longer press charges against all three.  It is contrary to the professional conduct to prosecute someone if the prosecutor himself expects an acquittal.

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2007-12-18-0004.html

[private eye]

If it was Wit, then a complaint should be filed with the Carribean Court that Wit violated the ethics of his position by creating the perception of preferential treatment to a person who worked with him for years in the legal system of Aruba in the execution of the search warrant. The delay and the limiting of search.

CARIBBEAN COURT OF JUSTICE - CODE OF JUDICIAL CONDUCT
http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/codeofethics.html

I.  PROPRIETY

1.3 A judge shall avoid close personal association with individual members of the legal profession, particularly those who practice in the judge’s court, where such association might reasonably give rise to the suspicion or appearance of favouritism or partiality.

1.4 A judge shall avoid the use of the judge’s residence by a member of the legal profession to receive clients or other members of the legal profession in circumstances that might reasonably give rise to the suspicion or appearance of impropriety on the part of the judge.

1.9 A judge shall not allow the judge’s family, social or other relationships improperly to influence the judge’s judicial conduct and judgment as a judge.

1.10 A judge shall not use or lend the prestige of the judicial office to advance the private interests of the judge, a member of the judge’s family or of anyone else, nor shall a judge permit others to convey the impression that anyone is in a special position improperly to influence the judge in the performance of judicial duties.

Maybe we should send a copy to Wit for his own future use??????????

[private eye]

This may go against popular belief, but I think Wit was forced by Mos, for example his press conference to Holland following the release of the boys, to defend his acts in this case. Mos is the only official with the means to expose the corruption involved with this case. He seems to have at been trying so far.

PI ... I will have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on this issue.

As far as I am aware ... it was the office of the prosecutor (Mans Mos) who took sole  responsibility for the decision not to pursue the case against Joran, Deepak and Satish ... claiming that there was insufficient "new"  evidence to bring about a conviction.

It was the same conclusion that Beth Holloway and John Q. Kelly had already arrived at following their meeting with Hans Mos.

Janet

++++++++++++++

Natalee Holloway Case Dismissed
December 18, 2007
By NBC 13 Staff
E-mail

From a press release by the Aruban Public Prosecutor’s Office:

Since the release of all three suspects the Public Prosecutor’s Office has diligently considered and weighed all available evidence. It came to the opinion that the investigation did not bring about sufficient evidence to convince a Court of law that a crime of violence against Natalee Holloway has been committed, nor that her death has been caused by involuntary actions by either of the suspects. Neither was sufficient evidence gathered for sexual abuse.  The Public Prosecutor’s Office expects that if this case would be tried in court it would lead to an acquittal of all three suspects on these various charges. Given that expectation the Public Prosecutor could no longer press charges against all three.  It is contrary to the professional conduct to prosecute someone if the prosecutor himself expects an acquittal.

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2007-12-18-0004.html

I don't know that we disagree except that i am withholding judgment on Mos for the time being. History supports the theory that he will be crooked. But there are slivers of activity that indicate he is not. I don't want to not support someone who may be trying to help and then make the criticism become truth if that makes sense:)

[Pita]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWGmUwfjIQ4

[Tamikosmom]

John Q. Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
December 4, 2007

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Disappointing, Greta. I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made. And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

[MumInOhio]

Whatley's 302 .... can't copy, sorry!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=831.0

The word I should have used was snorkeling, not scuba diving. Sorry.

Did GVC work on one of these boats? I recall he didn't last long on the Visibility team. I thought I only found a couple of the companies last time I looked. (Lala's, I can't get scuba diving and snorkeling straight,I know the difference LOL, but if you ask me which one Natalee did, I don't have a clue!)

Thanks Pita...He is an elder guy. I wonder what that btn+g means that someone searched?

[sandy leiva]

hiya monkeys,klass and everyine else new and old.Im still following this case with you all but havent been online much,i moved to my new home and dont have internet setup yet.  hopefully next week.  i check in at work when i can. any new updates lately?

[sirensong]

Could this be the elusive A.B. that was interviewed by the police?  First they said  E.B., right? 

I am not sure, but I think it was  DePalma tours, the snorkeling  trip? 

[Dayhiker]

BRETE:  Yes, I do understand their frustration.  But nobody knows what happened to Ms. Holloway.  I mean, nobody knows.  And, I mean, if we could just sit all of us together and start or try to come up with solutions or something for the problem and blame people for something that nobody knows what happened. 

Nobody knows what happened to Ms. Holloway? Nobody? Let's start with a laundry list of suspects as long as your arm and add cops, government officials, ATA & AHATA, judges, prosecutors, and the Mafia.

Better answer for Brete might be "Nobody knows know why Ms. Holloway's killers haven't been brought to justice yet." That I will believe.

Nice find, Pita!

[Dayhiker]

CARIBBEAN COURT OF JUSTICE - CODE OF JUDICIAL CONDUCT
http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/codeofethics.html

I.  PROPRIETY

1.3 A judge shall avoid close personal association with individual members of the legal profession, particularly those who practice in the judge’s court, where such association might reasonably give rise to the suspicion or appearance of favouritism or partiality.

1.4 A judge shall avoid the use of the judge’s residence by a member of the legal profession to receive clients or other members of the legal profession in circumstances that might reasonably give rise to the suspicion or appearance of impropriety on the part of the judge.

1.9 A judge shall not allow the judge’s family, social or other relationships improperly to influence the judge’s judicial conduct and judgment as a judge.

1.10 A judge shall not use or lend the prestige of the judicial office to advance the private interests of the judge, a member of the judge’s family or of anyone else, nor shall a judge permit others to convey the impression that anyone is in a special position improperly to influence the judge in the performance of judicial duties.

Maybe we should send a copy to Wit for his own future use??????????

Am shocked they have a Code of Conduct. They damn sure don't adhere to it. All bets are off when you let the Dutchies handle the judiciating. 18 months for human trafficking charges? Harkens back to the days of Dutch colonialism and slavery.

[private eye]

John Q. Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
December 4, 2007

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Disappointing, Greta. I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made. And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

I realize that the failure of the plan was hard on Beth, and I assume Dave, and everyone for that matter, but Beth can take the pain of failure of well thought out plans. I assume she wants them to take some risks, which this plan obviously had, as long as they are trying. I don't want to criticize someone for trying and want to encourage the good guys over there, if there are any, to not be afraid to do anything for risk of failure.

However, I won't be surprised if I am disappointed:))))))

[Tamikosmom]

This may go against popular belief, but I think Wit was forced by Mos, for example his press conference to Holland following the release of the boys, to defend his acts in this case. Mos is the only official with the means to expose the corruption involved with this case. He seems to have at been trying so far.

PI ... I will have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on this issue.

As far as I am aware ... it was the office of the prosecutor (Mans Mos) who took sole  responsibility for the decision not to pursue the case against Joran, Deepak and Satish ... claiming that there was insufficient "new"  evidence to bring about a conviction.

It was the same conclusion that Beth Holloway and John Q. Kelly had already arrived at following their meeting with Hans Mos.

Janet

++++++++++++++

Natalee Holloway Case Dismissed
December 18, 2007
By NBC 13 Staff
E-mail

From a press release by the Aruban Public Prosecutor’s Office:

Since the release of all three suspects the Public Prosecutor’s Office has diligently considered and weighed all available evidence. It came to the opinion that the investigation did not bring about sufficient evidence to convince a Court of law that a crime of violence against Natalee Holloway has been committed, nor that her death has been caused by involuntary actions by either of the suspects. Neither was sufficient evidence gathered for sexual abuse.  The Public Prosecutor’s Office expects that if this case would be tried in court it would lead to an acquittal of all three suspects on these various charges. Given that expectation the Public Prosecutor could no longer press charges against all three.  It is contrary to the professional conduct to prosecute someone if the prosecutor himself expects an acquittal.

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2007-12-18-0004.html

I don't know that we disagree except that i am withholding judgment on Mos for the time being. History supports the theory that he will be crooked. But there are slivers of activity that indicate he is not. I don't want to not support someone who may be trying to help and then make the criticism become truth if that makes sense:)

PI ... considering what Hans Mos has put the parents of Natalee through in the past month ... I am not about to give this guy the benefit of the doubt at this point.

If Hans Mos has a master plan ... he certainly has a cruel way of going about it.  In November, 2007 ... Dave and Beth climbed aboard that emotional roller coaster once again ... hoping against all hope that maybe ... just maybe ... Aruba was going to come through ... hoping that justice for Natalee was finally going to prevail.  Less than one month later ...

PI ... we both have differing perspectives regarding this topic and ... that is OK. I will gladly eat crow if I am wrong. 

Janet

++++++++++++++++

Hans Mos
ABC NEWS
November 26, 2007

Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.
http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3912737


Hans Mos
On the Record with Greta
November 27, 2007

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Breaking news from Aruba, Joran van der Sloot ordered to stay behind bars for at least eight more days. Now, the Kalpoe brothers already got the same news last week. Now, all three suspects were re-arrested. Why? The prosecutor has now charged all three with voluntary manslaughter of Natalee Holloway.

MOS: And this decision to re-arrest these three suspects was a decision taken by 10 lawyers, by 10 lawyers sitting around a table (INAUDIBLE) whole afternoon, being presented the new material.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313168,00.html


John Q. Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
December 4, 2007

KELLY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY: I can say it with 99 percent.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

[Nut44x4]

Left to fill void of the missing;
High-profile cases leave lasting mark on communities
 

The small pile of stuffed animals, soaking wet and leaning against a gazebo, was the most visible trace of the frenzied activity that thrust Plainfield into the headlines nine months ago.

The gazebo, less than half a block from the home of Lisa Stebic, was where investigators convened, throngs of reporters and satellite trucks descended and prayers were offered for the missing mother of two. Now, there's still a tattered "Lisa we miss you" sign and a few candles strewn about. But except for the honking geese overhead, the street was eerily quiet.

The news media compound migrated 8 miles to the north to Bolingbrook, where it's all Peterson, all the time. Whether about Stacy, who disappeared in October, or her husband, Drew, a former cop who is a suspect in the case. But in ways large and small, life in the quiet Plainfield subdivision is forever changed.

High-decibel investigations can touch off waves of repercussions. Careers are made and broken, parks are created, relationships unravel and scholarships send students to college who may not otherwise have had the opportunity.

In Modesto, Calif., the back-to-back disappearances of Chandra Levy and Laci Peterson put the city on the media map.

"Before all that happened, the only thing we were known for was the Gallo winery," said Patty Burnett, a legal secretary. Burnett's mother lived near Laci Peterson, who vanished in 2002 and captivated America for the next two years -- until her husband, Scott, was found guilty of murdering his wife and unborn baby. "When you said you were from Modesto, for a long time, people would just roll their eyes."

A notorious missing-person case leaves an indelible mark on a neighborhood, a city -- even an island, as in the saga of Natalee Holloway, the Alabama high school student who vanished in 2005 during a class trip to Aruba. Instead of a glistening turquoise sea and pristine white beaches, the Caribbean entity with ties to the Netherlands was portrayed as dark and sinister. Alabama's governor urged a travel boycott, protesting what he called an inadequate investigation. The damage was done, and tourism -- 75 percent of the local economy -- was hit hard. Business rebounded in 2007, with visitors up almost 8 percent over the previous year, said the Aruba Tourism Authority.

http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDocument&orgId=574&topicId=100020825&docId=l:724991535&start=5

[MumInOhio]

Could this be the elusive A.B. that was interviewed by the police?  First they said  E.B., right? 

I am not sure, but I think it was  DePalma tours, the snorkeling  trip? 

Thanks...Sirensong...will have a look some more tomorrow. I have a list of student quotes, but don't recall seeing it there and about the links don't work anymore.

[Sam]

I wish we could find out who the two instructors/employees were on the boat.

Klaas where are you

Mum we do have that info somewhere. Klaas maybe able to find it in her archives. I know the captain goes by the name of Jethro. If I remember Klaas has the real name of him. She also knows the name of the boat. I have always found it odd that the boat left Aruba for somewhere in the Netherlands for a vacation that was planned the day after Natalee disappeared. Meaning Monday morning.