Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[private eye]

I think Karen Jansen might need to review this. She refused to speak with Beth and as far as I know never shared the case files with eith Beth or Dave
The injured party


186. An injured party may join as a party to criminal proceedings at first instance for a claim not exceeding 50,000 guilders. It is also necessary that the claim should not have been submitted to the civil courts and that it is of such a nature that it is suitable for decision in the criminal proceedings (art. 374, para. 1). A special feature of this arrangement is that under article 374, paragraph 2, the injured party may also join proceedings in respect of a criminal offence that is disposed of ad informandum. The joinder occurs at the trial (see art. 374, para. 2) and may not occur for the first time on appeal (art. 374, para. 4).


187. A victim may register as an injured party even during the preliminary investigation (art. 206, para. 1). As a consequence, an injured party who requires assistance and support as a result of the offence will receive the requisite counselling (art. 206, para. 4). In addition, injured parties can, under article 206, paragraph 3, arrange to be informed by the public prosecutor of his decision on whether or not to prosecute. If the case is prosecuted, the public prosecutor keeps the injured party informed of developments of importance to the latter in the further proceedings. If the case is not prosecuted, he informs the injured party of his right to complain about the non-prosecution (art. 209).


188. Even before the trial, namely from the time when the proceedings are instituted, both the injured party and his lawyer may inspect the case documents at the court registry on condition that this does not hamper the progress of the case (art. 376, para. 1). Under article 376, paragraph 4, the arrangements concerning the inspection of case documents (arts. 51-54) apply by analogy.


189. In order to support its claim, the injured party or his lawyer may submit documents (art. 377, para. 1), ask the presiding judge for leave to introduce witnesses and experts (art. 377, para. 2) and also put questions to each witness and expert, provided that they relate to the damage suffered or the amount of the damage (art. 378, para. 1). Finally, the injured party may explain (or have explained) his statement of claim after the public prosecutor has made his closing speech. This is also possible under article 379 after the public prosecutor has made a second speech in accordance with the article 353, paragraph 3. The judge rules on the claim of the injured party at the same time as giving judgement in the criminal case (art. 380, para. 1). The claim will be admissible only if the case ends in a conviction (art. 380, para. 2).



Article 14

190. The help to victims provided by the Public Prosecutions Service and the police must satisfy the following criteria:


(a) The victim must be dealt with correctly and where necessary on a personal basis;


(b) The victim should be supplied with information as quickly as possible, and this information should also be clear and relevant;


(c) The victim should be assisted in making maximum use of the right to claim compensation in the course of the criminal proceedings; this may be compensation for pecuniary and non-pecuniary damage.

[jackb]

PI ... considering what Hans Mos has put the parents of Natalee through in the past month ... I am not about to give this guy the benefit of the doubt at this point.

If Hans Mos has a master plan ... he certainly has a cruel way of going about it.  In November, 2007 ... Dave and Beth climbed aboard that emotional roller coaster once again ... hoping against all hope that maybe ... just maybe ... Aruba was going to come through ... hoping that justice for Natalee was finally going to prevail.  Less than one month later ...

PI ... we both have differing perspectives regarding this topic and ... that is OK. I will gladly eat crow if I am wrong. 

Janet

Yep yep yep. Remember how we gave Prosecutor Karin Janssen a free ticket for almost two years until we started finding out the real dirt on her. All she was doing was stalling for time, then she flees the country to safety in Holland like all guilty parties do.

Hans Mos is deja vu all over again.

Personally I do not think Hans Mos has put anyone through anything.  He had less than nothing to work with considering some of them are involved in the coverup and never went out of their way to assist him.  No telling what he has been told.  Hans Mos seems like an honorable man.      Jack Blue

[private eye]

I don't know why with the strategy that I think he used he didn't prevent the boys from having access to their attorney's and why he didn't with hold all information until he had interrogated them. Once the attorneys were apprised of the evidence, then the attorneys talked and the boys knew to just not talk that they had nothing. That is allowed according to the summary I posted.

[klaasend]

Deepak's June 29, 2005 Statement:

From BFN

PROCES-VERBAAL

We, Clyde Anthony BURKE and Marton Rolando GUMBS, respectively sergeant first class and head police-officer with the Korps Politie Aruba, first mentioned is part of detective unit district 2 and the latter with the Detective Cooperation Team, declare the following.

On Wednesday, June 29th 2005 at about 12.40 hours we, the reporting officers, interviewed the suspect Deepak.S. KALPOE, for further information.

Before the interview/interrogation started the suspect was informed that he was not obliged to answer the questions.

His interview went as follows;

"Although I am aware I am not obliged to answer your questions, I am willing to make a statement.

"On your question how much money I make with my job, I can say the following. I am not going to answer that question. I am of the opinion that my wage has nothing to do with this case. I am not going to answer questions about how much I make. I am angry. I have already agreed with my lawyer that I would no longer make any statements. I know I am innocent.

On the question what my lawyer had told me regarding not making statements, I can say the following. He had told me that I should just say the truth.

On your question whether or not I have a job, I can say the following. Yes, I have a job.

On your question where I work, I can say the following. I work at the Cyber Zone Internet café.

On your question whether I have a savings-account, I can say the following. I am not going to answer this question.

On your question with what bank I have a savings-account, I can say the following. I am also not going to give an answer to this question.

On your question if I have another source of income, I can say the following. I do not have another source of income.

On your question what my expenses are, I can say the following. I am not going to answer this question.

On your questions whether I was present at Joran's apartment when Joran told the story to Freddy, I can say the following. Yes, I was at the apartment that day. It was on the 31st of May in the evening hours.

On your question which of the stories Joran had told Freddy, I can say the following. I am not answering that question, because I already made a declaration/statement regarding this.

I am not going to declare anything until the office of the DA is going to end my restrictions, then I will cooperate and make a statement.

On your question if I can explain which route I had driven, on the night from May 30th 2005 to May 31st 2005, when were were called by Joran's father, I can say the following. I am not sure but I think I took the Juancho IRAUSQUIN Boulevard that runs in front of the big hotel, about where Tango's is I turned right on the road that runs in front of Mc Donalds till you get to the lights. Here I crossed the intersection into the road that leads through Palm Beach till I got to the lights at about where the police-station is in Noord. Here I turned right into the road Shaba-Tanki Flip till I got to the Femiins Bar, there I turned left onto the road leading through Montana till we got to Joran's house.

On your question whether I heard Natalee say in the car that her mother was Hitler's sister, that they owned a plantation and that they had black people as employees. I had only heard the word Hitler. The rest I did not hear. Joran told me later all the things the girl had said.

On your question if I called Joran in the night of May 30th, I can say the following. I am not going to answer this question, because I have already made a statement about this in another declaration.

On your question what Joran told me about his sport-shoes, I can say the following. Joran had told me that he left them on the beach.

On your question whether I thought it strange that Joran had left his sport-shoes on the beach, I can say the following. I did find it strange, but they were his shoes so not my problem.

On you question if I know the make of his shoes, I can say the following. I don't know the make. The only thing I know is that they were white sport-shoes.

On your question for whom I bought sport-shoes that I presumably bought at "The Athlete's Foot" , I can say the following. I did not buy sport-shoes. I had to buy these before the case of the missing girl come up. I would also like to know since when it is a crime to buy sport-shoes.

You are telling me that John Charles CROES has stated that I wrote while I was chatting with him that I had written that the girl had put her hands in/down my pants, I can say the following. I did this to frustrate/mess up the investigation. I wanted to direct the focus of the police on myself and Joran because we were afraid that Satish would get the details wrong with regard to the "Holiday Inn" story. I was almost certain that our telephone conversations were being taped and I was certain that my computer was being monitored too.

On your question what made me think that the police would be monitoring our phones, I can say the following. I thought this might happen earlier and Joran had said the same thing to me on Tuesday May 31st 2005*. The purpose of the chat traffic was to help the police and the Office of the DA with regard to the investigation so that they could see that I was indeed home in the night from Sunday to Monday. But I have understood that they do not have the chat traffic from that night but that they do have the one from Tuesday. I know the technical procedure, so if they have the one from Tuesday than they should be looking for the one from Sunday to Monday. If I had anything to hide than I would have never told the police about John Charles CROES. Because that just worsened the situation. Even though this never happened, about the girl putting her hands in/down my pants, I would like to know what kind of crime this is. I am again saying this never happened, but it is just my question to the district attorney.

You are saying to me that I don't want to say untrue things about Joran, but that I did help Joran come up with the story about the "Holiday Inn" like the guards issue and that Joran has been telling untrue things about me and my brother Satish and what I can say about that. The story about the "Holiday Inn" was before he started making up stories against me and my brother. I am only stating the truth.

On your question about what Joran told me after he left the girl on the beach, I can say the following. Joran told me that he had left the girl "passed out" on the beach.

On your question about what I understood "passed out" meant, I can say the following. I understood that the girl had fallen asleep. I did not ask him what he meant by "passed out". He had further told me that after this he walked home on his bare feet.

On your question if I could describe the clothes that Joran was wearing on May 29th 2005, I can say the following. I have already made a statement about what he wore.

On you question if I could seriously think and remember what clothes he wore, I can say the following. I cannot do this. They are the same clothes of which I spoke in my earlier statement.

***Note from translator:

* this part of the conversation I translated as literally as possible but as this is dutch, it is not always possible to view it completely literal. In English most likely this sentence would be written as:

I already thought earlier that Tuesday that our phone-calls would be getting monitored, even before Joran said that same thing to me on Tuesday May 31st 2005.

if one looks at the dutch and is not proficient in the language one might think that Deepak had already taken this possibility into consideration before it happened.***


On your question whether or not I would lend my car out to someone else, I can say the following. I myself and my brother are the only ones who drive my car..

On your question whether or not I can remember at what time we stopped playing at the "Raddison Hotel". I think that it was about 02.15, but I am not sure but this you will be able to determine with the help of the surveillance tape of the casino.

On your question at what time we arrived at the "Wyndham Hotel", I can say the following. I estimate that we arrived there about 02.20 hours..

On your question what Joran's mom meant by telling us that we should stay away from the "Marriot Hotel", I can say the following. With this she meant that the police was monitoring that area and that we were already in trouble. So avoid the area and that it was best to head home.

You are telling me that during my chat session with John Charles Croes I told him that I was trying to get in contact via the telephone with a friend of mine and what I meant by this. I meant Joran. I could not call him because I didn't have any more phone-minutes left and it is not possible to call a mobile phone from our home-phone. After this I received an SMS from Joran which said "Hey Swa I am home already, thanks for waiting".

On the question what Joran meant with the remark "thanks for waiting", I can say the following. With this he meant that he wanted to thank me for waiting online.

On your question whether me and Joran had agreed that I would wait until he was home, I can say the following. It was agreed that I would wait until he came online.

D.S.KALPOEAfter the suspect D.S. KALPOE had read his statement he stated that he would not sign it. He refused because he had reviewed his previous statements in the presence of his lawyer before signing it and that this hadn't happened with this interview/proces-verbaal.

Of this, we the reporting officers, on our oath as officers have written this proces-verbaal, closed and signed in Oranjestad on June 29th 2005.

The reporting officers.

Burke      Gumbs

[Tamikosmom]

I don't know why with the strategy that I think he used he didn't prevent the boys from having access to their attorney's and why he didn't with hold all information until he had interrogated them. Once the attorneys were apprised of the evidence, then the attorneys talked and the boys knew to just not talk that they had nothing. That is allowed according to the summary I posted.

I agree.

Considering Anita's words ... I have suspicions that the suspects were forewarned by their families prior to the apprehensions.  Why would the Kalpoe and VDS families be questioned ... none of the suspects are minors?

Janet

+++++++

Re-Arrests Bring Holloway Family "Hope"
ORANJESTAD, Aruba, Nov. 22, 2007
By Margaret Wever
The Associated Press

"What they want to do with Joran is to bring him to Aruba for a final reconstruction," Anita van der Sloot said by telephone from the family's home in Aruba.

She said her family and that of the Kalpoe brothers also had been questioned in recent weeks

"The questions they asked were so obvious, things like, 'Why did Joran leave his shoes on the beach,'" she said, referring to the place where her son said he kissed Holloway alone before her disappearance. "I think it's ridiculous after two-and-a-half years to be doing this."
 
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071122/NEWS/711220327/1001

[Magnolia]

Hat always had a way of seeing the obvious.
I found this old post about the security guards.



   RBN#35 06/29/05 Wed-Thursday Overnight.
« Reply #678 on: June 30, 2005, 02:21:01 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: "Hat"
So I think their justice system grew to protect against a quick acceptance of an obvious answer. I think that's why it is secretive. They are a reasonable society and seek justice.

I fear something else, the quality that led the authorities to fall so hard for Joran's story and seize the scapegoated innocents. Is that classcism and racism? Those several days and the lost chance for evidence, if that is true may have cost the elites dearly.
============================================================

Then from TtownMike:

Re scapegoats:  Good thang them folks didn't have a rope!

[klaasend]

Magnolia - yes, Hat was on top of it from the very beginning.

Sure wish we'd get some news from the search!

[Magnolia]

Magnolia - yes, Hat was on top of it from the very beginning.

Sure wish we'd get some news from the search!

That picture of the Persistence next to the huge Cruise Ship
reminds me of  The Little Engine That Could

[Lala'sMom]

Klaas
Do we have that cartoon somewhere for easy access?  TIA

[klaasend]

Klaas
Do we have that cartoon somewhere for easy access?  TIA

http://cartoons.diberardo.com/recent-political-cartoon/girl-murdered.php

[2NJSons_Mom]

I think I can, but I don't feel like uploading to photobucket..

http://www.thelittleenginethatcouldtour.com/

Just checking in before going to sleep....night, all.

[klaasend]

Lala's I gave it it's own thread too:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2507.0

[Magnolia]

Thank you 2NJ.
It is inspirational...I think.

[2NJSons_Mom]

  OH, the cartoon by Diberardo....

I was stuck on The Little Engine That Could...

CYA..

[klaasend]

I think I can, but I don't feel like uploading to photobucket..

http://www.thelittleenginethatcouldtour.com/

Just checking in before going to sleep....night, all.

Thanks 2NJ

[2NJSons_Mom]

Thank you 2NJ.
It is inspirational...I think.

It's a classic, Magnolia.

[texasmom]

nite 2NJ!

[texasmom]

I think I can, but I don't feel like uploading to photobucket..

http://www.thelittleenginethatcouldtour.com/

Just checking in before going to sleep....night, all.

Thanks 2NJ

Klaas, you need to put the little engine pic beside the shot of the Persistence/Cruise ship pic and post it for Kyle and Crew when you have time.  I think they would love it.  I'd do it if I could...but you're so much better at those things. TIA

[klaasend]

EXCLUSIVE! NATALEE MOM'S HORROR
By DAVID WRIGHT

Natalee Holloway's mother confronted her daughter's suspected killer, Joran van der Sloot, just minutes after he is believed to have dumped the honor student's body at sea.

And when a frantic Beth Twitty begged a policeman to search the trunk of his pal Deepak Kalpoe's car, the cop refused — passing up an opportunity to detect clues that could have cracked the case right then and there.

Detectives in Aruba, where Natalee vanished on May 30, have been investigating this explosive new theory.

The line of inquiry was fueled by yet another lie told by 18-year-old Joran, the prime suspect in the case, The National Enquirer has discovered.

On September 1, a judge ordered Joran to be released from jail after being held for questioning since June 9. He still remains a suspect.

Beth Twitty's drama began when she and her husband Jug flew to Aruba after learning that Natalee, 18, had failed to make the flight home with the rest of her graduating class from Mountain Brook High School, Ala.

By the early hours of May 31, Beth had convinced a reluctant cop to help. He went with her to the Holiday Inn where Natalee and her classmates had stayed. There, they met a young man who brought up the names of Joran and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe — all later arrested on suspicion of rape and murder.

Retired U.S. Secret Service agent Arthur Wood, who has been working with Aruban investigators, said: "The kid agreed to lead the Twittys and the officer to Joran's house. They got there around 3 am on May 31.

"Joran's father Paulus came out and the policeman told him that the Americans were searching for their missing daughter, who'd last been seen leaving a nightclub with Joran around 1 am the previous morning.

"Paulus said he'd get Joran. Then he came back and said, 'He's not here.' He called Joran's cell phone and after speaking to him said, 'He says he's at the Wyndham hotel playing poker.'

"They all headed for the Wyndham. But there was no sign of Joran in the casino. Since then I've questioned just about everyone at the hotel, and there is no indication Joran was ever there on the 31st.

"Paulus called Joran again, then told everyone, 'He's home now.' It was 4 am. The group went back to the house and found Joran and Deepak at the gate next to Deepak's Honda — the car in which Beth knew Natalee had left the nightclub the night before.

"Beth demanded: 'Where's my daughter?' Joran replied in a surly voice: 'I dropped her at the Holiday Inn. What do you want me to do?'

"Beth then begged the boys to open the trunk of the car and let the policeman search it. Deepak didn't respond — and the policeman wouldn't make him do it. We'll never know what clues police might have found inside the car or the trunk because the Honda wasn't seized for several days.

"The belief is growing that Joran and Deepak may have just been coming back from getting rid of Natalee's body when Beth arrived at the house the second time.

"The theory is that they didn't have time to do it on the 30th — they needed someone with a boat, and it took them a day to arrange it. When Beth was at Joran's house the first time and was told he wasn't there, he may well have been disposing of her daughter's body just a few miles away."

The latest police theory also accounts for a fisherman's hut being broken into on the beach near where the three suspects say they last saw Natalee. The only items missing were a knife and some rope.

Later the same day, another fisherman reported that one of his large wire mesh fish traps had been stolen — leading investigators to believe that it may have been weighted down and used as a "casket" for Natalee's body.

Said Wood: "It would have been very easy to hide her body in the dunes for 24 hours. And until Natalee's mom arrived in Aruba, no one was looking for her."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Published on: 09/09/2005

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63323#

[klaasend]

For Kyle and the Persistence crew: