Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[Observer]

Is that blood on her feet? How did she die again? Drowning? Body put in a dirty pick up truck? 

[Bearlyhere]

*******...Did you used to have a different name or am I imagining things?

[Observer]

*******...Did you used to have a different name or am I imagining things?

I have always used one name.

[Bearlyhere]

*******...Did you used to have a different name or am I imagining things?

I have always used one name.

Oh.  I thought your monkey looked familiar, that's all.

[Bearlyhere]

Is that blood on her feet? How did she die again? Drowning? Body put in a dirty pick up truck? 

I don't know this one.  That sure looks like blood on her feet.

[Observer]

Is that blood on her feet? How did she die again? Drowning? Body put in a dirty pick up truck? 

I don't know this one.  That sure looks like blood on her feet.

Hmmm..It appears the toes could have cuts on them. I guess its possible she stepped on coral when she drowned. When they pulled her out it dried on her feet? Is that possible?

[Observer]

The article says it was tourist from Bulgaria..Probably a man(Mascuilino) died in a fatal accident.

[Bearlyhere]

Is that blood on her feet? How did she die again? Drowning? Body put in a dirty pick up truck? 

I don't know this one.  That sure looks like blood on her feet.

Hmmm..It appears the toes could have cuts on them. I guess its possible she stepped on coral when she drowned. When they pulled her out it dried on her feet? Is that possible?

Either that or something was biting at her feet.     It wouldn't bleed forcefully if the heart wasn't beating. 

[IBE]

Hello everyone. I have been trying to think of something effective that can be done to help Beth keep the pressure on Aruba. Does anyone think this might be an effective tool?

If we had a good letter writer and an attorney to review the letter to assess liability, I wonder how effective it would be to write a letter to the major newspapers of each state basically to tell of Beth's treatment, the boycott, etc

My suggestion would be to turn the tables on Aruba and get a dream team and go to the top & cc Interpol:


At the direction of the President or the Attorney General, the FBI may use its statutory authority to investigate and arrest individuals for violating United States law, even if the FBI’s actions contravene customary international law. The President, acting through the Attorney General, has the inherent constitutional authority to deploy the FBI to investigate and arrest individuals for violating United States law, even if those actions contravene customary international law. Extraterritorial law enforcement activities that are authorized by domestic law are not barred even if they contravene unexecuted treaties or treaty provisions, such as Article 2(4) of the
United Nations Charter. An arrest that is inconsistent with international or foreign law does not violate the Fourth Amendment.

And I would include in that letter:

We read in Extracts of the Espionage and Sabotage Acts and other related federal criminal statutes: U.S. CODE, SECTION 1001, states that "Whoever, in any mater within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States knowingly and willfully falsifies, conceals or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact, or makes any false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or representations, or makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or entry, shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years or both


Now view this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymSWgZm6ivo

Dompig admits there was sexual assault to charge Joran, & Kalpoes and they should be charged, BUT they changed the investigation!
p. 193 (Beth's book) - November 2, 2005 Dompig on MSNBC - Rita Cosby show stated "They are gulty as hell."
Then if you read his various accusations he has accused Beth for interfering in the investigation to place blame on her, he has made accusations that Natalee bought drugs, he has made accusations that Natalee died of an overdose,
he has made accusations that Natalee was buried in the sea, that she ran away, that Beth made her disappear to collect insurance money. He intentionally withheld Texas Equu Search & FBI divers from searches and he has made accusations that the answers are in the United States with the Mountain Brook teens. When the truth is it was Dompig, Dennis Jacobs, Karin Janssen, Jan van der Straaten and unscrupulous judges that allowed the investigation to turn into a circus and crime that the world is still watching and wondering why the DUTCH are so flagrantly standing by and allowing the illegal conduct of the government and judiciary to prolificate. While tourism dollars are sinking Aruba's economy and their only hope is to make deals with illegal entities to keep Aruba afloat.

In addition file not only defamation lawsuits against Dompig, but also American's Julia Renfro and Charles Croes for their part in the cover-up with false and malicious intent to willfully cover-up and slander Beth Holloway and her daughter Natalee Holloway, but also under the Extracts of the Espionage and Sabotage Acts  - which is basically treason act of the U.S. Code.


Pierce the Evil and bring Justice for Natalee.

Well, that is what I would do.

ribbit

Great! Get this going now before we have a new President, new Atty. Gen. and new Secty. of State a year from now, who may or may not be inclined to get involved.

Someone going out of office has no reason not to get involved IMO and especially Ms. Rice who is very familiar with the delegations from Aruba and Beth Holloway.

[IBE]

Again...I need help from some monkey...what time did it say that Natalee entered the casino?  What time did Joran come in?  What time was Paulus sitting at the table next to Natalee...I know...it isn't proven that it's him...just humor me. TIA

The timestamp is exactly 8:14 PM when the video was made of Jorna,PVDS and Natalee at the BJ table

Is there a timestamp when Natalee entered the casino?  Do we have that or is what I am talking about after her return trip from the bathroom or something?

Not too many days ago somebody posted that and discovered "proof" that the time on a photo had been changed. Can you search the last months posts?

I don't recall that discussion,was it on the front page? Looking back at the few seconds of footage they released it is just weird that Natalee is pointing in Joran's direction and in the same footage the other MB student is pointing at PVDS. You can clearly see the timestamp on this video. More than 2 hours after Paulus said he left the casino.

Superior Court
January, 2007

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court).  The taped information and his declaration that  he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”

Who was Joran's/Paulus's friend (Jorans age and part of the pimps, maybe?) whose father owned the security camera company for the casinos and hotels? Who has the knowledge to do time stamp changing? Also was this the same father that wouldn't let his son give a statement but came in for him instead?

Is Dompig now ahead of the camera company for the casinos./hotels now on Aruba? Seems to the "victory" goes the spoils all around Aruba.

Of course this goes along with the rumors of Joran/Paulus, K2 attempting to change the times of cell phones and computers.

Time only stands still for Natalee now. J4N



Who has access to these tapes to change the time stamp to this extent? Posner? the  company who does the surveillance in the casinos? Someone had to order it changed or it was changed without Posner knowing it?

[IBE]

Happy New Year to all Monkeys and all visitors here! and to the crew of the ship plus all good people on Aruba.

To bad the bad ones in Aruba and in Holland didn't get a chunck of coal and a cactus in their shoe for Christmas. That also includes those in the US who know they should have done differently also.

IMO  4 places to "have no body, no case"
Cremation (nothing left), hiding in a cript (could be found later and DNA left), at sea (could be found later and DNA left) or sold into human trafficking (could be found later, maybe)

PS... I was looking for locations of Salvation Army Kettles at Christmas so went on their site. Didn't find any list of locations but found that the Salvation Army is very active in fighting and helping those who are victims of Human Trafficking.

I never knew they had programs in that area.

Since I couldn't find a kettle this year, have decided to look into being a kettle ringer at Christmas 2008... at least I will know where there is one

Wonder if you go into training to get the ring and rhythm just right

They do have online kettles for donations; but thought you'd be interested in their efforts to stop Human Trafficking.

[IBE]

Hi Mum in Ohio... you must be up late or getting up for work. Have a nice day. Am off to find the links to the Salvation Army sites I was talking about and to look to see if I have a Valentine avatar I miss the people in the Mid-west but I live in a city out here that is like the Mid-west with So.CA weather.

Reminds me.. must re-org. my earthquake stuff. 1994 was the last big on and it was in Jan. just as I was moving into my home after a home fire.. took it off the foundation a little... State Farm isn't my favorite company. 7 yrs of stuff with them!

Great persistence training for hanging in for Natalee!

[MumInOhio]

Good Morning Ibe... early riser here...woke up to no power and had to fumble around for candles! Was reading to go get the camping stove and make coffee!


I posted this in the Shango/Simian thread yesterday.

I was remembering who COLUMBO thought “Dirty Hand’ was and ‘Willem’ could have been his boss. When I was reading  Shango and Simian this morning, I tried to work out where he fits. It’s somewhere, as you don’t just sell your house for no reason.  That Visibility site is the same as it was when I first visited it ages ago, so maybe for some reason he needed another house. They have access to a lot of security info from the hotels, and I remember reading about rooms with cameras in them, just one more thing to think about.LOL

Sister is a police officer. Their house was listed for sale as of 12/14/2007.(Yellow…just like the Gottenbos)

CROMVOIRT, Geoffry van - 19 years old, resident of Aruba, who was detained by ALE on 4-15-2006 in an unannounced connection to the Natalee Holloway case. He is the son of the owner of an island security company that supplies equipment and personnel to beach patrol and hotels.  For more information see Who’s Who – Victim, Suspects, Witnesses & Families.

CROMVOIRT, Wilhemus “Willem” Bernadus Henricus Papaya van – owner & operator of VCB Security.  Father of Geoffrey van Cromvoirt. There is some question as to whether the Cromvoirt’s moved to the Netherlands.  Resided at 14D, Paradera, Aruba.

[MumInOhio]

LOL...need coffee...ready not reading, though I was...Lala's, you posted last week about arrests on the 11th. What made me think they were brothers? Will go find it!

[MumInOhio]

From Cain’s 302:

Saturday June 28th.

From an indoor bar at the Holiday Inn, CAIN from a distance noticed Holloway talking to a local man, for about thirty (30) minutes.

From Watson’s 302…paraphrased:

Watson was at the beach with Natalee during the afternoon. Three MB girls waved to a group of individuals at the beach of the adjacent resort. These girls had met the girls the previous day on a ‘Tattoo’ cruise. Holloway did not go as she went snorkeling, but was intrigued with what the others said. Watson would not have been surprised if Natalee had met  the individuals from the adjacent resort sometime Sunday afternoon.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/index.htm



Thanks for the link… Buckeye

[private eye]

What a bunch of BS! This whole "Dutch" Investiagtion stinks!!!!!

That's putting it mildly *******! It is a complete and total joke....

Officials responsible for investigating offences


98. Under the Code of Criminal Procedure (art. 184) the persons charged with investigating offences are police officers and special police officers, insofar as the latter have been appointed by or on behalf of the Minister of Justice. Others persons charged with investigating offences are those who have been designated in special statutory regulations as being responsible for enforcing the provisions of the regulations, for ensuring their observance or for investigating the offences defined in them (art. 185). Persons who are competent to investigate are the procurators general, the public prosecutors and the local police chiefs. If they exercise this power, they are designated as investigating officials for the purposes of the Code of Criminal Procedure (art. 1). The change in the situation whereby the public prosecutor is no longer charged with investigating but is merely competent to investigate reflects the fact that investigations are the specific responsibility of the criminal investigations department of the police.


99. The public prosecutor or Chief Public Prosecutor supervises the investigation and may issue orders to persons charged with investigating or competent to investigate offences (art. 183, para. 1). As regards general supervision, however, the Chief Public Prosecutor is bound by any instructions given by the Procurator General (art. 4, para. 2, Judiciary Organization Ordinance; see also art. 14, Code of Criminal Procedure). This means that the Procurator General, as head of the Public Prosecutions Service, can issue guidelines concerning investigations and sentencing demands. Only on appeal can the Procurator General give direct instructions for a further investigation (art. 183, para. 3). The public prosecutor has control of the entire preparatory investigation, subject to the provisions in the new Code of Criminal Procedure regarding the intervention of the examining magistrate (art. 183, para. 2).

[private eye]

Interresting, Glenda/Renfro has crawled out from under her rock to post at RU tonight.  Wonder what's got her motivated to post?  Of course, she's posting crap blaming anything thay might have happened to Natalee on Beth for allowing her to go to a location where drinking was legal for 18yr olds. 

                    A travel advisory from someone in the know from Aruba.
So the very in the know, well educated, professional editor of a major publication in Aruba, who is married or lives with an Arubian, who was born and raised a US citizen, has now publicly announced to the world that it is not safe for young teens/adults to travel to Aruba absent parental supervision and recommended that no schools organize trips to Aruba, even with chaperone's, for their students or just graduated students. A travel advisory from someone in the know from Aruba. I wonder if she is considering taking a job with Safe Travels or is she just performing a much needed public service to protect the young people of the US from the dangers of Aruba. She certainly doesn't offer any apology, concern, or compassion about the US victims in Aruba though, she only seems to be incredulous that the US is stupid enough to trust their young in Aruba, and if they do and something happens to them, they simply are getting what they deserve.

[MumInOhio]

From Joran's 6/9 PV:

After that the group of girls walked to the Sportsbar. In the Sportsbar I also saw to two acquaintances who were watching baseball. I greeted my two acquaintances and told them that I was doing fine too and that I would be going to "Carlos & Charlies" that night. My two acquaintances are named "Luis" and "Joshua". I regularly meet them at Carlos & Charlies. The last name of Luis is "BETANCOURT". I do not know the last name of Joshua. Luis BETANCOURT is a Venezuelan and according to me Joshua is Colombian but I don't know that for sure. After that I walked next to the group of girls and they said to me that I....When I called my father it was approximately 23.00 hours. I told my father that I was ready and if he could come and pick me up at "Mc Donalds". After that I had called my friend "Jaime CARASQUILLA" on his mobile phone. I do not know his phone number from memory but I have programmed his mobile phone number in the memory of my mobile phone under the name "Beto". I asked Beto what he was doing and whether he wanted to accompany me in going to Carlos & Charlies. Beto answered me that he was doing nothing but that he could not accompany me to Carlos & Charlies because he had to go to work the next day. Beto works with a transport company but I do not know the name of that company. After that I called Deepak KALPOE and asked him what he was doing and if he wanted to come with me to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak told me he was closing up "Inex" and that he would accompany me to Carlos & Charlies because he didn't have to go to work the next day.

To your question with whom I regularly go to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I regularly go there with "Freddy ZEDAN" and "Jaime CARASQUIA". Freddy is a Venezuelan and Jaime is a Columbian. The boy named "Koen GOTENBOS" also regularly goes out with us. The names of my three friends are in the memory of my mobile phone. Freddy is under the name "Fefi" and Koen under the name "Cul".


Beto....Betancourt...Venezualian...Columbian
THIS IS PURE GARBAGE...NO WAY...TOO MUCH COINCIDENCE...JORAN JUST CHANGED THEIR NAMES AND SWITCHED WHICH COUNTRY THEY WERE FROM!

[MumInOhio]

Deepak 6/11 PV...this is where he says Joran bought a friend a drink!

We left Joran's place between 00:15 and 00:20 hours for "Carlos & Charlies". At that time my brother was driving. I was in the front seat and Joran was in the back. We arrived at "Carlos & Charlies" at approximately 00:30. My brother had parked the car on the parking lot behind "Carlos & Charlie's". We then walked towards "Carlos & Charlies". In front of "Carlos & Charlie's there was a group of girls. Joran noticed that these girls were also part of the group he met at the casino. Joran greeted the girls and then we walked into "Carlos & Charlie's. When we got inside we walked to the bar. At the bar Joran talked to a boy I know by face only. He had bought a drink for him and the boy. The drink is called "Carribean Motherfucker".

To your question as to what kind of drink that is, I can say the following. This drink is beer with a shot of "151" vodka in a small glass inside the glass of beer. Joran had asked us if we wanted one too, we hadn't taken him up on his offer. Then he bought us three "Yards" with whisky coke. He paid for the drinks.

[MumInOhio]

Is this when Anita saw the underwear? This was June 8th and they were arrested 4 hours later...more coincidence.


From Deepak’s 6/10 PV

To your question as to when I last was in Joran's place the last time, I can state the following. I went to his place Wednesday June 8th, at approximately 22.45 hours, together with my brother Satish.

To your question as to what the purpose of this visit was, I can state the following. First of all because we had no power at our house, and secondly because Joran wanted to see the video of my brother's school trip.
To your question as to who was at the house, I can state the following. His parents were at the house and his little brother.

To your question as to how late we stayed there, I can state the following. We stayed there until about 02.00 hours in the morning.


Is the little brother Val...why was he not questioned until just before the last arrests?