Lively Case Discussion #515 8/21 - 8/24/2006

[klaasend]

Grande - this was posted on the front page by Arubagirl on June 11, 2005:

According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

[Kimmy53]

OHHHH!  It is soo good to see Katz here!  Hiya girl!!! I am so glad your surgery went so well!  Please don't over do it...  I've missed you here (I won't scold you for peaking in last p.m. )

Ozzies - good to see you back to - you have indeed been missed.  BTW - I never could figure out what the little monkey in your avatar was hanging over until someone mentioned the playpen a few posts back...  

[KatzHome]

Good night again, Monkeys ~ I'm still a bit groggy from the crap I was taking these last two days to make me sleep...  Even 4 cups of coffee hasn't helped much...  And I need to be awake later because my Nephew and his friends are coming to visit for a little while...

[KatzHome]

OHHHH!  It is soo good to see Katz here!  Hiya girl!!! I am so glad your surgery went so well!  Please don't over do it...  I've missed you here (I won't scold you for peaking in last p.m. )

Ozzies - good to see you back to - you have indeed been missed.  BTW - I never could figure out what the little monkey in your avatar was hanging over until someone mentioned the playpen a few posts back...  

{{{snuggles}}}  Kimmy!  I love you!  I guess you saw my post about going back in for a nap ~ I gotta get that crap out of my system...  And yeah, my sister wouldn't let my Nephew and his friends come visit yesterday or the day before ~ because she wanted me to rest ~ and she told him that I didn't need those lunatics at the house keeping me awake!   He's really a great kid ~ he'll be 21 this Christmas Eve...  And his girlfriend called me this morning from Pennsylvania...  She'll be back in Vegas in September ~ she's moving here...  There's a lot of jobs for CIA (Culinary Institute) graduates here...  good jobs...

[Grande]

Grande - this was posted on the front page by Arubagirl on June 11, 2005:

According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

DEEPAK 6/11/2005 STATEMENT and ADDENDUM
“I had been driving on, in the direction of Arashi. When I arrived at Arashi I stopped the car on the asphalted section. I got out because I had to take a pee”

http://i8.tinypic.com/25h3ea0.jpg This is the ONLY asphalted area on the North west side of the island.
http://i8.tinypic.com/25h1oy0.jpg
http://i8.tinypic.com/25h1qhy.jpg

[KatzHome]

Grande - this was posted on the front page by Arubagirl on June 11, 2005:

According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

Klaas ~ maybe you're talking about a different time ~ and I'm sorry if I got this one confused ~ but wasn't the family actually brought down to identify a body ~ and when they got there, they were told, oopsie...  nevermind, we made a mistake...

Did that really happen...  or is it the stuff of Aruba Legends of Infamy?

[klaasend]

Grande - this was posted on the front page by Arubagirl on June 11, 2005:

According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

DEEPAK 6/11/2005 STATEMENT and ADDENDUM
“I had been driving on, in the direction of Arashi. When I arrived at Arashi I stopped the car on the asphalted section. I got out because I had to take a pee”

http://i8.tinypic.com/25h3ea0.jpg This is the ONLY asphalted area on the North west side of the island.
http://i8.tinypic.com/25h1oy0.jpg
http://i8.tinypic.com/25h1qhy.jpg

Yep, and it is in the Arashi Beach area:

[klaasend]

Grande - this was posted on the front page by Arubagirl on June 11, 2005:

According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

Klaas ~ maybe you're talking about a different time ~ and I'm sorry if I got this one confused ~ but wasn't the family actually brought down to identify a body ~ and when they got there, they were told, oopsie...  nevermind, we made a mistake...

Did that really happen...  or is it the stuff of Aruba Legends of Infamy?

Yes, but I don't believe it was on June 11th.  I think that happened later.

[Grande]

Grande - this was posted on the front page by Arubagirl on June 11, 2005:

According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

Klaas ~ maybe you're talking about a different time ~ and I'm sorry if I got this one confused ~ but wasn't the family actually brought down to identify a body ~ and when they got there, they were told, oopsie...  nevermind, we made a mistake...

Did that really happen...  or is it the stuff of Aruba Legends of Infamy?

Yes, but I don't believe it was on June 11th.  I think that happened later.

The family was told on June 10th @ appx. 9pm.  They were seen in the lobby the following morning prior to Deepak's 12.00 statement.  The news broke @ appx. 2:10 pm that there had been a confession.  This was shortly after Deepak's June 11th statement.   Boy would I like to see Joran's June 11th statements.

[Shizaru]

This is the timeline for 5:00-8:15 period on 5/30:

7:15 pm: Joran leaves the Raquet Club on foot for the Wyndham Hotel. leaving his tennis gear behind in a bag.  On the way he stops at the Marriott beach to look for his shoes (J 6/14)

7:25 pm:  Deepak calls Joran to ask him how he is.  Joran says he is with Guido Wever in the casino at the Wyndham.  Deepak says he will call him back (Phone records document, D 6/11, 6/16)

7:34-7:37 pm: Paulus vists several stock-related sites (computer records document)

7:37 pm: Paulus google image searches for "alcohol", "beer" and "drugs".   Visits sites containing information on alcohol and drugs, the dangers of these for young people, and a lawyer's office. The sites are visited only briefly (computer records document).

7:45: Joran arrives at Aruba Grant Hotel & Casino (J 6/14)

8:00 pm: Joran walks to Wyndham, meets Andre there (J 6/14)

Thanks Shizaru for compiling this.
 Several thoughts on this:
1) It takes only a half hour for Joran to walk from the Racquet CLub to the Aruba Grand Hotel.  Looking at the map below, it is a good bit past the Holiday Inn.  Yet he makes it there in a half hour even with with stopping to look for his shoes on the Marriott Beach or by the huts.

2) It takes him approx 40 minutes to walk from the huts to home in the middle of the night, barefoot.

3) Yet it appears to me he has more distance to cover the 2nd night PLUS he is walking in/on the sand.

4) I remember reading it would take Natalee about 1/2 hour to walk from the huts to the Holiday Inn via the beach.

I think Joran's home is south of the Aruba Grand,  so it's less than 2 miles from the Raquet Club to Aruba Grand, about a 30 minute walk.   Also we don't know for sure what time Joran actully left the RC, could have been 7:00, not 7:15 in which case he could spend 10 minutes on the Marriott beach and still make it to the Grand on foot by 7:45.

The HI is about 1000 meters (1/2 mile) south of the FH, at average walking speed of 3 mph that's about a 10 minute walk.

[Kimmy53]

OHHHH!  It is soo good to see Katz here!  Hiya girl!!! I am so glad your surgery went so well!  Please don't over do it...  I've missed you here (I won't scold you for peaking in last p.m. )

Ozzies - good to see you back to - you have indeed been missed.  BTW - I never could figure out what the little monkey in your avatar was hanging over until someone mentioned the playpen a few posts back...  

{{{snuggles}}}  Kimmy!  I love you!  I guess you saw my post about going back in for a nap ~ I gotta get that crap out of my system...  And yeah, my sister wouldn't let my Nephew and his friends come visit yesterday or the day before ~ because she wanted me to rest ~ and she told him that I didn't need those lunatics at the house keeping me awake!   He's really a great kid ~ he'll be 21 this Christmas Eve...  And his girlfriend called me this morning from Pennsylvania...  She'll be back in Vegas in September ~ she's moving here...  There's a lot of jobs for CIA (Culinary Institute) graduates here...  good jobs...

I love being around young folks!!  I have neices & nephews close to the same age, and I get such a kick being around them - mine are really good kids too (not to brag - well yes I am bragging!)

I have a dear friend I grew up with who went to Chef's school in Charleston.  He is a very sucessful pastry chef now.  I always wondered if I would like being a chef...I enjoy cooking - but at leisure - Having it for a job might take the fun out of it for me.

[Grande]

This is the timeline for 5:00-8:15 period on 5/30:

7:15 pm: Joran leaves the Raquet Club on foot for the Wyndham Hotel. leaving his tennis gear behind in a bag.  On the way he stops at the Marriott beach to look for his shoes (J 6/14)

7:25 pm:  Deepak calls Joran to ask him how he is.  Joran says he is with Guido Wever in the casino at the Wyndham.  Deepak says he will call him back (Phone records document, D 6/11, 6/16)

7:34-7:37 pm: Paulus vists several stock-related sites (computer records document)

7:37 pm: Paulus google image searches for "alcohol", "beer" and "drugs".   Visits sites containing information on alcohol and drugs, the dangers of these for young people, and a lawyer's office. The sites are visited only briefly (computer records document).

7:45: Joran arrives at Aruba Grant Hotel & Casino (J 6/14)

8:00 pm: Joran walks to Wyndham, meets Andre there (J 6/14)

Thanks Shizaru for compiling this.
 Several thoughts on this:
1) It takes only a half hour for Joran to walk from the Racquet CLub to the Aruba Grand Hotel.  Looking at the map below, it is a good bit past the Holiday Inn.  Yet he makes it there in a half hour even with with stopping to look for his shoes on the Marriott Beach or by the huts.

2) It takes him approx 40 minutes to walk from the huts to home in the middle of the night, barefoot.

3) Yet it appears to me he has more distance to cover the 2nd night PLUS he is walking in/on the sand.

4) I remember reading it would take Natalee about 1/2 hour to walk from the huts to the Holiday Inn via the beach.

I think Joran's home is south of the Aruba Grand,  so it's less than 2 miles from the Raquet Club to Aruba Grand, about a 30 minute walk.   Also we don't know for sure what time Joran actully left the RC, could have been 7:00, not 7:15 in which case he could spend 10 minutes on the Marriott beach and still make it to the Grand on foot by 7:45.

The HI is about 1000 meters (1/2 mile) south of the FH, at average walking speed of 3 mph that's about a 10 minute walk.

http://i8.tinypic.com/257lxt0.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/24pxfa0.jpg

[Grande]

http://i8.tinypic.com/25hcr2q.jpg Arashi Beach photo

[klaasend]

http://i8.tinypic.com/25hcr2q.jpg Arashi Beach photo

Looks like you can see that asphalt area in the photo above too.

[Grande]

http://i8.tinypic.com/25hcr2q.jpg Arashi Beach photo

Looks like you can see that asphalt area in the photo above too.

Exactly...

Arashi, Boca Catalina, Malmok Beaches:
"It's kind of an off-road and is not lighted as far as I know: so, very dark back there. There's also a small part that branches off right about Boca Catalina, a dead end....back there anything can happen. There are some frequently visited 'hidden beaches' back there, tell you the truth, I wouldn't go there at night by myself, let alone with 3 guys. But it happens! By other kids."

It has also been said you can not hear anything back there due to the wind.

[mrs. red]

Grande - this was posted on the front page by Arubagirl on June 11, 2005:

According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

Klaas ~ maybe you're talking about a different time ~ and I'm sorry if I got this one confused ~ but wasn't the family actually brought down to identify a body ~ and when they got there, they were told, oopsie...  nevermind, we made a mistake...

Did that really happen...  or is it the stuff of Aruba Legends of Infamy?

NO that was what Julia did to the family...

[klaasend]

Grande - this was posted on the front page by Arubagirl on June 11, 2005:

According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

Klaas ~ maybe you're talking about a different time ~ and I'm sorry if I got this one confused ~ but wasn't the family actually brought down to identify a body ~ and when they got there, they were told, oopsie...  nevermind, we made a mistake...

Did that really happen...  or is it the stuff of Aruba Legends of Infamy?

NO that was what Julia did to the family...

Yes, and I believe that was on June 13th.  That was the day Julia told Beth and Jug Natalee's body was at the courthouse.

[Kimmy53]

http://i8.tinypic.com/25hcr2q.jpg Arashi Beach photo

Looks like you can see that asphalt area in the photo above too.

Exactly...

Arashi, Boca Catalina, Malmok Beaches:
"It's kind of an off-road and is not lighted as far as I know: so, very dark back there. There's also a small part that branches off right about Boca Catalina, a dead end....back there anything can happen. There are some frequently visited 'hidden beaches' back there, tell you the truth, I wouldn't go there at night by myself, let alone with 3 guys. But it happens! By other kids."

It has also been said you can not hear anything back there due to the wind.

This is something those that live on the island would be VERY familiar with.

[sharon]

Leslie  - thanks and that completely goes to what Beth said... she thought she was getting in a taxi...

...With the car running and a person behind the wheel who starts driving when Joran tells him to (in a foreign language).  That is why Deepak had to get to the car before the rest of them did. He did not back the car up so the front of the car was visible or cruise around to the front door of C&Cs.

I can see the sign in front of the passenger windshield on the first taxi --  No way to see that unless you are watching the taxi pull up. I think I see a taxi sign on top of the second. I can't tell on the rest.

I have never doubted that Natalee could have thought it was a taxi. I know when I've traveled -- if the car is in the 'taxi' line, I assume it's a taxi. Not all countries mark the taxis as clearly as the US.

But, that's why I think they're making up the story about PARKING IN THE BACK.

By saying that Joran took Natalee to the car in a parking lot behind the establishment -- they are trying to prove that Natalee could not have thought it a taxi.

They had WAY TOO MUCH TIME TO MAKE UP ALL THEIR LIES
jmo

.

[Grande]

http://i8.tinypic.com/25hcr2q.jpg Arashi Beach photo

Looks like you can see that asphalt area in the photo above too.

Exactly...

Arashi, Boca Catalina, Malmok Beaches:
"It's kind of an off-road and is not lighted as far as I know: so, very dark back there. There's also a small part that branches off right about Boca Catalina, a dead end....back there anything can happen. There are some frequently visited 'hidden beaches' back there, tell you the truth, I wouldn't go there at night by myself, let alone with 3 guys. But it happens! By other kids."

It has also been said you can not hear anything back there due to the wind.

This is something those that live on the island would be VERY familiar with.

http://i8.tinypic.com/25hdbhz.jpg