Natalee Case Discussion #711 1/08 - 1/12/08

[private eye]

The more they blabber.......the more they look like asses and look even more guilty each and every time they open their mouths.
Keep talkin' Sloots......keep talkin' 

She definitely has the audiences attention. They are waiting to hear this explanation.

[Nut44x4]

Oprah made a huge mistake letting people post comments.....she has to be over run w/ this crap...
From RU>
gwen wrote:
Comment from Oprah.com.............

Reply 3. Re: Beth Holloway and Newsmaker Follow-Ups Jan 11, 2008 8:00 PM

First of all I would like to say that I don't like Joran van der Sloot. Even if he's not involved, which I highly doubt, he's arrogant when he should be humble. In interviews he tends to have a smug grin on his face. But to be honest, I don't like Beth Holloway either. Please before you make a judgement, let me clarify.

I can not imagine the pain she must endure. I mean, if my child would go missing, I would be beside myself. The reason I don't like her is the fact that she's not telling the truth. She painted her daughter as an All American Girl, who never misbehaved, did good at school and had a good relationship with her parents. The truth is, is that Natalee went to rehab just shortly before she went to Aruba. She ran away from home two times and had constant fights with her mother and stepfather. An Aruban taxidriver testified that she had Jug Twitty and a friend in her car and that they told her Natalee had been to rehab. Her friends and several island inhabitants testified to the police that she was doing belly shots with several guys in the bar. Even her friends told her to take it slow and not drink so much. She was seen smoking weed on the beach. Natalee was not the innocent little girl as her mother portrayed her to be. Of course I understand that she wants to protect her daughter, but frustrating police investigation by telling lies is unacceptable to me.

Furthermore, I dare you to find people on Aruba that still have contact with Beth on a friendly basis. The truth is, there aren't any. Beth Holloway has managed to insult almost every person that tried to help her. On Aruba, the Holloways have left a trail of people who were initially goodwilling towards them and helpfull but later broke off any contact. For instance, several Americans that live on the island, who helped her from the beginning, don't have any contact with her anymore. They just had enough of her antics. People who stood by her from the beginning but were not prepared to go along with her outrageous comments and lying. She even accused someone who helped her, an Aruban entrepeneur named Charles Croes of an attempted rape when he didn't want to help her anymore. Why didn't she press charges? Not because she didn't have the guts, she even told it to several people, but because she knew it was a lie.

Her hysterical behaviour and lying are disgusting. The attack on Aruba; the FBI was involved in this case from the get go (and so they have failed too because the case is still unsolved) but yet I don't see her blacklisting America does she? The second day Natalee was missing, she was hanging up posters with the text : Natalee kidnapped by Joran van der Sloot. I mean, that is just sickening. She attacked the Strategic Communications Task Force that was initiated by Aruba saying that it was started to 'to combat the negative media and to combat us'. But the truth is they paid hotel stays for her, arranged press conferences for her, collected the money donated to her. I mean why all the lying? Is it because they tried to protect her and nuanced her outrageous comments which in her turn she perceived to be a disloyal act? Jug Twitty said that Natalee didn't have a bank card with her ("it was still in her bedroom in Alabama") but in the cab he told his friend she had withdrawn money two times after her disappearance.

There are so many unsolved questions is this case. It's just so sad. I personally think that Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe Brothers ARE involved. I don't believe Joran and his attitude is despicable. I just don't trust Beth Holloway, I'm sorry. She has offended too may people. Not because she wanted the truth, but because she wanted to retain the image of her daughter. Understandable but not a justification for all the lies.

[dennisintn]

Oprah made a huge mistake letting people post comments.....she has to be over run w/ this crap...
From RU>
gwen wrote:
Comment from Oprah.com.............

Reply 3. Re: Beth Holloway and Newsmaker Follow-Ups Jan 11, 2008 8:00 PM

First of all I would like to say that I don't like Joran van der Sloot. Even if he's not involved, which I highly doubt, he's arrogant when he should be humble. In interviews he tends to have a smug grin on his face. But to be honest, I don't like Beth Holloway either. Please before you make a judgement, let me clarify.

I can not imagine the pain she must endure. I mean, if my child would go missing, I would be beside myself. The reason I don't like her is the fact that she's not telling the truth. She painted her daughter as an All American Girl, who never misbehaved, did good at school and had a good relationship with her parents. The truth is, is that Natalee went to rehab just shortly before she went to Aruba. She ran away from home two times and had constant fights with her mother and stepfather. An Aruban taxidriver testified that she had Jug Twitty and a friend in her car and that they told her Natalee had been to rehab. Her friends and several island inhabitants testified to the police that she was doing belly shots with several guys in the bar. Even her friends told her to take it slow and not drink so much. She was seen smoking weed on the beach. Natalee was not the innocent little girl as her mother portrayed her to be. Of course I understand that she wants to protect her daughter, but frustrating police investigation by telling lies is unacceptable to me.

Furthermore, I dare you to find people on Aruba that still have contact with Beth on a friendly basis. The truth is, there aren't any. Beth Holloway has managed to insult almost every person that tried to help her. On Aruba, the Holloways have left a trail of people who were initially goodwilling towards them and helpfull but later broke off any contact. For instance, several Americans that live on the island, who helped her from the beginning, don't have any contact with her anymore. They just had enough of her antics. People who stood by her from the beginning but were not prepared to go along with her outrageous comments and lying. She even accused someone who helped her, an Aruban entrepeneur named Charles Croes of an attempted rape when he didn't want to help her anymore. Why didn't she press charges? Not because she didn't have the guts, she even told it to several people, but because she knew it was a lie.

Her hysterical behaviour and lying are disgusting. The attack on Aruba; the FBI was involved in this case from the get go (and so they have failed too because the case is still unsolved) but yet I don't see her blacklisting America does she? The second day Natalee was missing, she was hanging up posters with the text : Natalee kidnapped by Joran van der Sloot. I mean, that is just sickening. She attacked the Strategic Communications Task Force that was initiated by Aruba saying that it was started to 'to combat the negative media and to combat us'. But the truth is they paid hotel stays for her, arranged press conferences for her, collected the money donated to her. I mean why all the lying? Is it because they tried to protect her and nuanced her outrageous comments which in her turn she perceived to be a disloyal act? Jug Twitty said that Natalee didn't have a bank card with her ("it was still in her bedroom in Alabama") but in the cab he told his friend she had withdrawn money two times after her disappearance.

There are so many unsolved questions is this case. It's just so sad. I personally think that Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe Brothers ARE involved. I don't believe Joran and his attitude is despicable. I just don't trust Beth Holloway, I'm sorry. She has offended too may people. Not because she wanted the truth, but because she wanted to retain the image of her daughter. Understandable but not a justification for all the lies.

is "gwen" another one of the names julia/glenda uses?  or is this one sidalee or medleyrelay?
dennisintn

[Nut44x4]

no gwen is gagal .....right Klaas?

[NM]

snipped from EURobert's translation of interview

Pauw: Well, Deepak Kalpoe had stated that ‘her death was not good’?
Witt.: One of your friends there…
Joran: Yes, that uhhh… I don’t know either how that has went/gone (?) exactly… That’s something you should ask them.
Pauw: Didn’t you ask that to them ever? Like: ‘What have you said now?’
Joran: No (Unintelligible.)
Pauw: But what did you say than?
Joran: No I never asked him that. I uh, I mean we were so often interrogated by the police and we’ve in the beginning made so many statements… And I have allready said all there is to tell. So I think also… Yes… Why do I have to make the same statements twenty times to the police? I think that… the only thing they try is to find a little difference in them…
Pauw.: What we do here Joran, is just citing the report of the Judge-commissionar who has used that at Aruba. In this way Deepak Kalpoe stated that her death was not good, has Satish Kalpoe - which is the other friend or brother, what is it exactly? …
Joran: His brother.
Pauw: … Kalpoe thinks that suspect - you - has hit her to death, you yourself supposedly have stated about the burying of Natalee Holloway? That are some hard fact because of which you suggest that indeed something IS going on?

So VietVet's source in aruba was correct again. That jurin killed Natalee by hitting her to death.  Hence why many of the lies included Natalee having a head injury.  This does not seem like an accident to me.

[Nut44x4]

I don't think gwen made the Oprah post   she just posted it, lol.
Gwen and Julia like Joran 

[klaasend]

no gwen is gagal .....right Klaas?

Yep

[NM]

snipped from EURobert's translation of interview

Pauw: Well, Deepak Kalpoe had stated that ‘her death was not good’?
Witt.: One of your friends there…
Joran: Yes, that uhhh… I don’t know either how that has went/gone (?) exactly… That’s something you should ask them.
Pauw: Didn’t you ask that to them ever? Like: ‘What have you said now?’
Joran: No (Unintelligible.)
Pauw: But what did you say than?
Joran: No I never asked him that. I uh, I mean we were so often interrogated by the police and we’ve in the beginning made so many statements… And I have allready said all there is to tell. So I think also… Yes… Why do I have to make the same statements twenty times to the police? I think that… the only thing they try is to find a little difference in them…
Pauw.: What we do here Joran, is just citing the report of the Judge-commissionar who has used that at Aruba. In this way Deepak Kalpoe stated that her death was not good, has Satish Kalpoe - which is the other friend or brother, what is it exactly? …
Joran: His brother.
Pauw: … Kalpoe thinks that suspect - you - has hit her to death, you yourself supposedly have stated about the burying of Natalee Holloway? That are some hard fact because of which you suggest that indeed something IS going on?

So VietVet's source in aruba was correct again. That jurin killed Natalee by hitting her to death.  Hence why many of the lies included Natalee having a head injury.  This does not seem like an accident to me.

Also, looks like dk knows/witness/co-killer in Natalee's death.

[private eye]

Oprah made a huge mistake letting people post comments.....she has to be over run w/ this crap...
From RU>
gwen wrote:
Comment from Oprah.com.............

Reply 3. Re: Beth Holloway and Newsmaker Follow-Ups Jan 11, 2008 8:00 PM

First of all I would like to say that I don't like Joran van der Sloot. Even if he's not involved, which I highly doubt, he's arrogant when he should be humble. In interviews he tends to have a smug grin on his face. But to be honest, I don't like Beth Holloway either. Please before you make a judgement, let me clarify.

I can not imagine the pain she must endure. I mean, if my child would go missing, I would be beside myself. The reason I don't like her is the fact that she's not telling the truth. She painted her daughter as an All American Girl, who never misbehaved, did good at school and had a good relationship with her parents. The truth is, is that Natalee went to rehab just shortly before she went to Aruba. She ran away from home two times and had constant fights with her mother and stepfather. An Aruban taxidriver testified that she had Jug Twitty and a friend in her car and that they told her Natalee had been to rehab. Her friends and several island inhabitants testified to the police that she was doing belly shots with several guys in the bar. Even her friends told her to take it slow and not drink so much. She was seen smoking weed on the beach. Natalee was not the innocent little girl as her mother portrayed her to be. Of course I understand that she wants to protect her daughter, but frustrating police investigation by telling lies is unacceptable to me.

Furthermore, I dare you to find people on Aruba that still have contact with Beth on a friendly basis. The truth is, there aren't any. Beth Holloway has managed to insult almost every person that tried to help her. On Aruba, the Holloways have left a trail of people who were initially goodwilling towards them and helpfull but later broke off any contact. For instance, several Americans that live on the island, who helped her from the beginning, don't have any contact with her anymore. They just had enough of her antics. People who stood by her from the beginning but were not prepared to go along with her outrageous comments and lying. She even accused someone who helped her, an Aruban entrepeneur named Charles Croes of an attempted rape when he didn't want to help her anymore. Why didn't she press charges? Not because she didn't have the guts, she even told it to several people, but because she knew it was a lie.

Her hysterical behaviour and lying are disgusting. The attack on Aruba; the FBI was involved in this case from the get go (and so they have failed too because the case is still unsolved) but yet I don't see her blacklisting America does she? The second day Natalee was missing, she was hanging up posters with the text : Natalee kidnapped by Joran van der Sloot. I mean, that is just sickening. She attacked the Strategic Communications Task Force that was initiated by Aruba saying that it was started to 'to combat the negative media and to combat us'. But the truth is they paid hotel stays for her, arranged press conferences for her, collected the money donated to her. I mean why all the lying? Is it because they tried to protect her and nuanced her outrageous comments which in her turn she perceived to be a disloyal act? Jug Twitty said that Natalee didn't have a bank card with her ("it was still in her bedroom in Alabama") but in the cab he told his friend she had withdrawn money two times after her disappearance.

There are so many unsolved questions is this case. It's just so sad. I personally think that Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe Brothers ARE involved. I don't believe Joran and his attitude is despicable. I just don't trust Beth Holloway, I'm sorry. She has offended too may people. Not because she wanted the truth, but because she wanted to retain the image of her daughter. Understandable but not a justification for all the lies.

Gwen, Beth is not out to win a popularity contest or friends. She is out to find justice for Natalee or at least the answers as to what happened, whatever those answers might be. Since you have said that you yourself think Joran is involved, why not forget whether or not you like Beth, and join forces to find justice for Natalee? I am curious though, if we review all of your posts on RU are we going to be able to confirm your dislike and suspicion of Joran? Maybe someone from SM can search and compile your posts to see if you speak the truth. It is easy enough to accomplish. Assuming you are truthful, despite your difference of opinion and your contempt of Beth, she would welcome to join forces with you on your common mission.

[crazybabyborg]

That guy in the lower left right corner looks like a Taco head. (Dyslexic, sorry!)

[San]

snipped from EURobert's translation of interview

Pauw: Well, Deepak Kalpoe had stated that ‘her death was not good’?
Witt.: One of your friends there…
Joran: Yes, that uhhh… I don’t know either how that has went/gone (?) exactly… That’s something you should ask them.
Pauw: Didn’t you ask that to them ever? Like: ‘What have you said now?’
Joran: No (Unintelligible.)
Pauw: But what did you say than?
Joran: No I never asked him that. I uh, I mean we were so often interrogated by the police and we’ve in the beginning made so many statements… And I have allready said all there is to tell. So I think also… Yes… Why do I have to make the same statements twenty times to the police? I think that… the only thing they try is to find a little difference in them…
Pauw.: What we do here Joran, is just citing the report of the Judge-commissionar who has used that at Aruba. In this way Deepak Kalpoe stated that her death was not good, has Satish Kalpoe - which is the other friend or brother, what is it exactly? …
Joran: His brother.
Pauw: … Kalpoe thinks that suspect - you - has hit her to death, you yourself supposedly have stated about the burying of Natalee Holloway? That are some hard fact because of which you suggest that indeed something IS going on?

So VietVet's source in aruba was correct again. That jurin killed Natalee by hitting her to death.  Hence why many of the lies included Natalee having a head injury.  This does not seem like an accident to me.

This was never an accident that is why we are all here because we know it wasn't.  They could only wish for it to be an accident.  They have been trying the accident theory from day one.  They can't even prove it.

I always believed what VietVet said about Joran hitting Natalee.

This is why I'm convinced Deepak was the one who confessed.

I feel Joran would have never ever confess because he knows he would be toast.

[San]

I have been mostly behind but Joran has always wanted to throw water on DeVries.  If my memory serves me right Joran said he was going to throw water on DeVries from his window of his apartment when DeVries first went to his home.  So this thought has been in Joran's head for a while now.

[wreck]

Persistence update:

Update: Sat 12-Jan 1340 hrs
The progress of the past couple nights embolden the search team and fortified our confidence to begin work on the deepest portion of the search area. After the bathymetric survey, a plan of attack was drafted and we set out into the depths. The previous search areas gave us the impression the seabed was a worn, tired, old beast with a relatively subdued attitude and benign character. However, adventuring into the depths brought us straight into the grasp of a much different beast. We found ourselves in the lair of the Leviathan.

Descending into the depths, 3000 ft+ of cable spools off the winch. The Persistence slows as the towfish fades far behind the boat. After a long while, the seabed- smooth and welcoming begins to come into range. We descend further, but proceed with a tense sense of danger. It's suddenly clear the beast was waiting for us with baited breath. The towfish narrowly escapes being devoured by skirting between several massive fang-like rocks. A large curled stony-tongue extrudes beneath the sonar, passing through the beast's jaws. The Persistence quickly fires the throttles forward vaulting the sonar away from the sea floor. Without hesitation, the mighty beast gives chase with surprising agility. Skimming over ancient carbonate spines and a bifurcated tail of current-quarried rock the towfish takes flight, besting the Leviathan.

With the lessons and limits learned from the first pass, we strategically withdraw before moving in for the fight. Line by line, the Leviathan and the Persistence battle all night and through the morning. The beast knows that with one slip the towfish belongs to him. We know that if our assault is flawless, the Leviathan will yield its secrets.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

Those guys are best described as "Mans Man" and "a hell of a bunch of guys". They are simply great, caring, hardworking, extremely bright, articulate, and successful. My hat is off to them.

If he is half as adept at his job as he is a talented writer -- there is no doubt they will find her if she is there!!!

[klaasend]

Posted on the front page of SM by MAGS (from the NL):

Last night in Holland, Joran van der Sloot and his parents were interviewed on TV by the team Pauw en Witteman. Crime investigator Peter R de Vries was also there. The boys parents did all they could to make Joran look like a nice stable boy who would not harm a soul. To the question: did you ever doubt your son? the father answered: never. The mother said: I did have my doubts at first and thought: oh, no, not again…”

Joran showed upo with a baseballcap on his head, not a common attire in Holland.
He would never clarify questions asked about his lies. But what did happen…. Right after the show closed he threw a glass of red wine into the face and eyes of Peter R. de Vries.
Not a very nice stable boy now, is he?

The father, btw, had advised his son when he was arrested the second time this november, to not say anything. Why? was the question…. “because everything had already been said”…
had it….? this is what so many people wonder. He lied about how he came home that night, he refuses to confess how he did come home.

what a nightmare for the parents and friends.
mags in holland

[Kat_Gram]

So Joran threw water or wine in DeVries's face !  Way to go Joran, showed yourself to be an angry idiot ! Impulsive and angry when doesn't get own way, say it isn't so Joe !
So, some Aruban taxi driver, we don't know what language he spoke, is the source for this rehab rumor. Oh gee, then it must be true.

[Observer]

San:

Your right,I also recall Joran saying he wanted to throw water on De Vries when he came to Jorans Apt in Holland. He probably thought he was impressing his pimp friends when he threw wine on De Vries face

[klaasend]

Posted by EURobert on the front page of SM - transcription of the show last night:

Transscript and translation of last nights Pauw en Witteman tv-show (Please excuse me for all the grammatical and typing errors that will be in here; it’s to time-consuming to do it flawless…. Mr. Witteman’s first name is Paul so I’ll call PaulvdS: ‘Paulus’; that’s easier for me… To not get confused…)

Witteman: Good evening. Yes, Joran van der Sloot was brought back to Aruba end of november to be interrogated. That interrogation produced nothing. He was let go and the case was dismissed.
Pauw: Joran is here, together with his father Paul and with his mother Anita to have as they themselves say, their last tv-interview about this case.
Witt.: Here as well is Peter R. de Vries who has made a television-documentairy about the NH-case and the role JvdS played, and who has his doubts. He has called Joran a lier, so their is something to be discussed.
Pauw: (Looking at Joran) Yes, well.., you can confess now, so we have that behind us…? … … … … Are that the jokes you hear the most? Or what are you bothered with more Joran?
Joran: Well, I’m not really bothered by others.. But you have to keep making jokes. As you just said yourself… else you don’t get through all this.
Pauw: Do you have the feeling now that the whole matter is over now… or do you still have the feeling that if you somewhere hear a sirene… that could be for me?
Joran: Well… Not really like that but uh it’s something that you’ll never forget. It’s something… It sticks with you all the time. You best just keep going on but… It’s something you won’t easily forget. But I think in the judicial sense it now is over yes.
Pauw: Are you addressed on this often?
Paulus: Uhhmmm… No, actually not so… I’m not addressed on this often. Uhh… All-days live goes it’s normal way… And the people at Aruba have had it with this.
Witt.: Yes, they’ve had it with this… But do they believe you?
Paulus: Uuhhm… I think so.
Witt.: So if you walk the streets you don’t think: ‘Oh they look at me… Maybe indeed a murderer… Or some other creepy-person…?’
Paulus: No, I don’t have that feeling at all. No it’s on the contrary very remarkable… uhhh… such a small community as Aruba is… and as it has had very much negative effects because of all this… That they keep and kept being supportive towards us. That has uh amazed us and… it has… our hearts… strengthened… as well. (Unintelligible.)
Witt.: Were you bothered by it?
Anita: Uhhm… Well I wasn’t bothered by it so much… You know that there is talk… I mean in every community… there is talk about what has happened. Actually… uhm, uhm, it was more like… the people they were very supportive. Neighbours, people you didn’t know at all, that still came to you… We lived on Aruba for almost twenty years… And people know Joran from the time he was very small… They saw Paul or me pushing the pram… And a former teacher of him that came by who said: ‘Well this can not at all be possible… Such a sweet kid…’ So that you felt as if this story must have had a different cause… Something else is going on… And… uh, the support… Well it sounds very strange but… it was very big. Really very big.
Witt.: Well, now the case is dismissed, in the judicial sense over with.., is that the reason you agreed to sit at the table with Peter R. de Vries?
Paulus: Well yes we have allways uh, said that uh, as soon as uh, this case us no longer in court.., when uh, the OM uh, is no longer prosecuting it, we uh, are willing to give uh, another interview, in uh, a reliable tv-show. Uh… To show we have nothing to hide. (I have to skip all the ‘uhs’ here now… the’re just to much of them.) And it is so that all this publicity has had a very big impact on this case. It has even at some point taken over it. We thought that as long as this case is going on it was not right to get in the lamplights - however at some times it was necessary - because we didn’t want to frustrate this investigation in any way.
Witt.: Yes, well uhm, Peter R. de Vries is here… He’s tried before… on Aruba as well, to get in contact with you… We’ll show a little clip how that sometimes went. (Clip of PRdVries at Jorans student-house in Arnhem, confronting Joran with fabricated photo of him with Natalee.)
Pauw: Well there were, before we started this show, some jokes made at this table like: ‘Well Peter… where’s your hidden camera…’ Well that hidden camera is not here right now. Peter, you have tried to get in contact with the VanderSloot-family a couple of times to have interviews… So you didn’t just walk behind them with your hidden camera… Do you understand something of the answer of Paul van der Sloot?
PRdV: No, to be honest, I don’t understand very much of that. I think it’s strange to hear him say here, he has nothing to hide, and he didn’t want to frustrate the investigation… But than I have to notice that they did nothing to help the case. Because Joran vdS has when he was at Aruba the last weeks, and could explain all his actions / conducts, maybe could end the mysteries, maybe could shed some light on that.., he has for weeks ‘kept his molars close on top of each-other’ (dutch expression = didn’t speak). Has not spoken a word, not answered one question! That is not what PvdS says…… this nice saying ‘We have nothing to hide’. Then I think… If you are innocent… and you did nothing wrong… why don’t you just tell your story, why don’t you answer questions from the police? The fact that you just kept your jaws closed (dutch expr.) I think in these circumstances is very strange…..
Pauw: Let’s agree that somewhat later in this show on this question, this is one of your questions but you have more of them, get answers from Joran or his father or mother… But first we…
Peter: Yes…. Just give hime some time to think…..
Pauw: Yes… So you have time to find the ‘right’ answer… (LOL) But firs before we talk about this whole matter let’s give the people at home a small summary of what has all happened and what is known… (CLIP of the NH-case)
Witt.: Were you suprised that you were re-arrested?
Joran: yes, off course… I uh… hadn’t expected that at all… I thought they were joking me… when the police arrived at the door… telling me ‘you’re under arrest again’… Because yes, uh I knew they could have nothing on me… so why would they again….
Witt.: Well it was said that there were new facts, so there were new grounds to arrest you again and take you to Aruba to interrogate you.
Joran: Yes, but I knew that would be impossible… that… that…
Witt.: But what than did you think… if it was impossible, what would be the reason they arrested you again?
Joran: Well I don’t know… Maybe I thought somebody has falsely stated against me, or something bad was said about me. I don’t know… Something like that… That’s what I thought… In that direction… Maybe something like that.
Witt.: And what did it turn out to be?! Because… You got there… You were interrogated…
Joran.: Well there turned out to be abslolutely nothing. No new evidence at all… Just old statements that they looked at in a different way.
Witt.: How did the interrogation go?
Joran: Well, just as mr. De Vries said, I just kept silent. I didn’t say anything.
Witt.: Why not?
Joran: I don’t have any trust anymore in the OM at Aruba… I think that they…. they are not trying to find the truth… or trying to find out what happened in this case. They are just literally doing…. they just want somebody to hang for this…

——-
More to come….

Joran: … they just want somebody to hang for this… They just want for their own egos to… That they themselves come good out of this…
Witt.: Even if it is an innocent person as well…
Joran: Yes, even if it is an innocent person as well. I’m convinced of that.
Peter: Well I think it’s a bit awkward that you say the Aruban OM is not trustworthy where it was you who lied all the time?!
Joran: Yes I lied and I admitt that but there were reasons for that and you don’t know them and….
Peter: Yes! I would like to know those reasons! … To lie about what you have done where you supposedly have nothing to hide!? Why do you have to lie then, tell me that?!
Joran: Well I did that extensivly in my book allready. And you have read that so you allready know the reasons.
Peter: But you are here now to tell your story or…?!!!
Witt.: Let’s agree that we the second part of the show will give you the opportunity to do that but first let’s tell the story of the VdSloot-family according to the rules we’ve in advance agreed on with Joran namely that we first look at what actually happened. Because you say I kept my mouth shut. I didn’t tell them anything more and they didn’t come up with anything new. Were those interrogations despite that tough?
Joran: Uhmmmmm… Well in fact compared to the first ones they were not. They turned out less tough than I’d expected. There was a Dutch detective-team that told THEIR story and in fact it was just speculating what they did. The allready talked in terms of ‘a girl that was dead’, you name it, where in fact it’s just a missing girl.
Pauw: That is all in the file is it… Because in the file of the judge-commissionar it says that it has to be put first that there are strong indications that Natalee is dead.
Joran: I would like to now that know as well…
Pauw: Because there is now evidence you know of she’s dead?
Joran: (Shakes his head.)
Pauw: Well, Deepak Kalpoe had stated that ‘her death was not good’?
Witt.: One of your friends there…
Joran: Yes, that uhhh… I don’t know either how that has went/gone (?) exactly… That’s something you should ask them.
Pauw: Didn’t you ask that to them ever? Like: ‘What have you said now?’
Joran: No (Unintelligible.)
Pauw: But what did you say than?
Joran: No I never asked him that. I uh, I mean we were so often interrogated by the police and we’ve in the beginning made so many statements… And I have allready said all there is to tell. So I think also… Yes… Why do I have to make the same statements twenty times to the police? I think that… the only thing they try is to find a little difference in them…
Pauw.: What we do here Joran, is just citing the report of the Judge-commissionar who has used that at Aruba. In this way Deepak Kalpoe stated that her death was not good, has Satish Kalpoe - which is the other friend or brother, what is it exactly? …
Joran: His brother.
Pauw: … Kalpoe thinks that suspect - you - has hit her to death, you yourself supposedly have stated about the burying of Natalee Holloway? That are some hard fact because of which you suggest that indeed something IS going on?
Joran: Yes, … I, I, … It’s three years ago now and in the beginning we’ve been really treated tough by the police and made to say things that we… wouldn’t say ourselves. And yes I have the feeling they made me want to say things that weren’t true.
Pauw: Did you never say… Or have you never spoken about burying Natalee Holloway?
Joran: No I have never discussed that with the pollice.
Anita: Can I go into that for a moment?
Witt.: Off course.
Anita: Uhmmm… When Joran was arrested for the first time I was the only one who was allowed to see him. Because he was a minor and they wanted to keep out Paul because of his function. Uhm, I have spoken to Joran some times but only short, some 15 to twenty minutes. And I am his mother. I love him very dearly. And I’m really convinced he wouldn’t do anything to that girl. These first emotions, these are very important to me… to see them in him as well… For a moment I doubted him. I’ve thought… By Jingo, could an accident have happened? Has something happened? Doesn’t he want to tell… He is just having his final exams… He knows he has final-exams-celebrations… He has a girlfriend… so he’s cheated on her… His father will be very angry with him… Etc. etc…. So I very directly spoke with him and one of the confrontations… that I came over there… And I was taken by an Aruban detective… And Joran was very upset… He before that was beset for hours and hours… Words were put in his mouth… which he never said… that were put to paper but that he never signed. And they showed that to me…: ‘This is what he said!’
Pauw: Well these are maybe not the most subtle moments in this conversation but Joran, you visited a psychiatrist because you were lying all the time.
Joran: No… That was not the reason why I visited the psychiatrist. I’ve been two times to a childrens psychiatrist but that was because we had some things going on within our family.
Anita: I can explain that as well… So you can hear it from my own mouth… Paul was in Holland for the Judges-training and I had to deal with three children in my own… And Joran as many seventeen year olds… I myself work with teens… And uh… he was not the easiest one. Besides that we had problems with… I had some problems with him… That he came home way to late… Uhm… I’m rather strict… Maybe even sometimes I was a little to strict… And at a certain point after talking about it with a friend of mine, maybe it’s good when we have some consults with a youth-psychiatrist. Because I just want that he has a goal in life… that he thinks well what he wants with his life and all this ‘going out’ I just think bad about that. And at that time he started playing poker in the casino and I don’t want my son being in the casino! So I contacted I youth-psychiatrist… He wasn’t 18 yet, he still was seventeen… He went there twice, that’s correct and we had one conlusive-conversation after that. And that was it… So it was really not just about lying…
Peter: What I now think is striking is that they have no confidence what soever in the judicial authorities. where at the same time it hasn’t been a long time ago that Paul vd Sloot did his very best to work in that organisation.
Pauw: As a judge you mean…
Peter: As a judge. I think it’s striking that suddenly there is so little confidence in that organisation…
Paulus: Well look uhhhh… Mister De Vries can’t hear that good… If he would have listened carefully he would have heard that Joran said that he didn’t have any confidence in the OM (public pros.)! That’s what Joran has said. Joran didn’t talk about the judicial authorities. What you see now.., what has happened is that luckely we have judicial authorities… And we sit here again! So in the end it’s because of the judicial authorities that all has ended well.
Witt.: The judge has said: the case must be dismissed, there is to little evidence, Joran is free! Well let’s for a minute get back to that prosecution before Joran was released because Joran just said they wanted to frame me; that’s what it came to it.

—
More to come…

 NOTE - i'LL ADD TO THIS POST WHEN MORE IS TRANSLATED AND POSTED ON THE FRONT PAGE OF SM

More of the show translated by EURobert:

Next bit…

Witt.: Well let’s for a minute get back to that prosecution before Joran was released because Joran just said they wanted to frame me; that’s what it turned out to be.
Joran: Well it was more like… In the beginning… the first time I was arrested they were rather tough with us: they sticked pictures of the girl to the wall… And uh, they told me as well… these two brothers… They played us off against eachother. Suggested that we had said things about eachother that were… That weren’t true all the time…
Witt.: But you all had learned the same story?
Joran: Yes.., we had agreed on… we had agreed on that… in advance…
Pauw: That you had taken her to a hotel… And that she was so unstable she had to hold on to a pillar… And I think that all three of you up to the pillar, told the same story?!
Joran: Yes but everyone had added their own things to it…
Pauw: But why did you do that? Why did you agree on making up this particular story?
Joran: Yes.., yes… Why this story? I just was scared at that moment… Those parents suddenly were at our house… And yes… I didn’t have a clue either what to do next.
Pauw: And so you decide the three of you to make up one story and this is how we’re going to tell it.
Peter: You just can tell the truth can you, when nothing happened? There’s no reason to lie is there?
Joran: Yes, I don’t think the truth sounds that good if you have to say you left a girl at the beach.
Peter: So you think a lie sounds better than the truth?
Joran: Well I didn’t know how serious this all was. I didn’t know there was a serious problem.
Peter: That’s exacly why it is so strange to lie!? When you don’t know that there is a serious problem there is no reason to lie at all!? That’s exactly the strange thing of lying here!?
Pauw: Peter… Peter you a father of a teenager, well maybe that’s a bit insipid, father of a young daughter… You can imagine you do something… leaving a girl at the beach… Let’s just tell I decently brought her back…. Such a little lie you can imagine can you?
Peter: No, I can’t imagine that Jeroen… I think you must try to see the psychology behind that. When he doesn’t know what has happened to that girl and she, after she slept away her drunkenness, simply shows up again then he is really caught lying! The fact that he nevertheless tells this lie you can interpret as: he knew he wouldn’t get caught telling this lie. Because he knew Natalee wouldn’t show up again!
Witt.: Don’t you think you look at this in a to much argumentual way? We talk about a seventeen year old boy who is confronted with the parents of girl that possibly has disappeared, maybe think that she is murdered and look at him, then you get in a panic don’t you think? In that case you may not immediatly tell them ‘Yes, I left her at the beach’.
Peter: Well I think it’s always the best option to simply tell the truth especially when you’re…
Witt.: But as a reality-reporter you must know there are exeptions to this rule…?
Peter: Yes, and most of the time they have good reasons.. But in a situation that nothing has happened.., there were no wrongdoings.., the girl herself wanted to stay there.., or get home by herself… than that’s what you say don’t you? The fact that you don’t do that AND THE THREE OF YOU IN A VERY SMART WAY MAKE UP A STORY… I think that’s suspicious.
Joran: I think it’s bad that I lied myself as well and that’s what I regret the most. If I had came forward with the truth at the beginning I think everything would have gone very different. And I think that as well is one off the reasons mister De Vries thinks the way he thinks but when you just look at the facts in this case… The timeperiod I was with this girl, being home after that, going to school the next day, and other things… What then do you try to say I have done?
Peter: If you want to discuss the facts, than tell me how you got home that night?
Joran: I was taken home by Satish…
Peter: Yes… And he denies that! He says I didn’t take him to his home at all! And first you stated that you were brought home by Deepak!!?? Not by Satish!!! Those are things as well that put you in a…..
Joran: Mister De Vries… I don’t know if you ever…
Peter: Why should they lie?
Witt.: Give him a change to answer this….
Joran: …if you ever were interrogated by the police…. in a murder case…
Peter: (Unintelligible. Something like ‘Yes I was’…)
Joran: In a murder-case?!
Peter: No… Not where I was a suspect…
Joran: The way I was interrogated was no pleasure…
Peter: And you know….
Joran: The only thing you think of is wanting to go home… So there are things you say that…. Yes… If you’re being promised you can go home… or it can help to get you home… than there are things you say that… (Unintelligible.)
Peter: (Unintelligible.)
Witt.: (Unintelligible.) Peter! Especially you know that people confess a murder that they didn’t commit. (In the past PRdV has gotten some people out of jail that indeed had confessed to committing a murder after being put under very strong pressure.)
Peter: And what does that has to do with this?
Witt.: Because in this way you can miss the truth.
Peter: But… How DID you get home?
Joran: I just told you that!?!
Peter: But those two brother denie that and from the email… from the sms- and chat-contacts that were there it shows up clearly that they didn’t bring you home.
Joran: That’s what you draw from that… But that’s not true at all… I think it indeed DOES show that.
Pauw: Back to your father if you don’t mind… You were judge-in-training I believe… And now you’re lawyer… And you have a son… and that son is interrogated, and this son tells a story of which you later find out…. Did you tell hiim yourself (to Joran)… Or how did you find out that it was a lie? You know… Dropped her off at the hotel and so on…
Joran: Yes… He heard that from the police.
Pauw: What did you think then?
Paulus: Well we were angry… So then we learned that Joran didn’t tell the truth…

More on the show from EURobert:

Paulus: Well we were angry… So when we learned that Joran didn’t tell the truth Anita and I just were very angry at Joran.
Pauw: A girl is missing and your son is a suspect and on top of that he has lied…
Paulus: Yes, yes, for us that was incomprehensible. That, that, … not just that he lied but he kept that lie up / kept on lying for a long time. That was… yes that was incomprehensible to us. We were very angry about that at that moment.
Pauw: Did you at that point say to him: ‘as long as there is no body there is no case’?
Paulus: No, I’ve never said that. That’s a term that you drop here now but…
Pauw: It’s put in the book like this as well…
Paulus: Yes.., but that term was used by the then Public Prosecutor, uh after I uh.. had had an interview with Twan Huys (dutch tv), of which the message was… well, we’re not the victims… let’s first concentrate on this girl… Let’s try to find that girl back. And she then, the next day, didn’t pick up that message and she said “Yes, this father, this (Unintelligible.) concerned father. But, he has instructed these guys: ‘No corps no case’, and that’s the reason why they are stating this way.” That was the only thing, and that off course is the heart of the matter, that I from the start on have said, this is a missing-case! This is not a criminal case. And that in my opinion is the big mistake that the OM has made: from the start they were talking about murder, manslaughter, kidnapping, rape… when there was no evidence for that. And later everything is getting in a certain light and now two and a half years later that has been corrected, but that has been very unfortunate.
Peter: I don’t think were are here now to assume this girl is still alive?!
Witt.: We’ll get to that later. Let’s get back a minute. You worked there as a back up judge. Imagine… This is a strictly hypothetical question… Imagine Joran telling you, a confidant par excelence in this family maybe, listen dad, I did something horrible… What would you have done in that case? I would have gone with Joran to the Public Prosecutor! Did you discuss this scenario with one another?
Paulus: What do you mean?
Anita: (Unintelligible. Something like: I, as a parent? Yes)
Witt.: You would agree with that?
Anita: Yes.
Witt.: You would have informed the police against your son?
Anita: Yes.
Joran: And I uh, can confirm that…. (LOL)
Witt.: You mean they would have threatened you with that?
Joran: No I think they would have done that yes.
Paulus: There would have been no doubts about that. I btw was amazed that a lot of people think that you could be able to hide something like this. For me that would have been absolutely strange. There would have been absolutely no doubts about that.
Pauw: Have you have doubts? Was there a moment you thought maybe he did it? That maybe an accident had happened and …
Paulus: No actually I have never doubted it one time.
Anita: I did.
Paulus: I have always seen the way Joran was with girls… He was not able to do that… I’m sure of that. He would, if anything would have happened to that girl, he would have acted accordingly.
Witt.: Yes, let’s talk a minute how Joran was with girls… He’s in his book very frank about it… For him it apparently was or is easy to seduce girls… So easy that you can question yourself if it always happened with the decency that has to go with that proces in comparison with someone who has much more difficulties getting in contact with girls and is much more courteously. For example you don’t write very respectfully about Natalee…
Joran: No… I am very respectfull towards girls. I have for example never pushed a girl (can’t hear it 100% right and don’t know what he means with that). Or did something wrong to a girl.
Witt.: Well there was talk of “the bitch this” and “the bitch that”. And you hardly knew this girl and still you were intimate with her. And after that leaving her there alone? These are not things that proof you have high respects for women.
Joran: No but it symply was so that I was in the casino and I was by her girlfriends invited to go out. And one thig led to the other and she wanted to come with us as well. She invited me to dance with her. Not that I didn’t want it but….
Witt.: No, it’s about this Joran. Your father says: ‘What we know of Joran is that he doesn’t do wrong things with girls. Opposite to that is the fact that you left her at the beach, you cheated on your own girlfriend not just with Natalee but with another girl as well… That is not evidence of a principle respect you have for these women?!
Joran: Well I can not, uh, I uh, well uh… Well maybe you’re right about that. Yes.
Witt.: But returning to the father, maybe you exaggerate the ‘respectfull’ way Joran behaves towards women?
Paulus: I have always seen that Joran respectfully treated girls. And we’ve discussed that as well. So for me it’s incomprehensible that a girl that wasn’t totally well was left behind by him.
Anita: He has had two times a longer relationship and that girl visited our house, we knew her parents, we knew that girl. And he is still in contact with that girl and we are - she still calls me ‘Mam’. He was with her for nine months, that girl was sixteen… That girl has very strongly defended Joran after that. After that there were some other dates. I think, and again I work with teens, 16, 17 and 18-year olds, that is very normal behaviour for a 17 year old boy. Well there were many telephone-calls normally, like: ‘Is Joran at home?’, ‘Can I speak to Joran?’ Well at a certain point Joran had his own telephone so we didn’t keep an eye on it anymore. But I have never seen, nor at our school because, he was at my school, I did see him a lot there off course, again I’ve never seen anything of bad behaviour…
Witt.: Have you ever thought that maybe an accident had happened because…
Anita: Yes that indeed I’ve thought for a moment… Because… Joran leaving a girl behind at the beach… That’s impossible because we allways say: Walk up with a girl when you lead her out by the door… So we didn’t bring him up like that and I then was furious at him, both of us were. So for a short while I thought that something could have happened…
Witt.: With alcohol and drugs maybe? …
Anita: Maybe. Well… With drugs… no… But alcohol… Those doubts were there for a while when I was in Holland but there I thought that the girl would soon show up again. But after three days it all became very worrying.
Witt.: Okay, we now go as agreed with Peter R. de Vries about his approach and your reaction to that but first we’ll watch todays news. (Newsclip)
Pauw: Okay, Peter R. de Vries as we announced earlier

[San]

Posted on the front page of SM by MAGS (from the NL):

Last night in Holland, Joran van der Sloot and his parents were interviewed on TV by the team Pauw en Witteman. Crime investigator Peter R de Vries was also there. The boys parents did all they could to make Joran look like a nice stable boy who would not harm a soul. To the question: did you ever doubt your son? the father answered: never. The mother said: I did have my doubts at first and thought: oh, no, not again…”

Joran showed upo with a baseballcap on his head, not a common attire in Holland.
He would never clarify questions asked about his lies. But what did happen…. Right after the show closed he threw a glass of red wine into the face and eyes of Peter R. de Vries.
Not a very nice stable boy now, is he?

The father, btw, had advised his son when he was arrested the second time this november, to not say anything. Why? was the question…. “because everything had already been said”…
had it….? this is what so many people wonder. He lied about how he came home that night, he refuses to confess how he did come home.

what a nightmare for the parents and friends.
mags in holland

  OMG what an idiot she is.

Not again what Anita?  How many times did he take girls to your home to rape?  How many times did he beat people up?  How many times did you clean his mess?

[Buckeye]

So which comes first....the chicken or the egg??  Does Gielen document the Sloot/Refro storyline or do Sloot/Refro follow the Gielen storyline?

More of the interview per marco at RU.

         
marco PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:53 pm       

Interview, starting at 40.55 minutes.

Q: different things, are also in Joran's book, if they did not only shine the light on Joran then they could have investigated other things, has that happened?

Paul: No, even stronger than that, now Joran is not a suspect any longer, the OM gave a press conference, he still is the person we are interested in.
After 2 1/2 years of pressure methods have been used, for me, I don't understand this.
At this moment after 2 1/2 years somebody following so much, that you then as the OM has to say, don't only take the decision to not any more to prosecute, it has to be this boy is innocent.

De Vries: I'm glad that you, with theories like these, you are not a judge. 

Joran: 10. million dollars has been spend.

Question: What needs to be investigated?

Paul: What stands out is, there is no profile of the girl, what kind of girl was she, who where her contacts, something very simple, the computer of the girl has never been researched, I nowhere saw the family of the girl has been investigated, her friends.
Where you really have to start the investigation, is with the people closest to the girl, and really after 10 million dollars, that has not happened.

Host + de vries: No, you start with the person who was last seen with that person.

Question: What could have been found if you had started with this?

Anita: We know that people have been seen on the beach.
We know that the electronic swipe card from the hotel has been used, within a time frame she could have walked, we know that the card has been used 3 times.
We know that security guards where in the neighborhood.
It looks like she could have used the card, to get into the room.

(De Vries: other people could have used that card)

Joran: her room was on the ground floor.

Anita: You can walk straight from the beach to her room.
There are about 7 or 8 statements.
That witnesses have seen her walking.

Host: Someone from a gas station says: I saw Natalee H. the day after she disappeared with an other man, and later the same man came back without the girl.
Has there not been a good investigation?

Paul and Anita both: No.

Paul: There is a video, and people are stating that Natalee is in there, after she disappeared.
We have asked to see the video, but we never saw it.

Anita: The video from the HI, yes.The hall from the HI.
The poster we just saw from the missed, (They showed the missing poster on tv),
There are several versions of a poster.
Beth H came with her family to my school.
This is 48 hours later, yes.
She was on on the island very quickly, which I would do also, she came inside the school, she brought with her the "kidnapped: poster.
but there is an other poster with "Hootie call big hootie".
Then you think: Oh this girl has run away.
She also hung posters in the school with: kidnapped by Joran vander Sloot, within a very short period of time.
I thought, you can't do this, this is strange.
I had, and still have the feeling that there is more.
Behind all this is a different story, not behind Joran, but on the other side.
I would like to see this investigated.

Host: The mother was very (fel/vel) strong (?)

they show an interview with Beth:
What I like to say to Joran is, tell what you did with my daughter when you raped her, finished raping her, what did you do with her. That's all we're asking. We want to know where she is.



I don't for one minute believe that Anita does not know the origins of the Hootie poster and the use of the keycard.  This is purposeful disinformation.  Too bad the Dutch media didn't buy it either.

She is evil....and...the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  She has been the victim ever since "the girl" disappeared.

[dennisintn]

jvds' new "look" is probably aimed at the "killer grunge" look.  add in some gang signs and you've got him pegged.
dennisintn