Natalee Case Discussion #712 1/12 - 1/16/08

[private eye]

I am mazed reading at other sites that they are saying that the video of him throwing the wine should not be available to the public, well, they trotted Joran out to meet the world and let the world judge by his answers and attitude their impression as to his guilt or innoncence, or maybe just his general disposition. To tell you the truth, I am not what possessed his parents to subject Joran to that situation nor the situation where he was interviewed by Greta. But how he behaves in public is available to the public. They and he interjected himself into the public news. On Greta, it worked and he came out ahead. This time things didn't do so well. He didn't swoon Peter off of his feet. His true color shone, in public, and unlike his confession in the Arubian prison, HE CAN'T RECANT THIS EPISODE. AS WITH NATALEE'S DISAPPEARANCE JORAN'S ACTIONS AND WORDS HAVE ONCE AGAIN CLOAKED HIM WITH THE APPEARANCE OF GUILT.

ANITA, PAULUS, IF YOU NEED MONEY SELL SOMETHING OTHER THAN JORAN'S APPEARANCE ON THE TV PROGRAMS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF HIS BEHAVIOR. HE HAS NO ONE TO BLAME BUT THE TWO OF YOU, FOR THIS, FOR THE DIRECTIONS OF HIS DEFENSE OF HIS ACTIONS, FOR THE STATE OF HIS UPBRINGING, AND THE CRUSHING OF ALL OF THE HOPES OF HIS YOUTH. WAS IT TO PROTECT HIM OR TO SAVE YOU FROM EMBARRASSMENT? IT CERTAINLY DIDN'T SAVE YOUR JOB? JUST WHY WERE YOU EXPELLED FROM THE PROGRAM? THE JUDGES SEEMED TO HAVE YOUR NUMBER DON'T THEY? THEY COVERED FOR YOU BUT SURE DON'T WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH YOU.

 A MINOR INVOLVED IN WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN AN ACCIDENTAL DEATH THOUGH IT HAPPENED IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME POSSIBLY? THE TRUTH WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN SOME CONSEQUENCES, BUT NOT SEVERE ENOUGH TO RUIN HIS LIFE AS THIS IS GOING TO DO. OR DO YOU PAULUS KNOW SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW?

 AND YOU PAULUS, A JUDGE IN TRAINING WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER, AND ANITA, AREN'T YOU A MOTHER AND A TEACHER OF THE YOUTH IN ARUBA. DID JORAN LEARN HOW TO TREAT WOMEN BY WATCHING HOW PAULUS TREATED YOU? DID YOU KNOW SUPPORT THE RULE OF LAW ENOUGH TO TEACH IT TO YOUR SON? OR DOES IT ONLY APPLY TO OTHERS?

[Buckeye]

Pauw.: What we do here Joran, is just citing the report of the Judge-commissionar who has used that at Aruba. In this way Deepak Kalpoe stated that her death was not good, has Satish Kalpoe - which is the other friend or brother, what is it exactly? …

Joran: His brother.

Pauw: … Kalpoe thinks that suspect - you - has hit her to death, you yourself supposedly have stated about the burying of Natalee Holloway? That are some hard fact because of which you suggest that indeed something IS going on?

Joran: Yes, … I, I, … It’s three years ago now and in the beginning we’ve been really treated tough by the police and made to say things that we… wouldn’t say ourselves. And yes I have the feeling they made me want to say things that weren’t true.

Pauw: Did you never say… Or have you never spoken about burying Natalee Holloway?

Joran: No I have never discussed that with the pollice.

Anita: Can I go into that for a moment?

Witt.: Off course.

Anita: Uhmmm… When Joran was arrested for the first time I was the only one who was allowed to see him. Because he was a minor and they wanted to keep out Paul because of his function. Uhm, I have spoken to Joran some times but only short, some 15 to twenty minutes. And I am his mother. I love him very dearly. And I’m really convinced he wouldn’t do anything to that girl. These first emotions, these are very important to me… to see them in him as well… For a moment I doubted him. I’ve thought… By Jingo, could an accident have happened? Has something happened? Doesn’t he want to tell… He is just having his final exams… He knows he has final-exams-celebrations… He has a girlfriend… so he’s cheated on her… His father will be very angry with him… Etc. etc…. So I very directly spoke with him and one of the confrontations… that I came over there… And I was taken by an Aruban detective… And Joran was very upset… He before that was beset for hours and hours… Words were put in his mouth… which he never said… that were put to paper but that he never signed. And they showed that to me…: ‘This is what he said!’


How do we not believe this is the confession??  Of course it is no good because Anita made sure Joran didn't sign it.  Since they supposedly waited to arrest them until the videotape came in from Holland.  Why is an unsigned confession not a confession??  Poor Joran didn't mean what he said??  Deepak and Satish are on record with a report by the judge?? 

[wreck]

If Greta had interviewed him PROPERLY -- she too would have been doused.

[Peaches]

So will Carpe You Tube Beth's  appearance on Oprah?  I will definately not be home and I doubt I can get it together to tape it.     Regardless of which segment Beth is on, I won't be home. 

[klaasend]

So will Carpe You Tube Beth's  appearance on Oprah?  I will definately not be home and I doubt I can get it together to tape it.     Regardless of which segment Beth is on, I won't be home. 

I'm pretty sure he's going to be taping it.

[Peaches]

Thank you, Klaas. 

And thanks for the other stuff you do behind the scenes when you're supposed to be working.

[klaasend]

Thank you, Klaas. 

And thanks for the other stuff you do behind the scenes when you're supposed to be working.

  Sometimes I even run to the store 

[mishy]

LMAO @ MISHY's BUTT!!!!!!

well, you know what they say...if ya got it...flaunt it like ya just don't care  

[NM]

kinda O/T
Wreck,
I've often watched your 2 trains crash as I'm scolling, and thought that's neat!

Now I get it! It really made sense after the interview of the people of the ditch.

I don't usually watch "train wrecks" but this one is going to be good.

"I hear the train a comin'. It's comin' down the track....." J. Cash.

[Magnolia]

I am not a mental health professional but this is how I feel about this episode and I would be paying attention to this if I ever had to meet Joran in person for any reason.

The wine-throwing incident was not just bad manners and a temporary loss of anger. It was extremely irrational and out of context for the "public relations" purpose of the meeting put on for his behalf by his family and probably many others and at other's time and expense.

It was an attack plain and simple.  Look at his face.  He calmly and coldly tosses the wine on Peter who was looking down and minding his own business, unaware, and not in confrontation at the time.  He didn't see it coming.  No one saw it coming.  Joran quickly did it when no one was watching or expecting it.  It was a threat and a statement from a guy who thinks he is all-powerful.  It was a slap in the face to his supporters and his family also.  He was saying to Peter De Vries and everyone else, "Don't f with me or you'll be sorry".  If he thought he could get away with it, he would have assaulted him more violently and if he had a weapon handy he would have used it and then walked away as if nothing had happened. 

His explanation and apology later were cooked up by his public relation experts (Dad or Taco or “Joran’s a sweet boy” Taco assistant ect.) - definitely not Joran's idea - or if he had second thoughts later, it was to save his own skin - apology is not in his make up.  I can just see his father pleading with him to go back and apologize.  (In the Greta "inclined to believe" interview he said he was sorry he left Natalee on the beach.   Why didn't he say that immediately to Natalee's family and the police when they arrived at the scene saying their daughter was missing?  Wouldn't an innocent person be concerned and want to help find her, not lead everyone on a wild goose chase?  Beth saw that cold expression when she asked him what happened and she knew him then and there for what he is).

Peter De Vries is a gentleman and has taken it calmly.  That he was temporarily blinded by the wine is not ok.  I am surprised the studio security guards did not grab Joran and detain him.  In the US I think that may have been the response if a TV personality was attacked on or off the air.  He's a walking time bomb for another violent attack and someone should pay attention.  He's a threat to others.

If I ever had any doubts about Joran’s involvement in Natalee’s disappearance, which I have not, I wouldn't anymore after seeing this.  He assaulted Natalee and he and or others let her die or he killed her and he and or others disposed of the body and the evidence.  That those three were not separated detained and questioned and their cars and homes searched immediately goes beyond bungling by the police.  The arrest of the guards screamed cover-up. That the poor "boys" were scared and so they lied and so it's Natalee’s family’s fault the evidence was lost in the first 10 days (Aruba excuse, Dutch excuse) doesn't fly.  So the cops believed the lies and ran with it?  NOT.  Not even in Aruba. There is a foul odor coming from that island and it starts with four suspects and spreads around.

Exactly.

Furthermore ... I once thought that he took care of the body himself, that his father would be the LAST person he'd want to call on (like most teens). However, after seeing the extent to which these parents go to protect him, I've changed my mind. He KNEW and his parents would cover up for him no matter what he did.

Unfortunately for all of them, he is now an adult and society's problem, not a six-year-old. There's a limit to what parents can explain.

I can see him going off on Natalee if she resisted him, in the same way that he went off on deVries for the same reason.

Case closed.

Paulus Van der Sloot to Dave Holloway:  "I would do anything to protect my son."

[Observer]

LMAO @ MISHY's BUTT!!!!!!

well, you know what they say...if ya got it...flaunt it like ya just don't care  

OF has it goin on!! His own kissing booth 

Dont forget to watch Oprah Wednesday the 16th..Check your local listings!

[sb]

Hi again everyone and welcome to "Enough"!

Now that I have read more about the DeVries incident, I can say that Joran has committed a MAJOR PR error with the cameras rolling, and this will not help him at all in the public light. He is probably more concerned with his "image" than with anything else in his life (like all narcissists are) and that image is in freefall right now. A true narcissist HAS to be liked, adored, worshipped and respected by others... it is their basic urge... and when it is unfulfilled, they SUFFER inside. Literally. I have seen them and know how they think.

The BEST way to get Joran to pay for what he did, is to render him an outcast. He's doing that all on his own. It may be all he ever has to pay for what he did, but it's something.

Remember when I said "Don't trust Mos" when all were singing his praises? Well...
I am reiterating this again and we shall see if I am right again...

Oprah Winfrey NEVER gave Beth the TIME OF DAY until Joran was off the hook. I TOLD ALL OF YOU THAT SHE WOULDN'T. 

I am not getting any warm fuzzies whatsoever over the fact that she is now interviewing Beth.

Guess Oprah thinks her timeshare won't lose any value now... or that Beth can't hurt the left politically now, with no legal legs left for her to stand on...

Oprah DISGUSTS me. Period. She is on a par with renfro.

[Puzzler]

I am not a mental health professional but this is how I feel about this episode and I would be paying attention to this if I ever had to meet Joran in person for any reason.

The wine-throwing incident was not just bad manners and a temporary loss of anger.  It was extremely irrational and out of context for the "public relations" purpose of the meeting put on for his behalf by his family and probably many others and at other's time and expense.

It was an attack plain and simple.  Look at his face.  He calmly and coldly tosses the wine on Peter who was looking down and minding his own business, unaware, and not in confrontation at the time.  He didn't see it coming.  No one saw it coming.  Joran quickly did it when no one was watching or expecting it.  It was a threat and a statement from a guy who thinks he is all-powerful.  It was a slap in the face to his supporters and his family also.  He was saying to Peter De Vries and everyone else, "Don't f with me or you'll be sorry".  If he thought he could get away with it, he would have assaulted him more violently and if he had a weapon handy he would have used it and then walked away as if nothing had happened. 

His explanation and apology later were cooked up by his public relation experts (Dad or Taco or “Joran’s a sweet boy” Taco assistant ect.) - definitely not Joran's idea - or if he had second thoughts later, it was to save his own skin - apology is not in his make up.  I can just see his father pleading with him to go back and apologize.  (In the Greta "inclined to believe" interview he said he was sorry he left Natalee on the beach.   Why didn't he say that immediately to Natalee's family and the police when they arrived at the scene saying their daughter was missing?  Wouldn't an innocent person be concerned and want to help find her, not lead everyone on a wild goose chase?  Beth saw that cold expression when she asked him what happened and she knew him then and there for what he is).

Peter De Vries is a gentleman and has taken it calmly.  That he was temporarily blinded by the wine is not ok.  I am surprised the studio security guards did not grab Joran and detain him.  In the US I think that may have been the response if a TV personality was attacked on or off the air.  He's a walking time bomb for another violent attack and someone should pay attention.  He's a threat to others.

If I ever had any doubts about Joran’s involvement in Natalee’s disappearance, which I have not, I wouldn't anymore after seeing this.  He assaulted Natalee and he and or others let her die or he killed her and he and or others disposed of the body and the evidence.  That those three were not separated detained and questioned and their cars and homes searched immediately goes beyond bungling by the police.  The arrest of the guards screamed cover-up. That the poor "boys" were scared and so they lied and so it's Natalee’s family’s fault the evidence was lost in the first 10 days (Aruba excuse, Dutch excuse) doesn't fly.  So the cops believed the lies and ran with it?  NOT.  Not even in Aruba. There is a foul odor coming from that island and it starts with four suspects and spreads around.

Welcome, Enough!  I agree 100% with your excellent first post!

I watched as much as I could find of the interview.  Even though I can't understand what's spoken, there was a LOT GOING ON AT THAT TABLE.  It was absolutely electric at one point. 

Joran was outraged that DeVries doesn't buy the crap he's peddling, and challenged him with his own repeated lies so that Joran was totally boxed in by his own comments.

Joran's eyes flashed with anger, and he wanted to punch Devries but couldn't reach him.  You could see Joran's eyes darken and flash as DeVries maintained eye contact.  Joran's expression demonstrated seething anger that was absolutely explosive.  He was enraged, and even though things were winding down, Joran's anger was festering, and he was unable to disguise it.  Not very cool for an experienced poker player.

As the interview ended, and all were shaking hands, Joran was still seething, and wondering what he can do.  If Devries hadn't been across the table, Joran would have sucker punched him while he wasn't looking. 

That's the kind of furious coward Joran is.  He's completely transparent and pathetic.  A real Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde.  Quite the stark contrast with the show he put on for Greta, isn't it?  IMO, Joran is comfortable when things are in his control, and everyone is buying his BS; He counts on that.  He depends on it because it has worked so well for such a long time.  When he is challenged, and boxed in, not in control, called out for his BS, he explodes.

The world has now seen the Joran that Anita took to the doctor.  The one she had difficulty with.  The one that is out of control.  The world has now seen the narcissistic, psychopathic Joran van der Sloot.

Joran van der Sloot......the gift that just keeps on giving.  Keep talking Joran.

Welcome Enough!!

I agree with both of these excellent posts.

Just a sentence or two more before the end of the program and I believe that Joran just might have "lost it" during the show.  You can see it on his face....just about all he could do to hold it back for a couple of minutes.  Hair trigger temper!!

Don't tell me that he couldn't have been broken in jail...I'm sure he was....Aruba will just NEVER own up to it.

WHAT is it that the VDS have over the entire island??!!??

[Observer]

24ora comment
2008 pink panter said: _ wel wel, again joran is in news but is sigi lastra aruba cune the dutch animal here!!!! besides if the does not controvercia why eta sigi aparese in programanan? is pace the sir here is one berdadero phycopata dangerous cu his parents owing to crea y owing to work one monster of djie cu some day will become contra they y they will not can controle more y the hour the gay will canta y i am wait for will is soon besides i am contento cu the cos here owing to happen cu his own hulandesnan y once more all world will see of what especie eta work!!! smilies/angry.gif

[Kat_Gram]

Snip :Also, it is disheartening to see that there is already action to remove the proof of what Joran did, claims of it being illegally transmitted, etc.

Guess Paulus is trying to work up another lawsuit.  But if it happened as we know it did after the regular programming and was covered by members of the press who were present, it should be come no different than any other episode of Joran and his tantrums.  The copyright of that one program does not follow Joran, protecting him all the days of his life.
Where did this come from Anna ? Is he really trying to stop it ?

[NM]

Does anyone else see this when looking at pvds?
All his facial features are in the lower 1/3 of his face.

[ldstlou]

LMAO @ MISHY's BUTT!!!!!!

well, you know what they say...if ya got it...flaunt it like ya just don't care  

lol...you go girl!!!

[ldstlou]

Does anyone else see this when looking at pvds?
All his facial features are in the lower 1/3 of his face.

yep same forehead!!!

[Tylergal]

Agree, Oprah seldom has a whole program dedicated to just one subject.

Also, it is disheartening to see that there is already action to remove the proof of what Joran did, claims of it being illegally transmitted, etc.

Guess Paulus is trying to work up another lawsuit.  But if it happened as we know it did after the regular programming and was covered by members of the press who were present, it should be come no different than any other episode of Joran and his tantrums.  The copyright of that one program does not follow Joran, protecting him all the days of his life.

The minute the credits started to roll, program over, and he is fair game to a free press.

No way they are ever going to be able to put this toothpaste back in the tube.  The more they try, the more people will want to see what they are trying to hide.

But Paulus might be thinking lawsuit of some sort for the producers of that program.

Enough, I, too, wonder why security did not seize Joran and call the cops.  It was clearly an assault on another guest.

Indicative of a lenient socialist/near-communist society that will remove this.  This is where the rubber meets the road on "freedom of speech/press, etc."

[Tylergal]

Hi again everyone and welcome to "Enough"!

Now that I have read more about the DeVries incident, I can say that Joran has committed a MAJOR PR error with the cameras rolling, and this will not help him at all in the public light. He is probably more concerned with his "image" than with anything else in his life (like all narcissists are) and that image is in freefall right now. A true narcissist HAS to be liked, adored, worshipped and respected by others... it is their basic urge... and when it is unfulfilled, they SUFFER inside. Literally. I have seen them and know how they think.

The BEST way to get Joran to pay for what he did, is to render him an outcast. He's doing that all on his own. It may be all he ever has to pay for what he did, but it's something.

Remember when I said "Don't trust Mos" when all were singing his praises? Well...
I am reiterating this again and we shall see if I am right again...

Oprah Winfrey NEVER gave Beth the TIME OF DAY until Joran was off the hook. I TOLD ALL OF YOU THAT SHE WOULDN'T. 

I am not getting any warm fuzzies whatsoever over the fact that she is now interviewing Beth.

Guess Oprah thinks her timeshare won't lose any value now... or that Beth can't hurt the left politically now, with no legal legs left for her to stand on...

Oprah DISGUSTS me. Period. She is on a par with renfro.

Thank you.  You see this facade of a woman with the same chip on her shoulders carrying a bullhorn to advance her elitist opinions as I see.  I am happy that I am not the only one with eyes wide open when it comes to Oprah.  She will spin it Joran's way; it's her nature to agree with the lowest segment of society.  If I am wrong, I will apologize to eveyrone here.