Natalee Case Discussion #713 1/16 - 1/20/08

[texasmom]

Klaas, I think #5.

Tyler...you can't just leave it at: I think #5.  You have to tell what
#5 would be.

I agree, please tell us what you think Tylergal!

[Tylergal]

OK..still working but I did want to say one thing.

I actually do feel bad for those people in Aruba that are innocent of all this.  The government and AHATA has done more damage to Aruba's reputation than any boycott could.  They have shot themselves in the foot many times and continue to do so.

Yep, my forefathers were like that too and they had a tea party.

[oceanexploration]

Yes, I was lurking.  Just catching up on the Monkey musings.  Things are going well. I just posted an update.  Check out the blog.  We're almost at the dock now.  It was very rough all day.  Fortunately no one was hurt.  The only incident we had was our navigator got hit in the head by a flying tape dispenser.  That HAD to hurt.

As for all that nonsense from "Guided Light" ...they're con artists.  They don't claim to be psychics btw, just guided by Indian Spirits.  Whoot!     The timing isn't coincidental IMO.  They'll likely be sued for libel down the road (also IMO).  Hopefully this search will bring hope and closure to the family soon. I personally trust so. God bless you all and thanks for the continued support and prayers.

[San]

OK..still working but I did want to say one thing.

I actually do feel bad for those people in Aruba that are innocent of all this.  The government and AHATA has done more damage to Aruba's reputation than any boycott could.  They have shot themselves in the foot many times and continue to do so.

This is my one post for the night.  I do not feel bad for the people in Aruba.  They allowed it to happen and they were quick to protest Beth.  Where are they with their signs now.

[private eye]

OK..still working but I did want to say one thing.

I actually do feel bad for those people in Aruba that are innocent of all this.  The government and AHATA has done more damage to Aruba's reputation than any boycott could.  They have shot themselves in the foot many times and continue to do so.

I agree. But I don't know how else she can apply pressure to affect change in Aruba. Betico Croes had the right idea, in that Aruba could build nice lives for their citizens with a tourist industry just like Destin or Myrtle Beach. Tourism and real estate would flourish if they could rid the island of the large organized crime element. But the proximity to SA makes it almost impossible to do. Large payoffs can corrupt the best, but it is ironic, that the true idealist of Aruba, Betico, is having his dream shattered by the corruption of his own son and brother. It is speculated that Betico's death was not an accident but a murder conspiracy, leaving Aruba in the hands of what should be the protector of his legacy, Rudy. Pity that Rudy sold out and placed himself in the hands of the drug lords. And who knows, they may just be to powerful for anyone to stand up and defeat. However, if so, they make Aruba too dangerous to become a tourist haven as well. Beth found out the hard way, and the island, like Joran, is demonstrating their true colors and their lack of anger management when pressed for "Justice For Natalee." Such a simple request, and universally the right thing to do, yet soooooooo much resistance. I just don't understand.

[Helen Back]

OK..still working but I did want to say one thing.

I actually do feel bad for those people in Aruba that are innocent of all this.  The government and AHATA has done more damage to Aruba's reputation than any boycott could.  They have shot themselves in the foot many times and continue to do so.

I agree, Klaas.  I feel bad for the people who have no control over the situation, and are at the mercy of AHATA and the Powers That Be.  I've never been to Aruba, but we have met some really nice folks on this board who wish no harm to the family, and understand their grief.  In her book, Beth relates many inspiring stories about the citizens of Aruba who were helpful and supportive when the family was there searching for Natalee.  Regrettably, the good citizens of Aruba are lost in the mess created by a few corrupt, power-hungry, greedy fools.

[hotping]

OK..still working but I did want to say one thing.

I actually do feel bad for those people in Aruba that are innocent of all this.  The government and AHATA has done more damage to Aruba's reputation than any boycott could.  They have shot themselves in the foot many times and continue to do so.

I agree! There are babies over there that are suffering because of the stupidty of the adults......So Sad!

[Magnolia]

Yes, I was lurking.  Just catching up on the Monkey musings.  Things are going well. I just posted an update.  Check out the blog.  We're almost at the dock now.  It was very rough all day.  Fortunately no one was hurt.  The only incident we had was our navigator got hit in the head by a flying tape dispenser.  That HAD to hurt.

As for all that nonsense from "Guided Light" ...they're con artists.  They don't claim to be psychics btw, just guided by Indian Spirits.  Whoot!     The timing isn't coincidental IMO.  They'll likely be sued for libel down the road (also IMO).  Hopefully this search will bring hope and closure to the family soon. I personally trust so. God bless you all and thanks for the continued support and prayers.

Ocean,  Take the day off tomorrow.  You have my permission.  It is going to be rough
seas anyway.

[private eye]

Yes, I was lurking.  Just catching up on the Monkey musings.  Things are going well. I just posted an update.  Check out the blog.  We're almost at the dock now.  It was very rough all day.  Fortunately no one was hurt.  The only incident we had was our navigator got hit in the head by a flying tape dispenser.  That HAD to hurt.

As for all that nonsense from "Guided Light" ...they're con artists.  They don't claim to be psychics btw, just guided by Indian Spirits.  Whoot!     The timing isn't coincidental IMO.  They'll likely be sued for libel down the road (also IMO).  Hopefully this search will bring hope and closure to the family soon. I personally trust so. God bless you all and thanks for the continued support and prayers.

Ocean,  Take the day off tomorrow.  You have my permission.  It is going to be rough
seas anyway.

You all are simply the best. I know Beth is more concerned about all of your personal safety and well being than her closure, so by all means take care, minimize any risks for harm to all of the crew and equipment and know that she is bound to appreciate each and every one of you. Not that she doesn't want closure, just that your safety is more important to her:))))))))))) She definitely needs closure more than even justice!!

[Tamikosmom]

Good Night Monkeys and  ...

Good Night PI.  I pray every night that Natalee's family will receive the emotional and physical strength required in their quest for justice ... in their quest for a measure of closure.

Hugs

Janet

[Observer]

Update: Thurs 17-Jan 2320 hrs

The Persistence left the dock today at 1224 hrs. The trade winds are howling at 30+kts. The 8ft+ seas are growing and brimming with white caps rolling in from the northeast. The occasional 12-14ft swell rocks the Persistence mercilessly along with its inhabitants. Inside, life goes on as usual and spirits are high. Exceptionally large swells throw around anything that isn't dogged down. The galley clock gets thrown off the wall and is now stuck reading 8:35. It seems we also have high-tech self-clearing shelves, tables, and counters. Traversing around inside the boat is a novelty in high seas. People turn into walking pendulums making Z-shaped paths leaning to and fro 30 degrees. The comedy is abruptly interupted with a sobering reminder of the ocean's peril over the radio.

2100 hrs - A call comes on the radio from the Aruban Port Authority requesting the Persistence assist a vessel in distress. A sailboat named Michelle with 6 reported on board is adrift. In such strong winds and high seas it's possible the sailboat could have broken its mast. All we know is that they need immediate help. The search team picks up the sonar and immediately heads in the reported direction of the distressed vessel. For miles we scan the dark horizon as Curacao, Aruba, and the Persistence carefully monitor the radio. Finally, we receive a position and plot a bearing and range -4.5 miles, heading 210 degrees. After a while, the Aruban port authority once again raises the Persistence on the radio, only this time with a very different position. It seems not only is the Michelle adrift, she is very lost. I can only imagine what kind of hell the people on board are going through. Powerless, drifting, scared, alone, and at the mercy of perilous seas the Michelle hopes and waits for rescue somewhere offshore Curacao. The Persistence is called off its search and turns towards the Port of Aruba at 2300 hrs. Although unspoken, we all feel a sense of disappointment knowing the Michelle is still out there in danger.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/xii-perilous-seas.html

[private eye]

OK..still working but I did want to say one thing.

I actually do feel bad for those people in Aruba that are innocent of all this.  The government and AHATA has done more damage to Aruba's reputation than any boycott could.  They have shot themselves in the foot many times and continue to do so.

I agree! There are babies over there that are suffering because of the stupidty of the adults......So Sad!

But as a democracy, the masses have the contol of the country, they just have to exercise it.

[private eye]

Update: Thurs 17-Jan 2320 hrs

The Persistence left the dock today at 1224 hrs. The trade winds are howling at 30+kts. The 8ft+ seas are growing and brimming with white caps rolling in from the northeast. The occasional 12-14ft swell rocks the Persistence mercilessly along with its inhabitants. Inside, life goes on as usual and spirits are high. Exceptionally large swells throw around anything that isn't dogged down. The galley clock gets thrown off the wall and is now stuck reading 8:35. It seems we also have high-tech self-clearing shelves, tables, and counters. Traversing around inside the boat is a novelty in high seas. People turn into walking pendulums making Z-shaped paths leaning to and fro 30 degrees. The comedy is abruptly interupted with a sobering reminder of the ocean's peril over the radio.

2100 hrs - A call comes on the radio from the Aruban Port Authority requesting the Persistence assist a vessel in distress. A sailboat named Michelle with 6 reported on board is adrift. In such strong winds and high seas it's possible the sailboat could have broken its mast. All we know is that they need immediate help. The search team picks up the sonar and immediately heads in the reported direction of the distressed vessel. For miles we scan the dark horizon as Curacao, Aruba, and the Persistence carefully monitor the radio. Finally, we receive a position and plot a bearing and range -4.5 miles, heading 210 degrees. After a while, the Aruban port authority once again raises the Persistence on the radio, only this time with a very different position. It seems not only is the Michelle adrift, she is very lost. I can only imagine what kind of hell the people on board are going through. Powerless, drifting, scared, alone, and at the mercy of perilous seas the Michelle hopes and waits for rescue somewhere offshore Curacao. The Persistence is called off its search and turns towards the Port of Aruba at 2300 hrs. Although unspoken, we all feel a sense of disappointment knowing the Michelle is still out there in danger.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/01/xii-perilous-seas.html

Your concern is your beauty:)

[texasmom]

goodnight Janet!

[private eye]

Good Night Monkeys and  ...

Good Night PI.  I pray every night that Natalee's family will receive the emotional and physical strength required in their quest for justice ... in their quest for a measure of closure.

Hugs

Janet

Good night, I am heading for the sack myself. Natalee's family will never get tired or lose interest in this quest, to be honest they haven't even broke a sweat yet, unlike Paulus:)))))))))) They have too much good help for that to happen!!!!!!!!!

[Helen Back]

OK..still working but I did want to say one thing.

I actually do feel bad for those people in Aruba that are innocent of all this.  The government and AHATA has done more damage to Aruba's reputation than any boycott could.  They have shot themselves in the foot many times and continue to do so.

I agree. But I don't know how else she can apply pressure to affect change in Aruba. Betico Croes had the right idea, in that Aruba could build nice lives for their citizens with a tourist industry just like Destin or Myrtle Beach. Tourism and real estate would flourish if they could rid the island of the large organized crime element. But the proximity to SA makes it almost impossible to do. Large payoffs can corrupt the best, but it is ironic, that the true idealist of Aruba, Betico, is having his dream shattered by the corruption of his own son and brother. It is speculated that Betico's death was not an accident but a murder conspiracy, leaving Aruba in the hands of what should be the protector of his legacy, Rudy. Pity that Rudy sold out and placed himself in the hands of the drug lords. And who knows, they may just be to powerful for anyone to stand up and defeat. However, if so, they make Aruba too dangerous to become a tourist haven as well. Beth found out the hard way, and the island, like Joran, is demonstrating their true colors and their lack of anger management when pressed for "Justice For Natalee." Such a simple request, and universally the right thing to do, yet soooooooo much resistance. I just don't understand.

I agree with you PI.  But I really don't think Beth is doing or has to do anything to apply pressure to Aruba anymore.  True, she did bring the tragic story of Natalee's disappearance to the world, and Bravo to her for continuing to do that.
But there really is no boycott.  There is only the American public (and others) becoming educated about the mafia, drug lords, and corrupt police and justice officials running rampant in Aruba.  I truly believe that once people are informed, the choice is a no-brainer!

As evidenced by the nut bags who would attack the victim and her family, the place is very, very dangerous, and that's all people really need to know.  What kind of people re-victimize a victim?  And why would anyone want to travel to a place where this is a common practice?

But Beth doesn't have to tell it anymore.  Thanks to many hard working people, the story is being told over and over. 

And, we have a ROBOTS out telling everyone.



 

[CapsLockWizard]

Klaas, I believe you have left out some important ones.

Pride:

Their excessive belief in their own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. ( they have not been Recognised by the Holloway's)

Envy:
Their desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. (Beth $16000.00 open bill in Aruba while they have to pay for them self. otherwise they would not bring it out)

Gluttony:
Their inordinate desire to consume and drink more than that which one requires. (Lets go To Aruba, Talk Some $hit and see if we can be Comp by the hotel for a short fame while drinking and eating.

Lust:
There is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. (see how much Tattoo they have)

Anger
This is manifested in the individual who spurns love (lies of loving) and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. They say they are anger that the Holloway's have build this case on a foundation of lies. by at the same time lets enjoy the the rest of the seven sins.

Greed:
this is their desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. (they said that they can read and work with the spirit, another BS) It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. ( They said that they not doing it for money, but I bet you that the seven sins tells you different)

Sloth:
is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work. (if they were so spiritual, they would have solve the case a long time ago) even the FBI do not believe in them.

[msmarple]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   01/16/2008

Police Union: ‘Nightclubs closed at 01:00’ 

In order to avoid irregularities, like after the last Torchlight Parade, the nightclubs must close earlier, is the opinion of police union SPA.

ORANJESTAD – Police union SPA has sent a letter to Prime Minister Nelson Oduber objecting to the late closing hours of horeca-businesses.  SPA asks the premier to have the clubs in the center of town close at 01:00 during carnival activities.   

The letter was also sent to Justice-minister Rudy Croes, to all the parliamentary party-leaders, and to chief of police Peter de Witte, who already indicated in the Amigoe last week that he wants to discuss the closing hours with Oduber.  “The current situation can lead to problems during carnival”, said De Witte referring to the free-for-alls in the center of town after the Torchlight Parade. 

SPA has also mentioned the closing hours in the note to the corps leaders and Parliament members as a result of the shooting incident that killed a 19-year old boy and seriously injured a police officer.  The union says that some horeca-owners are pertinently neglecting the closing hours.  In order to guarantee the safety of citizens and police officers, the union wants the horeca-places to close at 01:00 during week nights and at 02:00 in the weekends. 

Due to understaffing in all the districts, SPA also wants the horeca-places to close at 01:00 in the weekends during the Aruba Tivoli Lighting Parade on January 26 and the Kimamento di Momo on February 5.  SPA has learned that nightclub Bahia in the West Street is going to have a party before and after the Lighting Parade.  “To us, this is asking for trouble”, says SPA.   

In her letter, SPA also refers to the irregularities during the turn of the year, when Oduber has given the horeca-sector permission to stay open till 06:00.  The police station in Oranjestad had to turn out at numerous occasions for stabbings, robberies, collisions, and reporting.

SPA also quotes the Torchlight Parade as an example, even thought the parade itself went very smooth.  The union is outraged though about the incidents after the parade.  The union blames this on the fact that many people stayed in town because the horeca-places stayed open till 04:00.  A total of 10 to 20 surveillants were present in the area where nightclub Bahia and Royal Plaza are and because of this, other districts were without police surveillance.     

[klaasend]

Klaas, I believe you have left out some important ones.

Pride:

Their excessive belief in their own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. ( they have not been Recognised by the Holloway's)

Envy:
Their desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. (Beth $16000.00 open bill in Aruba while they have to pay for them self. otherwise they would not bring it out)

Gluttony:
Their inordinate desire to consume and drink more than that which one requires. (Lets go To Aruba, Talk Some $hit and see if we can be Comp by the hotel for a short fame while drinking and eating.

Lust:
There is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. (see how much Tattoo they have)

Anger
This is manifested in the individual who spurns love (lies of loving) and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. They say they are anger that the Holloway's have build this case on a foundation of lies. by at the same time lets enjoy the the rest of the seven sins.

Greed:
this is their desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. (they said that they can read and work with the spirit, another BS) It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. ( They said that they not doing it for money, but I bet you that the seven sins tells you different)

Sloth:
is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work. (if they were so spiritual, they would have solve the case a long time ago) even the FBI do not believe in them.

CapsLock - welcome to the forum!

To clarify in case anyone is wondering, CapsLock is speaking of Kelly and Castillo. 

[snoopy]

Yes, I was lurking.  Just catching up on the Monkey musings.  Things are going well. I just posted an update.  Check out the blog.  We're almost at the dock now.  It was very rough all day.  Fortunately no one was hurt.  The only incident we had was our navigator got hit in the head by a flying tape dispenser.  That HAD to hurt.

As for all that nonsense from "Guided Light" ...they're con artists.  They don't claim to be psychics btw, just guided by Indian Spirits.  Whoot!     The timing isn't coincidental IMO.  They'll likely be sued for libel down the road (also IMO).  Hopefully this search will bring hope and closure to the family soon. I personally trust so. God bless you all and thanks for the continued support and prayers.

God Bless you buddy!!  Please let the entire crew know how much we apprecitate everything they are doing, the sacrifices they have made, and that they are in our prayers.