Natalee Case Discussion #713 1/16 - 1/20/08

[private eye]

Since individually most monkeys are more knowledgable than I, especially to the details, and collectively the monkeys are way more knowledgable than I, I really meant to ASK ARE THESE UNDENIABLE CONCLUSIONS BASED UPON THE SUPPOSEDLY TRUE WORDS OF THE BOYS ACCORDING TO THEM, THEIR CANDID WORDS AMONG THEMSELVES, AND THE FACTS OF THE CASE?

[private eye]

Since individually most monkeys are more knowledgable than I, especially to the details, and collectively the monkeys are way more knowledgable than I, I really meant to ASK ARE THESE UNDENIABLE CONCLUSIONS BASED UPON THE SUPPOSEDLY TRUE WORDS OF THE BOYS ACCORDING TO THEM, THEIR CANDID WORDS AMONG THEMSELVES, AND THE FACTS OF THE CASE?

I don't know why RU has so much trouble even knowing what to believe in the beginning concerning Beth driving home from Hot Springs and all until she arrived in Aruba.

Or why they want to believe in such outlandish crap such as she was whisked off in a Med Jet, she was pregnant, Jug and her crap, or she ran away.

The facts are, according to the boys words,

A) She left with Joran, Depaak, and Satish
B) At least Joran had sexual relations, other than intercourse with her, while she was unable to give consent.
C) Joran claims something bad happened to her.
D) Depaak claims Joran did a violent act since he said Joran was looking at 10-15 yrs
E) Joran claims she was buried at the fisherman's hut.
F) She was moved from her original burial site as she was not found there.
G) Depaak claims that Paulus was involved in something other than the no body no case
H) Paulus told the boys in advice prior to the 10 days when they were arrested, no body no case. Paulus already knew then she was dead.
I) Anita saw the Natalee's panties so Joran had them, I hope, so sex did occur.
J) Paulus lied repeated about his whereabouts on the night she disappeared, which is why he was expelled from the judge program and why he was arrested.


Maybe this time I got it together!!!!!!!

[Buckeye]

These psychics and their stories have been around for two years.  The KPLD has also been around for two years.  I would guess all scenarios have been investigated (like Mos said).

I have been reading around the Dutch message boards and this comment pretty much sums it up:

Minister Croes vindt dat, nu de zaak tegen Joran c.s. tot niets heeft geleid, er door het OM serieus naar andere scenario's moet worden gekeken.'
Je zou toch verwachten dat ze alle scenario's gelijktijdig zouden bekijken en niet stuk voor stuk. Dan zijn ze over twintig jaar misschien nog bezig. Of waren ze misschien bang voor de macht van de ouders van Natalee en voor Fox TV?

Minister Croes finds that, now the affairs against Joran c. s. till nothing have led, there through the OM seriously to other scenarios must be looked.'  You really would expect that they all scenarios simultaneously would look at and not one by one.  Then they are twenty year from now perhaps yet busy.  Were or they perhaps fearful for the power of the parents of Natalee and for Fox TV? 

 

[private eye]

These psychics and their stories have been around for two years.  The KPLD has also been around for two years.  I would guess all scenarios have been investigated (like Mos said).

I have been reading around the Dutch message boards and this comment pretty much sums it up:

Minister Croes vindt dat, nu de zaak tegen Joran c.s. tot niets heeft geleid, er door het OM serieus naar andere scenario's moet worden gekeken.'
Je zou toch verwachten dat ze alle scenario's gelijktijdig zouden bekijken en niet stuk voor stuk. Dan zijn ze over twintig jaar misschien nog bezig. Of waren ze misschien bang voor de macht van de ouders van Natalee en voor Fox TV?

Minister Croes finds that, now the affairs against Joran c. s. till nothing have led, there through the OM seriously to other scenarios must be looked.'  You really would expect that they all scenarios simultaneously would look at and not one by one.  Then they are twenty year from now perhaps yet busy.  Were or they perhaps fearful for the power of the parents of Natalee and for Fox TV? 

 

Portugal sure used the bash the victim to the fullest against the Doctors who lost their baby. Suggesting that they hid a body for 20+ days, and then placed it in a rental car in which they hauled the body off and disposed of it where the police can't find it in a foreign country with all of the media attention. Forced them out of Portugal and placed them on the defensive instead of forcing Portugal to investigate. Is that the new protocol as a result of Natalee?

[private eye]

These psychics and their stories have been around for two years.  The KPLD has also been around for two years.  I would guess all scenarios have been investigated (like Mos said).

I have been reading around the Dutch message boards and this comment pretty much sums it up:

Minister Croes vindt dat, nu de zaak tegen Joran c.s. tot niets heeft geleid, er door het OM serieus naar andere scenario's moet worden gekeken.'
Je zou toch verwachten dat ze alle scenario's gelijktijdig zouden bekijken en niet stuk voor stuk. Dan zijn ze over twintig jaar misschien nog bezig. Of waren ze misschien bang voor de macht van de ouders van Natalee en voor Fox TV?

Minister Croes finds that, now the affairs against Joran c. s. till nothing have led, there through the OM seriously to other scenarios must be looked.'  You really would expect that they all scenarios simultaneously would look at and not one by one.  Then they are twenty year from now perhaps yet busy.  Were or they perhaps fearful for the power of the parents of Natalee and for Fox TV? 

 

These people are so busy lying that they don't have a lot of time to investigate very rapidly, and apparently the only thing Rudy can multi task is sex with his slaves, all 3 of them:)

[private eye]

These psychics and their stories have been around for two years.  The KPLD has also been around for two years.  I would guess all scenarios have been investigated (like Mos said).

I have been reading around the Dutch message boards and this comment pretty much sums it up:

Minister Croes vindt dat, nu de zaak tegen Joran c.s. tot niets heeft geleid, er door het OM serieus naar andere scenario's moet worden gekeken.'
Je zou toch verwachten dat ze alle scenario's gelijktijdig zouden bekijken en niet stuk voor stuk. Dan zijn ze over twintig jaar misschien nog bezig. Of waren ze misschien bang voor de macht van de ouders van Natalee en voor Fox TV?

Minister Croes finds that, now the affairs against Joran c. s. till nothing have led, there through the OM seriously to other scenarios must be looked.'  You really would expect that they all scenarios simultaneously would look at and not one by one.  Then they are twenty year from now perhaps yet busy.  Were or they perhaps fearful for the power of the parents of Natalee and for Fox TV? 

 

These people are so busy lying that they don't have a lot of time to investigate very rapidly, and apparently the only thing Rudy can multi task is sex with his slaves, all 3 of them:)

I bet the slaves crochet or read the comics while he is multitasking  them:))

[Buckeye]

I don't, for a minute, believe that these scenarios were not examined.  These would have been the first things they would have gone for.  Heck, I bet they were offering money to have witnesses say stuff.  The KPLD looked into the case.  I have to believe it included everything.  The conclusion was the same as ours.  We can debate why there is no physical evidence to get a conviction, but we certainly cannot debate that the investigation came to the same conclusion that we did.

It is a little like "Wag the Dog".  The Ministers want to support and create a situation that is not there.  I am just amazed that the best they have to offer are a Curacao reporter and two psychics.  Why their advisors seem to keep giving them bad PR advise is beyond me. No legitimate network, in the US or the Netherlands, is going to broadcast this crap.

[Blue Moon]

I said this last night and will repeat it today---This is the proof Joe Taco said he has that proves his client is totally innocent.  Is he trying to force Beth into a law suit in the U.S. so he can get her on the stand?  If so he is baiting her and that is soooooo evil (MOO).  He is the spokesperson for AHATA and he is behind all of this. No wonder he did not show his face on camera after the wine-throwing incident.     

(MOO)

[Tamikosmom]

Glenda  PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:25 pm         

HannieC wrote:
How about those other 2 clairvoyants, i forgot their names, who were also in Aruba in the beginning of the case.....

Or did they say something which was out of the "partyline"...?


Daniel and ??? and they were also here during the filming of the show.

Glenda

Daniel's story goes like this: Joran left Natalee at a sex party at his half-brother Lorenzo's house in Savaneta. Natalee hung out there on her own free will for 9 or 10 days all the while she knew her parents were on the island and looking for her. Then she was walking along some rocks by baby beach with "Pitbull", slipped and bonked her head and died. Pitbull, Scooby, Lorenzo and Boeti buried her near the Animal Cemetery and they told the ALE about this in 2006. Then the story goes that the ALE inclusive of Dennis Jacobs and Gerald Dompig, dug up and moved the body to the sand dunes at the Lighthouse to frame J2K.

That is quite a theory!

Maybe ... just maybe ... Tamikosmom's theory would be taken seriously by Edison Briesen and Rudy Croes if she claimed that she had a visionary experience where all was revealed and ... the loaded pizza slice she consumed the prior evening had no connection.

Janet

+++++++++++++

Amigoe
January 17, 2008

ORANJESTAD — Minister Rudy Croes (MEP) of Justice is of the opinion that the findings of the two American investigators Daniel Young and Kelly Castillo in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway, must be seriously considered. The two assert that Natalee’s stepfather Jug Twitty has abused and impregnated her and that her mother Beth knew about it. The two also say that Natalee had died from an overdose two weeks after the night on the beach with Joran van der Sloot when she disappeared. “Joran is innocent”, said the investigators.

<snipped>

The two private detectors could be elaborately heard and seen on radio and TV in local current affairs programs yesterday. TeleAruba spent half of her daily news program on an interview with Castillo and Young, who also call themselves ‘mediums’. They were also in Aruba last year, but there was hardly any attention paid to their stories. Not even Minister Croes, who at that time, two years ago, called them ‘Indian stories’.

It was Tourism-minister Edison Briesen that introduced them to Croes, because he thought that the information was important enough to be included in the judicial investigation.
 
Croes is of the opinion that now that the case against the suspects Joran and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe has brought no results, the Public Prosecution must also consider other scenarios. Castillo and Young’s findings must therefore be seriously investigated, said the minister. “After Beth has been in Oprah’s program, it will be good to tell the other side of the story.” Oprah Winfrey has spent some time on the Holiday-matter in her show yesterday.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amigoe.com%2Fartman%2Fpublish%2Fartikel_38773.php
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_38773.php
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2527.msg329756#msg329756

[klaasend]

Posted by Glenda at RU:

No, two years ago, I had no way to prove that they were or were not correct in their accusations.  I couldn't ask Lorenzo, he was in Jail, I couldn't find Scooby either, the part about the ALE moving Natalee's remains around, highly doubtful, but same thing, couldn't prove if it was true or not.  They said Natalee's friends (Maynard and Mary Ann Smith) told them of Jugs abuse to Natalee and they had an incriminating tape of Beth and one of her friends.

I don't believe they have any valid information...  I don't know about this fight time arrival paper, it appears to be real, but I trust that the OM will get down to the bottom of this. Whether they will make a public statement or not, I seriously hope so.

So according to Renfro, Lorenzo was in jail 2 years ago??

[SunnyinTX]

o/t for a moment. I am going to my 1st "adult" party...nothing kinky...lol...I mean 1st party that does not involve a 7 year old and a birthday cake in over a year and a half!!! My girlfriend talked me into it and now she is a no-show. But I am all dressed up in my new outfit and my little man is staying with my brother so hi-ho- hi-ho...it's off to the party I go (by myself) Wish me luck!!! feeling brave tonight!!! lol
And Sunnyintx laughed at me!!! SEE!!! I did it Sunny!!!

hahaahaha...I hope you went and had a wonderful time!  adult party huh? 

[Pita]

Posted by Glenda at RU:

No, two years ago, I had no way to prove that they were or were not correct in their accusations.  I couldn't ask Lorenzo, he was in Jail, I couldn't find Scooby either, the part about the ALE moving Natalee's remains around, highly doubtful, but same thing, couldn't prove if it was true or not.  They said Natalee's friends (Maynard and Mary Ann Smith) told them of Jugs abuse to Natalee and they had an incriminating tape of Beth and one of her friends.

I don't believe they have any valid information...  I don't know about this fight time arrival paper, it appears to be real, but I trust that the OM will get down to the bottom of this. Whether they will make a public statement or not, I seriously hope so.

So according to Renfro, Lorenzo was in jail 2 years ago??

Maybe somebody can verify that with Jossy?   

[klaasend]

Glenda/Renfro back peddling and they aren't buying it 

[SunnyinTX]

Posted by Glenda at RU:

What happened to Daniel's file 13 tape?

Daniel and Kelly sent it to so many people including Karin Jansen, why do they want it back from only Julia? The following is a letter from Roger.

1. Kelly and Daniel approached Anita and told her about the tape (and allowed her to hear it and gave her a copy). Kelly and Daniel said they wanted to make it public. They really sold Anita quite a bill of goods telling her they had proof of Joran's innocence and Anita was an easy target for them. So Roger is finally admitting he has been in cahoots with the van der sloots

2. Anita suggested that perhaps Scrux could host it on the internet, the way Scrux had hosted the Skeeters recording. So anita is the controller of Scrux liars board...interesting

3. Anita provided Kelly and Daniel with Roger's (my) email address (because I had done some earlier correspondence with Anita about something else). yeah I'll bet

4. Kelly Castillo wrote to me (as Roger) asking if I could host it on Scrux.

5. At the time, I wanted my personal identity to remain anonymous  and I wrote Jan to see if she would receive it for me (because she had been pretty open about publishing her real name for other things). She said ok and I then referred Kelly to her and Jan then emailed Kelly her street address, whereupon she sent Jan the tape. Jan then transferred it digitally and uploaded a copy to me. more spiders in the spider web of lies and liars

6. After I listened to it, I realized that without Beth's permission, that has been the ONLY smart thing he did  it couldn't be published. Not because Beth's words can't be published, but because in the recording, Beth specifically is angered (rightly so) when late in the tape Daniel tells her that this conversation is being recorded and Beth says point-blank that she doesn't want that and didn't give her permission and hangs up. Here in this country the laws are strange about recordings. If someone denies permission, then to publish that recording becomes a criminal matter (not just civil).

7. So, I gave Jan a suggested wording and she wrote Kelly explaining that it wouldn't be published by Scrux.

8. Even more important was that Daniel came off as really a demanding, unreasonable jerk and Beth as quite gracious and polite. Her comment about not wanting to know who Natalee was with last is taken entirely out of context and really was Beth saying that she didn't care "who was with Natalee last," as much as she did, "where Natalee is right now." He was saying they were psychics who knew where Natalee was and Beth kept asking "where," and he was playing games with that (like he might tell her later). It's quite a distortion to say Beth said she didn't care who she was with last, when you realize that she was saying that such things weren't as important as wanting to know first "where Natalee is."

9. I would have gladly published it to clarify what they were saying as nonsense, but with Beth outright saying she didn't want her phone conversation recorded and hanging up after saying that... that stopped me cold from publishing it. I asked Jon (who I set up as the new Scrux forum admin) to write Beth for permission to post it and he did, but she never responded, so it remained unpublished.

10. Publishing Skeeters is another matter. The recordings were provided as possible evidence by Skeeters to the police and he said he had proper ownership. The police gave them to me. My publishing those recordings was the best thing that could have happened to Deepak, because they cleared his name (not slandered him). Shows more corrupton from the ALE

[Red]

Posted by Glenda at RU:

No, two years ago, I had no way to prove that they were or were not correct in their accusations.  I couldn't ask Lorenzo, he was in Jail, I couldn't find Scooby either, the part about the ALE moving Natalee's remains around, highly doubtful, but same thing, couldn't prove if it was true or not.  They said Natalee's friends (Maynard and Mary Ann Smith) told them of Jugs abuse to Natalee and they had an incriminating tape of Beth and one of her friends.

I don't believe they have any valid information...  I don't know about this fight time arrival paper, it appears to be real, but I trust that the OM will get down to the bottom of this. Whether they will make a public statement or not, I seriously hope so.

So according to Renfro, Lorenzo was in jail 2 years ago??

I find it rather poetic justice that Julia is being questioned by the very people that have believed her hook, line and sinker. Then JR deals with these two nuts because they have a common enemy against Beth. Now it all comes home to roost for Glenda.

You know what they say JR ...

When you lie down with flees, you get dogs

[SunnyinTX]

Glenda explaining when she realized Kelly and Castillo were frauds, lol 

so she is posting in the first person

[SunnyinTX]

Watching this implosion is fun 

I am reading about it here and enjoying the heck out of it

[SunnyinTX]

Watching this implosion is fun 

Glendas Julias gonna snap

What the 2 freaks said on the tape was that Julia still has evidence that she is not giving up.  The RU people just cant get that straight.

LOL.....I hope the ALE arrest renho!  LOL

[robots]

this is hilarious

"mmmmmm...mmmmm let me eat another one of my own"

[klaasend]

Posted by Glenda at RU:

No, two years ago, I had no way to prove that they were or were not correct in their accusations.  I couldn't ask Lorenzo, he was in Jail, I couldn't find Scooby either, the part about the ALE moving Natalee's remains around, highly doubtful, but same thing, couldn't prove if it was true or not.  They said Natalee's friends (Maynard and Mary Ann Smith) told them of Jugs abuse to Natalee and they had an incriminating tape of Beth and one of her friends.

I don't believe they have any valid information...  I don't know about this fight time arrival paper, it appears to be real, but I trust that the OM will get down to the bottom of this. Whether they will make a public statement or not, I seriously hope so.

So according to Renfro, Lorenzo was in jail 2 years ago??

I find it rather poetic justice that Julia is being questioned by the very people that have believed her hook, line and sinker. Then JR deals with these two nuts because they have a common enemy against Beth. Now it all comes home to roost for Glenda.

You know what they say JR ...

When you lie down with flees, you get dogs

Glenda/Renfro spent hours last night and again this morning trying to twist and defend what she has said for the last 2 years.  It's not working and I love it.