Natalee Case Discussion #713 1/16 - 1/20/08

[JuJu]

Klaas, I went to the site you linked for the Aru-Bay videos.  Has anyone ever been able to see the natalee movie 3?

[Tylergal]

Now, supposedly, we have this super secret evidence tape.  Julia is hoping the ALE can identify the people in it.

So....how did Daniel and Kelly get their hands on this evidence, to not only view it, but to come all the way from the states to name the perpetrators....that the ALE and KPLD cannot identify?

What is going on??  My best guess is that there has been a meeting at the Van der Sloots to review the file (of which they have a copy) and a team has been put into place to try and save the image of the Sporter and of course, the island.  or.....should I believe that the island is corrupt enough that evidence was shared with reporters??

according to aruba steve, ahata and ata's joint group had copies of all the police reports including f.b.i. statements and they were all hard at work studying them.  this was in late 2005.  i doubt anything changed after that.
dennisintn

It is my understanding, and someone/anyone, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that AHATA/ATA had become "deputized" sotaspeak to find Natalee's killers in Mountain Brook.  (sat off)

So, would that make StinkyPete a deputy 

Well, they were all Wang Chung dancing, it was so disgracing, so reverberating, so Wiccan if you will.

[Buckeye]

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC.  NOT FOR THE WEARY.

Here is a picture that was in the A.M. Digital of Pitbull's body that was found in Quadirikiri Cave.

Poor Soul.

Can't imagine having this as the last picture his family sees.

[San]

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC.  NOT FOR THE WEARY.

Here is a picture that was in the A.M. Digital of Pitbull's body that was found in Quadirikiri Cave.

Poor Soul.

Can't imagine having this as the last picture his family sees.

My dream is to see a picture of Joran like this one day.

[klaasend]

Klaas, I went to the site you linked for the Aru-Bay videos.  Has anyone ever been able to see the natalee movie 3?

No and the link has been sent to the FBI back in 2005.  I don't know if they were able to access.   

[Tylergal]

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC.  NOT FOR THE WEARY.

Here is a picture that was in the A.M. Digital of Pitbull's body that was found in Quadirikiri Cave.

Not surprised, San.  I know that bothers a lot of people but this is reality and to think this could not happen to any one of us or our children is ridiculous -- if we are involved in something illegal like this and even if we just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, which may be what happened to Natalee.  I am not saying she ingested drugs and they burned her, but an innocent little trip to Aruba from a girl whose life had been lived in a goldfish bowl, who did not know the type of low-lives she was dealing with when she left with the 3 amigoes, whose lives were built around ensnaring girls from America, the targets of their games, who would drug them and rape them, send them home less than how they arrived and think somehow it was fun.... well, for me that is as low down as killing someone and should get them the death penalty in each case.  I think there should be laws about preying on tourists, girls, in particular, but I believe there is a segment of bisexual or homosexual activity in Aruba that preys on men as well as was evidenced by some of the sites we visited, where the 2 guys went to Aruba and were lured away from each other.  Fortunately, nothing happened but I think it could have.  I cannot recall the names of the guys involved but I am sure Hammer and/or Klaas will recal. 

No, the picture in and of itself does not bother me but the real story of how he got to this place is what bothers me.  Knowing why and what happened to him and has happened to others and will happen repeatedly to those who are involved in drug trade in anyway.  It bothers me that local men who are willing participants in using drugs and forcing them on others, local men in Aruba who hold the trump cards are  doing such disgusting things, and that causes me nightmares knowing that God did not make us for this purpose, He did not make us to desecrate and demean His children, all of whom we are.  He did not make us that we would make this world a cruder and crueler place, but to make it a better place.  The coarseness and crudeness is a place we have come as a world.  The Bible warned us about money being the root of all evil and drugs are the root of the money.  So did the chicken come before the egg or vice versa?

[klaasend]

Tylergal - it was Brian Battjer, Jr.

http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/frame_index.html

We got into Ramses car and he drove us (s l o w l y) to Alexandra's apartment. On the way there, Scott fell asleep in the front seat - when we got to Alexandra's, (it's totally daylight now and she lives in a tiny little apt/house in this weird neighboorhood of identical houses and there are roosters crowing) she and I got out of the car and Ramses started to drive away with Scott. I was like "Whoa! Where is he taking him? Aren't we staying here? " Alexandra was like "You are. He's going back to Ramses; place." I was like "Oh, no, no. We're a package deal." I chased down Ramses and hopped back into his (moving) car, and told him Scott was coming with me. He got pissed and he and Alexandra started speaking heatedly in Papiamentu (the local language is a pidgin mix of Spanish, Dutch, French and English).

In the end, Ramses relented and Alex and I woke Scott and got him out of the car. We got into Alex's apartment and immediately understood the problem, there was only one bedroom and she shared with her female roommate. Luckily, she wasn't home, so Scott crashed the f*** out on the couch and I hopped in Alex's bed

[klaasend]

And so it continues 

[Tylergal]

Tylergal - it was Brian Battjer, Jr.

http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/frame_index.html

We got into Ramses car and he drove us (s l o w l y) to Alexandra's apartment. On the way there, Scott fell asleep in the front seat - when we got to Alexandra's, (it's totally daylight now and she lives in a tiny little apt/house in this weird neighboorhood of identical houses and there are roosters crowing) she and I got out of the car and Ramses started to drive away with Scott. I was like "Whoa! Where is he taking him? Aren't we staying here? " Alexandra was like "You are. He's going back to Ramses; place." I was like "Oh, no, no. We're a package deal." I chased down Ramses and hopped back into his (moving) car, and told him Scott was coming with me. He got pissed and he and Alexandra started speaking heatedly in Papiamentu (the local language is a pidgin mix of Spanish, Dutch, French and English).

In the end, Ramses relented and Alex and I woke Scott and got him out of the car. We got into Alex's apartment and immediately understood the problem, there was only one bedroom and she shared with her female roommate. Luckily, she wasn't home, so Scott crashed the f*** out on the couch and I hopped in Alex's bed

Klaas, there has never been a "hall" monitor like you.  Your mind soaks up knowledge like a sponge soaks up water.  No question about it.  Nobody is anywhere near your equal.

I think as a second person you could write Aruba's "As I Lay Dying," or wait, did Joran do that with his "tour de force," book in which truth was often allowed to overlap the lies.  Is this Aruba's story that he has already written?  Will students of the last part of the last part of the 21st century read this while they study Aruba and its gold rush, its oil refinery as a part of history where capitalism began and once it had flourished, venture capitalists from the USA came to partner with Arubans to offer them a way to provide income for the many impoverished peoples of the area, only to have the South American druglords and American gamblers game it for themselves, to make Aruba a marketplace for drug lords and ne'er do wells, a place where those who had found difficulty in their motherland of the Netherlands, would come and build a life for their offspring, only to become a part of the trafficking of humans, of drugs, gambling and rather than offer them a better life, they placed their children's moral and mental culture at risk and some even led their own children by jointly participating, into the valley of the shadow of death?  Will this be the story of Aruba, "As I Lay Dying..."  Will students in a new land study this model as a way not to allow history to repeat itself.

[Tylergal]

If you ever had any doubt about Chavez' intention and his character as a leader, this is a must-read.  Remember that Oduber and Aruba's finest have been rubbing elbows with the "father of populism."

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/venezuela/story/386592.html

[Anna]

I do NOT believe Scooby was involved in any way with Natalee's disappearance, just another red herring fabricated by YKW but for those who like to have a face to attach to all these names, here are a couple of photos of him







He seems like the sort to seek attention and so might insinuate himself into any situation where he could get just that.

In my opinion only

.

[Tamikosmom]

Posted by Glenda at RU:

What happened to Daniel's file 13 tape?]

Daniel and Kelly sent it to so many people including Karin Jansen, why do they want it back from only Julia? The following is a letter from Roger.

1. Kelly and Daniel approached Anita and told her about the tape (and allowed her to hear it and gave her a copy). Kelly and Daniel said they wanted to make it public. They really sold Anita quite a bill of goods telling her they had proof of Joran's innocence and Anita was an easy target for them.

2. Anita suggested that perhaps Scrux could host it on the internet, the way Scrux had hosted the Skeeters recording.

3. Anita provided Kelly and Daniel with Roger's (my) email address (because I had done some earlier correspondence with Anita about something else).

4. Kelly Castillo wrote to me (as Roger) asking if I could host it on Scrux.

5. At the time, I wanted my personal identity to remain anonymous and I wrote Jan to see if she would receive it for me (because she had been pretty open about publishing her real name for other things). She said ok and I then referred Kelly to her and Jan then emailed Kelly her street address, whereupon she sent Jan the tape. Jan then transferred it digitally and uploaded a copy to me.

6. After I listened to it, I realized that without Beth's permission, it couldn't be published. Not because Beth's words can't be published, but because in the recording, Beth specifically is angered (rightly so) when late in the tape Daniel tells her that this conversation is being recorded and Beth says point-blank that she doesn't want that and didn't give her permission and hangs up. Here in this country the laws are strange about recordings. If someone denies permission, then to publish that recording becomes a criminal matter (not just civil).

7. So, I gave Jan a suggested wording and she wrote Kelly explaining that it wouldn't be published by Scrux.

8. Even more important was that Daniel came off as really a demanding, unreasonable jerk and Beth as quite gracious and polite. Her comment about not wanting to know who Natalee was with last is taken entirely out of context and really was Beth saying that she didn't care "who was with Natalee last," as much as she did, "where Natalee is right now." He was saying they were psychics who knew where Natalee was and Beth kept asking "where," and he was playing games with that (like he might tell her later). It's quite a distortion to say Beth said she didn't care who she was with last, when you realize that she was saying that such things weren't as important as wanting to know first "where Natalee is."

9. I would have gladly published it to clarify what they were saying as nonsense, but with Beth outright saying she didn't want her phone conversation recorded and hanging up after saying that... that stopped me cold from publishing it. I asked Jon (who I set up as the new Scrux forum admin) to write Beth for permission to post it and he did, but she never responded, so it remained unpublished.

10. Publishing Skeeters is another matter. The recordings were provided as possible evidence by Skeeters to the police and he said he had proper ownership. The police gave them to me. My publishing those recordings was the best thing that could have happened to Deepak, because they cleared his name (not slandered him).

Roger claimed that the ALE provided him "directly" with the Skeeters' tape.  Julia claims that she was given the Skeeters' tape.  Obviously ... there has been an Julia/ALE connection regarding misinformation in the Natalee Holloway case from the getgo.

Janet

+++++++


http://www.scrux.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=118

Roger:

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: Is our Skeeters recording fake?

<snipped>

I only know what I have been told. I received the recording directly from the Aruban Police Department.

[CapsLockWizard]

Klaas, I went to the site you linked for the Aru-Bay videos.  Has anyone ever been able to see the natalee movie 3?

No and the link has been sent to the FBI back in 2005.  I don't know if they were able to access.   

Klaasend:

 I am downloding the videos now, all of them, They are quit large and when the download it over, I will watch them and let you know.

[klaasend]

Anna - I agree, Scooby has nothing to do with the case, he's a red herring.

Tyler - no doubt Chavez/Oduber friendship is getting stronger

Janet - Yes, Renfro (Bondia/Glenda) has been instrumental in the ALE misinformation campaign from the very beginning. 

[klaasend]

Klaas, I went to the site you linked for the Aru-Bay videos.  Has anyone ever been able to see the natalee movie 3?

No and the link has been sent to the FBI back in 2005.  I don't know if they were able to access.   

Klaasend:

 I am downloding the videos now, all of them, They are quit large and when the download it over, I will watch them and let you know.

CapsLock - great!  I will be very surprised if you are able to view Natalee Video 3 though.  I have downloaded all the videos myself (except those that are access forbidden) and they are also hosted on Google.  Just to let you know.

[klaasend]

I love it when Renfro is caught in her own lies 

[Tylergal]

Posted by Glenda at RU:

What happened to Daniel's file 13 tape?]

Daniel and Kelly sent it to so many people including Karin Jansen, why do they want it back from only Julia? The following is a letter from Roger.

1. Kelly and Daniel approached Anita and told her about the tape (and allowed her to hear it and gave her a copy). Kelly and Daniel said they wanted to make it public. They really sold Anita quite a bill of goods telling her they had proof of Joran's innocence and Anita was an easy target for them.

2. Anita suggested that perhaps Scrux could host it on the internet, the way Scrux had hosted the Skeeters recording.

3. Anita provided Kelly and Daniel with Roger's (my) email address (because I had done some earlier correspondence with Anita about something else).

4. Kelly Castillo wrote to me (as Roger) asking if I could host it on Scrux.

5. At the time, I wanted my personal identity to remain anonymous and I wrote Jan to see if she would receive it for me (because she had been pretty open about publishing her real name for other things). She said ok and I then referred Kelly to her and Jan then emailed Kelly her street address, whereupon she sent Jan the tape. Jan then transferred it digitally and uploaded a copy to me.

6. After I listened to it, I realized that without Beth's permission, it couldn't be published. Not because Beth's words can't be published, but because in the recording, Beth specifically is angered (rightly so) when late in the tape Daniel tells her that this conversation is being recorded and Beth says point-blank that she doesn't want that and didn't give her permission and hangs up. Here in this country the laws are strange about recordings. If someone denies permission, then to publish that recording becomes a criminal matter (not just civil).

7. So, I gave Jan a suggested wording and she wrote Kelly explaining that it wouldn't be published by Scrux.

8. Even more important was that Daniel came off as really a demanding, unreasonable jerk and Beth as quite gracious and polite. Her comment about not wanting to know who Natalee was with last is taken entirely out of context and really was Beth saying that she didn't care "who was with Natalee last," as much as she did, "where Natalee is right now." He was saying they were psychics who knew where Natalee was and Beth kept asking "where," and he was playing games with that (like he might tell her later). It's quite a distortion to say Beth said she didn't care who she was with last, when you realize that she was saying that such things weren't as important as wanting to know first "where Natalee is."

9. I would have gladly published it to clarify what they were saying as nonsense, but with Beth outright saying she didn't want her phone conversation recorded and hanging up after saying that... that stopped me cold from publishing it. I asked Jon (who I set up as the new Scrux forum admin) to write Beth for permission to post it and he did, but she never responded, so it remained unpublished.

10. Publishing Skeeters is another matter. The recordings were provided as possible evidence by Skeeters to the police and he said he had proper ownership. The police gave them to me. My publishing those recordings was the best thing that could have happened to Deepak, because they cleared his name (not slandered him).

Roger claimed that the ALE provided him "directly" with the Skeeters' tape.  Julia claims that she was given the Skeeters' tape.  Obviously ... there has been an Julia/ALE connection regarding misinformation in the Natalee Holloway case from the getgo.

Janet

+++++++


http://www.scrux.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=118

Roger:

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: Is our Skeeters recording fake?

<snipped>

I only know what I have been told. I received the recording directly from the Aruban Police Department.

Oh, they have all been deputized to spin the tale on the donkey and they spun so fast and so hard, they each became donkeys and started pinning it on each other's tales (note difference in spelling).

[Tylergal]

Anna - I agree, Scooby has nothing to do with the case, he's a red herring.

Tyler - no doubt Chavez/Oduber friendship is getting stronger

Janet - Yes, Renfro (Bondia/Glenda) has been instrumental in the ALE misinformation campaign from the very beginning. 

Yes, but admitting to his National Assembly that he partakes of coca daily.  That is a neat way of saying, "I am coke freak."

[Tamikosmom]

Do all of you really believe this latest "turn of events'?

PI ....I believe that "powers that be" in the coverup along with the likes of Julia Renfro collaborated to distract from Beth's appearance on the Oprah Winfrey show ... the Oprah Winfrey show which gave Beth a platforum to millions of viewers ... a platform to promote Beth's book LOVING NATALEE which has the potential of exposing the corrupt Aruban investigation that has denied an eighteen year old American citizen the justice she is entitled to under Dutch law.

I also believe that Young and Castillo were used to play a role in the rrecent distraction.  Think about it ... two years ago Croes deemed the so-called findings of these two as "Indian Stories".

However ... I contend that the "press conference" regarding the "findings" of Young and Castillo went beyond what the "powers that be" and the likes of Julia Renfro expected.  Young and  Castillo's words were vile despicable "accusations" against Jug and Beth ... not vile despicable "insinuations" that have been spewed by Julia in the past.

False accusations are legally liable ... false insinuations are not.  I believe that this is the reason that Julia is attempting to distance herself from vile despicable words that were spewed in that so-called press conference.

Anybody who is familar with Julia/Glenda's posts will recognize that her position regarding Jug and Beth mirrors Young and Castillo but ... her delivery in the past implied that her words were her own opinion ... he words stopped short of accusations that could be consider as legally liable.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Amigoe
January 17, 2008

ORANJESTAD — Minister Rudy Croes (MEP) of Justice is of the opinion that the findings of the two American investigators Daniel Young and Kelly Castillo in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway, must be seriously considered. The two assert that Natalee’s stepfather Jug Twitty has abused and impregnated her and that her mother Beth knew about it. The two also say that Natalee had died from an overdose two weeks after the night on the beach with Joran van der Sloot when she disappeared. “Joran is innocent”, said the investigators.

<snipped>

The two private detectors could be elaborately heard and seen on radio and TV in local current affairs programs yesterday. TeleAruba spent half of her daily news program on an interview with Castillo and Young, who also call themselves ‘mediums’. They were also in Aruba last year, but there was hardly any attention paid to their stories. Not even Minister Croes, who at that time, two years ago, called them ‘Indian stories’.

It was Tourism-minister Edison Briesen that introduced them to Croes, because he thought that the information was important enough to be included in the judicial investigation.
 
Croes is of the opinion that now that the case against the suspects Joran and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe has brought no results, the Public Prosecution must also consider other scenarios. Castillo and Young’s findings must therefore be seriously investigated, said the minister. “After Beth has been in Oprah’s program, it will be good to tell the other side of the story.” Oprah Winfrey has spent some time on the Holiday-matter in her show yesterday.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amigoe.com%2Fartman%2Fpublish%2Fartikel_38773.php
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_38773.php
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2527.msg329756#msg329756

[Angiex911dsptchr]

OT.. sorry

Klaas you got mail at  "C"