Natalee Case Discussion #714 1/20 - 1/25/08

[Anna]

Bill Kurtis

http://www.aetv.com/american_justice/index.jsp

Over on the Left, I see there is a place for DISCUSSIONS!

Our specialty!  Bet we can add a few comments there after he does this program just in case he misses anything, lol!

.

[hotping]

Hotping,

Thanks.  I have never watched that very much but will watch to see how the program is and what it covers.  I do see it in my programming guide so I know I can get it.

 

You're Welcome! I will also be watching to see when it airs....I just wanted Everyone to know that about a week or so ago LegallyLex on BFN stated that Dateline was not on the Boat (Persistence) at that time....I do not know if They are there now,though.

[Tylergal]

Julia Renfro inserted herself into the picture right out of the gate.  Diverting and misinforming the family at every turn, and  spreading rumors in her spare time.  IMO, putting up posters with her own cell phone number for a tip line, is obstructing the investigation right out of the gate, but seems the crack ALE thought it was OK.

Does anyone know when Natalee's family became aware that Julia Renfro was a very good friend of the SLOOTS?

TIA

Helen...just a guess on my part...I would think they knew for sure the night renHO went on TV talking about how jvs went to school the next day and did his exams....this is the night renHO claims Jug pushed her.....lies. lies and ,lies!!

Which is the exact date I am talking about, when all were released save the 3 amigoes.  She appeared on TV that night defending not only Joran but also Steve Croes and what a good friend he was to try to help out and just an innocent young man who had wanted to help friends.  Then she lied about Joran's "aced" his exams which no one could have known the scores at that time as AP exams take weeks to months to return the results and NO, NO ARUBAN can get those results ,not even universities can get them for scholarships until the time Princeton releases them to the schools and a carbon copy is sent to the student himself/herself, not to be opened by parents, just the students.

[Anna]

Even though I have not watched it much, I do recall how Bill Curtis sounds and looks and he is very credible.

Compare and contrast with certain other so-called journalists who do not come across quite so well.  That would be all of them from Aruba. 

Curtis is more in the league with DeVries but more dignified, IMO, classy.  Quite a presence and voice. 

IMO

Why would Renee Gielen continue to pursue this after Mos has said her prime sources have no credibility?  She has to be basing that on the psychos, doesn't she?  Or is Julia her source for everything?

Who is feeding her this misinformation besides Alberto G who is afraid to give his last name but everybody already knows it?

Is it Julia or the psycho psychics?  With a touch of Boeti just for that extra unreliability?  Where is she getting her crap?

.

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_39022.php

Tijdlijn Beth klopt niet
23 Jan, 2008, 18:54 (GMT -04:00)

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  WILLEMSTAD/ORANJESTAD — Moeder Beth van Natalee Holloway heeft onjuiste informatie verstrekt over het tijdstip waarop zij met een private jet op 30 mei 2005 landde op Aruba. Dit was niet ‘rond elf uur ‘s avonds’, zoals ze tot nu toe verklaarde – ook in haar eind vorig jaar verschenen boek – maar een paar uur eerder, namelijk al om kwart voor acht. Dit zegt Alberto G. voor camera van de Curaçaose tv-producent Renée Gielen, die bezig is met een documentaire over de verdwijning van het Amerikaanse tienermeisje en G. hierover vanmorgen interviewde.

Alberto G. (de Amigoe weet zijn naam, maar hij wil deze uit zelfbescherming niet openbaar maken) werkte in die tijd op het deel van de Reina Beatrix luchthaven waar privévliegtuigen parkeren. Hij was de eerste die Beth Twitty (toen nog getrouwd met Natalee’s stiefvader Jug Twitty) onderaan de vliegtuigtrap ontmoette, nadat hij het toestel had binnengeloodst. Vervolgens trad hij een tijdlang op als gids van de familie.

Op camera zegt hij nu zijn eerdere verklaring tegenover de politie in te trekken en een nieuwe te zullen afleggen. G. heeft zich vergist, stelt hij. De uitspraken vorige week van de Amerikanen Dan Young en Kelly Castillo, die zichzelf uitgeven voor ‘onderzoekers’ deden hem besluiten nog eens het een en ander te checken. Het blijkt dat hijzelf later die avond had uitgeklokt, namelijk iets na tien uur. G. vermoedt dat dit de reden moet zijn geweest dat hij ernaast zat wat betreft de tijd. Hij bevestigt de authenticiteit van de computeruitdraai die Young en Castillo lieten zien, waarop blijkt dat Beth al om kwart voor acht arriveerde.

Het motief van Natalee’s moeder om te liegen over haar aankomsttijd is niet helder. Ook niet bekend is of de politie er zelf eerder achterkwam dat het opgegeven tijdstip niet klopt. Oud-commissaris Gerald Dompig verklaarde eerder tegenover deze krant dat de politie indertijd de tijdlijn wel degelijk heeft onderzocht – vluchtgegevens plus luchtbewegingen – waarbij ook informatie van de luchtverkeersleiding op Curaçao is verkregen.

Het zegt volgens de documentairemaker wel iets over de deugdelijkheid van de beweringen van Beth. Gielen: “Ze moet meer geweten hebben.”

Dit zou ook blijken uit een andere verklaring van Alberto G., die herhaalt wat Young en Castillo zeiden, namelijk dat Beth in eerste instantie posters bij zich had waarop stond: ‘Please call me, hootie. I miss you and love you. Mom is here on Aruba and I really want to talk to you. Please call me on my local cell.’ De poster is ondertekend met ‘Big hootie’. Volgens Gielen werpt dit een ander licht op de zaak. “Beths tijdlijn klopt niet en ze wist meer.”


Through translator:

time line Beth is not correct

 23 Jan, 2008, 18.54 (GMT -04:00) E-mail this Article prints this Article

WILLEMSTAD/oranjestad - mother has supplied incorrect information on the time on which she landed with a private jet on 30 May 2005 on Aruba to Beth van Natalee Holloway. This not ` around eleven hours ` s evening, such as them so far explained - in its end previous year had also appeared book - but a couple hour rather, namely already for the quarter for eight. This says Alberto G. for camera of the Curaçaose tv-producent Renée Gielen, which is busy with a documentary concerning the disappearance of the American teenager little girl and G. interviewed about this vanmorgen. Alberto G. (the Amigoe weet are name, but he wants these from self-protection not public prove) worked in that time on the part of the Reina Beatrix airport privévliegtuigen to park. He was the first which Beth met Twitty (with Natalee's stiefvader then still married Jug Twitty) below the plane staircase, after he had the toestel binnengeloodst. Then he acted time-long as a guide of the family. On camera he says earlier withdraw declaration now its compared with the police force and new will take off. G. has been mistaken himself, puts he. The judgements last week of the Americans then Young and Kelly Castillo, who spend itself for ` research workers did him decide once more it and verify an other one. It appears that he himself had later that evening uitgeklokt, namely something after ten hours. G. suspects that this the reason must be that he zat concerning the time. He confirms the authenticity of the computer listing Young and Castillo showed which, on which appears that Beth arrived already for the quarter for eight. The aim of Natalee's mother to lie concerning its hour of arrival is not clear. Also it is not confessed or the police force there himself more earlier achterkwam that the given up time is not correct. Oud-commissaris Gerald Dompig explained rather compared with this newspaper that the police force originally the time line really has examined - flight data plus air movements - where also information of the air traffic control on Curaçao has been obtained. It says something according to the documentairemaker, however, concerning the soundness of the statements of Beth.  Gielen: Must have blamed "them more." This will become clear also from another declaration of Alberto G., which repeats what Young and Castillo said, namely that Beth had in the first place posters at itself on which stood: ` Please call me, hootie. I miss you and love you. Mom is complete on Aruba and I really because to tallow to you. Please call me on my local cell. The poster has been signed with ` piglet hootie. According to Gielen this throws another one slightly on the matter. "Beths time line are not correct and she knew more."


So this is all BS for the BS documentary
 

When you consider Paulus and Anita's words on the P&W SHOW in relation to the the happenings in Aruba regarding the Renée Gielen documentary ... this wannabe detective speculates a VDS connection.

Janet

+++++++++++++

Translation Credit - EURobert - FP Poster
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2522.msg328035;topicseen#msg328035

Anita and Paulus van der Sloot
P&W SHOW
January 11, 2008

Pauw: What should according to you be investigated that hasn’t been investigated yet?

Paulus: Well, what actually is very strange is that there has never been made a clear profile of the girl. What kind of a girl was she? Which contacts had that girl? I never saw anywhere something very simple, that the computer of the girl was looked into. I never saw that the family of the girl was investigated. Her friends… So actually where you have to start any investigation, the people that are closest to the victim has never been done!?

Peter: You forget the people she was last seen with….

Witt.: Yes I wanted to say that as well… You begin off course with the people she was last seen with. But your suggestion what could that mean.., when you look into her surroundings? What doing so, could possibly be found about what happened on that beach?

Anita: (Edited) We know people were seen at the beach, her room-card was used, there are people who claim they have seen Natalee the day after she went missing…

Witt.: There’s a statement by a cashier who says she first saw Natalee with a man who a short time later she saw without the girl. Has there been no proper investigation into these facts?

Paulus: Well it’s even stronger… There is a videorecording supposedly of Natalee but we untill now haven’t had access to that video.

Anita: (Edited) That’s a video of the entrance of the Holliday inn… And there was something strange with the first posters that Beth Twitty hung up. It read “Little Hoody please call Big Hoody” which suggests Natalee ran away. Anyway, I was under the impression that there was another story that I gladly would have seen investigated.

<snipped>

Pauw: Okay… We’re going to conclude our conversation at the table here… What would you still want to happen in this case?

Anita: I would want that the investigation would continue… Maybe Peter can help with that… Maybe we can talk after the show… Uuhhmm… I would as well very much would see an investigation into the investigation… I don’t know if we can have that hope but that… As long as this case isn’t solved all concerned will stay under enormous pressure and Joran will continually be pointed at (Edited).

Witt.: Do you think she’s dead?

Anita: I… don’t know. I have for a very long time kept believing she was still alive and I have being played information in my hands that supports that a.o. from Renée Gielen (Edited). I would so gladly see that the other side of the story was shown as well.

[Anna]

What OTHER side of the story is Anita talking about????

Only Natalee is missing from the face of the earth!

There is no other side of anything!

.

[Helen Back]

Julia Renfro inserted herself into the picture right out of the gate.  Diverting and misinforming the family at every turn, and  spreading rumors in her spare time.  IMO, putting up posters with her own cell phone number for a tip line, is obstructing the investigation right out of the gate, but seems the crack ALE thought it was OK.

Does anyone know when Natalee's family became aware that Julia Renfro was a very good friend of the SLOOTS?

TIA

Helen...just a guess on my part...I would think they knew for sure the night renHO went on TV talking about how jvs went to school the next day and did his exams....this is the night renHO claims Jug pushed her.....lies. lies and ,lies!!

Which is the exact date I am talking about, when all were released save the 3 amigoes.  She appeared on TV that night defending not only Joran but also Steve Croes and what a good friend he was to try to help out and just an innocent young man who had wanted to help friends.  Then she lied about Joran's "aced" his exams which no one could have known the scores at that time as AP exams take weeks to months to return the results and NO, NO ARUBAN can get those results ,not even universities can get them for scholarships until the time Princeton releases them to the schools and a carbon copy is sent to the student himself/herself, not to be opened by parents, just the students.

IMO, all roads as far as misinformation/ slandering of Natalee's family, Renee's crockumentary, The Psychics, etc. lead back to Julia Renfro. All ties in with Anna's question......Where is Renee getting her crap? 

IMO, Julia's involvement indicates more than just "towing the party/AHATA line".  Julia Renfro seems to be very vested on a personal level, right out of the gate. 

Once the attention was back on the Aruba three, and away from the security guards, guess Julia never got around to mentioning to Beth and Dave and Jug that she was a friend of the SLOOTS.

[dennisintn]

Julia Renfro inserted herself into the picture right out of the gate.  Diverting and misinforming the family at every turn, and  spreading rumors in her spare time.   

Does anyone know when Natalee's family became aware that Julia Renfro was a very good friend of the SLOOTS?

TIA

not sure...but I was told that at the beginning, renho HATED Charles Croes because supposedly he cheated her hubby/boyfriend out of some money. Then a few days into the ordeal all of a sudden renho and CC were best friends and buddy,buddy...so it didn't take long for either of them to choose sides with Aruban tourism over finding Natalee.

Maybe there is more here than meets the eye.  I recall a certain politician's wife of prominence here in our country who had "inadvertently"  obtained FBI files on the opposition and when questioned about them, denied it but she had obtained enough information so that no politician could ever oppose her and her husband.  Does Aruba have such a system whereby someone can obtain dosssiers on its citizens and these can be used by ALE (in collusion) with AHATA anytime something goes against the grain, sotaspeak.  This would explain why not only Charles Croes but Julia Renfro, Dompig, et al, changed their loyalty from Beth to tourism when they saw what files could and would be used against them and then there are others without files or without regard to files, who find themselves hanging alone with their feed on the ground, hands in pocket or eviscerated, beheaded, etc.  It's not a pretty picture when I vile woman can obtain files and use against the country's citizens, but we know if it can happen in the USA, it can happen in a third-world country.

aruba steve cohen bragged on greta or rita's show that ahata/ata had copies of all the a.l.e. and f.b.i. reports and were working hard on solving the crime.  that's like turning all evidence to your local chamber of commerce to solve a murder case in your town.
dennisintn

[Tamikosmom]

What OTHER side of the story is Anita talking about????

Only Natalee is missing from the face of the earth!

There is no other side of anything!

.

Anna ... according to Rudy Croes and Anita van der Sloot ... there is another side to the story ... the side encompassing the Renée Gielen documentary ... the side encompassing the findings of Castillo and Young.

Janet

++++++++++

Amigoe
January 17, 2008

Croes is of the opinion that now that the case against the suspects Joran and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe has brought no results, the Public Prosecution must also consider other scenarios. Castillo and Young’s findings must therefore be seriously investigated, said the minister. “After Beth has been in Oprah’s program, it will be good to tell the other side of the story.” Oprah Winfrey has spent some time on the Holiday-matter in her show yesterday.


http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amigoe.com%2Fartman%2Fpublish%2Fartikel_38773.php
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2527.msg329756#msg329756
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_38773.php

[Tylergal]

Maybe Anita is talking about her prejudiced side with the remarks she injected into the description of the panties when she told Joran to say that Natalee was disparaging blacks and Jews.  Natalee did not do that, Anita the slavemaster said that.

[Tylergal]

So the posse from AHATA has gotten to G Leo or whatever name he is claiming this week.  I bet they have his dossier too.  Do these dossiers that Julia has claim to include the items from her computer that Mos found when he took it, if he is in fact the one who took it.   

[Shell]

let me get this straight

these idiots keep chasing a dead squirel up a rotten tree about Beth and the time
she arrived but they pay no attention to the ever changing timeline of K2, joran and SLOPMAN <--------paulus


ok... i guess i understand now

they are DUMBASSES
 

  I thought this needed repeating

[JusticeforNatalee]

Beth's timeline is being questioned? Well, gee, if Aruba only put one-tenth of the focus on the TIMELINE OF PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT!

And let's remember that Natalee did not disappear after leaving in a car with Beth!

And just why is Aruba so afraid of the Persistence crew finding Natalee's body?
I mean, don't they want this all to be over with so Aruba can move on?

I know Aruba wants to move on. However, Aruba (officials) just want
people to move on and forget about it. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Truth and Justice must prevail.

[Tylergal]

Beth's timeline is being questioned? Well, gee, if Aruba only put one-tenth of the focus on the TIMELINE OF PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT!

And let's remember that Natalee did not disappear after leaving in a car with Beth!

And just why is Aruba so afraid of the Persistence crew finding Natalee's body?
I mean, don't they want this all to be over with so Aruba can move on?

I know Aruba wants to move on. However, Aruba (officials) just want
people to move on and forget about it. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Truth and Justice must prevail.

Remember the Law & Order episode that was on within a few weeks of Natalee disappearing, which was based on her disappearance and they found out toward the end that it was neither the father nor the son who had killed his girlfriend but his mother... I just wonder if they knew something we did not know, that others know, that perhaps Natalee did not die right away at the Sloots and Paulus & Joran had to wait for Anita's arrival to see what to do and had to depend on her for clarification and finality.

[Anna]

No, other side implies some kind of equality, two sides as in of the same coin.

Only one person has vanished.  Only one family has been robbed of their child. 

There may be other versions of events but they are not another side as no one else is missing.  Last I saw, Joran is just fine and showing his rear to the entire world on television dousing wine at his elders, etc.

Now if Joran were to vanish also, then there would be two equal sides.  Anything short of that is just plain victim bashing and totally wrong.

There is no other side.  There has been no equal loss on the "other side" for them to even claim to have a side in this. 

A terrible loss occurred followed by a total failure. None of their gossip about the victim, her mother, her stepfather, none of that matters.  Natalee is missing.  Joran isn't.  Justice has been denied.

Denying a victim justice does not constitute a legitimate position or "side" in anything.

They are just plain wrong.

That's what I think and that's what I know!

 

[Dayhiker]

Maybe there is more here than meets the eye.  I recall a certain politician's wife of prominence here in our country who had "inadvertently"  obtained FBI files on the opposition and when questioned about them, denied it but she had obtained enough information so that no politician could ever oppose her and her husband.  Does Aruba have such a system whereby someone can obtain dosssiers on its citizens and these can be used by ALE (in collusion) with AHATA anytime something goes against the grain, sotaspeak.  This would explain why not only Charles Croes but Julia Renfro, Dompig, et al, changed their loyalty from Beth to tourism when they saw what files could and would be used against them and then there are others without files or without regard to files, who find themselves hanging alone with their feed on the ground, hands in pocket or eviscerated, beheaded, etc.  It's not a pretty picture when I vile woman can obtain files and use against the country's citizens, but we know if it can happen in the USA, it can happen in a third-world country.

Righto Tyler, AHATA was getting the files from ALE and who was serving on the board nominating committee of AHATA at the time? ANTONIO CARLO, Joran's defense lawyer and business partner of Paulus Van der Sloot.

Pretty damn transparent isn't it?

[Anna]

Beth's Timeline???

Why does Beth need a timeline?  Who did she make vanish?  Who was she the last to be seen with?

Beth doesn't have to present any timeline to any of these creeps! 

Now if she was the last seen with someone, say Joran, and he was never seen on the face of the earth again, then maybe there would be something to question.

Just who do these people think they are?  Why would Beth have a timeline which they are attempting to verify when they have thus far totally failed with those last seen with a missing person?

Has Joran or the Kalpoes disappeared and I missed that detail?  Who vanished in Beth's company?

.

[Dayhiker]

So the posse from AHATA has gotten to G Leo or whatever name he is claiming this week.  I bet they have his dossier too.  Do these dossiers that Julia has claim to include the items from her computer that Mos found when he took it, if he is in fact the one who took it.   

From the newspaper article it looks like Alberto G changed his story. Ho hum, does that make him a lying witness? They better bring Karin Jannsen in to arrest him so he can lie without being prosecuted!

Everybody is for sale in Aruba. Everybody that runs the island is a whore. I wonder what Alberto's price tag was?

They all lie, just ask Nadira. Aruba, where lies breed like flies.

[klaasend]

Posted by Lazlo at RU:

Btw, as some have mentioned de Vries indeed is on the island and his activities there are case related.

Just wanted to confirm this.

[Anna]

Posted by Lazlo at RU:

Btw, as some have mentioned de Vries indeed is on the island and his activities there are case related.

Just wanted to confirm this.

 

Is Paulus sweating yet?