Natalee Case Discussion #714 1/20 - 1/25/08

[BUCKSHOT]

It is simply inconceivable to me that the Aruban government chose to protect a certain few, of their island, at the expense of the other residents.

Their decision was simple, regardless of experience in murder cases :

(1) Protect our friend, PVDS, and his family (son) from a wrongdoing, involving an American tourist.(Could have been a Chinese, Australian tourist for all intensive purposes)

OR

(2) Solve the crime to the best of their ability. If their ability was not good enough, based on the size of their island and lack of resources, then seek an agency that was experienced enough to solve the crime.


They chose option #2 and unfortunately for their residents, who more than likely depend on tourism dollars to earn a living, Aruba will suffer.  An analogy of a boa constrictor applies here as slowly, over time and with the help of people who will never be satisfied with not knowing the truth, their economy will suffer in a major way.  Those in power will not suffer, but their residents will until justice is served.  Tourism is probably their largest GDP as a country.  It will not be anymore.  Their tourism probably comes from countries other than the US, so as long as the rest of the world knows about their lack of interest in solving a crime, committed against an unsuspecting tourist, their economy will suffer.  

[2NJSons_Mom]

BTW, I know there was never a phone call placed by Natalee...I am just posting the info for those that might wish to refresh their memories...like me.

While you mention this, while catching up reading yesterday's posts, I noticed that one post brought over from another forum, perhaps RU, stated that Natalee told Beth about a guy that was hanging around the group.  This struck a chord because there was no contact, so to me, this was another bogus statement made by Glenda or whoever posted it....I'm sorry, maybe I should have looked for it. 

[crazybabyborg]

Someone refresh my memory? Wasn't there some indication that it had taken a lot of time to gain cooperation and the necessary information to track possible cell phone calls that might have utilized towers from perhaps Venezuela or elsewhere?

[klaasend]

BUCKSHOT - I think AtlantMetro explained that CCroes is basically a franchisee (sp?) and as such, would not have access to that information, or the authority to release it to anyone. Rather, the franchising company would have that responsibility.

I hope I am not mis-stating the case, but that's the way I remember it.

OK - But it still does not change my position that he is not completely forthcoming with information that he has regarding the case. 

The blame, then, should be equally shared with the franchising company because they have surely not put on the table (for the world to see) records from that evening.

Charles Croes could certainly have facilitated or assisted in that happening.  Those, who sought to obstruct the investigation, surely knew his position as a possible liason and made sure that this information was kept for private viewers only.

I am not disagreeing about Croes; he seems creepy even by Aruba standards. Just saying that he probably would not have been in a position to release call information to anyone.

Is the company Setar? (I think klaas would know.) It's a U.S. company, I think. I have a feeling at least some phone records were requested/subpoenaed.

Setar is an Aruban company.  Charles Croes is Digicel which is a mobile phone service based out of Jamaica:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.aw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digicel

[2NJSons_Mom]

BTW, I know there was never a phone call placed by Natalee...I am just posting the info for those that might wish to refresh their memories...like me.

While you mention this, while catching up reading yesterday's posts, I noticed that one post brought over from another forum, perhaps RU, stated that Natalee told Beth about a guy that was hanging around the group.  This struck a chord because there was no contact, so to me, this was another bogus statement made by Glenda or whoever posted it....I'm sorry, maybe I should have looked for it. 

Here is the post I was referring to:

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   Re: Natalee Case Discussion #714 1/20 -
« Reply #458 on: January 23, 2008, 03:54:55 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: dennisintn on January 23, 2008, 03:45:40 PM
Quote from: Kermit on January 23, 2008, 03:38:32 PM
Julia Renfro goes on Fox News and states Natalee liked a blue-eyed Dutch boy" which turned out to be a lie.

"I really went all out for her to help her find her daughter" - Julia Renfro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZeMusRNNm4



kermit, a free jar of june bugs for you.  didn't julia spend most of yesterday denying that she had said beth told her about the bedb?  sure would be nice if somebody carried this link over to ru for proof.
dennisintn



From RU:


Quote from: Glenda

According to Beth, a blue-eyed Dutch Boy from a good family was hanging around the group of Natalee and her friends at the resort.  Beth never told Julia she was in love with him as rumors have it, just that he had been hanging around them and that Natalee told her about him. He wasn't a boyfriend, just someone the group trusted.

JMO in retrospect - Beth establishing character that Natalee wouldn't leave with a stranger.

Everything else you heard about the BEDB is either rumor or someone elses' account of what Beth said.
 
 
 

[crazybabyborg]

If the Avon was stretched to safely navigate the sea the night they had trouble, does anyone have an opinion what type of boat would have been used to dispose of Natalee's body? Maybe that's not such an issue, since the Avon was an inflatable.

What a harrowing experience for those guys!!!

I do think that the update tells us that cell phone coverage was possible from their location, and that if there was cell phone communication while undertaking disposal of Natalee's remains at sea, then records of calls should exist and could help pinpoint locations of where to search.

[MumInOhio]

Msmaple...thank you...and yes, you were right. It is Curacao. Here's a link, and an article starts on page 13 IIRC.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/48722.pdf

[crazybabyborg]

Koen conveniently "lost" his phone, right? That's always been suspicious, but records of his number and calls placed and recieved should still exist.

OK, I'll get off of it.

[dennisintn]

Hey Y'all...

I just read in the musings thread that Weekend Edition did a story on Joran and the wine tossing... I missed it...



and I have to say that the aruba tourist authority isn't doing a good job... I was looking at winter get aways and they are damn near paying ppl to go to the crummy island... it's the only place that 2 ppl can go to for under $1,200 with airfare... heck, I can't even go to Florida for that!

it may be cheaper on aruba, but look at the kind of people you'd be surrounded by.  you sure can't count on truthful answers from anyone there including "how fresh is the fish".
and the biggie here is, if you "vanish", mr. red has a much better chance of finding you.
dennisintn

[Magnolia]

I remember a while back reading that Rene G. was the girlfriend of somebody
in the Aruban govenment?  Can anybody remember who it was?

[klaasend]

Koen conveniently "lost" his phone, right? That's always been suspicious, but records of his number and calls placed and recieved should still exist.

OK, I'll get off of it.

SANDER is the one who lost his phone.  It was also SANDER who asked Joran if he wanted to go out in his boat on 5/29.

[greeneyedlady]

Koen conveniently "lost" his phone, right? That's always been suspicious, but records of his number and calls placed and recieved should still exist.

OK, I'll get off of it.

Hopefully records exist...btw, I think it was Saunder or Sander (sp?) that lost his cell phone

[crazybabyborg]

Yeah............sorry and thanks! It's been a while, and I confused the name. It was Sander.

[Anna]

Within 10 minutes last night of mentioning Eric Williams, DH had 5 e-mails from people who were familiar with this case from early on when he was posting at RWV, one of whom is a male from Aruba, and basically all were implying be careful of Eric Williams as there is more to him than meets the eye.

In fact, MSNBC sent a former FBI agent to Aruba who appeared on TV several times and has been on Dana's program.  Want to guess who that guy is?  and if in fact, Eric Williams was one of the "good guys," then they would have in all probability met and worked in concert to bring resolution but Eric Williams, to my knowledge, never met with him.

Add to that he bought his house from Renfro according to her.  Jug said they never saw or heard from him again.  Jean Akers, Vice Consulate or whatever her title was, clearly seen attending the Welcome Home party for Joran.

Some of these people who are hired to look after the interest of U.S. citizens really do not seem to have their heart in that endeavor.

I emailed and sent via snail mail to the Consulate in Curacao long ago along with MsMarple.  I never even received the courtesy of a reply.  At least they responded to MsMarple who sent them a tremendous amount of material if I recall.  MsM can correct me if I am wrong about that but I believe she sent them many copies of documentation that we have and also on the crime rate in Aruba being much higher than tourist were being lead to believe.  The latter is what I sent to them.  No response at all to me.

I sent it because these people should be looking out for American tourists and would be the first line of defense for them being mislead as to the actual safety of One Happy which at the time was promoting itself to the tourist industry as having had "one murder in the last twenty years" when in fact their murder rate is as high as that of the U.S. based on per capita body count.

Some people in the service of this country are very lax in the performance of their duties is my opinion.

Mos said one of the reasons the investigation never went forward was the involvement of the DEA agent the first night.  Also recall they had to WAIT for him.  Why?  He had already met with Beth but could not immediately accompany them to the Sloot's compound.  This sure gave time for a tip off, etc.  His role in this remains suspect to me.

Just my opinion, . . . .

But then so many people did not react as one would expect them to in this situation.  Shocking to say the least but a real eye opener.

.

[Tamikosmom]

so where is the statement and how does renho know about it?
 

resigned wrote:
I'm still not clear...

Did DEA Williams or any other DEA agent give a statement to ALE for the Holloway Case regarding the events that took place late night/early morning May 30/31 2005?
 Glenda Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:46 pm
Yes he did. 

Wonder if we can get Glenda to tell us more, you think?

I may not be remembering correctly.....but I thought we found that DEA
agent, Eric Williams was Renho's neighbor.

That's what I was thinking, maybe bought a property from her or something.

to me it just says the "fix" was in early on. If the "dea agent" had close ties to renho or others, he certainly wasn't there to assist the family, more likely to derail them. And if he was outed and retired, why not help the Family by giving his statement? Why dissappear? And now supposedly renho knows of a statement he gave that the family "wishes he hadn't"? Here we go...another one currently on the ahta payroll...imho

ldstlou

If Eric Williams is in fact a residence on the Island and ... he identified himself as a tourist ...

If Eric Williams is in fact a retired DEA for the FBI and ... failed to identify himself as "retired" ...

Jug and Beth did not pull out of thin air their mutual contentions that a statement had not been given by Eric Williams ... had not been taken by the ALE.

Janet

++++++++++

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE
Release Date: October, 2007

Aruban authorities neer took statements from the Alabama men, the eyewitnesses who were present at the van der Sloots' that first morning.  And no statement was taken from that DEA agent.  Aruba simply wouldn't do it.


Beth Twitty
'The Abrams Report'
October 12, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... the DEA witness, Eric Williams, was not given—was not—did not give a statement regarding the incident that occurred May 31 where Joran is again, admitting these sexual assaults committed against Natalee.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: We‘ve had a D.E.A. whose statement was never taken.


Jug Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
July 19, 2005

TWITTY: … And I find out two days ago that the Aruban authorities never took this man's (DEA) statement. Beth and I are going, It's unbelievable.

[Starr]

I don't get this.
No surprise that Aruban LE didn't do their job and interview Eric Williams.
They didn't do a lot of things they  should have.

But what became of Eric Williams?, Why didn't he stand up with Beth?
He was there. Why wait to be asked?

[Tamikosmom]

BUCKSHOT - I think AtlantMetro explained that CCroes is basically a franchisee (sp?) and as such, would not have access to that information, or the authority to release it to anyone. Rather, the franchising company would have that responsibility.

I hope I am not mis-stating the case, but that's the way I remember it.

OK - But it still does not change my position that he is not completely forthcoming with information that he has regarding the case. 

The blame, then, should be equally shared with the franchising company because they have surely not put on the table (for the world to see) records from that evening.

Charles Croes could certainly have facilitated or assisted in that happening.  Those, who sought to obstruct the investigation, surely knew his position as a possible liason and made sure that this information was kept for private viewers only.

I am not disagreeing about Croes; he seems creepy even by Aruba standards. Just saying that he probably would not have been in a position to release call information to anyone.

Is the company Setar? (I think klaas would know.) It's a U.S. company, I think. I have a feeling at least some phone records were requested/subpoenaed.

At the following link ... there is lots of great info on Setar and ... Setar's part in the alleged coverup in the the Natalee Holloway case.

Janet

+++++++++

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html
Controlling The Message ~ Corruption in Paradise

[Anna]

Janet,

I don't recall seeing that article by the Freebirds before!  Thanks for posting it.

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html
Controlling The Message ~ Corruption in Paradise

 


And I do recall I believe AtlantaMetroGuy posting about how records would eventually be overwritten much the way security tapes are but after a longer period of time.  Bet that period is not two years so unless information was obtained pretty quickly, it is likely lost forever.

I also don't think ALE told the family the truth about many things.  I do believe they just flatly and blatantly lied to this family on many very important issues in regard to the disappearance of Natalee.

Lying would appear to be an Aruban investigative technique!  It also allows their partners in all this, the tourism employees and AHATA shills, much fodder for their Rumor Mill which was in full swing before Beth ever arrived.

IMO

.

[Anna]

I need to just look through all the articles at Freebirds.  They always seem a compilation of what all of us have gleaned.  May have missed other important ones.  Very good site for resource on this investigation and its failure.

I urge everyone to check out this site often and also their archives for some of the best coverage of this tragedy.

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

.

[klaasend]

I need to just look through all the articles at Freebirds.  They always seem a compilation of what all of us have gleaned.  May have missed other important ones.  Very good site for resource on this investigation and its failure.

I urge everyone to check out this site often and also their archives for some of the best coverage of this tragedy.

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

.

Anna - FYI, all of the Freebirds posts are posted X3 here at SM.  I post them in this thread, in this forum in a Corruption and Collusion thread and in the Important Case Document area in the Corruption and Collusion thread.