Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 - 1/29/08

[Bearlyhere]

Watching that video from the Persistence.  Did the Aruba police (at the end of the video) fly by the boat, maybe a little too close, and splash them with the waves?  Sorry, but that video bothers me a little bit.  I thought they were far enough off shore that it was international water and a "visit" from Aruba's finest would not be necessary. I did not get a good feeling watching that video.  I know what kyle said about their help, but it just leaves me a little uneasy.

It is the Aruban underwater search team from ALE that has been helpful.
The video is the Aruban Coast Guard....different bunch I think.
The music is what made me suspicious.

At the beginning of the video where they are helping the guy move from one vessel to the other, the men helping him off seemed to genuinely care that the one stepping off was safe.  I don't think you help a person as much as they did if you are upset with them.  I think Kyle is being truthful when he says everything is going well with them.  I would rather not borrow trouble as there is enough to go around already.

[CapsLockWizard]

No wonder no body answer my posts in the shango forum... all Monkeys are over here....

lol

[Magnolia]

Watching that video from the Persistence.  Did the Aruba police (at the end of the video) fly by the boat, maybe a little too close, and splash them with the waves?  Sorry, but that video bothers me a little bit.  I thought they were far enough off shore that it was international water and a "visit" from Aruba's finest would not be necessary. I did not get a good feeling watching that video.  I know what kyle said about their help, but it just leaves me a little uneasy.

It is the Aruban underwater search team from ALE that has been helpful.
The video is the Aruban Coast Guard....different bunch I think.
The music is what made me suspicious.

At the beginning of the video where they are helping the guy move from one vessel to the other, the men helping him off seemed to genuinely care that the one stepping off was safe.  I don't think you help a person as much as they did if you are upset with them.  I think Kyle is being truthful when he says everything is going well with them.  I would rather not borrow trouble as there is enough to go around already.

You are so right, Bearly.

[Bearlyhere]

Janet - yes..no doubt Renfro has been well compensated for her efforts

Do Julia's comments a few months ago and those she is making now seem unsettling to anyone other than me?  Sort of reminds me of the girl who worked in a whorehouse and left in a hissy fit when she found out the other girls were getting paid. Has she found out if she takes a different tack she gets paid?

I thought she did work in a whorehouse 

Just call her Madam.   

[Silverfox]

Watching that video from the Persistence.  Did the Aruba police (at the end of the video) fly by the boat, maybe a little too close, and splash them with the waves?  Sorry, but that video bothers me a little bit.  I thought they were far enough off shore that it was international water and a "visit" from Aruba's finest would not be necessary. I did not get a good feeling watching that video.  I know what kyle said about their help, but it just leaves me a little uneasy.

Kyle has said many times that ALE has been working WITH them and there has been good communication. I don't think Kyle has any reason to lie about that.  I do understand your uneasiness though 

I believe they have identified them as the Aruban Coast Guard.  If they are like the US Coast Guard then they are a different agency altogether.

[Blue Moon]

Watching that video from the Persistence.  Did the Aruba police (at the end of the video) fly by the boat, maybe a little too close, and splash them with the waves?  Sorry, but that video bothers me a little bit.  I thought they were far enough off shore that it was international water and a "visit" from Aruba's finest would not be necessary. I did not get a good feeling watching that video.  I know what kyle said about their help, but it just leaves me a little uneasy.

It is the Aruban underwater search team from ALE that has been helpful.
The video is the Aruban Coast Guard....different bunch I think.
The music is what made me suspicious.

At the beginning of the video where they are helping the guy move from one vessel to the other, the men helping him off seemed to genuinely care that the one stepping off was safe.  I don't think you help a person as much as they did if you are upset with them.  I think Kyle is being truthful when he says everything is going well with them.  I would rather not borrow trouble as there is enough to go around already.

I only watched the video without the music.  I did not think they were upset with them from what I could see.  I only had an uneasy feeling from "watching" only.  Guess I need to turn on the music next time.

[Kermit]

YOU'RE OWN FATHER!

YOUR OWN SON

******* ROFLMAO!

[Silverfox]

Watching that video from the Persistence.  Did the Aruba police (at the end of the video) fly by the boat, maybe a little too close, and splash them with the waves?  Sorry, but that video bothers me a little bit.  I thought they were far enough off shore that it was international water and a "visit" from Aruba's finest would not be necessary. I did not get a good feeling watching that video.  I know what kyle said about their help, but it just leaves me a little uneasy.

It is the Aruban underwater search team from ALE that has been helpful.
The video is the Aruban Coast Guard....different bunch I think.
The music is what made me suspicious.

At the beginning of the video where they are helping the guy move from one vessel to the other, the men helping him off seemed to genuinely care that the one stepping off was safe.  I don't think you help a person as much as they did if you are upset with them.  I think Kyle is being truthful when he says everything is going well with them.  I would rather not borrow trouble as there is enough to go around already.

I only watched the video without the music.  I did not think they were upset with them from what I could see.  I only had an uneasy feeling from "watching" only.  Guess I need to turn on the music next time.

MOO but I think this might be a "coded" message.  Notice the special thanks in the video.  The choice of music is telling -- It is not often the Coast Guard of any country will actually board you -- if you are viewed as friendly and with purpose.  I thin the video may have the sequences switched as it absolutely makes no sense to come as such speed "after" a friendly boarding -- except maybe to "show off"?  Even then it wold be very unprofessional.  the second sequence may have actually been the first in the timeline as a warning they were going to board... then the boarding and helping the CG official back on the boat following.

Being an old Navy man myself I can tell you that a fast approaching surface craft like that operated as such high speed  would be viewed as "provacative"... On the other hand, if it was done for show then it is very unprofessional, at best.

[private eye]

Loranzo bribes Rudy Croes????????

If the US government would do what it can and should, this crap would come tumbling down today, not tomorrow. They know every drug dealer in Aruba and South America, who pays whom, when and where the drug traffic comes and goes. If they interupt that business, "Justice For Natalee" will be today, not tomorrow.

Bush, this hasn't exactly been a Texas response to a damsel in distress by you. I thought Texans rode tall in the saddle and carried a big stick, especially to rescue a daughter of their neighbor. You haven't even used the bully pulpit to voice your demands. It can be done, it should be done, and you really ought to consider doing it.

Shut down the drug traffic as you absolutely can, only temporarily as we obviously get some secret benefit from the traffic, until they give us the answers. Think about it, put yourself in Beth's shoes, and be the good man your daughters know you to be, the good Texan your neighbors know you to be, the good President we are all learning you to be. Beth needs one more hero to step forward, and the shoes belong to you.

private eye, you need to send this one to the white house, posthaste.
dennisintn

I think he knows of the need, and not thru this letter, but he just won't get publicly, individually involved. The President has a very strong tool, the presidential pulpit, and he needs to use it. Until the Arubans hear it from him, in plain words, unfortunately, they will thumb their nose at us, because a woman as intelligent, articulate, cultured, attractive, and small in physical stature as Ms Rice carries no weight in Aruba. Obviously women are not a factor there. I think she has it in her to act in a way that would get their attention, but that is a behavior she is not comfortable demonstrating, and it is a shame.

I think she know exactly how to talk to these thugs in a manner that they understand, if she would let her hair down and her emotions flow. She didn't get where she is today without a lot of backbone, hardwork, and character. And damn it, we have a President from Texas, and I know his momma taught him how to rescue damsels in distress, so she shouldn't have to do a man's job. He just needs to do it, or by God at least let his momma do it for him:)))))))))))))

[private eye]

YOU'RE OWN FATHER!

YOUR OWN SON

******* ROFLMAO!

If those two were to fight, my money is on Peter, regardless of the odds!!!!!!!!!!!

[klaasend]

Watching that video from the Persistence.  Did the Aruba police (at the end of the video) fly by the boat, maybe a little too close, and splash them with the waves?  Sorry, but that video bothers me a little bit.  I thought they were far enough off shore that it was international water and a "visit" from Aruba's finest would not be necessary. I did not get a good feeling watching that video.  I know what kyle said about their help, but it just leaves me a little uneasy.

Kyle has said many times that ALE has been working WITH them and there has been good communication. I don't think Kyle has any reason to lie about that.  I do understand your uneasiness though 

I believe they have identified them as the Aruban Coast Guard.  If they are like the US Coast Guard then they are a different agency altogether.

Yes

RV Persistence - Courtesy visit from the Aruba Coast Guard 27-Jan 0940 hrs

[private eye]

Watching that video from the Persistence.  Did the Aruba police (at the end of the video) fly by the boat, maybe a little too close, and splash them with the waves?  Sorry, but that video bothers me a little bit.  I thought they were far enough off shore that it was international water and a "visit" from Aruba's finest would not be necessary. I did not get a good feeling watching that video.  I know what kyle said about their help, but it just leaves me a little uneasy.

It is the Aruban underwater search team from ALE that has been helpful.
The video is the Aruban Coast Guard....different bunch I think.
The music is what made me suspicious.

At the beginning of the video where they are helping the guy move from one vessel to the other, the men helping him off seemed to genuinely care that the one stepping off was safe.  I don't think you help a person as much as they did if you are upset with them.  I think Kyle is being truthful when he says everything is going well with them.  I would rather not borrow trouble as there is enough to go around already.

I only watched the video without the music.  I did not think they were upset with them from what I could see.  I only had an uneasy feeling from "watching" only.  Guess I need to turn on the music next time.

MOO but I think this might be a "coded" message.  Notice the special thanks in the video.  The choice of music is telling -- It is not often the Coast Guard of any country will actually board you -- if you are viewed as friendly and with purpose.  I thin the video may have the sequences switched as it absolutely makes no sense to come as such speed "after" a friendly boarding -- except maybe to "show off"?  Even then it wold be very unprofessional.  the second sequence may have actually been the first in the timeline as a warning they were going to board... then the boarding and helping the CG official back on the boat following.

Being an old Navy man myself I can tell you that a fast approaching surface craft like that operated as such high speed  would be viewed as "provacative"... On the other hand, if it was done for show then it is very unprofessional, at best.

The men on the Persistence are not afraid of the boys on the Aruban boats. We have a signifcant Navy presence in the area, and there is excellent cell phone coverage. And most of all, we have the power of the press onboard.

[dennisintn]

Janet - yes..no doubt Renfro has been well compensated for her efforts

Do Julia's comments a few months ago and those she is making now seem unsettling to anyone other than me?  Sort of reminds me of the girl who worked in a whorehouse and left in a hissy fit when she found out the other girls were getting paid. Has she found out if she takes a different tack she gets paid?
[/quote
roflmao, thank you, thank you, thank you, i could end my day with a big smile with that one.  i love it.
dennisintn                         

[private eye]

I think the real Arubans want this solved as much as we do, and I should have indicated that my post was mostly in good natured jest:)

[Bearlyhere]

Watching that video from the Persistence.  Did the Aruba police (at the end of the video) fly by the boat, maybe a little too close, and splash them with the waves?  Sorry, but that video bothers me a little bit.  I thought they were far enough off shore that it was international water and a "visit" from Aruba's finest would not be necessary. I did not get a good feeling watching that video.  I know what kyle said about their help, but it just leaves me a little uneasy.

It is the Aruban underwater search team from ALE that has been helpful.
The video is the Aruban Coast Guard....different bunch I think.
The music is what made me suspicious.

At the beginning of the video where they are helping the guy move from one vessel to the other, the men helping him off seemed to genuinely care that the one stepping off was safe.  I don't think you help a person as much as they did if you are upset with them.  I think Kyle is being truthful when he says everything is going well with them.  I would rather not borrow trouble as there is enough to go around already.

I only watched the video without the music.  I did not think they were upset with them from what I could see.  I only had an uneasy feeling from "watching" only.  Guess I need to turn on the music next time.

MOO but I think this might be a "coded" message.  Notice the special thanks in the video.  The choice of music is telling -- It is not often the Coast Guard of any country will actually board you -- if you are viewed as friendly and with purpose.  I thin the video may have the sequences switched as it absolutely makes no sense to come as such speed "after" a friendly boarding -- except maybe to "show off"?  Even then it wold be very unprofessional.  the second sequence may have actually been the first in the timeline as a warning they were going to board... then the boarding and helping the CG official back on the boat following.

Being an old Navy man myself I can tell you that a fast approaching surface craft like that operated as such high speed  would be viewed as "provacative"... On the other hand, if it was done for show then it is very unprofessional, at best.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. 

My feeling is this...if while the Persistence is in Aruba and Kyle wants us to believe, or even pretend to believe, that they are getting along "swimmingly", for whatever reason he has, that is what I will do in order to support Kyle and the people with him that have worked so hard to get and maintain this relationship.

[Blue Moon]

The men on the Persistence are not afraid of the boys on the Aruban boats. We have a significant Navy presence in the area, and there is excellent cell phone coverage. And most of all, we have the power of the press on board.


And camera's are a good thing!

[Silverfox]

Watching that video from the Persistence.  Did the Aruba police (at the end of the video) fly by the boat, maybe a little too close, and splash them with the waves?  Sorry, but that video bothers me a little bit.  I thought they were far enough off shore that it was international water and a "visit" from Aruba's finest would not be necessary. I did not get a good feeling watching that video.  I know what kyle said about their help, but it just leaves me a little uneasy.

It is the Aruban underwater search team from ALE that has been helpful.
The video is the Aruban Coast Guard....different bunch I think.
The music is what made me suspicious.

At the beginning of the video where they are helping the guy move from one vessel to the other, the men helping him off seemed to genuinely care that the one stepping off was safe.  I don't think you help a person as much as they did if you are upset with them.  I think Kyle is being truthful when he says everything is going well with them.  I would rather not borrow trouble as there is enough to go around already.

I only watched the video without the music.  I did not think they were upset with them from what I could see.  I only had an uneasy feeling from "watching" only.  Guess I need to turn on the music next time.

MOO but I think this might be a "coded" message.  Notice the special thanks in the video.  The choice of music is telling -- It is not often the Coast Guard of any country will actually board you -- if you are viewed as friendly and with purpose.  I thin the video may have the sequences switched as it absolutely makes no sense to come as such speed "after" a friendly boarding -- except maybe to "show off"?  Even then it wold be very unprofessional.  the second sequence may have actually been the first in the timeline as a warning they were going to board... then the boarding and helping the CG official back on the boat following.

Being an old Navy man myself I can tell you that a fast approaching surface craft like that operated as such high speed  would be viewed as "provacative"... On the other hand, if it was done for show then it is very unprofessional, at best.

The men on the Persistence are not afraid of the boys on the Aruban boats. We have a signifcant Navy presence in the area, and there is excellent cell phone coverage. And most of all, we have the power of the press onboard.

I agree with you... But this is a most interesting post by Kyle.  Not his usual flair for almost poetic words and details.  Rather short and succinct.  The Persistence left port at 07:40 and was boarded at 09:40 -- two hours later. 

Perhaps this is a zone that is getting sensitive?  I am sure the press corps is having a hey day....If nothing else th world can now see how fast the little boats are that chase down the big bad drug and human running baddies. 

[Silverfox]

Most certainly it is a good thing that there is such a cooperative spirit there between all the agencies... right?

[Observer]

******* ROFLMAO!

I had problems screen capturing that He was supposed to be looking at Joran..He was first staring at PVDS when he was talking then he stared down Joran then back at PVDS..Wish I would have done that properly

[Tamikosmom]

Loranzo bribes Rudy Croes????????

If the US government would do what it can and should, this crap would come tumbling down today, not tomorrow. They know every drug dealer in Aruba and South America, who pays whom, when and where the drug traffic comes and goes. If they interupt that business, "Justice For Natalee" will be today, not tomorrow.

Bush, this hasn't exactly been a Texas response to a damsel in distress by you. I thought Texans rode tall in the saddle and carried a big stick, especially to rescue a daughter of their neighbor. You haven't even used the bully pulpit to voice your demands. It can be done, it should be done, and you really ought to consider doing it.

Shut down the drug traffic as you absolutely can, only temporarily as we obviously get some secret benefit from the traffic, until they give us the answers. Think about it, put yourself in Beth's shoes, and be the good man your daughters know you to be, the good Texan your neighbors know you to be, the good President we are all learning you to be. Beth needs one more hero to step forward, and the shoes belong to you.

PI ... now that it is that the door has been shut ... Hans Mos has dismissed the Natalee Holloway case ... Hans Mos had released Joran, Deepak and Satish from suspect status ... it is obvious that justice is not going to come out of Aruba for an American citizen ... maybe the focus whould be on the windows of opportunity which are are still open ... one being ... THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION.

In November, 2005 ... Senator Shelby was a voice that Aruba had to reckon with.  Why has this voice been silent for so long?

Why is the American administer allowing the tiny island of Aruba to deny a just investigation to Natalee Holloway ... a just investigation that an American citizen is entitled to under both Dutch and American law?

Aruba should be fearing the wrath of one of the greatest democracies on the face of the earth.  Instead ... she appears to be making an obscene gesture with a middle finger and ... American is doing absolutely nothing. 

Janet

++++++++++++


Aruba travel boycott
Senator supports initiative to punish country for 'botched' Holloway case

MSNBC
updated 7:41 p.m. PT, Tues., Nov. 8, 2005

In an exclusive interview, Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) tells MSNBC-TV's Rita Cosby that he supports a travel boycott of Aruba "to let the people of Aruba know that their law enforcement and their investigative authorities...have botched this whole operation" to find missing teen Natalee Holloway.

In an interview to air tonight on MSNBC's "Rita Cosby: Live and Direct," Shelby also says this move sends a strong message with economical consequences.

The following is the complete transcript of the interview. "Rita Cosby: Live and Direct" airs weeknights at 9 p.m. ET.

RITA COSBY, MSNBC ANCHOR: Senator Shelby, how do you feel about the boycott?

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: I think it's a thing that we should have been pushing months ago. I'm glad that Governor Riley's come out today. I'm certainly going to support a boycott. But more than that, John Walsh the other night, from television, he said this one of the things that we could do that would be positive, to let the people of Aruba know that their law enforcement and their investigative authorities and so forth have botched this whole operation.

COSBY: You know, the governor of Alabama talked about calling other governors, basically all 49 other states, saying, "Please join on board." Are you planning on doing the same thing with other senators?

SHELBY: Well, I would join him, and I would join and call for a boycott because, you know, you try to get the attention of the Aruban government. I started at the beginning. I was dealing with the FBI director, I was dealing with the ambassador, the Dutch ambassador. I was dealing with our secretary of state, everything. And there was a lot of double talk here.

But, you know, when I see somebody like Beth Twitty, the mother of Natalee Holloway do what she's done, persevere as she's done on behalf of her daughter, I think the least we could do as public officials is support her, to speak out — although she is from my state of Alabama and Natalee Holloway is of course too, this wouldn't matter.

I think we, as Americans, ought to send a message to the people of Aruba that we're not going to just sit by, ignore what's gone on here. This has been reprehensible conduct, I believe, on the part of the government. It looks like it's cover-up, lack of cooperation. I think it's a sad case of investigation.

COSBY: Are you prepared now to call for a boycott yourself, and urge others to do so?

SHELBY: Absolutely. I would join in what Governor Riley, what Beth Twitty, and what John Walsh, who's very respected in this area all over the world, have called for. I think it's the thing to do. Will it work? I don't know, but I would hope so. This is the winter season coming. That's when, you know, thousands and thousands of people from the United States support the Aruban economy.

COSBY: That's the question, you know when you look at the travel agencies and you look at the specifics, 75 percent of the people who go there, the tourists, are American. How is this going to work?

SHELBY: Well, we don't know how it will work. I think a lot of it will depend on whether or not people heed the boycott, in other words, stay away. A lot of people will say, "Oh goodness, it's a beautiful place. We ought to go anyway." But I think this is the strongest message we could send right now, a message that would hurt them economically, would get there attention. What we're looking for here is justice, honesty in the government, and I don't believe it's there.

COSBY: What kind of steps do you think you can do as a senator, as a powerful and respected senator there on the Hill, to make a difference here? I mean, are you planning on going to the State Department? Are you thinking about petitioning traveling agencies, calling the airlines? Is there something else that you can do to have some force behind the boycott?

SHELBY: I can speak out on the floor of the U.S. Senate.  That gets the attention of a lot of people.

Secondly, I can certainly speak out on behalf of the family doing what they've tried to do and how hard they've worked to get it done before is a fair and impartial investigation over the loss of their daughter.

COSBY: Could you call the State Department? Could you do some of those other things, is that within your means?

SHELBY: Oh, sure. I will work with my office, try to coordinate it with others and the family and Governor Riley. We're just several voices out here, and it will take a lot more than us to make a boycott effective.

COSBY: What are some of the other things that you think that you can do? I suggested some of the things, but are you planning on calling the State Department, airlines, travel agencies? Are you planning on doing those things?

SHELBY: I will do those things, but I'm also aware of the fact that a lot of people wouldn't worry, if they were in the travel business. They just want to sell a deal. And I think now, people ought to think. They have a lot more options in the Caribbean than just Aruba, and this would be a time to exercise them.

COSBY: You know, I talked to the deputy chief of police, Dompig, about this case, and he said some interesting things. I want to share a little comment. This is what he had to say about the three boys in the case, Senator.

"I still believe that these boys have been lying, they're still lying, and everybody knows that by now. So there's no doubt in my mind that they know something, they're guilty of something," said Aruban Police Chief Gerold Dompig.

COSBY: You know, Senator, he even went as far as saying, "I think they're guilty as hell, but I just have to prove it." We have that coming from the deputy chief of police, he's the acting police chief right now. What surprises you most about this case, and do you think that this boycott is going to push it forward, make a difference in the investigation?

SHELBY: We hope the boycott will push it forward because we've tried it everything, and this would be another weapon in the arsenal, that is economic hurt.

But I believe there are just so many unanswered questions regarding these three young men from the beginning.  They were with her, they've obviously told different stories, a lot of those stories you wouldn't believe, a lot of them have not panned out. So there's a lot of information for proper investigators to go on, but it looks like the government down there has turned the other way.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9973144/


Senator Wants FBI to Do More in Aruba
Friday, July 01, 2005
FOX NEWS

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Fearing the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway (search) has gone cold, a U.S. senator is calling for the Aruban government to allow the FBI to get more involved in the case.

Sen. Richard Shelby (search) wants the FBI to have full access to evidence in the case and he wrote a letter to FBI Director Robert Mueller to gain support for his idea. Shelby, a Republican, represents Alabama, Holloway’s home state, in the Senate.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161294,00.html