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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 - 1/29/08  (Read 305162 times)
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private eye
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« Reply #160 on: January 26, 2008, 04:26:40 PM »

Klaas, this creation of yours is AWESOME!

 

Capslockwizard,  It's clear to me you have done a lot of work in a short time to decode the Shango and Simian Posts. 

Some of your theory backs up some of what I feel is true:
 
Natalee was targeted,
she was kidnapped by J2K,
Paulus was involved in the beginning, not just after the fact,
Julia Renfro is in it up to her eyeballs, 
Extreme threats have been issued to those who would talk in the form of beheadings, mutiliation deaths, one-hand-in-pocket hanging suicides indicating involvement of MOB, drug lords
Casinos = MOB
the collusion permeates the highest officials in the government and judiciary

I have often thought of why Paulus would be involved in targeting Natalee.  One scenario I feel is possible, is that he owed a debt to someone, whether a gambling debt, or some other type of debt involving his dirty business dealings with government contracts. 

IMO, the fact that Joe Tacopina is representing the Van der Sloots confirms Paulus' dirty business/MOB connection.

Michael Posner, Excelsior casino owner, is a convicted felon who did time in federal prison for Racketeering (MOB)

    * aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein.

    * his family still resides in Riverwoods.

    * his criminal profile lists involvement in illegal gambling, strip clubs and vending machines.

    * criminal history dates to 1960 includes numerous arrests and successful tax and racketeering prosecutions. 


 

Except for the confession by Joran that something bad happened and she was buried by the fishermans hut and no father would allow his son to be persecuted for the rest of his life as Joran will be for a crime the father committed himself, or no mother. And the recording of the boys when they thought they were alone. The chances are this is simple and the story has been told by the boys own words and actions.
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Helen Back
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« Reply #161 on: January 26, 2008, 04:27:00 PM »

From Vanity Fair
In those tumultuous first days, Beth's most valuable allies were Julia Renfro, the 37-year-old American-born editor of an English-language daily, Aruba Today, and one of her reporters, Angela Munzenhofer, a tough-talking American whose family runs one of the island's popular restaurants. When Beth walked into the paper's office the day after she arrived, Renfro, a statuesque blonde, stopped the presses to run a front-page photograph of Natalee. Renfro and Munzenhofer both have children, and they identified with Beth's desperation; the three women became inseparable. The first flyers posted around the island carried two numbers people could call with tips: Renfro's and Munzenhofer's cell phones. "

Thanks, Magnolia!  I knew this was documented somewhere!

On what planet does law enforcement allow posters with personal numbers instead of a police tip line?



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CapsLockWizard
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« Reply #162 on: January 26, 2008, 04:32:36 PM »



Klaasend:

Got an email today from DH, why took so long?

Other thing, for anyone that is with the riddle:

music = news

Music = News reporter

Only those who Rave music go into the Maze

There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat



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Magnolia
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« Reply #163 on: January 26, 2008, 04:32:53 PM »

Klaas, this creation of yours is AWESOME!

 

Capslockwizard,  It's clear to me you have done a lot of work in a short time to decode the Shango and Simian Posts. 

Some of your theory backs up some of what I feel is true:
 
Natalee was targeted,
she was kidnapped by J2K,
Paulus was involved in the beginning, not just after the fact,
Julia Renfro is in it up to her eyeballs, 
Extreme threats have been issued to those who would talk in the form of beheadings, mutiliation deaths, one-hand-in-pocket hanging suicides indicating involvement of MOB, drug lords
Casinos = MOB
the collusion permeates the highest officials in the government and judiciary

I have often thought of why Paulus would be involved in targeting Natalee.  One scenario I feel is possible, is that he owed a debt to someone, whether a gambling debt, or some other type of debt involving his dirty business dealings with government contracts. 

IMO, the fact that Joe Tacopina is representing the Van der Sloots confirms Paulus' dirty business/MOB connection.

Michael Posner, Excelsior casino owner, is a convicted felon who did time in federal prison for Racketeering (MOB)

    * aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein.

    * his family still resides in Riverwoods.

    * his criminal profile lists involvement in illegal gambling, strip clubs and vending machines.

    * criminal history dates to 1960 includes numerous arrests and successful tax and racketeering prosecutions. 


 

Except for the confession by Joran that something bad happened and she was buried by the fishermans hut and no father would allow his son to be persecuted for the rest of his life as Joran will be for a crime the father committed himself, or no mother. And the recording of the boys when they thought they were alone. The chances are this is simple and the story has been told by the boys own words and actions.

I agree PI.  This was a planned rape gone bad.  Then they called the father to
hide the body.  The total confusion comes in the cover up.
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The will of heaven be done in this and all things.
Helen Back
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« Reply #164 on: January 26, 2008, 04:34:33 PM »

Klaas, this creation of yours is AWESOME!

 

Capslockwizard,  It's clear to me you have done a lot of work in a short time to decode the Shango and Simian Posts. 

Some of your theory backs up some of what I feel is true:
 
Natalee was targeted,
she was kidnapped by J2K,
Paulus was involved in the beginning, not just after the fact,
Julia Renfro is in it up to her eyeballs, 
Extreme threats have been issued to those who would talk in the form of beheadings, mutiliation deaths, one-hand-in-pocket hanging suicides indicating involvement of MOB, drug lords
Casinos = MOB
the collusion permeates the highest officials in the government and judiciary

I have often thought of why Paulus would be involved in targeting Natalee.  One scenario I feel is possible, is that he owed a debt to someone, whether a gambling debt, or some other type of debt involving his dirty business dealings with government contracts. 

IMO, the fact that Joe Tacopina is representing the Van der Sloots confirms Paulus' dirty business/MOB connection.

Michael Posner, Excelsior casino owner, is a convicted felon who did time in federal prison for Racketeering (MOB)

    * aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein.

    * his family still resides in Riverwoods.

    * his criminal profile lists involvement in illegal gambling, strip clubs and vending machines.

    * criminal history dates to 1960 includes numerous arrests and successful tax and racketeering prosecutions. 


 

Except for the confession by Joran that something bad happened and she was buried by the fishermans hut and no father would allow his son to be persecuted for the rest of his life as Joran will be for a crime the father committed himself, or no mother. And the recording of the boys when they thought they were alone. The chances are this is simple and the story has been told by the boys own words and actions.

Hey Private Eye,

I'm just trying to give capslock some info on the people he has been asking about.

I don't exclude Joran's culpability by suggesting his father was involved early on. 

After seeing the casino video with Paulus at the table, and his lies about his timeline, do you not believe that Paulus had some type of involvement early in the evening, prior to cover up mode?

I don't think that the involvement of Paulus and J2K is mutually exclusive.


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Helen Back
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« Reply #165 on: January 26, 2008, 04:39:07 PM »

Klaas, this creation of yours is AWESOME!

 

Capslockwizard,  It's clear to me you have done a lot of work in a short time to decode the Shango and Simian Posts. 

Some of your theory backs up some of what I feel is true:
 
Natalee was targeted,
she was kidnapped by J2K,
Paulus was involved in the beginning, not just after the fact,
Julia Renfro is in it up to her eyeballs, 
Extreme threats have been issued to those who would talk in the form of beheadings, mutiliation deaths, one-hand-in-pocket hanging suicides indicating involvement of MOB, drug lords
Casinos = MOB
the collusion permeates the highest officials in the government and judiciary

I have often thought of why Paulus would be involved in targeting Natalee.  One scenario I feel is possible, is that he owed a debt to someone, whether a gambling debt, or some other type of debt involving his dirty business dealings with government contracts. 

IMO, the fact that Joe Tacopina is representing the Van der Sloots confirms Paulus' dirty business/MOB connection.

Michael Posner, Excelsior casino owner, is a convicted felon who did time in federal prison for Racketeering (MOB)

    * aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein.

    * his family still resides in Riverwoods.

    * his criminal profile lists involvement in illegal gambling, strip clubs and vending machines.

    * criminal history dates to 1960 includes numerous arrests and successful tax and racketeering prosecutions. 


 

Except for the confession by Joran that something bad happened and she was buried by the fishermans hut and no father would allow his son to be persecuted for the rest of his life as Joran will be for a crime the father committed himself, or no mother. And the recording of the boys when they thought they were alone. The chances are this is simple and the story has been told by the boys own words and actions.

I agree PI.  This was a planned rape gone bad.  Then they called the father to
hide the body.  The total confusion comes in the cover up.

So you think the reason Paulus lies and distances himself from having seen Natalee early in the evening, is solely because of his involvement in disposal?

Perhaps I have put too much importance on Paulus appearance in the casino early that night.  I just have had the feeling he played a bigger part.

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Anna
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« Reply #166 on: January 26, 2008, 04:41:06 PM »

O/T Klaas, Post 1284 in the S&S Thread was supposed to be here, the one I just posted.

Could you please delete it from the Shango Thread.  Lord knows they don't need any more confusion over there!


 



I think I answered your post over there.  Leave it...I am the only one confused.


Oh, I don't think you are the only one confused, Lala's.

I made two posts.  The first is OK, the one you answered but the second one is redundant as it was meant for here but I don't think at this point, it really matters.  Just didn't want to interrupt anyone's chain of thought.

I never heard of this The News place before and now here it is popping up everywhere!  What a small world!  {Anna humming Disney Tune by that name}  
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
jackb
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« Reply #167 on: January 26, 2008, 04:44:26 PM »

From Vanity Fair
In those tumultuous first days, Beth's most valuable allies were Julia Renfro, the 37-year-old American-born editor of an English-language daily, Aruba Today, and one of her reporters, Angela Munzenhofer, a tough-talking American whose family runs one of the island's popular restaurants. When Beth walked into the paper's office the day after she arrived, Renfro, a statuesque blonde, stopped the presses to run a front-page photograph of Natalee. Renfro and Munzenhofer both have children, and they identified with Beth's desperation; the three women became inseparable. The first flyers posted around the island carried two numbers people could call with tips: Renfro's and Munzenhofer's cell phones. "


Both versions can't be the truth.  You don't suppose Julia would tell a bold faced lie, do you?




The NEWS

Saw this today on THE NEWS.  Timely, isn't it?   

THE POSTER ISSUE

Glenda Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:48 am   

BhamMom wrote:
According to Glenda, Julia said this was the poster created before arriving in Aruba. 

GLENDA
Not true Bham, you can read my posts back to 2005. I don't know when it was made. Beth gave the Original Hootie "Flyer" on June 1st around 10 am. Beth told Julia that she had made Kidnapped Posters the day before at The News with a picture from Natalee's Camera, but van der Straaten wouldn't allow her to put them up. Beth was very angry at van der Straaten. Julia took the original "flyer" with the 5x7 color photo and made copies of it for her and returned the Original back to Beth. The phone # on the poster was Beth's local #. I don't know if she rented it or if it was a prepaid.
Beth told Julia that the Detective told her that Natalee was in a drug house and would reappear in a few days, that she should just go to the beach and drink pina coladas and wait. Beth established Natatee's character again as she had done the evening before on the phone and stated that Natalee was being held against her will and she had to get her before something happens to her.


Then the Missing Poster was made at ZEROX on June 2 and that is when Beth dragged Vadar to the Police Station. On June 3rd, Beth was repremanded by the ALE for standing on the Street Corner at Renaissance passing out Kidnapped posters to passing cars.

That is the extent of what I know about Posters and Flyers. 

----------


The Vanity Fair version is what we were told early on, that Julia and Angela had their private numbers on that poster because all were concerned that much valuable information could have been easily intercepted by those two.

So why is she saying something different now?  Because Liars lie?

Just wondering.

 

.
 
 
 
 


Julia is a real saint, a real trooper, and she speaks with a forked tongue, which I am sure has resulted in her being an island favorite. We should all pitch in and buy her some knee bads, as she ain't getting any younger, and whenever her mouth is empty and her lips moving, she is lying.

That old hack moves her lips to give a bj, kiss butts, or lie because she is getting too old for the old farts, since she is past 16 or 17.  The old ones are put to some use as long as their lips move and their fingers can type for lying, etc.,         Jack blue
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CapsLockWizard
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« Reply #168 on: January 26, 2008, 04:44:27 PM »


Private eye

are you related to

Buck eye
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Anna
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« Reply #169 on: January 26, 2008, 04:45:50 PM »

Why would anyone kidnap someone to pay off the mob?

The mob I know is perfectly capable of doing their own kidnapping.

Didn't Mos tell us that only the prime suspects plus Paulus are involved according the the dossier that he has seen?  He further stated that involvement of others is fabrication only.

So is he just telling us this to fool us or what?

.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
CapsLockWizard
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« Reply #170 on: January 26, 2008, 04:51:58 PM »


klassend: where is buck eye?

he left or is in the background
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« Reply #171 on: January 26, 2008, 04:52:10 PM »

OK, looks like I cleared the place out with my comments about Paulus' involvement, LOL

I'm sure Natalee was drugged and kidnapped by J2K.  I'm sure there was a confession that something bad happened.  I'm sure Natalee was disposed of and many are involved in the cover up.

The only thing some seem to disagree with me about is the depth of Paulus' involvement.  I'm not that attached to any of my theories, as they can change based on solid information.  The problem is, we don't have that much solid information.

Since I cleared the place, I'll just sneak on out.....



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klaasend
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WWW
« Reply #172 on: January 26, 2008, 04:54:28 PM »


klassend: where is buck eye?

he left or is in the background

Looks like Buckeye has logged off for now. 
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Magnolia
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« Reply #173 on: January 26, 2008, 04:56:30 PM »

Klaas, this creation of yours is AWESOME!

 

Capslockwizard,  It's clear to me you have done a lot of work in a short time to decode the Shango and Simian Posts. 

Some of your theory backs up some of what I feel is true:
 
Natalee was targeted,
she was kidnapped by J2K,
Paulus was involved in the beginning, not just after the fact,
Julia Renfro is in it up to her eyeballs, 
Extreme threats have been issued to those who would talk in the form of beheadings, mutiliation deaths, one-hand-in-pocket hanging suicides indicating involvement of MOB, drug lords
Casinos = MOB
the collusion permeates the highest officials in the government and judiciary

I have often thought of why Paulus would be involved in targeting Natalee.  One scenario I feel is possible, is that he owed a debt to someone, whether a gambling debt, or some other type of debt involving his dirty business dealings with government contracts. 

IMO, the fact that Joe Tacopina is representing the Van der Sloots confirms Paulus' dirty business/MOB connection.

Michael Posner, Excelsior casino owner, is a convicted felon who did time in federal prison for Racketeering (MOB)

    * aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein.

    * his family still resides in Riverwoods.

    * his criminal profile lists involvement in illegal gambling, strip clubs and vending machines.

    * criminal history dates to 1960 includes numerous arrests and successful tax and racketeering prosecutions. 


 

Except for the confession by Joran that something bad happened and she was buried by the fishermans hut and no father would allow his son to be persecuted for the rest of his life as Joran will be for a crime the father committed himself, or no mother. And the recording of the boys when they thought they were alone. The chances are this is simple and the story has been told by the boys own words and actions.

I agree PI.  This was a planned rape gone bad.  Then they called the father to
hide the body.  The total confusion comes in the cover up.

So you think the reason Paulus lies and distances himself from having seen Natalee early in the evening, is solely because of his involvement in disposal?

Perhaps I have put too much importance on Paulus appearance in the casino early that night.  I just have had the feeling he played a bigger part.



I guess my mind just cannot go to Paulus being involved in anything more than
helping with the disposal and cover up.  It is just too ugly to picture.
I do not think this was a complicated crime.  Only the cover up is complicated.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #174 on: January 26, 2008, 05:01:51 PM »

The gang's all here for the memorial for Betico Croes. Anyone recognize the Fat guy next to Oduber?  Confused He doesn't look Aruban to me or part of the MEP,look's more like a Italian or Colombian.MO





I don't know but his "date" looks dressed very "festive" for a funeral.  I think of Idstlou's sig. line: "Get inside my belly"

How hard is it to find a pair of pants that are 40W and 30L?

I think that he looks a lot llike John Candy in 'Uncle Buck'.
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

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Blue Moon
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« Reply #175 on: January 26, 2008, 05:07:36 PM »

Fixed the "looping" problem and the size problem.  Click on the play button:   


<a href="http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/PretzerCommentary5.swf" target="_blank">http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/PretzerCommentary5.swf</a>


You are sooooooo talented.  I enjoy seeing what you have put together for us each day.  In this show Joran looks a little skinny to me, kinda like he has an illness. (MO)
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
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« Reply #176 on: January 26, 2008, 05:09:53 PM »

Is PVDS an Aruban "Svengali"?



Do Aruban's ever go to the casino with their wives or daughters?  Or, it that activity reserved for father's and their sons?

Are their any security recordings of PVDS leaving the casino?  Walking around?

Who were among the group that did 'this' twenty other times?  Nothing bad happened?  In whose opinion?  Anyone ever poll those twenty girls?

What house in Aruba is so big that girls ask Joran if that's his?  The VDS compound?  Another house somewhere?  Perhaps belonging to someone in the circle of friends?
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they'll end up in your family anyway...
private eye
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« Reply #177 on: January 26, 2008, 05:12:53 PM »

Klaas, this creation of yours is AWESOME!

 

Capslockwizard,  It's clear to me you have done a lot of work in a short time to decode the Shango and Simian Posts. 

Some of your theory backs up some of what I feel is true:
 
Natalee was targeted,
she was kidnapped by J2K,
Paulus was involved in the beginning, not just after the fact,
Julia Renfro is in it up to her eyeballs, 
Extreme threats have been issued to those who would talk in the form of beheadings, mutiliation deaths, one-hand-in-pocket hanging suicides indicating involvement of MOB, drug lords
Casinos = MOB
the collusion permeates the highest officials in the government and judiciary

I have often thought of why Paulus would be involved in targeting Natalee.  One scenario I feel is possible, is that he owed a debt to someone, whether a gambling debt, or some other type of debt involving his dirty business dealings with government contracts. 

IMO, the fact that Joe Tacopina is representing the Van der Sloots confirms Paulus' dirty business/MOB connection.

Michael Posner, Excelsior casino owner, is a convicted felon who did time in federal prison for Racketeering (MOB)

    * aka Michael Rubins and Irving Goldstein.

    * his family still resides in Riverwoods.

    * his criminal profile lists involvement in illegal gambling, strip clubs and vending machines.

    * criminal history dates to 1960 includes numerous arrests and successful tax and racketeering prosecutions. 


 

Except for the confession by Joran that something bad happened and she was buried by the fishermans hut and no father would allow his son to be persecuted for the rest of his life as Joran will be for a crime the father committed himself, or no mother. And the recording of the boys when they thought they were alone. The chances are this is simple and the story has been told by the boys own words and actions.

Hey Private Eye,

I'm just trying to give capslock some info on the people he has been asking about.

I don't exclude Joran's culpability by suggesting his father was involved early on. 

After seeing the casino video with Paulus at the table, and his lies about his timeline, do you not believe that Paulus had some type of involvement early in the evening, prior to cover up mode?

I don't think that the involvement of Paulus and J2K is mutually exclusive.




I am saying I can see the logic and have gone down that road, but what stops me is what I posted. There may be a way to reconcile it, I just haven't figured it out yet:) The boys were boys, and usually when a boy cries he utters the truth, and then he recovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #178 on: January 26, 2008, 05:16:16 PM »

Why would anyone kidnap someone to pay off the mob?

The mob I know is perfectly capable of doing their own kidnapping.

Didn't Mos tell us that only the prime suspects plus Paulus are involved according the the dossier that he has seen?  He further stated that involvement of others is fabrication only.

So is he just telling us this to fool us or what?

.

I speculate ... if there was a bigger picture and the plan by the "powers that be" was to kidnap Natalee ... a judge's son would not be placed in a position of being observed by ... how many ... as leaving C&C's with Natalee ... never to be seen again with no established alibi.  His declarations would have been consistent ... no changing stories.

I believe there was a plan that night ... a plan of wrongdoing which involved drugs and gang rape ... a plan that went off without a hitch twenty times before ... a plan that implied that Natalee Holloway would be on her plane home the following morning without any memory of the previous night ... a plan that went terribly wrong.

Janet


++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
'Scarborough Country'
August 26, 2005


DANIELS:  It definitely smells that way.  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
MANSUR:  Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.  There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.

__________


Joran's Changing Stories

1.  Natalee was dropped off at the Holiday Inn and ... Deepak and Satish drove me home.

2.  Deepak and Satish dropped me off at home and ... left with Natalee in the vehicle

3.  I left Natalee at the beach and ... walked home.

4.  I left Natalee at the beach and ... Satish drove me home.

5.  I left Natalee at the beach and ... Deepak drove me home.

6.  I left Natalee at the beach and ... Satish drove me home.

7.  We drove to the lighthouse.

8.  We did not drive to the lighthouse.

9.  ......
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #179 on: January 26, 2008, 05:25:29 PM »

Fixed the "looping" problem and the size problem.  Click on the play button:   


<a href="http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/PretzerCommentary5.swf" target="_blank">http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/PretzerCommentary5.swf</a>


Thank you, KLaas, I had tried to listen previously and could not.  Dana does such good commentary (no great commentary).  I know the hoodlums on Aruba would disagree with me, but that is what they are being paid to do, deny the truth.
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