Natalee Case Discussion #716 1/29 - 1/31/08

[Pita]

I wish I understood more about that phone call.  I've heard that the family has denied there was a phone call.  Yet, Charles Croes stated Beth asked him to listen to a phone message.  Gunslinger, what makes you so sure this was the text of the phone call?  Can anyone clarify what we really know regarding a phone call, presumably from Natalee?

Because I heard it.

Do you think it was Natalee? Back in 2005 it was rumored there were 2 calls..Is that not right?

Yes on both questions.  Only one was real.

Which one was real?

[Observer]

I wish I understood more about that phone call.  I've heard that the family has denied there was a phone call.  Yet, Charles Croes stated Beth asked him to listen to a phone message.  Gunslinger, what makes you so sure this was the text of the phone call?  Can anyone clarify what we really know regarding a phone call, presumably from Natalee?

Because I heard it.

Do you think it was Natalee? Back in 2005 it was rumored there were 2 calls..Is that not right?

Yes on both questions.  Only one was real.

Ok,so you must be reffering to the recording on the MB students phone that Beth had Charles Croes listen to over and over. If it is true,It makes me wonder who's phone made that call? Sanders,Anita's or someone else? You would think they would of known back in June 2005 the phone number that call came from. I remember very vividly everything that was talked about on TV back then before it was never talked about again. The NE Article,Beth's interview on Greta and Jossy Mansur telling us on TV that it came from the Noord area of Aruba.

[ala_gunslinger]

I wish I understood more about that phone call.  I've heard that the family has denied there was a phone call.  Yet, Charles Croes stated Beth asked him to listen to a phone message.  Gunslinger, what makes you so sure this was the text of the phone call?  Can anyone clarify what we really know regarding a phone call, presumably from Natalee?

Because I heard it.

Do you think it was Natalee? Back in 2005 it was rumored there were 2 calls..Is that not right?

Yes on both questions.  Only one was real.

Ok,so you must be reffering to the recording on the MB students phone that Beth had Charles Croes listen to over and over. If it is true,It makes me wonder who's phone made that call? Sanders,Anita's or someone else? You would think they would of known back in June 2005 the phone number that call came from. I remember very vividly everything that was talked about on TV back then before it was never talked about again. The NE Article,Beth's interview on Greta and Jossy Mansur telling us on TV that it came from the Noord area of Aruba.

Yes, thats the one.  One of the few kids that had a phone set up for international use.

[private eye]

Has this been posted yet?  If so, just delete.  I am NOT posting this to validate any phone calls but rather to show how the facts change as Glenda/Julia/"I" go along.  I dont have a link to where on Scrux it was posted as this copy came from RU where it may be that they are finally beginning to notice that they are told different things at different times by this individual whom they continue to grovel to:


From Scrux

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: "Glenda" Postings: C. Croes and Phone Call

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

02-15-2006
That is the quote "Are you calling home" and then hang up! Charles heard it 3 times and said that the the voice sounded young and spoke like American. J2K phones were all checked and there were no calls made from any of their phones to Morris.

02-15-2006
"Are you calling home?" then the line was dropped, like cut off.

02-15-2006
I've been around since May 31st and I have no idea where "I don't know these people?" came from. It sounds like it was a way to make it sound like Natalee was with people she didn't know. Because the phone message that Charles listened to, the male voice was calm and obviously familiar with "home". If it had been Joran -- "Who are you calling?" A kidnapper -- "What are you doing!" In an angry voice and a scuffle for the phone and some kind of female noise from Natalee.

But "Are you calling home?" then the dial hungup -- no scuffle or delay.

02-15-2006
Yes, and according to Beth, this call had nada to do with Natalee. Just a mis-dialed call --- that was never officially reported to the police as even being made, but it was important enough to have Croes listen to it.

02-15-2006
(responding to question: Why meet at a dark Texaco station instead of meeting at the hotel?)
When the Posse arrived (10pm), they explained to the ground crew where the Private Planes land that one of the kids received a phone message and they think it was from Natalee. The ground crew has a close relationship with Croes to be able to get rental phones for VIPs, so the ground crew called him and passed the phone to Beth who explained Natalee's character and that she was missing and her best friend received a strange call and if he could help them locate what phone it came from. Charles lives close to exactly the same distance from the Texaco as the airport, so it was a matter of location, distance and timing that Charles chose the Gas Station. The HI would have been another 2 miles away.
02-15-2006
Charles did not rent any phones to any of the MBKids. He checked.

02-15-2006
Yes, that is what happened! First he called and spoke to Morris who was, according to Charles, sobbing. He spoke to Morris for 10 or 15 minutes and then called back to listen to the message 3 times.

02-15-2006
Beth gave him the number in the parking lot of the Texaco. Charles had Moris go to the refrigerator and get a glass of water to calm down and concentrate while Charles asked him lots of questions.

Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:18 pm
(responding to question why would Natalee call William Morris)
I was told that William was Natalee's closest friend!

Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:14 am
(referring to statement in DeSouza letter that Charles Croes introduced himself as a clairvoyant)
I believe this was HMI method of discrediting / desposal of somebody who who did not agree with them. I'll bet this letter was written right after Charles Croes spoke to Greta. I believe Charles went into great detail with Greta his discussion with William who claimed to have received a phone call from Natalee at 3 am....

Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:26 am
Yeah, and then FEB's bo William gets a call from Natalee while she was being kidnapped by J2K. Did I mention 4am phone call... Time is also interesting.

Could FEB and William know something???

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:18 am
Damn Diamond you are right! Charles and Alberto drove in the direction of the lighthouse ending up at Arashi -- the exact location in Deepak's statement. William gave Charles the impression that he thought Natalee had been taken to the lighthouse and then kidnapped. Why did William set the stage for Kidnapping on the 30th of May. William told Charles he had a missed call from Natalee at 4am -- the same time that Beth tried to pin on Paulus picking Joran and Natalee up at the McDonalds.

One more thing that comes to mind: If Natalee was the most responsible of her class, always on time, Virgin, etc... Why didn't these kids freak out right away and start searching for her - why did they leave the searching in the hands of strangers of another country? -- could it be that only a handful of kids even knew that she was missing and they kept it hush until everyone had departed the gateway?

Back to the Original Perpetrators: With that statement repeated over and over, it seems that Beth really knows what happened to Natalee and that is a suttle warning to the next set of Perpetrators. Beth is very calculating, she warned Julia on July 10th about the Boycott she would launch in September. Shocked

Doesn't Dave wonder about stuff like this, or does he still think the landfill witness, the gardener, and Shango are credible?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:42 am
There is no actual proof that it was Natalee that called, William thought Natalee had tried to call him from the kidnapper's phone and when she got caught, the phone hung up. The call does exist, there is no female voice, and the ALE was not told about this call until months after Natalee had been missing.

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:25 am
I'm pretty sure that Charles was not questioned by the ALE until after Joran was released!!! The same goes for Eric Williams.

Beth told everyone that a psychic by the name of Charles helped her find Joran's house. Shocked She started discrediting him from the get-go.

Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:38 pm
responding to question: "So who did the call come from? Or has 15 months not been enough time for ALE to check the phone records.")
Shizaru I don't know, the ALE tried to get the records from phones of interest to no avail. It is my understanding that the ALE requested the FBI to help with this, but not until the fall.

Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:10 pm
Charles Croes did not lie about this phone call. Beth told several people about the phone call from the kidnappers phone to Natalee's best friend William, when they didn't find Natalee in the first 48 hours of her kidnapping, they realized they couldn't use the Kidnapped Phone Call "Card" and turned Charles into a Clairvoyant to discredit him as he is still the only one besides the Twittys to have heard the call. Those who knew about it were warned not to talk about the phone call to William.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:30 pm
Charles found it strange that the young boy answered the phone so late at night and nobody else seemed to be around. No other voices, he refered to no other person being there. Charles sent the kid to the kitchen to get some water to calm himself down. Charles asked him if he had the water, the boy said he did, then Charles called him a liar and told him to go to the kitchen now. Then the boy (supposedly William) "then" went to the kitchen, opened the fridge, poured the water and drank it. Then after Charles was done speaking to the boy, he called back to the same phone # several times where no one answered so he could pen in the # that Beth gave him to hear the message that was left on the phone. The message was driving sounds and then a male voice "are you calling home?" hangup.

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:51 am
And Byrd's Boyfriend William was the one to inform the Twittys that he received the desperate call from Natalee at 3am. According to Beth, Natalee must have taken the kidnapper's cel phone while they were driving around the lighthouse and dialed her best friend William's phone only to get his answering machine. When the Kidnapper saw that Natalee had his phone, he said sternly "Are you calling home?" The line was disconnected.

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:34 am
ViVi is hoping by inserting herself in the middle I will not answer. Very Happy

Now to your Question: Beth used the term Answering Machine not Voice Message. I always thought Beth was referring to William's cel phone voice message until recently someone brought up that maybe the at-home-alone-crying teenager it wasn't William, but Matt Holloway who spoke to Charles Croes. This theory (which seems like it would be easy to confirm or debunk from phone records) would explain several things:

1. The rumor that a message was left on the Twitty answering machine at 3am saying “I don’t know these people” to suggest kidnapping as “Are you calling Home?” doesn’t sound to threatening – more like a friend asking Natalee if she was calling home.

2. Charles listened to the message several times and he is sure the male voice said “Are you calling HOME?” At 3 am Twitty-time would be 4 am Aruba time, hence the false accusations of Paulus picking up Joran & Natalee at the Mc Donalds at 4 am suggesting that Natalee was in the car with Paulus & Joran.

3. This strange phone message could also explain Beth’s instant Kidnapping theory – because of the 3am phone call to her “HOME” phone. Also, Charles was called just a few minutes after the private plane had landed and he was asked to meet ASAP to evaluate where that phone call came from? And if he had rented any of the students a phone.

4. If the call was actually made to Natalee’s best friend William, when could Beth have found out about the call? William’s flight left at 3:01 and the flight time is 4 hours and 15 minutes, putting him at 7:16 pm as the soonest he could have turned his phone on to hear the messages. The posse had already departed from Alabama to Aruba so how could William have contacted Beth to tell her about the message?

What doesn't make sense is why the Twittys failed to tell the ALE about the phone call -- especially when asked why do you think your daughter was kidnapped? Do you have a lot of Money? Are you a political figure? Do you have any reason to think that your daughter has been kidnapped? Beth's answer, Well yes officer, she was a straight A Honor student who has never been late for anything in her life. She did not drink, smoke and she was a virgin and based on that, I know that she was kidnapped!
 

Thank you Anna.

The implication of Julia Renfro's words (highlighed) imply that Charles Croes was contacted by one of the handlers while the Twitty group was still at the airport and ... Beth was the one who spoke to Charles Croes ... requested his assistance and ... then the arranged meeting took place almost immediately ... prior to the Twitty group meeting up with Paul Lily and Eric Williams at the Holiday Inn.

The assertations and timeline spew forth from the leader of the misinformation campaign goes against the all the claims of Natalee's mother and stepfather.

Beth's words in LOVING NATALEE reveals that the handlers drove the group directly to the Holiday Inn where she had her first encounter with Eric Williams.

Jug's response to the Monkey's questionaire ... Eric Williams contacted Charles Croes.

Beth's words in LOVING NATALEE reveals that it was Eric Williams who introduced her and Jug to Charles Croes at the early morning meeting at the gas station.

Janet

+++++++++++++


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 36
All of us load up into the handlers’ big white van and head for the Holiday Inn.

Page 38
We arrive at the Holiday Inn, get out of the van, and go inside the open-air lobby of the hotel. The coach and DEA agent are to our left, and we turn to walk toward them. I go straight to the DEA agent and begin telling him what we know

Page 41
The DEA agent asks for Natalee's cell phone and passport. …The agent looks at Natalee's things a few moments, then gives them back to me.
 
Page 41
When I return to the lobby the DEA agent suggest we go to Carlos 'n Charlie's to as questions and show her picture around. So we load up and head back to the shipyard area.
 
Page 42
Making their way inside the bar the men dodge a couple of fistfights and dope-smoking patrons to try to find someone with information. They don't learn anything, so we all load up again and drive to a nearby gas station, where the DEA agent wants to introduce us to someone associated with the island cell-phone company to help us get phones and set up communications among our group.


Jug Twitty
Monkey Questionaire
January 29, 2008

<snipped>

2)Do you know who called in Charles Croes that first night?

Jug: Eric Williams

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg333731#msg333731

According to Matt, the phone call was made Sunday morning in the early AM, and due to the date they first mistook it for a call the night Natalee disappeared, which would have been Monday, in the AM, if I stated that correctly. It was a valid call, only it was the night before Natalee disappeared.

When I called the Monday when Beth was first notified that Natalee was missing, I called 3 FBI locations, Wahington DC, and then a neighboring island, I can't spell it but it was Car? where we have a US office. This was about 1:00PM Monday or so, and one of those offices explained that we had no presence in Aruba, but that we happened to have a US agent there of some kind, I really can't remember the exact type, but that they would contact him, advise him of the situation, I told them that a chaperone was still there, and they assured me he would be ables to assist Beth. This was before Beth even got to Birmingham, she was outside of Memphis.

That is why I have always thought this guy was legit, because I expected him to be there. To be honest, I didn't talk to Beth personally before she got to Aruba, I was left a message with my family, and I didn't talk to her for some time after she got to Aruba.

[private eye]

I feel like they called Croes because they mistook the message from the AM of Sunday with being the PM of Sunday or the AM of Monday, the confusion of the date and all of the excitement, and they thought the phone call might be of importance. But it wasn't.

[Nut44x4]

Curacao?

[CapsLockWizard]

Klaasend: MBOX
LALA: MBOX

[bleachedblack]

I wish I understood more about that phone call.  I've heard that the family has denied there was a phone call.  Yet, Charles Croes stated Beth asked him to listen to a phone message.  Gunslinger, what makes you so sure this was the text of the phone call?  Can anyone clarify what we really know regarding a phone call, presumably from Natalee?

Because I heard it.

Do you think it was Natalee? Back in 2005 it was rumored there were 2 calls..Is that not right?

Yes on both questions.  Only one was real.

Ok,so you must be reffering to the recording on the MB students phone that Beth had Charles Croes listen to over and over. If it is true,It makes me wonder who's phone made that call? Sanders,Anita's or someone else? You would think they would of known back in June 2005 the phone number that call came from. I remember very vividly everything that was talked about on TV back then before it was never talked about again. The NE Article,Beth's interview on Greta and Jossy Mansur telling us on TV that it came from the Noord area of Aruba.

Could this be the reason sanders phone was conveniently lost?

[AZLady]

I feel like they called Croes because they mistook the message from the AM of Sunday with being the PM of Sunday or the AM of Monday, the confusion of the date and all of the excitement, and they thought the phone call might be of importance. But it wasn't.

PI and Gunslinger, thank you.  That explanation clears it up for me.  I was confused.  I wanted to believe Gunslinger who said he heard the call, but then the family said it was not from Natalee, but then Croes said on Greta that Beth asked him to listen to a call...  I think you can see why I was confused!  Apparently there was a call, but it must have been a wrong number or something and was not related to this case as it was made the night before Natalee went missing.  I think I understand now.  If not, someone will correct me!   

[AZLady]

[Could this be the reason sanders phone was conveniently lost?

Probably not, if the call was not relevant to Natalee's disappearance.  However, I do think Sander's phone going missing was related to Natalee's disappearance.  Frankly, I'm surprised more of their phone didn't "go missing."

[Observer]

I wish I understood more about that phone call.  I've heard that the family has denied there was a phone call.  Yet, Charles Croes stated Beth asked him to listen to a phone message.  Gunslinger, what makes you so sure this was the text of the phone call?  Can anyone clarify what we really know regarding a phone call, presumably from Natalee?

Because I heard it.

Could this be the reason sanders phone was conveniently lost?

Or for other reasons..Being some place he didn't want to be traced to or his phone contacting people he didn't want the LE to know about. He said it was stolen at school on the 29th,so that gives him reason to blame any calls that were made on someone else. When he was interviewed week's later he said he never reported the theft.

[bleachedblack]

Hmmmmmmmmmm

[private eye]

Curacao?

Yes, I apologize but I was too tired to think:)

[private eye]

I feel like they called Croes because they mistook the message from the AM of Sunday with being the PM of Sunday or the AM of Monday, the confusion of the date and all of the excitement, and they thought the phone call might be of importance. But it wasn't.

PI and Gunslinger, thank you.  That explanation clears it up for me.  I was confused.  I wanted to believe Gunslinger who said he heard the call, but then the family said it was not from Natalee, but then Croes said on Greta that Beth asked him to listen to a call...  I think you can see why I was confused!  Apparently there was a call, but it must have been a wrong number or something and was not related to this case as it was made the night before Natalee went missing.  I think I understand now.  If not, someone will correct me!   

Of course that was just one phone call that bugged me and when I saw Matt I asked him and he explained this one to me.

[ala_gunslinger]

I feel like they called Croes because they mistook the message from the AM of Sunday with being the PM of Sunday or the AM of Monday, the confusion of the date and all of the excitement, and they thought the phone call might be of importance. But it wasn't.

PI and Gunslinger, thank you.  That explanation clears it up for me.  I was confused.  I wanted to believe Gunslinger who said he heard the call, but then the family said it was not from Natalee, but then Croes said on Greta that Beth asked him to listen to a call...  I think you can see why I was confused!  Apparently there was a call, but it must have been a wrong number or something and was not related to this case as it was made the night before Natalee went missing.  I think I understand now.  If not, someone will correct me!   

So there was a phone call to the house as well.

[AZLady]

I spent hours last night reading the Shango/Simian thread.  Lala's, you've done a remarkable job of picking and pulling at those posts to try to get at the truth.  Very interesting stuff there.  While I may not agree with everyone's interpretations, I do like to see the Monkey's working together and analyzing the smallest details.  Fascinating stuff.

[AZLady]

I feel like they called Croes because they mistook the message from the AM of Sunday with being the PM of Sunday or the AM of Monday, the confusion of the date and all of the excitement, and they thought the phone call might be of importance. But it wasn't.

PI and Gunslinger, thank you.  That explanation clears it up for me.  I was confused.  I wanted to believe Gunslinger who said he heard the call, but then the family said it was not from Natalee, but then Croes said on Greta that Beth asked him to listen to a call...  I think you can see why I was confused!  Apparently there was a call, but it must have been a wrong number or something and was not related to this case as it was made the night before Natalee went missing.  I think I understand now.  If not, someone will correct me!   

So there was a phone call to the house as well.

I understood Beth to say the phone call to the house came months later and was ascertained to be a crank call. 

[klaasend]

Gunslinger - Can you tell us if you believe the call you heard could have been Natalee? 

[bleachedblack]

I feel like they called Croes because they mistook the message from the AM of Sunday with being the PM of Sunday or the AM of Monday, the confusion of the date and all of the excitement, and they thought the phone call might be of importance. But it wasn't.

PI and Gunslinger, thank you.  That explanation clears it up for me.  I was confused.  I wanted to believe Gunslinger who said he heard the call, but then the family said it was not from Natalee, but then Croes said on Greta that Beth asked him to listen to a call...  I think you can see why I was confused!  Apparently there was a call, but it must have been a wrong number or something and was not related to this case as it was made the night before Natalee went missing.  I think I understand now.  If not, someone will correct me!   

So there was a phone call to the house as well.

I understood Beth to say the phone call to the house came months later and was ascertained to be a crank call. 

I recall her talking on Dr Phil about that call. Music playing, "mommy"....that was deemed a fake.

[Observer]

So there was a phone call to the house as well.

I understood Beth to say the phone call to the house came months later and was ascertained to be a crank call. 

I think that was the call after the hurricane. The blog rumors back in 2005 had a short recording on a answering machine. I think the rumor had a Aruban male voice asking her name..She said Natalee then the call was disconnected.