Natalee Case Discussion #717 1/31 - 2/01/08

[Nut44x4]

The boat was handy...Sander admitted it was near the beach.  Where was Koen and Sander?  Were they still on the boat?  Were the parent Gottenbos out of town leaving the Sander and Koen alone?  Party time!  Just finishing a party around 4 in the morning?  How did Koen get to the boat?  Several people involved here...do we have a photo that shows the exact location of this sandbar?  Would this coincide with the witness that saw Joran swimming out with a body?  I am rambling now...sorry.

There was a rumor of this?? Joran swimming out with a body ??

Yes...I remember it.

[Lala'sMom]

Remember Monkeys:

No Body, No case.

They play the MASTER KEY Card once allready and it is still valid... The MASTER KEY card can be used Again even if he confess,
If there is not a body to link the crime to, and this time it will be in Holland, When they play the MASTERKEY Card, he will walk again

and this time he will play another card that is complete protection...He is in Holland in his country.  The case was in Aruba. He will play that in The appeals Court.

Remeber make shure USA has someway to Cancel the MASTER Key Card.

And the MASTER KEY would be? Please tell us.

[CapsLockWizard]

Remember the words of Shango, If there is a simple doubt about the case, even after he has talk, you can not convict.

He will,  make sure that after he talk, that there is a doubt.

I can bet you at this moment he is beeing prepared by The Judge.

[Nut44x4]

Just check out the damn smirk on his mug. Always a smirk. He needs to be put away so he will not harm anyone ever again.
http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2018509.ece

[CapsLockWizard]

LALA:

The Body.

[Magnolia]

The boat was handy...Sander admitted it was near the beach.  Where was Koen and Sander?  Were they still on the boat?  Were the parent Gottenbos out of town leaving the Sander and Koen alone?  Party time!  Just finishing a party around 4 in the morning?  How did Koen get to the boat?  Several people involved here...do we have a photo that shows the exact location of this sandbar?  Would this coincide with the witness that saw Joran swimming out with a body?  I am rambling now...sorry.

There was a rumor of this?? Joran swimming out with a body ??

Yes...I remember it.

Wasn't that the guy with the frozen condom?  The authorities discredited him
real fast.

[cubbeegirl]

The boat was handy...Sander admitted it was near the beach.  Where was Koen and Sander?  Were they still on the boat?  Were the parent Gottenbos out of town leaving the Sander and Koen alone?  Party time!  Just finishing a party around 4 in the morning?  How did Koen get to the boat?  Several people involved here...do we have a photo that shows the exact location of this sandbar?  Would this coincide with the witness that saw Joran swimming out with a body?  I am rambling now...sorry.

There was a rumor of this?? Joran swimming out with a body ??

I remember it as well...

Yes...I remember it.

[Lala'sMom]

LALA:

The Body.

There is no body....oh...I get it.  As long as there is no body...whatever he says doesn't really matter.  No body...no case.  If K is the one that helped dispose of the body...there are witnesses now...uh oh...one witness is not a witness. 

[Tylergal]

Influential?  Didn't the Gottenbos daddy sell insurance or something like that?  I can't remember. I do think they had a better house than the Sloots, but if all Koen did was drive the boat...then he could have already talked and been free.  He could have claimed that Joran threatened him in some way and made him help him.I mean who runs out to sea with a body in your boat and doesn't hesitate for a moment?  Koen is an accessory and needs to be brought in.  I hope the Gottenbos are not so stupid as to be talking to the Sloots right now...I suspect Paulus would have no trouble shoving K under that bus too. MOO

Blood is thicker than water, especially when the blood line is related to the mafioso.

[MumInOhio]

Lala's found this...


Suspect(s)

From June 8th 2005 Nancy Grace....they do not appear to be talking about the Kalpoes.

 IMO  Maybe Koen and Sander

GRACE: OK, let me quickly go to defense attorney Daniel Horowitz standing by. Daniel Horowitz, this is basically bass-ackwards from the way that it works in America. Because you don`t arrest somebody and put them in a cell of an administration building by the jail unless you`ve got a case against them. You don`t get arrested while the state, while the prosecutor, tries to put together a case.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly, Nancy. And there`s a problem with this, also. It focuses on these two men so much, and it doesn`t give them the freedom to be out and prove their innocence or gather evidence on their own behalf. You know, Nancy, these guys could be patsies. I`m concerned about those three rich kids who were with this young lady and supposedly dropped her off at a hotel and then she just vanishes. I don`t like the idea of the focus on these two guys alone.

GRACE: Let me go back to Karl Penhaul on that very issue. Karl Penhaul, CNN correspondent, is with us in Aruba. Karl, there are murmurings to that exact issue, that these two security guards are being targeted while the actual guys that were with her, that took her away from the restaurant, have been set free. Explain. Why are these two being held? Did they run into the girl after the other three let her go? I mean, why are they being held and the other three have been let go? Is it true they are from rich or influential families, while these two are not? PENHAUL: That`s the question on a lot of people`s lips right now, Nancy. We`ve been talking around. We`ve also been talking to the suspects` families. A number of answers to that. The three young men last seen in the company of Natalee Holloway outside Carlos and Charlie`s, we understand, were never arrested, were never detained by police. Yes, they were interviewed. But the police in a press conference earlier this week have said that no evidence in terms of the car that they all drove away in was confiscated at any stage. Meanwhile, the two suspects, three of their vehicles have been confiscated. One of the suspect`s mother`s cars, a cousin`s car, I believe, and one of the cars belonging to one of the suspects. Those are being looked at, even though there`s nothing, apparently, according to the defense attorneys, in any witness statement to suggest that Natalee Holloway was ever seen in the company of these two suspects, let alone got in their cars.

As far as the identities of the three people, the young men that are being named or were named as persons of interest, indeed, they do seem to be from influential families, certainly middle-class families, a little difficult in this context to spell out exactly whom they are.

But what the mother of Mickey John -- Antonius John, but Mickey his mother calls him -- what she says is that here what is at stake, or one part of the problem is, is that there`s a race issue here, because the people, the three young men are of influential, middle-class, largely white families, descendents of the Dutch colonizers that once came here, whereas the two suspects are from black immigrant families who maybe have been here for many years but nevertheless are still regarded as immigrants.

 
 
 

[Tylergal]

There is a meltdown going on at RU.

SUNMOONSTARS
There was a report from a reputable news source today that his parents were told. They said he trusted the wrong person. I don't think they would be saying that if they don't KNOW Joran has said something serious.
I have no intention of arguing anymore, I just don't get this attitude. I thought everyone wanted the truth, no matter what.

HELI

Go to the transcript I just posted of Greta interviewing from Holland.
She must have some info from someone about what Joran has confessed
to and it's completely different from some of the other shit that's been
sent floating into the ether.

He took her out beyond the sandbar and let her go ... essentially he
murdered her.

Hey, I'm beginning to think de Vries won't give a shit how his sting
operation is received or if it advances the case; he's making a ton of
money and even if it's a total bomb he can laugh all the way to the bank.

Does this mean no more $$$ for SMS?

[Red]

There are been speculation regarding whether Joran had been arrested today. This is what I had learned from Jossy today.

No, he was not arrested. I don't know where the rumor started, but we checked with our contacts within the Prosecution and the Police, and they confirmed it was not true. They also confirmed that no order went out from Aruba to make the arrest.

[CapsLockWizard]

Bravo Bravo.....

The wizard 

[BUCKSHOT]

New evidence might make the gardner look credible after all...

Let's wait here, on the side of the road, while (Paulus, Koen, Sander, Guido) comes to help us........

The gardner was no match, if he were telling the truth, for the ALE. They were ablt to suppress and discredit him very easily.

[Lala'sMom]

The boat was handy...Sander admitted it was near the beach.  Where was Koen and Sander?  Were they still on the boat?  Were the parent Gottenbos out of town leaving the Sander and Koen alone?  Party time!  Just finishing a party around 4 in the morning?  How did Koen get to the boat?  Several people involved here...do we have a photo that shows the exact location of this sandbar?  Would this coincide with the witness that saw Joran swimming out with a body?  I am rambling now...sorry.

There was a rumor of this?? Joran swimming out with a body ??

Yes...I remember it.

Wasn't that the guy with the frozen condom?  The authorities discredited him
real fast.

Yes that is him...many of us speculated that Joran was swimming out to Sander's boat that night. It's in the archives somewhere.  Joran knew the boat was there...he was invited by Sander. Maybe what the witness saw was Joran wrapping the body up and getting ready to dispose of it.

[Bearlyhere]

There are been speculation regarding whether Joran had been arrested today. This is what I had learned from Jossy today.

No, he was not arrested. I don't know where the rumor started, but we checked with our contacts within the Prosecution and the Police, and they confirmed it was not true. They also confirmed that no order went out from Aruba to make the arrest.

Thanks, Red, and thanks for all of the front page articles, too.

[BUCKSHOT]

Lala's found this...


Suspect(s)

From June 8th 2005 Nancy Grace....they do not appear to be talking about the Kalpoes.

 IMO  Maybe Koen and Sander

GRACE: OK, let me quickly go to defense attorney Daniel Horowitz standing by. Daniel Horowitz, this is basically bass-ackwards from the way that it works in America. Because you don`t arrest somebody and put them in a cell of an administration building by the jail unless you`ve got a case against them. You don`t get arrested while the state, while the prosecutor, tries to put together a case.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly, Nancy. And there`s a problem with this, also. It focuses on these two men so much, and it doesn`t give them the freedom to be out and prove their innocence or gather evidence on their own behalf. You know, Nancy, these guys could be patsies. I`m concerned about those three rich kids who were with this young lady and supposedly dropped her off at a hotel and then she just vanishes. I don`t like the idea of the focus on these two guys alone.

GRACE: Let me go back to Karl Penhaul on that very issue. Karl Penhaul, CNN correspondent, is with us in Aruba. Karl, there are murmurings to that exact issue, that these two security guards are being targeted while the actual guys that were with her, that took her away from the restaurant, have been set free. Explain. Why are these two being held? Did they run into the girl after the other three let her go? I mean, why are they being held and the other three have been let go? Is it true they are from rich or influential families, while these two are not? PENHAUL: That`s the question on a lot of people`s lips right now, Nancy. We`ve been talking around. We`ve also been talking to the suspects` families. A number of answers to that. The three young men last seen in the company of Natalee Holloway outside Carlos and Charlie`s, we understand, were never arrested, were never detained by police. Yes, they were interviewed. But the police in a press conference earlier this week have said that no evidence in terms of the car that they all drove away in was confiscated at any stage. Meanwhile, the two suspects, three of their vehicles have been confiscated. One of the suspect`s mother`s cars, a cousin`s car, I believe, and one of the cars belonging to one of the suspects. Those are being looked at, even though there`s nothing, apparently, according to the defense attorneys, in any witness statement to suggest that Natalee Holloway was ever seen in the company of these two suspects, let alone got in their cars.

As far as the identities of the three people, the young men that are being named or were named as persons of interest, indeed, they do seem to be from influential families, certainly middle-class families, a little difficult in this context to spell out exactly whom they are.

But what the mother of Mickey John -- Antonius John, but Mickey his mother calls him -- what she says is that here what is at stake, or one part of the problem is, is that there`s a race issue here, because the people, the three young men are of influential, middle-class, largely white families, descendents of the Dutch colonizers that once came here, whereas the two suspects are from black immigrant families who maybe have been here for many years but nevertheless are still regarded as immigrants.

 
 
Might turn out to be more than one influential elite white dutch family, but, at the time, Daniel Howorowitz (no offense) did not have half a clue what he was referring to. He was probably referring to J2K as three elite white dutch kids.

[truthseeker2]

I have seen it posted here that Koen and Joran may be cousins.  Do we know that for a fact?  If so, does that relationship stem from Anita's family or Paul's family?

Also, were Koen's and Sander's parents off the island that night?  Both parents? 

The reason I ask is because I was thinking about Sander inviting Joran out on the boat that day.  I don't remember anyone saying whether or not his father would be on the boat as well.  Just thinking.....

[CapsLockWizard]

LALA:

The Must Be 2 witness for a conviction... but then they will play the "Not reliable Withness" for one of the witness.

The father can not testified against the son. The mother will Lie. July the reporter got his papers, etc

[CapsLockWizard]

LALA:

The Must Be 2 witness for a conviction... but then they will play the "Not reliable Witness" for one of the witness.

The father can not testified against the son. The mother will Lie. July the reporter got his papers, etc

If no Second Withness, and Not A body, He will Walk