Natalee Case Discussion #718 2/01 - 2/02/08

[Tamikosmom]

Marco@RU
translation Joran's interview on pauw & witteman

question: How did this all happen, with this so called confession:

Joran: Yes, I did say something to someone I should not have said, it's a story
to someone I have know for a while.

[question: How long have you known him?

Joran: about 6 months.

quistion: what did you tell him:

Joran: Yes, well everyone will see it this sunday, ha ha ha , but I can easily proof that what I said is not true, it's a whole lot about nothing, and it's kinda sad that they brought the mother over here and that they told her, but we'll see it all.

question: Is it now not right to say right now what you said, and why it is that what you said is not true.

Joran: I talked to my parents and my lawyer and they told me how it is, and they said also , just don't say anything.

question: The news said tonight that it's about the news that after you made out with Natalee that you , that she got sick, and became lifeless, and that you called a friend and he came with a boat and that you went on the boat with her and that you threw her in the water , you glide her in the water.

Joran, Yes, that's what I said.

question: Is that not very dumb of you to say that?

Joran: Yes it is very dumb, but what I'm trying to say is that I have build up a relationship with someone for 6 months, and yes, that person, it's very difficult to explain, but that person did very brave (?), and I told him what he wanted to hear.

question: How did you know what he wanted to hear?

Joran: Well I had my suspicion a little bit, because he talked to other friends of mine, I did not have a super good feeling towards him,

question: but then, Joran it is unbelievable dumb to just say this, if it's not true.

Joran: It's so dumb, it's so dumb, it's so dumb, it's really dumb.

question: do you think you will be arrested again?

Joran: No, I don't think so.
Maybe it could be, they have arrested me before for less than this, but I have been tricked.

question: Have you talked more to this friend who got this story from you?

Joran: I just had a conversation with him, for about 20 minutes.

quistion: and did you (uitgekafferd) **** (lol) on him?

Joran: No, I still talk with him normal.

question: But he betrayed you, or not?

Joran: Yes, but he does not want to talk, he says, what is coming is coming on sunday.

quiestion: but we've heard that he received money from peter van de vries, to get a confession from you.

Joran: Yes, I don't know, I think he has more than enough money himself, but, we'll see.

question: what kind of boy is he?

Joran: You see, I don't know what they are going to show this sunday, but this is a boy, he's an older man, I met him, and we've met a lot, I found him to be fascinating, I was very interested in him, and I, ha ha ha, just told him what he wanted to hear,

question: but how did you not know then that he was not honest, that you told him just what he wanted to hear?

Joran: Yes well, he did a lot of thing you should not do, things that I would never do myself, some of these things he did do,

question: example?

Joran: I don't want to give an example, I don't want to talk someone down, but it now shows that he used me
(loose translation)

question: yes with a hidden microphone and a hidden camera, you never noticed that, it would seem.

Joran: These days these things are so little, but it's just been unbelievable dumb, really really, not normal dumb, and I hope that will become more peaceful because it seems that all hell is breaking loose.

question: Have you had contact with the boy that might have moved the body of Natalee?

Joran: Yes, no, that's just a boy I met on Aruba, just now, when I was there,

question: Did you speak to him?

Joran: But now I just met him.

question: Does the police have contact with this boy now?

Joran: Yes, well I don't know, I don't know it all.
I have talked to my parents and my lawyer, and I just don't know what's happening now.
I don't know what the OM is thinking.
I think they are going to investigate it all, and it will show that it is not that way.

question: you have contact with your dad, does your dad have contact with the OM?
Joran: I don't know, I think he had a conversation with Mr. Mos, but it's only about security.

question: Oh so it was not about an new investigation?

Joran: No

question: Because, Mr Mos has said, this is the missing part, your confession.

Joran: Yes, it's very (vervelend) nasty but what I said was not true, and they can found out if it's true or not.

question: So you did not go with Natalee in a boat into the water and put her in the water?

Joran: No of course not.

question: That did not happen for sure?

Joran: No,

question: And how can we find out that that is not true, as you say?

Joran: Yes, I don't know, it has to do with that person, that after two and a half years with that person, that's not possible
(Joran talks in half sentences here)
No, I, it's just been very stupid.

question: do you blame de Vries?

Joran : NO, he does his job, I think that sunday night will bring very good tv night , but it's too bad that with this there are a lot of feelings for a lot of people involved here, and they will be hurt, and that's not a good tv program, but that's the way it is.

question: Joran, but now for all the people that are now thinking, Joran vd Sloot has lied from the beginning , and we talked around this table with Peter de Vries, and now it seems like again he lied again to someone else, why should we believe Joran vd Sloot?

Joran: Yes, I ask myself the same thing, there is no reason to believe me.

question: are you going to watch sunday evening?

Joran: I think I will watch sunday evening, I

question: will you consider to come to our program the next day to give your reaction?

Joran: I don't know, I think for myself I don't want to react, I'm pretty sober about it, but we'll see.

We'll call on monday again.
Thank you very much.

This P&W interview with does not set right with me.

On the advise of his attorneys and father ... Joran was able to keep keep silent following the November, 2007 detention yet ...

Hey ... Joran even claims he is not angry at Peter Devries or ... the guy who betrayed him.  Joran even claims he was suspicious of the informant yet ... he still spews forth this confession that only implicates him.  Joran seems resigned regarding the Sunday viewing of the tape.  Does not make sense!

The Aruban plan ... Joran reveals a confession only implicating himself and ... then proclaims to the world he lied but ... the world knows that he is a liar so ... the confession that only implicates Joran will be embraced as the truth.

Janet

[BUCKSHOT]

No one has done the perp walk.
The deciison from Aruba will be a PR motivated one, not one driven by Justice or Law.

THERE IS A LOT OF TRUTH IN THIS STATEMENT.

[GabbyG]

I was so struck by Beth on the video and concerned for her obvious pain that I haven't really thought about the implications of her words, but I would imagine that when the show airs, Arubans are going to be nodding in agreement about her directive to "look what they've done, to a country...."

The Van der Sloots are going to be the most hated people in the world, much less a small island dependant on tourism.

Only Beth would think of others at what had to be the worst moment of her life.  She lost that 1% that we were secretly hoping for.

She never mentioned herself even though Peter prompted her.  For all the #$%^&s that thought Beth's crusade was about Beth and getting publicity for her (Beth), she never thought of herself, even at the lowest moment of her life.

yes Bearly, I had those same thoughts when I watched that clip with Beth. There she was, at what had to be the most horrendous moment yet for her, a moment she has most likely dreaded but knew would come sooner or later....and what were her thoughts then, at that moment? She showed concern and caring for the VERY island that has crucified her from the start...Aruba. She showed hurt for the same people who kicked her, knocked her down, and as she was trying to get back up kicked her again...Aruba. Her words..."Look what they have done to a country". If the people who are responsible for all the slander and pain to Beth can't see the goodness and genuine concern in her words there, they truly are a people without a heart.
I stand in awe of her...

[truthseeker2]

I thought the prosecutor saw the tape already?

I have confidence that Peter deVries, after having watched the fate of previous credible evidence, has duplicated and safely stored away the original.

He may have given them only a portion of the evidence for fear of its getting watered down or strategically countered. In the past, as discussed earlier, Aruba has been able to confiscate evidence, have damage control meetings, make things (and people) vanish, and the rest of the world never knows differently.  THIS TIME AROUND, PeterDeVries will allow everyone to judge for themselves. ALE will have no choice, should they wish to begin rebuilding their image, but to take appropriate action.
[/quote]

I hope you are right.

[Tamikosmom]

This P&W interview with Joran does not set right with me.

On the advise of his attorneys and father ... Joran was able to keep keep silent following the November, 2007 detention yet ...

Hey ... Joran even claims he is not angry at Peter Devries or ... the guy who betrayed him.  Joran even claims he was suspicious of the informant yet ... he still spews forth this confession that only implicates him.  Joran seems resigned regarding the Sunday viewing of the tape.  Does not make sense!

The Aruban plan ... Joran reveals a confession only implicating himself and ... then proclaims to the world he lied but ... the world knows that he is a liar so ... the confession that only implicates Joran will be embraced as the truth.

Janet

In other words ... Joran knew he was being taped and ... the "powers that be" in the investigation knew he was being taped.

IMO

Janet

[cubbeegirl]

In a few short hours I will be attending a candlelight vigil marking the one year anniversary of the death of another beautiful young girl who had her bright, shining future snatched from her by some moron who doesn't even have the decency to admit to what he has done and give her mother the peace of mind to at least know what happened to her daughter.I have seen first hand the gut-wrenching agony this mother has felt for 3 days not knowing where her daughter was and what had happened to her. Dave and Beth have felt this agony for 3 years. I have seen first-hand as my friend has tried to pick up the pieces of her broken heart and bravely try to get justice for her daughter. I cannot fathom what it has to be like for Dave and Beth and their families to go on like this for 3 long years.There is no justice here on earth to compensate for the wrong that has been done these parents, but I still want to see the players in this crime pay a price here on earth for what they have done.It might not be enough, but I firmly believe in my heart that the day will come when they will have to answer to God for the wrong they have done , and when that day comes there will be no hiding, no running and no lying.I sincerely hope that the people who have done this spend the rest of their life in fear of the just punishment that awaits them.

[nimrod]

Wouldn't surprise me if Joe T. tried to block ABC from showing video?

[Sue]

Personally I think the FBI should get at national warrent have Joran
arrested brought to US and end this nightmare..If Holland/ Aruba cant handle this
issue give it to the people that can.. let that little shit deal with our system

[Nut44x4]

@ RU
WildBill wrote:
I asked about this before, so I hope no one minds me bringing it up again, but this all sounds like the stuff that got thrown around on the talk shows the last time JVDS was arrested. Remember the talk about what new evidence Mos had and what got thrown around was electronic communication, someone "planted" who befriended JVDS, multiple jurisdictions, etc. Then nothing came of that.

But now, here it is.

Does anyone else recall it that way? I am wondering if there were many people in the know that this sting was underway. I am wondering if Mos knew it was underway and prematurely arrested him, expecting to get the tapes from DeVries. As I recall, at the time of the JVDS arrest, most of those rumors came from JQK who claimed he had some info from KJ, I think, not entirely sure.

Maybe this does not hold water because of the timing. Still, the coincidence of those earlier rumors is there.

Any thoughts?
~~~~~~~~~~~

Glenda responds >>>  BINGO BILL!

[KarmaRoundUp]

Janet
I agree with you.  Unless there are names mentioned in that video...Joran is all that is left to deal with.  He confessed to getting rid of Natalee's body. It was Natalee that Joran says took the drugs..it was just an accident.  Without a name of the person that helped him there is nothing ALE, Mos, or even DeVries can do at this point.  Joran has been here before...just keep quiet...remember nothing...and it's over. If you were even remotely involved would you say anything now?  Not now that Joran is taking all the blame.

I know everyone is tired of me saying this so I will bow out now. I am not trying to be a damper on the enthusiasm of the moment.  I just don't trust anyone in Aruba or Hollland after what I have seen for 2 years.  The quicker they find a scapegoat and he confesses the quicker One Happy Island can get on with life.  This is all the Arubans have ever wanted...not justice...just a scapegoat.  Joran has played this beautifully.  I want to be wrong on this...I really, really do.  Oh how I want to be wrong.

I agree with everything you said.  I feel like I am being very negative but the bottom line is Aruba has created this negativity because we know they don't want anyone punished because some American girl died at the hands of one of their own.

BOTTOM LINE IS THEY DON'T CARE.  THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT GETTING THE MONEY BACK INTO THEIR TOURISM SO THEY CAN CONTINUE THEIR DRUG TRADE AND MONEY LAUNDERING.

Yes,I truly believe this.

[Blonde]

Janet
I agree with you.  Unless there are names mentioned in that video...Joran is all that is left to deal with.  He confessed to getting rid of Natalee's body. It was Natalee that Joran says took the drugs..it was just an accident.  Without a name of the person that helped him there is nothing ALE, Mos, or even DeVries can do at this point.  Joran has been here before...just keep quiet...remember nothing...and it's over. If you were even remotely involved would you say anything now?  Not now that Joran is taking all the blame.

I know everyone is tired of me saying this so I will bow out now. I am not trying to be a damper on the enthusiasm of the moment.  I just don't trust anyone in Aruba or Hollland after what I have seen for 2 years.  The quicker they find a scapegoat and he confesses the quicker One Happy Island can get on with life.  This is all the Arubans have ever wanted...not justice...just a scapegoat.  Joran has played this beautifully.  I want to be wrong on this...I really, really do.  Oh how I want to be wrong.

If they find Natalee's body and there is evidence of a head wound that puts drugs on the back burner.  From the very beginning, in almost every early lie, Joran has mentioned that Natalee hit her head.  Why mention something like that if she died of a drug overdose?  Makes no sense.

I see  evidence of a head wound look close

[crazybabyborg]

I'm not concerned about them not arresting him now, for some reason. Joran obviously named a "friend" with a boat. I would think they've contacted the friend. Let's say the friend denies it and has an alibi. So that's something that either has to be disproven or a conclusion be reached that Joran was lying, at least about the "friend". They know that Joran will not speak at all in jail if they arrest him, but they've already been given a gift by him after the tapes have been announced. He authenticated them by his own words.

They may well be better off to leave him alone for now and let the public and his tongue work for them. Who knows? Those who were involved in this crime may come forward to nail him just to keep his tongue from wagging, and Joran may hand them something else. The Persistence is also still there, like a guardian of the truth. Lots can still happen and it's more likely to if he's not locked up.

[San]

This P&W interview with does not set right with me.

On the advise of his attorneys and father ... Joran was able to keep keep silent following the November, 2007 detention yet ...

Hey ... Joran even claims he is not angry at Peter Devries or ... the guy who betrayed him.  Joran even claims he was suspicious of the informant yet ... he still spews forth this confession that only implicates him.  Joran seems resigned regarding the Sunday viewing of the tape.  Does not make sense!

The Aruban plan ... Joran reveals a confession only implicating himself and ... then proclaims to the world he lied but ... the world knows that he is a liar so ... the confession that only implicates Joran will be embraced as the truth.
Janet

I will embrace nothing.  The ALE will embrace this as the truth and say the case is solved.

If the case is solved does Beth still get the files.

[cubbeegirl]

I'm not concerned about them not arresting him now, for some reason. Joran obviously named a "friend" with a boat. I would think they've contacted the friend. Let's say the friend denies it and has an alibi. So that's something that either has to be disproven or a conclusion be reached that Joran was lying, at least about the "friend". They know that Joran will not speak at all in jail if they arrest him, but they've already been given a gift by him after the tapes have been announced. He authenticated them by his own words.

They may well be better off to leave him alone for now and let the public and his tongue work for them. Who knows? Those who were involved in this crime may come forward to nail him just to keep his tongue from wagging, and Joran may hand them something else. The Persistence is also still there, like a guardian of the truth. Lots can still happen and it's more likely to if he's not locked up.

Yes, he does seem to have a problem keeping his mouth shut...

[dennisintn]

typical of the sloot family.  granny sloot says jvds is in hiding.  anita says he's not in hiding.  why would anyone expect any different from any of them.
dennisintn

[Helen Back]

This P&W interview with Joran does not set right with me.

On the advise of his attorneys and father ... Joran was able to keep keep silent following the November, 2007 detention yet ...

Hey ... Joran even claims he is not angry at Peter Devries or ... the guy who betrayed him.  Joran even claims he was suspicious of the informant yet ... he still spews forth this confession that only implicates him.  Joran seems resigned regarding the Sunday viewing of the tape.  Does not make sense!

The Aruban plan ... Joran reveals a confession only implicating himself and ... then proclaims to the world he lied but ... the world knows that he is a liar so ... the confession that only implicates Joran will be embraced as the truth.

Janet

In other words ... Joran knew he was being taped and ... the "powers that be" in the investigation knew he was being taped.

IMO

Janet

What's funny is someone forgot to tell Joe Tacopina, as he was on FOX blabbing about how Joran was unaware of the taping.

[truthseeker2]

This P&W interview with does not set right with me.

On the advise of his attorneys and father ... Joran was able to keep keep silent following the November, 2007 detention yet ...

Hey ... Joran even claims he is not angry at Peter Devries or ... the guy who betrayed him.  Joran even claims he was suspicious of the informant yet ... he still spews forth this confession that only implicates him.  Joran seems resigned regarding the Sunday viewing of the tape.  Does not make sense!

The Aruban plan ... Joran reveals a confession only implicating himself and ... then proclaims to the world he lied but ... the world knows that he is a liar so ... the confession that only implicates Joran will be embraced as the truth.

Janet

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads.
One of them needs to be pinched.

http://www.csulb.edu/~karenk/20thcwebsite/438final/ah438fin-Info.00047.html

Context: Dali's stated desire "to systematize confusion and contribute to the total discrediting of the world of reality" made him an instant star among the Surrealists, until he proved to be too surreal even for their tastes

[crazybabyborg]

typical of the sloot family.  granny sloot says jvds is in hiding.  anita says he's not in hiding.  why would anyone expect any different from any of them.
dennisintn

Apparently we could just call and ask him. He loves to talk!

[BTgirl]

Anyone have thoughts on:

(1) how the rock scene enters the picture?

(2) why the landfill was so heavily guarded (through sabotage and work permits) ?

Not sure about the landfill, but I've always thought that Natalee was injured at the rocks and that her blood had to be covered up.

[Port Valerie]

I'm putting some trust in Peter deVries because of his experience as a police investigator. I think he has seen Joran personality types before, at later stages in their criminal careers. He seems to know what will "fascinate" (Joran's own word) Joran -- an older man, who has pushed the barriers of law and order, and who has stories to tell. I think the word "seduce" might even be better. He seduced me, Joran is saying.

This is one weird kid. Writes a book, goes on TV again and again, to talk about a crime he supposedly didn't commit.

Peter deVries knows what makes him tick.

His parents don't know what makes him tick, if they sent him to live with Granny so that she could control him.