Natalee Case Discussion #718 2/01 - 2/02/08

[Observer]

Awemainta Newspaper 2-2-08

[BUCKSHOT]

Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo maintain that Natalee used cocaine that night.
(per FBI reports)

Date-rape drug, sexual assault, disposal of body, obstruction of justice still exist.

Might not be a popular discussion, but does anyone give credibility to the fact that Natalee may have used cocaine that same evening? Just wondering...

Kalpoe brothers. What is their involvement? DeVries tape seems to distance them from Joran. They would not be in the position they are in today, if they were not involved in some way. Did Paulus simply explain to them (if they provided the date-rape drug) that the murder could be pinned on them if their silence was not guaranteed. Since the discovery of the body was unlikely to occur, the circumstances surrounding the evening were cloudy, and inside help was at their disposal, Paulus instructed them to remain silent, helped them create smokescreens, and assured them that all would be well in the end?? Thoughts???

I don't think she ever used cocaine knowingly.

It would be tough, for most, to swallow. However, it would not change the fact that a crime was commited against her, regardless. Just wondering what others thought...

[islanders]

I agree Joran was really dumb to say the tape was authentic. He should have let his fan club, Greta and Joe T, spin this one out of the park.

Too bad Greta, your boy is going to jail!



 

[islanders]

Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo maintain that Natalee used cocaine that night.
(per FBI reports)

Date-rape drug, sexual assault, disposal of body, obstruction of justice still exist.

Might not be a popular discussion, but does anyone give credibility to the fact that Natalee may have used cocaine that same evening? Just wondering...

Kalpoe brothers. What is their involvement? DeVries tape seems to distance them from Joran. They would not be in the position they are in today, if they were not involved in some way. Did Paulus simply explain to them (if they provided the date-rape drug) that the murder could be pinned on them if their silence was not guaranteed. Since the discovery of the body was unlikely to occur, the circumstances surrounding the evening were cloudy, and inside help was at their disposal, Paulus instructed them to remain silent, helped them create smokescreens, and assured them that all would be well in the end?? Thoughts???

I don't think she ever used cocaine knowingly.

It would be tough, for most, to swallow. However, it would not change the fact that a crime was commited against her, regardless. Just wondering what others thought...

Most people take their friends to the emergency room if they have a negative reaction to drugs. Not take them out and dump them in the ocean.

[wreck]

I have NO doubt Joran did in fact murder Natalee that night. BUT, I do believe he was lying to the "mole." I think he "softened" the story considerably. This is going to be tricky because the Prosecution will not be able to corroborate Joran's "version."
What MAY happen is that a chain of dominoes is being set in motion. The "boy" he mentions that assisted him will squeal and that will lead to someone else getting blamed and that person in turn will squeal until the true story comes out. I see this getting worse before it finally plays out. JMO or MOO

[Observer]

I have NO doubt Joran did in fact murder Natalee that night. BUT, I do believe he was lying to the "mole." I think he "softened" the story considerably. This is going to be tricky because the Prosecution will not be able to corroborate Joran's "version."
What MAY happen is that a chain of dominoes is being set in motion. The "boy" he mentions that assisted him will squeal and that will lead to someone else getting blamed and that person in turn will squeal until the true story comes out. I see this getting worse before it finally plays out. JMO or MOO

I agree and I hope you are right. I would imagine there are some nervous people right now in Aruba and Holland. Anita probably has to walk around with a towel all day and night for sweatyrunningman

[islanders]

I have NO doubt Joran did in fact murder Natalee that night. BUT, I do believe he was lying to the "mole." I think he "softened" the story considerably. This is going to be tricky because the Prosecution will not be able to corroborate Joran's "version."
What MAY happen is that a chain of dominoes is being set in motion. The "boy" he mentions that assisted him will squeal and that will lead to someone else getting blamed and that person in turn will squeal until the true story comes out. I see this getting worse before it finally plays out. JMO or MOO

A lot of this has been corroborated. He was the last person to be with her. He said they were on the beach together. The lied to police saying they dropped her off at the hotel.

that's quite a lot of corraboration. JMO

The confession is essential because dumping her out in the deep ocean would explain why there is no body. Also the crime scene was on the beach. All facts right from the horses mouth.

[CapsLockWizard]

It is the Dopple Ganger theory... The one that did it looks like Joran but is not Joran. The same is for the 2 Kalpoes

[wreck]

I have NO doubt Joran did in fact murder Natalee that night. BUT, I do believe he was lying to the "mole." I think he "softened" the story considerably. This is going to be tricky because the Prosecution will not be able to corroborate Joran's "version."
What MAY happen is that a chain of dominoes is being set in motion. The "boy" he mentions that assisted him will squeal and that will lead to someone else getting blamed and that person in turn will squeal until the true story comes out. I see this getting worse before it finally plays out. JMO or MOO

A lot of this has been corroborated. He was the last person to be with her. He said they were on the beach together. The lied to police saying they dropped her off at the hotel.

that's quite a lot of corraboration. JMO

The confession is essential because dumping her out in the deep ocean would explain why there is no body. Also the crime scene was on the beach. All facts right from the horses mouth.

Yes, but I think it is much more complex than killing her at the beach and ONE person helped dumped her at sea. Joran's confession mentions nothing of Paulus's involvement or the very probable fact that she was at the VDS house that night. I will wait for the De Vries show, but something is not quite right!

[sirensong]

[/quote


No Joran, the worst thing is you are still torturing Natalee's mother.

In this video, it shows a picture of a guy in a green t-shirt and then a picture of a yellow and white boat.  Who is  this, any one know?  Sorry if already discussed.

[Magnolia]

Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo maintain that Natalee used cocaine that night.
(per FBI reports)

Date-rape drug, sexual assault, disposal of body, obstruction of justice still exist.

Might not be a popular discussion, but does anyone give credibility to the fact that Natalee may have used cocaine that same evening? Just wondering...

Kalpoe brothers. What is their involvement? DeVries tape seems to distance them from Joran. They would not be in the position they are in today, if they were not involved in some way. Did Paulus simply explain to them (if they provided the date-rape drug) that the murder could be pinned on them if their silence was not guaranteed. Since the discovery of the body was unlikely to occur, the circumstances surrounding the evening were cloudy, and inside help was at their disposal, Paulus instructed them to remain silent, helped them create smokescreens, and assured them that all would be well in the end?? Thoughts???

I don't think she ever used cocaine knowingly.

It would be tough, for most, to swallow. However, it would not change the fact that a crime was commited against her, regardless. Just wondering what others thought...

The reason that I don't think she used cocaine is because powdered cocaine is an
 "upper", or a stimulant.  It doesn't hurt to drink and do coke.  Most people who use coke
do drink along with it, because it causes thirst.  Now liquid cocaine, which can be put
into a drink is a downer.  From all descriptions of Natalee's behavior she was not on
an upper but had been drugged with a downer....liquid coke, XTC or a date rape drug,
that she consumed unknowingly.  The bartenders at C&Cs said that she had to be
practically dragged from the bar because she was so unstedy on her feet.

[wreck]

Someone refresh me about how Koen was brought back in today. It was supposedly about the initials KG. Who said Joran mentioned "KG"???? If Joran did in fact mention Koen in his "confession" -- it is INDEED over!

[Observer]

Translation from telegraaf.nl

Mother: "I can now go mourn"

AMSTERDAM - For Beth Twitty, the mother of Natalee Holloway, is a halt to its knagende uncertainty, which is already nearly three years. This tells the American in an interview with De Telegraaf.
  
Mother Beth had a lot to with Nathalee


After Twitty arrived Thursday in the Netherlands and the secret camera images of Peter R. De Vries got to see her for all the pieces fell into place. "I have no longer dared to hope, but I finally know what happened to Natalee has happened. Al that time there was a very small chance that they would still live. Die one percent of hope that they are still alive, is gone. I am now one hundred percent sure ", tells them very geëmotioneerd. They can now go final, said Twitty.
http://tinyurl.com/2m9ob7
---------------------------------------
Picture of Joran and Article on his interview already posted here.(Telegraaf.nl)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2561.360

[klaasend]

Someone refresh me about how Koen was brought back in today. It was supposedly about the initials KG. Who said Joran mentioned "KG"???? If Joran did in fact mention Koen in his "confession" -- it is INDEED over!

As things were leaking yesterday, it was posted on one of the Dutch sites that the friend that helped him was KG.  I think we're just going to have to wait until Sunday to be sure.

[Magnolia]

I have NO doubt Joran did in fact murder Natalee that night. BUT, I do believe he was lying to the "mole." I think he "softened" the story considerably. This is going to be tricky because the Prosecution will not be able to corroborate Joran's "version."
What MAY happen is that a chain of dominoes is being set in motion. The "boy" he mentions that assisted him will squeal and that will lead to someone else getting blamed and that person in turn will squeal until the true story comes out. I see this getting worse before it finally plays out. JMO or MOO

I can't find that translation of the newspaper article of the judge defending his actions.
But I believe that he said that without a body they could not go to trial unless
Joran confessed.  I could be wrong, but that keeps coming to my mind.

[Anna]

Wreck,  I agree that he told the mole a cleaned up version of events--just in case.  So if he named a person he had just met as his accomplice with a boat, when that person denies this, Joran is supposed to get those free feet again.

Tell a little truth but mix in enough BS that he can't be nailed with it.

His story is not going to be an accurate depiction of what really happened.  He will have changed it just enough to throw off the prosecution.  Or so he thinks.

They hide him out at his 90 yo Granny's house for his own safety and he gets on the phone to national TV? 

.

[texasmom]

Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo maintain that Natalee used cocaine that night.
(per FBI reports)

Date-rape drug, sexual assault, disposal of body, obstruction of justice still exist.

Might not be a popular discussion, but does anyone give credibility to the fact that Natalee may have used cocaine that same evening? Just wondering...

Kalpoe brothers. What is their involvement? DeVries tape seems to distance them from Joran. They would not be in the position they are in today, if they were not involved in some way. Did Paulus simply explain to them (if they provided the date-rape drug) that the murder could be pinned on them if their silence was not guaranteed. Since the discovery of the body was unlikely to occur, the circumstances surrounding the evening were cloudy, and inside help was at their disposal, Paulus instructed them to remain silent, helped them create smokescreens, and assured them that all would be well in the end?? Thoughts???

I don't think she ever used cocaine knowingly.

It would be tough, for most, to swallow. However, it would not change the fact that a crime was commited against her, regardless. Just wondering what others thought...

I was Natalee's age once upon a time.  I don't believe that she was ever a drug abuser and believe that she probably had never used drugs prior to this trip.  It would not change in anyway my feelings about her if it did come out that she had used cocaine while on this trip.  At my 20 year class reunion (almost 6 years ago) my peers deemed me a "square peg" while in school because I was a serious student and most considered me very "straight laced" from my southern Baptist upbringing.  I however did experiment with a few of the more popular drugs of that time, more so after graduation, one being cocaine.  I don't think the possibility that Natalee may have also tried the drug while on the trip of celebration with her peers changes anything about the outstanding young lady she was; and certainly did not entitle anyone to harm her in any way.  I can say from my experience with the drug that I was able to consume more alcohol than normal without feeling the effects that the same amount of alcohol produced normally.  I also believe that if Natalee did experiment with the drug on the trip, she did so because she was comfortable with those she was with, such as fellow classmates doing the same thing.  I however do not think that if drugs contributed to her death, it wasn't any drug that she ingested knowingly.  I firmly believe she was given some type of date rape drug before she ever left C & C's without her knowledge.  JMO

[Helen Back]

It is the Dopple Ganger theory... The one that did it looks like Joran but is not Joran. The same is for the 2 Kalpoes

Hey CapsLock, 

Many of us agree with Wreck that the story we are hearing that Joran told to his "friend" is "softened".  What has gotten Joran so nervous, CapsLock?  Why is Joran ready to cry?

[wreck]

Someone refresh me about how Koen was brought back in today. It was supposedly about the initials KG. Who said Joran mentioned "KG"???? If Joran did in fact mention Koen in his "confession" -- it is INDEED over!

As things were leaking yesterday, it was posted on one of the Dutch sites that the friend that helped him was KG.  I think we're just going to have to wait until Sunday to be sure.

Thanks! If Joran tries to tell us he "just met" Koen ...........................................

[CapsLockWizard]

Someone refresh me about how Koen was brought back in today. It was supposedly about the initials KG. Who said Joran mentioned "KG"???? If Joran did in fact mention Koen in his "confession" -- it is INDEED over!

As things were leaking yesterday, it was posted on one of the Dutch sites that the friend that helped him was KG.  I think we're just going to have to wait until Sunday to be sure.

Klaasend: No words from Dave?

everything is on hold?

Continue on the same work load?

was it a better picture or not from yesterday