Natalee Case Discussion #719 2/02 - 2/03/08

[San]

All that matters is Beth loves him and feels comfortable. I am probably like Robot, I'd like to see him kick some ass:)))))))))

Let's put it this way.  Would you feel more comfortable if Joe Tacopina was the one helping Beth.

[wreck]

It sounds to me like the Sloots have retained Sprong to defend the Sporter'
interest in NL.

And I wonder who would be paying Spong to represent the Sporter.  Surely Paulus doesn't have that kind of money...or does he?

AHATA (they STILL don't "get it" either.

[AZLady]

Here's a babelfish translation of the article in the Dutch news at http://www.ad.nl/

' Joran schepte loudly concerning Natalee '
By EDDY OF OF THE LEY

ARNHEM - Joran of of the ditch lived until recently with three students in a student house to the Loevensteinlaan in Arnhem-Oost.
 
Joran (m) in the arnhemse disco Manhattan, after peter R. freezes its retransmission had announced. PHOTOGRAPH DUTCH PRESS AGENCY
According to its neighbour he conducted products schrikbewind. , if I complained concerning the enormous noise nuisance or declaration did, he threatened me. I have lived wide two years in fear.’’

With gentle voice the neighbour of Joran of two years of ‘misery and nuisance, wide of the ditch, describes.’ She does not dare show the back of its tongue (‘I wait with tension Sunday evening’), but outlines niettemin to a disconcerting picture of its 20 person whose birthday it is neighbour man.

, as from the moment that he is here come live, shortly after the affair in Aruba, lived I on strained foot with Joran and has been house-enjoyed,’’ says them, they caused regularly noise nuisance, by twisting rock-hard music under the influence of drugs and spirits or hard shout. If I said something, threatened to Joran me. I several keren have done declaration at the police force and that was not decreased me in thanks. I all have lived that time in fear.’’

According to the neighbour Joran expressed themselves frequently noisily and unambiguously concerning the operations that he with Natalee Holloway had performed. , he schepte about that against its friends a lot,’’ says them, you must know that the walls have here ears, but also behind the house he pronounced sentence bizarre during parties. A consent? There I not too much concerning, but it can say testified absolutely of disrespect for Natalee. The boys with whom he cohabited, all details have heard several keren. I do not get that they have not been interrogated by the police force.’’

According to the neighbour Joran have no longer lived since a month or two in the row house cultivated to student house. Also initial co-occupiers are have moved. , he has moved after he had briefly been stuck in Aruba. To be parents have clearred its chamber and the spullen picked up. However, he came still frequently stay. It fell me on that all brakes came loose then. He was more than ever a animal. Last week I have seen him for last.’’

That Joran until recently occupant was of the student house, becomes clear, however, from the mail adressed to him and to the recent corveelijst in the kitchen which celebrates contains names: Alex, Chris, mark and Joran.

The neighbour has, however, an idea which the man has been deceived those Joran with a hidden camera. , if I follow it this way, must it what older man to be, a arubaan, who of the one was visitor of the house, fixed on the other day. He was bevriend with Joran and also frequently of the party on the parties.’’ More she does not want say.

That keeps Joran of parties, seems Thursday night confirmed. Whereas the complete Netherlands in the spell was of the arriving revealings of peter R. freezes concerning the holloway matter, danced oud-verdachte the breach in the night in the arnhemse discotheque Manhattan.

Deejay Laurens Trimp and organizer tortures Eshrik pontificaal with him went on the photograph. , Joran had been very relaxed expressed, very. I cannot present itself that he the dader is,’’ says Trimp. The deejay talked vast with Holloway-verdachte. , he comes here more often, therefore we know him also well. Joran did not discuss deep the developments, but gave to itself no care to make.’’ Visitor Jessica (19) spoke Joran short to the bar. , he made a quiet impression.’’

‘Freeze does everything my break life, I do not take him serious. It has been all baked air’, said Joran against Jessica.


How much do you wanna bet that the Aruban older man who befriended Joran is Ramses?  What a coincidence that would be!

[AZLady]

Actually, the article says: Deejay Laurens Trimp and organizer tortures Eshrik pontificaal with him went on the photograph.  So, I think the two men in the photo with Joran are Deejay Laurens Trimp and Eshrik (whoever they are).  It is interesting though that the older man to whom Joran confessed is Aruban.

[Puzzler]

Does anyone remember a long time back that there was a man who came forth saying that he drove to the beach late at night (something about missing his wife, or leaving his wife) and that he heard a woman scream and he saw a tall man carrying something into the ocean?  (Sorry for the overly broad, pieced together thoughts).  But, if I'm remembering correctly, wouldn't that go along with what we're hearing that Joran took Natalee beyond the sandbar.....?

[klaasend]

Hope this story ends up posted somewhere in English - looks interresting:

http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2019129.ece

'Joran schepte luid op over Natalee'
Door EDDY VAN DER LEY

ARNHEM - Joran van der Sloot woonde tot voor kort met drie medestudenten in een studentenhuis aan de Loevensteinlaan in Arnhem-Oost.



Joran (m) in de Arnhemse disco Manhattan, nadat Peter R. de Vries zijn uitzending had aangekondigd. FOTO ANP


 Volgens zijn buurvrouw voerde hij een waar schrikbewind. ,,Als ik klaagde over de enorme geluidsoverlast of aangifte deed, bedreigde hij me. Ik heb ruim twee jaar in angst geleefd.’’

Met zachte stem beschrijft de buurvrouw van Joran van der Sloot ‘ruim twee jaar van ellende en overlast.’ Ze durft niet het achterste van haar tong te laten zien (‘ik wacht met spanning zondagavond af’), maar schetst niettemin een onthutsend beeld van haar 20-jarige buurman.

,,Vanaf het moment dat hij hier is komen wonen, kort na de affaire in Aruba, leefde ik op gespannen voet met Joran en zijn huisgenoten,’’ zegt ze. ,,Ze veroorzaakten regelmatig geluidsoverlast, door onder invloed van drugs en drank keiharde muziek te draaien of hard te schreeuwen. Als ik er iets over zei, bedreigde Joran me. Ik heb diverse keren aangifte gedaan bij de politie en dat werd me niet in dank afgenomen. Ik heb al die tijd in angst geleefd.’’

Volgens de buurvrouw liet Joran zich vaak luidruchtig én ondubbelzinnig uit over de handelingen die hij met Natalee Holloway had verricht. ,,Hij schepte daar tegen zijn vrienden erg over op,’’ zegt ze. ,,Je moet weten dat de muren hier oren hebben, maar ook achter het huis deed hij tijdens feestjes bizarre uitspraken. Een bekentenis? Daar kan ik niet te veel over zeggen, maar het getuigde absoluut van disrespect voor Natalee. De jongens met wie hij samenwoonde, hebben alle details verschillende keren gehoord. Ik snap niet dat zij niet door de politie zijn verhoord.’’

Volgens de buurvrouw woont Joran sinds een maand of twee niet meer in de tot studentenhuis verbouwde rijtjeswoning. Ook zijn aanvankelijke medebewoners zijn verhuisd. ,,Hij is verhuisd nadat hij in Aruba kort had vastgezeten. Zijn ouders hebben zijn kamer leeggeruimd en de spullen opgehaald. Wel kwam hij nog vaak logeren. Het viel me op dat alle remmen dan losgingen. Hij was meer dan ooit een feestbeest. Vorige week heb ik hem voor het laatst gezien.’’

Dat Joran tot voor kort bewoner was van het studentenhuis, blijkt wel uit de aan hem geadresseerde post én aan de recente corveelijst in de keuken die vier namen bevat: Alex, Chris, Mark én Joran.

De buurvrouw heeft wel een idee wie de man is die Joran er met een verborgen camera zou hebben ingeluisd. ,,Als ik het zo volg, moet het een wat oudere man zijn, een Arubaan, die van de ene op de andere dag een vaste bezoeker van het huis was. Hij was bevriend met Joran en ook vaak van de partij op de feestjes.’’ Meer wil ze niet zeggen.

Dat Joran van feestjes houdt, lijkt donderdagnacht bevestigd. Terwijl heel Nederland in de ban was van de aankomende onthullingen van Peter R. de Vries over de Holloway-zaak, danste de oud-verdachte een gat in de nacht in de Arnhemse discotheek Manhattan.

Deejay Laurens Trimp en feestorganisator Eshrik Martel gingen pontificaal met hem op de foto. ,,Joran was heel relaxed, heel uitgelaten. Ik kan me niet voorstellen dat hij de dader is,’’ zegt Trimp. De deejay praatte uitgebreid met de Holloway-verdachte. ,,Hij komt hier vaker, dus we kennen hem ook goed. Joran ging niet diep in op de ontwikkelingen, maar gaf wel aan zich geen zorgen te maken.’’ Bezoekster Jessica (19) sprak Joran kort aan de bar. ,,Hij maakte een rustige indruk.’’

‘De Vries doet alles om mijn leven kapot te maken, hem neem ik niet serieus. Het is allemaal gebakken lucht’, zei Joran tegen Jessica.


Through translator:

' Joran schepte loudly concerning Natalee '

 EDDY OF OF THE LEY ARNHEM - Joran of of the ditch lived until recently with three students in a student house to the Loevensteinlaan in Arnhem-Oost.

According to its neighbour he conducted products schrikbewind. , if I complained concerning the enormous noise nuisance or declaration did, he threatened me. I have lived wide two years in fear.' ' With gentle voice the neighbour of Joran of two years of misery and nuisance, wide of the ditch `, describes. She does not dare show the back of its tongue (`ik wait with tension Sunday evening), but outlines niettemin to a disconcerting picture of its 20 person whose birthday it is neighbour man. , as from the moment that he is here come live, shortly after the affair in Aruba, lived I on strained foot with Joran and has been house-enjoyed, ' ' them say, they caused regularly noise nuisance, by twisting rock-hard music under the influence of drugs and spirits or hard shout. If I said something, threatened to Joran me. I several keren have done declaration at the police force and that was not decreased me in thanks. I all have lived that time in fear.' '

According to the neighbour Joran expressed themselves frequently noisily and unambiguously concerning the operations that he with Natalee Holloway had performed. , he schepte about that against its friends a lot, ' ' says them, you must know that the walls have here ears, but also behind the house he pronounced sentence bizarre during parties. A consent? There I not too much concerning, but it can say testified absolutely of disrespect for Natalee. The boys with whom he cohabited, all details have heard several keren. I do not get that they have not been interrogated by the police force.' ' According to the neighbour Joran have no longer lived since a month or two in the row house cultivated to student house. Also initial co-occupiers are have moved. , he has moved after he had briefly been stuck in Aruba. To be parents have clearred its chamber and the spullen picked up. However, he came still frequently stay. It fell me on that all brakes came loose then. He was more than ever a animal. Last week I have seen him for last.' ' That Joran until recently occupant was of the student house, becomes clear, however, from the mail adressed to him and to the recent corveelijst in the kitchen which celebrates contains names: Alex, Chris, mark and Joran.

The neighbour has, however, an idea which the man has been deceived those Joran with a hidden camera. , if I follow it this way, must it what older man to be, a arubaan, who of the one was visitor of the house, fixed on the other day. He was bevriend with Joran and also frequently of the party on the parties.' ' More she does not want say. That keeps Joran of parties, seems Thursday night confirmed. Whereas the complete Netherlands in the spell was of the revealings arriving of peter R. freezes concerning the holloway matter, danced oud-verdachte the breach in the night in the arnhemse discotheque Manhattan. Deejay Laurens Trimp and organizer tortures Eshrik pontificaal with him went on the photograph. , Joran had been very relaxed expressed, very. I cannot present itself that he is the dader, ' ' says Trimp. The deejay talked vast with Holloway-verdachte. , he comes here more often, therefore we know him also well. Joran did not discuss deep the developments, but gave to itself no care to make.' ' Visitor Jessica (19) spoke Joran short to the bar. , he made a quiet impression.' ' ` freeze does everything my break life, I do not take him serious. It has been all baked air, said Joran against Jessica.

[klaasend]

Does anyone remember a long time back that there was a man who came forth saying that he drove to the beach late at night (something about missing his wife, or leaving his wife) and that he heard a woman scream and he saw a tall man carrying something into the ocean?  (Sorry for the overly broad, pieced together thoughts).  But, if I'm remembering correctly, wouldn't that go along with what we're hearing that Joran took Natalee beyond the sandbar.....?

I believe that was Carlos the "frozen condom" witness that ALE claims later retracted his story.

[cubbeegirl]

Does anyone remember a long time back that there was a man who came forth saying that he drove to the beach late at night (something about missing his wife, or leaving his wife) and that he heard a woman scream and he saw a tall man carrying something into the ocean?  (Sorry for the overly broad, pieced together thoughts).  But, if I'm remembering correctly, wouldn't that go along with what we're hearing that Joran took Natalee beyond the sandbar.....?

I believe that was Carlos the "frozen condom" witness that ALE claims later retracted his story.






There have been so many retracted stories it is hard to keep up with,isn't it?

[Anna]

Good Afternoon, Monkeys,

Brought this over from the last thread where I am reading and trying to catch up:

Tamikasmom wrote:

This P&W interview with does not set right with me.

On the advise of his attorneys and father ... Joran was able to keep keep silent following the November, 2007 detention yet ...

Hey ... Joran even claims he is not angry at Peter Devries or ... the guy who betrayed him.  Joran even claims he was suspicious of the informant yet ... he still spews forth this confession that only implicates him.  Joran seems resigned regarding the Sunday viewing of the tape.  Does not make sense!

The Aruban plan ... Joran reveals a confession only implicating himself and ... then proclaims to the world he lied but ... the world knows that he is a liar so ... the confession that only implicates Joran will be embraced as the truth.

Janet
-------------

Some variation of this is what I fear.  Joran is cunning enough to plant a fake confidante by telling this person what Joran wants him to think instead of the truth.  He did that with Freddie the first day, told him HI story and didn't tell the beach story so-called "truth" until later.  I don't think either story Joran told Freddie is the truth.

And I don't think what he told this plant is the truth but is rather a very cleaned up version of events to exonerate Joran from the killing of Natalee.

This is what I fear but I will listen to the tape before passing any firm judgment.

[AZLady]

That's a cleaner translation, Klaas.  Thanks.  What strikes me is that Joran has been telling his roommates and his party friends, very loudly, what he did to Natalee.  And, the neighbors have heard this, more than once.  Am I reading this clearly?  If so, I think there will be multiple people who can corroborate the statements on the hidden camera.  If Joran has repeatedly bragged of his exploits in murdering Natalee, there will be many witnesses, not just one and multiple occasions, not just one. 

However, it is interesting to see the neighbor says it is an Arubaan man who came to the parties and probably had the hidden camera.

[JA]

Keep pushing Peter Devries!  You know how to push Joran's buttons.  The more he talks the more he'll hang himself.  In jail, Papa is there to remind him to keep his trap shut, or at least to remind him that once interrogated not to say anyhting.  Among peers friends and booze he gets confident and cocky.

[martini]

Come clean, Deepak. Be Aruba's hero here.

This is a great opportunity for Deepak to tell the truth.
Can you imagine the American Networks trying to get him on their show?
He can be a rich man able to live anywhere in the world $$$$$$$$$$$$$

[klaasend]

That's a cleaner translation, Klaas.  Thanks.  What strikes me is that Joran has been telling his roommates and his party friends, very loudly, what he did to Natalee.  And, the neighbors have heard this, more than once.  Am I reading this clearly?  If so, I think there will be multiple people who can corroborate the statements on the hidden camera.  If Joran has repeatedly bragged of his exploits in murdering Natalee, there will be many witnesses, not just one and multiple occasions, not just one. 

However, it is interesting to see the neighbor says it is an Arubaan man who came to the parties and probably had the hidden camera.

I'm not sure we can trust what this girl (neighbor) is saying with an online translator.  The way I was reading it Joran and his roommates often made fun of Natalee and disrespected her.

[Magnolia]

Since he has admitted to Natalee's death and disposing of her
body, could our FBI go and arrest him for harming an American
citizen?

[truthseeker2]

Actually, the article says: Deejay Laurens Trimp and organizer tortures Eshrik pontificaal with him went on the photograph.  So, I think the two men in the photo with Joran are Deejay Laurens Trimp and Eshrik (whoever they are).  It is interesting though that the older man to whom Joran confessed is Aruban.

Could this be Eshrik?

http://www.thorgolucky.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=192&sid=4c35e26a6c44aaea01dbe8f1dcebaf38

[AZLady]

That's a cleaner translation, Klaas.  Thanks.  What strikes me is that Joran has been telling his roommates and his party friends, very loudly, what he did to Natalee.  And, the neighbors have heard this, more than once.  Am I reading this clearly?  If so, I think there will be multiple people who can corroborate the statements on the hidden camera.  If Joran has repeatedly bragged of his exploits in murdering Natalee, there will be many witnesses, not just one and multiple occasions, not just one. 

However, it is interesting to see the neighbor says it is an Arubaan man who came to the parties and probably had the hidden camera.

I'm not sure we can trust what this girl (neighbor) is saying with an online translator.  The way I was reading it Joran and his roommates often made fun of Natalee and disrespected her.

I understand. But, the neighbor also wonders why the police have not questioned Joran's roommates. The boys with whom he cohabited, all details have heard several keren. I do not get that they have not been interrogated by the police force.'   She apparently heard the boys talking about something the police should have interrogated them about, according to her. 

[Anna]

I agree, Klaas,

I think he just makes fun of Natalee and makes statements about how it was all her own fault, etc. at his drunken parties.  He would never admit doing anything wrong.  It's always somebody else's fault.

.

[mrs. red]

I have to confess I am worried that they are going to let him go.... and I am wondering how the K2 fit into this now.... let's face it y'all... we all know they raped her. Regardless of how they spun the Skeeter's tape, I did hear the "undoctored original" and Deepak does, IN FACT, state that they all had sex with her and how easy it was that night....

You can most definately bet they are involved....

[cubbeegirl]

Klaas, I have left a message for you in monkey musings, I would appreciate your help!!!
TYIA

[Anna]

I think the ALE would have to ask the Dutch to interrogate the roommates and the reason they did not do this is because they were not conducting a real investigation, just damage control. 

Don't ask anybody anything that might build a case for same reason they did not arrest for two weeks or collect forensics.

.