Natalee Case Discussion #719 2/02 - 2/03/08

[Port Valerie]

Maybe JQK will quit showing up on Greta's show after that email she published. Maybe he will follow Peter deV around and do the networks and Oprah. That will leave Greta with Taco and the sporter. Maybe the sporter will care to explain himself yet again to Greta. Or maybe Anita will use Greta to set us straight. Either way, Greta is left with the rotten apples, not the good ones.

[Tamikosmom]

Check what Greta has posted on her FP now

Unbelievable

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/02/02/strange-huh/

My comment to Greta:

Unbelieveable!  Despicable!

I am so proud of all the Monkeys who posted at Greta's blog and ... upheld the family of Natalee Holloway.

Janet

[Bearlyhere]

If we just go by what we know, and use what our gut tells us, I think we'd all agree

1. Natalee had been drinking
2. Natalee was not drunk on her butt, as evidenced by what the MB kids said and the pictures from C&Cs.
3. The guys who had plans for her, either drugged her last drink, or had the bartender do it.
4. It's entirely possible that too much was put in her drink, or that Natalie had a reaction to a drug she had never had before and she became gravely ill as a result.

Beyond that, we can all see a situation where Joran could have hit or brutalized her, but I do not think that was the plan when he took her from C&Cs.

5. Natalee's body would have revealed a head injury.

That injury could have been the cause of death or contributed to it, or it could have occurred after her death, from being stuffed in a trap, or in other ways to weight her body down, or carry a semi conscience Natalee. I have not toally discounted that she died at the Sloots and there is a wall there.

MOO

Or her drink was drugged by more than one person.

[Port Valerie]

Unbelieveable!  Despicable!

I am so proud of all the Monkeys who posted at Greta's blog and ... upheld the family of Natalee Holloway.

Janet

I put two comments there but not under this name. Unbelievable.

[Hotshot]

Ahhhh, OK.  got the JAVA to work finally, and WOW, Tacopenis did have a melt down didn't he?      I think he may have even sunk Joran a little deeper.

Keep up the good work TACO!!!!

[robots]

George Castanza just posted on GRETAHAGWIRE

 

[Bearlyhere]

If the explanation is as simple as Islanders and I am not disputing as I don't know, but then why all the cover-up from Paulus, who was involved right away?  Would he not have known it legally that this was a prudent way in which to handle this? 

Then my next reason to think it was somewhat more complicated involves the conversation in the back of the police car about "all that shit," "You are going to get 15 years," "How is the girl?"

And first and foremost, the very first week after Natalee disappeared, the three amigoes were bragging that they "all had sex with Natalee" which was even published in one of the Caribbean newspapers and this might have been at about the point MJ and AJ were arrested, or even before.

I think after he assumed she was dead, he panicked and did something to her immediately on his own (going by his history of being impulsive).  After that I think he started to involve others to clean up after him as he usually does.

[Tamikosmom]

Update on Dr. Hodges blog:

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/default.aspx?200822-1

"Joran also reportedly said that Natalee had used drugs that night and implied the cardiac arrest occurred due to the drugs. At that point, he swims the body out into the ocean at a particular place and releases her, knowing that she will either wash up or be taken out to sea and be devoured by various predators."

____________


CARLOS - THE COLUMBIAN

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13595183/

Julia Renfro
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
June 27, 2006

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: We still haven‘t heard a final answer on whether this Colombian witness is really credible or not. We still haven‘t heard from the judge. So, it‘s difficult. But there‘s still some things to come.
(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: And tonight, a secret in the Natalee Holloway case has been exposed. There has been a new arrest, one that‘s very much been kept under wraps. Aruban police have nabbed a Colombian national to find out what he may have seen the night the Alabama teen vanished. And if you can believe it, he‘s been behind bars since last month.

So, just who is this person and how did it all go down? On the phone with us right now from Aruba is Julia Renfro with the “Aruba Today” newspaper. Julia, who is this guy?

JULIA RENFRO, ARUBA TODAY (on phone): Hi, Rita. Well, the only thing we know at this point is his name is Carlos and he‘s from Columbia and he has pertinent information claiming to have witnessed a possible murder. He‘s not very specific in that it was Natalee, but it was the night that Natalee disappeared. He claims to have heard screaming, he claims to have heard somebody being dragged out in the ocean and being held under water.

COSBY: And where exactly does he say that he heard the screaming and saw someone being dragged? And did he describe somebody blond like Natalee? And someone looking like Joran or the Kalpoe brothers?

RENFRO: He claims to have seen a small young lady with a talk young man. He was not able to clarify whether or not the type of vehicle. You have to imagine up by the lighthouse, it‘s extremely dark. And apparently, he had a fight or some kind of controversy with his wife and had driven up there to just relax and watch the ocean and watch the waves. And he was woken up by screaming, as he says. And he started peeking around the rocks and that‘s when he claims he saw.

COSBY: And why did police decide to arrest him now a year later? How did word get out of what this guy is claiming?

RENFRO: Well, he came forward several months ago actually, already. Excuse me. He spoke to members of the media, who brought him to the authorities, basically pushing him to the direction that it‘s his responsibility to tell what he saw.

COSBY: And Julia, are authorities taking him seriously? Credible? Or are they saying, wait a minute, this seems a little too wacky to believe.

RENFRO: Well, you have to understand that the authorities are not speaking with anybody at this point. The prosecutor‘s office is not speaking to the press or anybody else. And they are basically just making a strong dedication and commitment to the case to solve it.

COSBY: How long can they hold this guy?

RENFRO: And they‘re not interested in you, they‘re not interested in me.

COSBY: How long can they hold him, Julia? What‘s the law, how long can they keep him?

RENFRO: Well that‘s up to the judge. And it works out to be 180 days. I doubt that will happen. What they‘re doing at this point, they are searching and they‘re investigating the points and details that this man has brought forward. And if any of the details that he‘s brought forward are brought forward to be credible, of course, he will be continued to be detained. And it‘s not because he‘s a suspect. It‘s because unfortunately, he‘s an illegal alien. He‘s living on the island of Aruba without permission. And just like in the United States, which you guys very well know, you can‘t just go and live on somebody else‘s country.


++++++++++++

Art Wood
DANA PRETZER
July 3, 2005

Art: First of all Carlos is a columbian, he's a male about 40, maybe 40 to 45 years old and at one time he had a work permit to work in Aruba but that expired and he didn't get it extended. At the time this happened he was an illegal. Basically, Carlos contacted Jossy through an intermediary and he was trying to claim the reward. Jossy told Dave and Beth about Carlos and contacted me and basically after consulting with Dave and Beth it was decided that I would talk to Carlos and see if there was any validity I flew down there in April and interviewed Carlos and actually on two occasions. Basically I didn't believe his story at all, I told Jossy there were too many holes in his story. I thought it was 1005 bogus, he was just trying to claim the reward.
Before leaving Aruba, I told Carlos that I would turn the info over the ALE, which I did, I made sure that Karin got that information and let them determine if there was validity to is. I advised Dave and Beth I found it not true, I left Aruba and the authorities picked him up and believed his story for awhile, they held him in protective custody for 6 weeks and now he's recanted his story.

Dana: We as LE or members of the media or people who talk to people for a living. YOu can see contradictions, physical actions, body language, different things that you can soon tell when you interview a witness whether they're a glory grabber or they actually have something

Art;  LE officers involved in criminal investigations develop not just an instinct, they develop a whole personna to tell if someobdy is lying or not. It comes with experiences but it comes with 100's of interrogations you're involved with. This guy's story didn't make any sense to me at all. I was using an interpreter but I could tell he was lying, I knew that he was. As a police officer instinctively you just know when they're lying.

I've told Dave, I'm 100% sure he was lying and turns out he was.

+++++++++++++

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12954091/

Dave Holloway
ita Cosby Live & Direct'
May 23, 2006

HOLLOWAY: ... There is a—a witness out there that—that had contacted us that indicated that he saw something, and had some forensic evidence. And I don‘t know whether they‘re working on that or—or what the deal is. Someone said that he was arrested and is currently being detained.
 
LAKE: Is that witness‘ name Carlos (ph)?

HOLLOWAY: The individual that we were aware of, yes, was named Carlos (ph).

LAKE: OK. And have you heard anything further on that? Are they digging into that?
 
HOLLOWAY: Last week, this individual came forward and indicated he had this—he witnessed something and he had some forensic evidence. And we asked him to go directly to the prosecutor and provide that information. 
LAKE: OK. So, Dave, are you feeling optimistic that there will be more arrests, arrests that can stick, that can turn into a case? How are you feeling now?

HOLLOWAY: You know, I don‘t know, Lauren. It‘s—you hear about
this arrest. You get your hopes up high. And then all of a sudden, you hear that he‘s being released And you just hope and pray in the back of your mind that maybe this guy gave them enough information that more arrests are imminent. You know, you just don‘t know. And you just get your hopes up high, and then they‘re just dashed again.

[Scandi]

My earnest prayers for the success of the Persistence Mission! I do hope that something in the latest events can help them! God Bless them for their efforts! There is new hope/belief that she was indeed placed in the water. If so, they are looking in the right place.

Because the beauty of your avatars is only surpassed by the beauty in your posts, I am going to tag along with your post.  My prayers are also with them and I ask God to guide them to the place they need to be at the time that will help the most.  I know things are in God's time and not mine  But I also know God made me human and understands my impatience.

Totally agree, could not have said it nearly so eloquently.

I triple agree Tylergal.  HEAR HEAR for all those aboard the RV Persistence and to our very own CrazyBabyBorg who inspires us all.  YaYa

[Tylergal]

Greta is a schadenfreude and Jossy is a mensch.

[Observer]

Greta is absolutely getting hammered at her site..Tommorows a huge day monkeys! I hope everyone dreams big! Go Patriots and Peter De Vries!!
-----------------------------------------
Comment by WCH
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:32 am
JVS: “I didn’t have sex with her”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

JVS: “It was she who wanted to go out with me”

“I’m a Scientologist.” Greta Van Susteren

JVS: “I had school in a few hours so I left her on the beach”

“That’s what L. Ron Hubbard said.” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I didn’t have a condom, so I didn’t have sex with her”

“Strange, huh? That I’ve had more plastic surgery than that model in Brazil.” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I left my shoes on the beach”

“Did you know that I’m a Scientologist?” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I wouldn’t believe myself”

“I’m a Scientologist. Like Tom Cruise says, “Let’s crush these guys.” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I left her at the hotel”

“What would a Scientologist say to that? Oh yeah, I’m a Scientologist. I’m inclined to believe him.” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I walked home”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “Deepak picked me up”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “If my mother was home, this wouldn’t have happened”

“That’s what L. Ron Hubbard said.” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I had sex with her but it was consensual”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “She called her mother Hitler”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I wanted to carry her down the beach to the hotel, but she refused”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I would laugh” (re. If they find Natalee alive)

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “we went to my house but she stayed in the car”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “Lying is easy for me”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

“he’s a sweet kid” Joe Tacopina

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

“Everywhere we go in Aruba people come up and hug Joran” Joe Tacopina

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “when they showed me a picture of her I didn’t know who Natalee Holloway was”

“I’m inclined to believe him”Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “someday I’ll tell what happened”

“I’m inclined to believe him”Greta Van Susteren

[Tamikosmom]

It sure has been a busy day in the cage today.  I have been scanning the posts but ... my eyes will not stay open any longer.  Would somebody please post the time of the Peter Devries show tomorrow.

Thank you.

Janet
10:45 PM

[Observer]

It sure has been a busy day in the cage today.  I have been scanning the posts but ... my eyes will not stay open any longer.  Would somebody please post the time of the Peter Devries show tomorrow.

Thank you.

Janet
10:45 PM

It starts at 12:30PM PST-3:30PM EST-9:30PM in Holland
It is a 2 hour show,so we should be on the lookout for a youtube or a transcript after it is over.

[hotping]

It sure has been a busy day in the cage today.  I have been scanning the posts but ... my eyes will not stay open any longer.  Would somebody please post the time of the Peter Devries show tomorrow.

Thank you.

Janet
10:45 PM

It starts at 12:30PM PST-3:30PM EST-9:30PM in Holland
It is a 2 hour show,so we should be on the lookout for a youtube after it is over.

Thank You *******!   

[Anna]

Am I the only one who recalls Glenda the Witch describing the handling of a recently deceased body by Joran (or anyone) being so horrendous and what it was like.  The description was very blood-curdling when she was discussing it and she was, in her way, telling more than I think she wanted to.

Me! Me!  I remember that well...not that it's a good thing.

Tyler, I remember that as well.  She said something about how traumatized the boys would be from handling cold dead flesh or something like that. 

Was one of the creepiest things I have read about this tragedy and sounded very involved, IMO.  Of course, we may find out tomorrow that it was pretty much Joran acting alone or with this boat person.

I have said several times my list of suspects kept shrinking over time as no one came forward or could be proved to be connected.

[hotping]

Greta is absolutely getting hammered at her site..Tommorows a huge day monkeys! I hope everyone dreams big! Go Patriots and Peter De Vries!!
-----------------------------------------
Comment by WCH
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:32 am
JVS: “I didn’t have sex with her”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

JVS: “It was she who wanted to go out with me”

“I’m a Scientologist.” Greta Van Susteren

JVS: “I had school in a few hours so I left her on the beach”

“That’s what L. Ron Hubbard said.” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I didn’t have a condom, so I didn’t have sex with her”

“Strange, huh? That I’ve had more plastic surgery than that model in Brazil.” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I left my shoes on the beach”

“Did you know that I’m a Scientologist?” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I wouldn’t believe myself”

“I’m a Scientologist. Like Tom Cruise says, “Let’s crush these guys.” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I left her at the hotel”

“What would a Scientologist say to that? Oh yeah, I’m a Scientologist. I’m inclined to believe him.” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I walked home”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “Deepak picked me up”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “If my mother was home, this wouldn’t have happened”

“That’s what L. Ron Hubbard said.” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I had sex with her but it was consensual”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “She called her mother Hitler”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I wanted to carry her down the beach to the hotel, but she refused”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “I would laugh” (re. If they find Natalee alive)

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “we went to my house but she stayed in the car”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “Lying is easy for me”

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

“he’s a sweet kid” Joe Tacopina

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

“Everywhere we go in Aruba people come up and hug Joran” Joe Tacopina

“I’m inclined to believe him” Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “when they showed me a picture of her I didn’t know who Natalee Holloway was”

“I’m inclined to believe him”Greta Van Susteren

Joran: “someday I’ll tell what happened”

“I’m inclined to believe him”Greta Van Susteren

[NCDan]

Unbelieveable!  Despicable!

I am so proud of all the Monkeys who posted at Greta's blog and ... upheld the family of Natalee Holloway.

Janet

I put two comments there but not under this name. Unbelievable.

No such luck for me. I tried to make my posts with the sc***tology references three times. The third time, I received a response that says "It appears you have already said that before", which is true but they did not accept the posts. I feel is unusual since other posters there are able to make repetitive posts. Could it be because my post links to other blogs such as earlier SM posts?

[Tamikosmom]

It sure has been a busy day in the cage today.  I have been scanning the posts but ... my eyes will not stay open any longer.  Would somebody please post the time of the Peter Devries show tomorrow.

Thank you.

Janet
10:45 PM

It starts at 12:30PM PST-3:30PM EST-9:30PM in Holland
It is a 2 hour show,so we should be on the lookout for a youtube or a transcript after it is over.

Thank you *******.

Good Night Monkeys

Janet
10:55 PM

[Tylergal]

Unbelieveable!  Despicable!

I am so proud of all the Monkeys who posted at Greta's blog and ... upheld the family of Natalee Holloway.

Janet

I put two comments there but not under this name. Unbelievable.

No such luck for me. I tried to make my posts with the sc***tology references three times. The third time, I received a response that says "It appears you have already said that before", which is true but they did not accept the posts. I feel is unusual since other posters there are able to make repetitive posts. Could it be because my post links to other blogs such as earlier SM posts?

Before posting anything anti-CoS on the internet, you might want to read here first.
http://www.xenu.net/archive/personal_story/paulette_cooper/

[crazybabyborg]

Did you all hear the "horse head in the bed" comment on Kimberly's show just now? She returned to the Natalee story just before signing off and one of her panel said that if Joran didn't shut-up, someone was liable to send him a message!