Natalee Case Discussion #719 2/02 - 2/03/08

[Bearlyhere]

Steve Croes and the boat fits what we have heard before. He gave the false alibi and said "it was to someone he did not know and had never met". He reportedly told his grandmother he was on the beach that night and observed a fight between three boys and a girl. he was fired from his job watching the tatoo that night for leaving the boat moored off of marriot Beach. We will have to wait and see if he is the one mentioned by Joran.

The connection to Steve Croes runs trough Deepak. It could be Deepak contacted Croes and had him move the boat to a waiting Joran who swam the body out to the boat.

Calls or text messages to Deepak about who could do the deed...Joran texts that he's home after the deed is done.  Paulus paid the money...the money...the money that Paulus had to replace the next day...in case any one wanted to know about the late night withdrawal.  Steve Croes doesn't seem like the person that would keep this to himself without a substantial gain in a monetary way...Kalpoes got the Internet Cafe...Steve got the money and the new job. MOO

Moo right back at you.  Why didn't they think to check the ATM for sweat?

[Tylergal]

the music man's song was not on the bill...

Steve Croes was not suppose to say anything about an alibi...he was to keep his mouth shut...Paulus paid him from the ATM that night...but he started singing about the alibi because he knew the truth about what happened.  Freddy knew because Joran told him he and Steve got rid of the body....swim out to the Tattoo and then take the dingy out farther with the body.  Follow the money....it leads to the person that helped Joran. MOO

I think you could be right....everyone that has made fun of me for 2 years now can send their apologies to my email addy.  I knew there was something to all this cloak and dagger stuff...I just knew it....oops sorry...I got a little carried away.  MOO

So is Freddy the 'other singing card'?...the one that wasn't played....

Well, I was not going to say anything about Freddy but the post that Elaine made last night reminds me that the date approximates the time when some on the front page were calling on Freddy to spill the beans and clear his conscience...

[San]

I put together a new Joran Liar video last night for Youtube.  Red will be posting on the front page of SM some time today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUZRVV1klek

Everyone ignores me, lol    I think you'll like the end of this video.

I never ignore you klaas I missed the first link when you posted it.  Great job as usual.

[crazybabyborg]

I'm all caught up now, and I have to go throw a roast in a crockpot. Would you all mind just not posting until I get back?

[Buckeye]

posted by Lazlo, last night on RU.  IMO, Lazlo has been pretty accurate with info.

        

Daniel wrote:

My hunch is that tomorrow's show won't prove (to a legal standard) that Joran is guilty

Lazlo  PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:56 pm

I agree.
Unless de Vries taped the boat guy with hidden camera telling a similar version of events, or something else that substantiates a contact between Joran and boat guy that night.

[MumInOhio]

the music man's song was not on the bill...

Steve Croes was not suppose to say anything about an alibi...he was to keep his mouth shut...Paulus paid him from the ATM that night...but he started singing about the alibi because he knew the truth about what happened.  Freddy knew because Joran told him he and Steve got rid of the body....swim out to the Tattoo and then take the dingy out farther with the body.  Follow the money....it leads to the person that helped Joran. MOO

I think you could be right....everyone that has made fun of me for 2 years now can send their apologies to my email addy.  I knew there was something to all this cloak and dagger stuff...I just knew it....oops sorry...I got a little carried away.  MOO

So is Freddy the 'other singing card'?...the one that wasn't played....

Well, I was not going to say anything about Freddy but the post that Elaine made last night reminds me that the date approximates the time when some on the front page were calling on Freddy to spill the beans and clear his conscience...

 


Where is Freddy?              

[Tylergal]

Steve Croes and the boat fits what we have heard before. He gave the false alibi and said "it was to someone he did not know and had never met". He reportedly told his grandmother he was on the beach that night and observed a fight between three boys and a girl. he was fired from his job watching the tatoo that night for leaving the boat moored off of marriot Beach. We will have to wait and see if he is the one mentioned by Joran.

Did he not say this after the woman who worked at the hotel reported witnessing this with the screaming girl being placed in the white truck, and did it not turn out that the woman who reported this was the mother of Steve Croes' children, a hotel employee?  Someone correct me if I am wrong but that is what I recall as being reported on an Aruban radio station.

[San]

who is chugging more alcohol right now

1. joran
2. anita
3. paulus
4. joe t.


I would have to say the DELICIOUS SPORTER is drinking it by the YARD

anita is second

joe t is third

and paulus is out looking for more young women to rape and kill


PAULUS IS the ONE......the mastermind behind the whole nightmare

where is he ??

Robots.... we have been on the same page for years

mmmmmm good !!!!
yep - he is the one
and i always knew it

PURE EVIL

Daddy picks em, Joran reels em in.

I want to see is a different angle of the casino video

There is way more to this than Sportster claims in his "confession"

sacrificial lamb... keep the higher ups out of it

Can't wait for tonight

I agree.

Mark Fuhrman said for someone to come forward and confess to a crime he is either protecting a suspect or a family member.  This is all leaning towards Paulus.

[Lala'sMom]

Freddy needs to tell the truth....he can't he is in other nefarious things too deep.  Arrest Freddy and tell him to keep quiet.  If not, then he's going down for the under age girl in the porn video.  Keep quiet and all will go away...if we can get Joran to stop talking...damn that boy! MOO

[Blonde]

I am going from memory here, but isn't the Tattoo moored and a smaller boat is used to take partiers to it. ? After Steve inserted himself into this by providing the false alibi, didn't the ALE look at the smaller boat ?
If the Radar showed the smaller boat coming and going, as long as it didn't go out too far, nothing would seem unusual.
Didn't I see a mapping of sorts of how deep the water got right east of the sandbar ?
..
I need to see sweaty running man go down for this too. We all know he is in it right to his neck.
..
Who was Steve's alibi for the Sunday late evening into Monday ?
 

Speaking of Steve. I haven't got any idea why Marcus Williams would have vouched for Steve's alibi if it were not true or how he was positive.

That leaves me to wonder who had the phone. And why. And why Joran would call this person up there.

Steve Croes cannot be in two places at once but his phone can be somewhere he isn't. I'm sure of the id because of an early news report identifying him living up there at Sta Lucia next door to his uncle Rufo.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/missing.teen/

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Who+was+Steve%27s+Croes++alibi+on+the+natalee+holloway+case&y=Search&fr=ybr_sbc&u=www.refugeesunleashed.net/archive/b/carnivorous_conservative/2005/10/natalee_hollowa_55.html&w=steve%27s+croes+alibi+alibis+natalee+holloway+case&d=DgHLU3DuQIB1&icp=1&.intl=us

[Tylergal]

"Tail Wagging the Dog"

The prosecutor is waiting until the D'Vries video airs before he makes a decision to seek the arrest of Joran. This is absurd.

I agree...I have been saying that for 2 days now.

I could be completely wrong on this but there may not be an arrest. From what I have read about Aruban and Dutch law from Ramm and a few others a confession will not stand up in court unless there is other evidence to support it. I hope I have misunderstood all this.

If I recall Beth and Jug, and maybe even Dave, stated they did not care about legal justice, they  just wanted to know what happened to Natalee.  I think for them that is a small increment in their healing process and if this video brings that about then I agree with them, that justice is secondary; knowing the truth is primary and even though they may not have the details of what Natalee experienced, they know that ultimately she died at the hands of Joran vanderSloot.

One thing we do know Jorans life as he knew it is gone. JMHO

[Spock]

Are the pop ups set to aggresive today? I have fought off ten in the last 15 minutes?

[MumInOhio]

Lala's...  he was there the 'whole time'...security tapes said Croes was there

the 'party-go-ers'...party boat - the Tattoo

Could there have been a party on the 'Tattoo' that night? It was reported it didn't leave. But doesn't mean there wasn't a party! Soul Beach Festival weekend.

[Lala'sMom]

Where's Colombo?  Could this be the reason for all the cover up?  Could this be the reason that all the higher ups have been so silent?  It's not about Natalee in this passage...it's about the dirty deeds that have been happening for some time. Yes, this is making more sense by the minute...MOO

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners

[klaasend]

Are the pop ups set to aggresive today? I have fought off ten in the last 15 minutes?

I'm not getting any

[klaasend]

Where's Colombo?  Could this be the reason for all the cover up?  Could this be the reason that all the higher ups have been so silent?  It's not about Natalee in this passage...it's about the dirty deeds that have been happening for some time. Yes, this is making more sense by the minute...MOO

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners

Very possible

[Blonde]

PENHAUL: We don`t have that answer yet. We are looking into that to see what the boat`s movements were. We do know from the owner, Marcus Williams (sic), that Steve Croes did have a key to the boat. But the owner also tells us that the boat has a special electronic security system on it and he doesn`t believe that Steve Croes would have been able to take the boat without his permission. And he has described Steve Croes as a model employee, Nancy

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Marcus+Williams++steve+croes&fr=ybr_sbc&u=edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/17/ng.01.html&w=marcus+williams+steve+croes&d=KcwNyXDuQL0q&icp=1&.intl=us

[Kat_Gram]

Didn't Andre's statement have Joran and Guido leaving one of the casinos to get more money for gambling from the Sloot place ?
..
Does anyone think that perhaps Steve was the drug connection that Sunday night ? Via any one of the three ? There is some tie that binds by guilt and complicity all four of them, if Steve is the one named.
.. Too many people lied to protect their own interests. This probably was a simple case to solve, but too many people had to insert themeselves into it and crap it up with their self serving lies because they could not accept that what happened to Natalee happened to girls all the time, the premeditated rape and drugging of tourist girls,they had looked the other way. Boys will be boys kind of thing. Except this one died and a Mother would not give up.

[Blue Moon]

Remember what Freddie said in his statement, "She kept falling until she didn't get up".  She was running from a gang rape and gang means more than 1.  And I still believe it was at Jorans home or inside the Sloot residence with Paulus in attendance. (MO)

[San]

Steve Croes was fired from the Tattoo and given a bigger, better job as DJ where?  The den of iniquity...so he can keep targeting young unsuspecting females. Pay me enough and continue to pay me and I will keep quiet...I bet if he is named in all this...he sings faster than Taco can spin...SWEAT ALERT!! MOO

They will not put one finger on Steve Croes.  Steve Croes will deny everything.  They need proof that he was involved and by proof I mean other witnesses coming forward.  All he has to do is say I have no idea what Joran is saying.  I don't even know him.  Joran is a pathological liar and he says it himself.

San
You know I agree with you...it won't go anywhere.  Steve Croes is in this too deep, if it is him, because of everything he's done before and since too.  Joran confesses and it all goes away...I still think that will be the outcome.  Maybe Mos has been looking for that loose end...Steve Croes.  I don't think for  one minute that any pressure will come to bear on him in all this.  Paulus still has the key to the skeleton closet and I am certain he's not afraid to use it. 

Lala's, this is what they are hoping for.  They want us to believe this story so bad.  I truly believe that most of this is staged.  Joran has the story down pat as to what he was going to say.  He did not implicate one person and at the end of the day he will say the friend who helped him is no longer on the island and I knew him as XYZ but XYS wasn't his real name so I don't know where he is now. 

The only thing Joran told the truth about is that Natalee died when he was there.  Everything else is a lie.

So then I guess that if he took Natalee out to see he didn't get home the time he did and it wasn't him on the computer, etc.