Natalee Case Discussion #720 2/3 -

[Port Valerie]

Brief report on Fox News.com

[SunnyinTX]

by Greta Van Susteren

 Received this by email from OTR Producer Tim Silfies:

From: Silfies, Tim
To: Van Susteren, Greta; Cooper, Meade
Sent: Sun Feb 03 19:47:06 2008
Subject: Fw: Pressrelease Holloway case (3 february 2008)

Judge denies Prosecutor’s request to hold Joran in pretrial detention. Prosecutor to appeal decision. Prosecutor and police to continue their investigation against JVS. Press conference tomorrow at 12.

[Dihannah1]

Gretawire.com

Investigative judge reopens inquiry against J. v.d. S. but refuses pretrial detention; prosecutor plans appeal

The investigative judge found that secretly taped conversations and video between J.v.d.S and a third person were sufficient reason to reopen the judicial inquiry against J.v.d.S by January 30, 2008.

However, the judge held that the tapes handed over to the Public Prosecutor by the Dutch crime reporter Pieter R. de Vries, were insufficient to order additional pre trial detention.

The Public Prosecutor’s Office will appeal the judge’s ruling on pre trial detention.

On January 20, 2008 De Vries showed a part of his material to two public prosecutors. The tapes show the moments on which J.v.d. S. tells his version of events for the first time to a third party and tells his story of the fate of Natalee Holloway on May 30, 2005. The contents of the tapess and the way J.v.d.S. ultimately tells his story create the impression with the Office, that this version of events could come close to the truth.

The Office responded positive to the question of De Vries whether the Office could use and would like to use his material. This is in conformity with the end of last year’s statement that the Office will investigate every clue to the case. The Public Prosecutor’s Office regards the material of a serious nature.
Hence the Office did not await the broadcasting of the program which had been announced by De Vries for February, 3rd, 2008, but acted speedily by requesting the reopening of the judicial inquiry by the investigative judge, which was granted by him.

Before requesting the judge to reopen the investigation, the Public Prosecutor wanted to review additional tapes that were recorded during this operation. This process to verify and validate the tapes was done on January 25th and 26th 2008. By February 1st the Office received the final materials.

It’s important to note that neither the Public Prosecutor Office or the Police has had any involvement with the activities of De Vries. Nor any influence on him or his team. In our view the material can be used for the purpose of the investigation.

The Office finds that the story of J.v.d.S corroborates to a large extent the results of the investigation to date. Despite the fact that the Office values the statements by J.v.d.S. properly, the Office is obliged to proceed judiciously. Confession evidence always requires a more thorough investigation.

It may be the case that in the eyes of the public the disappearance of Natalee Holloway has been solved by J.v.d.S.’s statements presented in the crime program of Peter R. de Vries. However, while video tape may present a strong case in a tv news show, it may be insufficient for a finding of guilt by a Judge. It is up to the Court to evaluate the materials and the statements, and to find out their significance in relation to other results of the investigation. It is not the Public Prosecutor’s Office’s position to refer in any way to the guilty question: that is for the Court. Apart from this again there is a big difference between the reality of a courtroom and the reality of television screen.

In summary, on Friday, February 1st the Public Prosecutor requested in the wake of the new materials the investigative judge to order the pretrial detention of J.v.d.S. The judge denied the request reasoning that the new materials did not meet his threshold for a new pretrial detention, a threshold he put very high because of earlier multiple arrests and pretrial detention periods concerning this suspect.
This means that the Office is legally not able to have J.v.d.S. arrested in the Netherlands.
The Public Prosecutor’s Office will appeal that decision.

The Office of the Public Prosecution and the police will continue their investigation into the story by J.v.d.S. The investigation will not be limited to Aruba. All materials put at our disposal by Peter R. de Vries will be checked and double checked. Forensic scientists will be asked to investigate and give their opinion on the physical condition of Natalee Holloway, before, during and after the time she spent on the beach with J.v.d.S., as he claims.

On Monday February 4th 2008 at 12.00 there will be a pressconference, held in the government pressroom in Oranjestad.

[nonesuche]

What was the wording from the courts concerning the reason Paulus was denied money for all his troubles....wasn't it something about 4 AM???? Help me here. Please.

Lala's I remember something about 4am too, can't remember if it was related to the ATM or that he picked up Joran around then at Mickey D's ????? Klaas is finally cooking some dinner for she and her family, but I know when she returns she will know.

[Lala'sMom]

by Greta Van Susteren

 Received this by email from OTR Producer Tim Silfies:

From: Silfies, Tim
To: Van Susteren, Greta; Cooper, Meade
Sent: Sun Feb 03 19:47:06 2008
Subject: Fw: Pressrelease Holloway case (3 february 2008)

Judge denies Prosecutor’s request to hold Joran in pretrial detention. Prosecutor to appeal decision. Prosecutor and police to continue their investigation against JVS. Press conference tomorrow at 12.

Did I not say this yesterday???  HUH? HUH?  I did, I knew it.  There will be nothing else done here..they do not want to connect the dots...they will not do it. 

[Ono]

Well, one thing has been established: Joran is 100 per cent cold-blooded and mercenary to the bone.

Hey Ono! Long time no see! You've been missed 

Hey Mishy!  I've missed everyone too. Thanks for kind words.

Had to step away from this for awhile as it's too upsetting.  Had such high hopes again with the introduction of Mr. Mos into the picture.

[BIGORANGECRUSH]

PAPA is the one Joran is covering for

I agree Froggy.  Ribbit & Croak   

Most likely they would have found a semen deposit by Paulas as well! That another reason to get rid of the body. Also the wound to the head was another factor.

[justinsmama]

What was the wording from the courts concerning the reason Paulus was denied money for all his troubles....wasn't it something about 4 AM???? Help me here. Please.

Not only that, but that he had picked both of them, Nat and Joran, up at that time.

[fatcatlurker]

I've been lurking for yrs. foaming at the mouth is a sign of od of date rape drug. Remember if they find her they will see that shit...  I think they are all guilty.  And what about the heavy battery charge, I've always been curious about a triangle gone wrong where Natalee was involved.   

[chelebele]

Several updates on Gretawire...Press conference tomorrow...judge refuses to approve Joran's arrest, prosecutor will appeal....

[Lala'sMom]

What was the wording from the courts concerning the reason Paulus was denied money for all his troubles....wasn't it something about 4 AM???? Help me here. Please.

Lala's I remember something about 4am too, can't remember if it was related to the ATM or that he picked up Joran around then at Mickey D's ????? Klaas is finally cooking some dinner for she and her family, but I know when she returns she will know.

Thanks...I think what I am looking for is what the court said in relation to denying his compensation...but I am not sure.

[nonesuche]

Thanks for posting the Gretawire transcript Dihannah, I admit I refuse to give her website one hit so I would not have seen it if you hadn't posted it.

It doesn't matter what the sorry-assed judges in the dutch system decide anymore. For decades now the dutch have been promoting the criminal's rights over the victim's rights increasingly - so no surprise there anymore.

What one hopes now happens is that all those in the US who blithely continued to visit that parasite island, will FINALLY see that essentially Aruba never investigated properly, that it was all smoke and mirrors and the good ole dutch protecting their own in that sick enclave of misfits.

You have to wonder who would go there now on vacation, knowing they might be the next one slipped into the ocean post being given a mickey?

Whoever does go after this needs to have their head examined......

[crazybabyborg]

   waving to all new members and members we've missed!

[cubbeegirl]

I've been lurking for yrs. foaming at the mouth is a sign of od of date rape drug. Remember if they find her they will see that shit...  I think they are all guilty.  And what about the heavy battery charge, I've always been curious about a triangle gone wrong where Natalee was involved.   

I agree

[sb]

While the Cage was slammed shut this afternoon, I read over in BFN that the July 2005 tourist finding of a hand/forearm was ringing some bells as regarding the statement by joran. One poster pointed out that that finding and its condition when found, would have been consistent with remains having been in the water uncontained for about a month.

JQK said that by now she would be unrecoverable.  If there was no trap, and joran is accurately portraying how it went down, the sad fact is that the Persistence will have nothing to find.

In fact, it would be likely that Natalee has already BEEN found... no one recognized it at the time though.

Except maybe ALE. Therein lies the problem.

Where are the remains now?

Another black mark against them, for sure.

[Kiwi]

Lets look at a drug and alcohol time line. As time goes by a mobile Natalee would have gotten better from alcohol. A drug overdose would start to hit her within a half hour to an hour. She goes unresponsive at about 2:30 am. She would have had to take something after she left the bar, while in the car or they simply raped and murdered her. Either way Joran fixes the specific point at which he called for her removal. This can't be just a slap on the wrist. Do the right thing Aruba throw away the key.

[chelebele]

lol looks like everybody saw Greta's updates at one time!

[Lala'sMom]

What was the wording from the courts concerning the reason Paulus was denied money for all his troubles....wasn't it something about 4 AM???? Help me here. Please.

Not only that, but that he had picked both of them, Nat and Joran, up at that time.

That is what I was thinking...no way she was dumped by then if she was in his car.  She was unconscious...Paulus did say he would take care of it...he did.  I want to see Paulus cell records too...he called someone to find a stooge to pay to get rid of her....Paulus is written all over this.

[Destiny]

I don't think Joran will get a place to rest from now on; if I see the reactions at his hiding place and hear of the reactions on his hyves.nl site he only has two options left: confess the whole truth, take his punishment (and show a lot of remorse) or........... Get lynched! I think that there are people over here that are TOTALY fed up with his conduct.

The world will be his prison whether he is behind bars or not. He will never be able to walk the streets without being looked on as a plague. He is a selfish, greedy leper to all mankind. He is a marked man.

There is nothing Joe Tacopina or Greta can ever do to spin this.

Right.  Maybe him walking the streets is a much harsher sentence than safely put behind bars.  Only thing about that though, is NOBODY ELSE would be safe!  He'd do it again!   

Dihanna,

Remember in the tape today, Joran did say, when asked by Peter if Joran was worried about his good buddy turning him in....Joran replied "NO...I have something. the same thing on him...so he can't turn me in"

This means....Joran and (fill in the blank)...HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE!    Killed and disposed of body....that is why, I think Joran was/is so nonchalant about everything...

JMOHO...Dest

Dest,  yes I remember that.  That's why I believe if this isn't taken care of as it should be (life in prison, at the least), it will happen again and again.  But at the same time, I fear there will be no (legal) justice, so the Dutch people will need to take it into there own hands....  He IS a danger to society.   

I almost wish he was being hounded and followed by papparazzi so we know what/where he is at all times for people's safety, until he's behind bars.  Where's those pesky pap's when we need 'em...

They are all clustered outside the nut house waiting for Brittany Spears to give them the finger through the window.

[crazybabyborg]

I've been lurking for yrs. foaming at the mouth is a sign of od of date rape drug. Remember if they find her they will see that shit...  I think they are all guilty.  And what about the heavy battery charge, I've always been curious about a triangle gone wrong where Natalee was involved.   

Yeah, Joran hasn't told the whole truth. He's pretty well put behind him that he knows nothing about it, and I think the show will establish she died with him, but there are still layers and layers to come out.