Natalee Case Discussion #721 2/3- 2/4/08

[Anna]

hlwagner,

Very good points and the most sense I have ever seen out of Simian.

Add to that that ALE very oddly has asked all the parents and stepparents if Natalee had a history of seizures meaning they have already heard Joran's story before

Nothing was done then and it appears nothing will be done yet again.



Heading for the Monkey Bunkey.  Perhaps after seeing this coverage by ABC News, we will know a little bit more.  Bit by bit, it is coming to light more all the time.

Goodnight, All.

.

[CapsLockWizard]

When the crap starts, and it will, about details in Joran's story not possibly being true, and the defense team starts pointing to that as evidence that Joran was just making the whole thing up, there needs to be a resounding cry for him to be hooked to a polygragh operated by our FBI. If he's going to insist he's a liar, then that's a way for him to have an objective machine discern the truth.

I was re-reading Simian/Shango.  This is how it's been for almost three years.  Whoever Simian is knew this back then.   

Joran was alone (one witness); there is no evidence & there is no body (it's in the ocean ); Joran did it, and he can't testify against himself.

This is so sad.  He can talk about it all day long, but noone can do anything because the body was dumped in the ocean (and shoes?). (A confession will be thrown out of court if there is no evidence).


Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:03 am
1. No body; no crime.
2. A grown woman gone missing.
3. Één getuige is géén getuige. (One witness is no witness).
4. No suspect is allowed to testify against himself.
5. A confession will be thrown out of court if there is no evidence.

Joran Can, But the weakest Link now is the the Father.

Well when they find the body, they will find the shoes.

Shango also says that they never went to the ocean...

so Joran is lying...

[eightball06512]

natalee puked in kalpoes car. 151 and motion sickness will do that. also out came some date rape drug so she might not have been as druged as once thought. i think she was more aware than they bargined for. she saw faces ,"i dont know these people". the sezures were from trauma plus adrinalin from fighting for her life. i dont think it happened on the beach. thats just where they take them to wake up.

[CapsLockWizard]

The practice to go to the beach to have Sex is also fabricated. In the 70's tll mid 80's it that was the practice...In Aruba they go to Apratments...they have these called quiky's apratment and there is where they have gone...It is this practice that the young generation is using...The beach is out, The Farro or Lighthouse is out, Doeing it in a Car is out,

For 50 bucks you go to one of these 3 type of apartments and when done just leave the key at the front and your are done.

There is where they must have gone...it is what those that prictice on forbidden fruits do.


 

[hotping]

natalee puked in kalpoes car. 151 and motion sickness will do that. also out came some date rape drug so she might not have been as druged as once thought. i think she was more aware than they bargined for. she saw faces ,"i dont know these people". the sezures were from trauma plus adrinalin from fighting for her life. i dont think it happened on the beach. thats just where they take them to wake up.

Welcome 8 Ball! I agree with You....Natalee did not die at the beach...

[hotping]

The practice to go to the beach to have Sex is also fabricated. In the 70's tll mid 80's it that was the practice...In Aruba they go to Apratments...they have these called quiky's apratment and there is where they have gone...It is this practice that the young generation is using...The beach is out, The Farro or Lighthouse is out, Doeing it in a Car is out,

For 50 bucks you go to one of these 3 type of apartments and when done just leave the key at the front and your are done.

There is where they must have gone...it is what those that prictice on forbidden fruits do.


 

Caps You are indeed a very smart wizard.....Thanks for helping Us out.....

[Altruist]

To my mind, Simian, Shango & some of the other posters on the front pages of SM during those June 2005 days are the conspirator's communicating with each other about what & how the future handling of the situation would take place.

Sociopath's are known to be able to pass polygraph tests, reference Green Mile Serial Killer.

JVDStoolscum's telling of his sexual prowess to ALE involved 2 blowjobs, no sex or lying down til he was in the comfort of his "garden apartment" (that's a garden?  not in my neck of the woods it isn't)

Don't forget these perverts have had 2.67% years to get these stories into the Sociopath's mind.  He IS NOT the brightest bulb, that is why the silence was so important.

The corruption is in full bloom & unless the occupants DO SOMETHING DRASTIC it is how it will always be. 

Americans & all tourists who go to that evil place take their chances, as the beauties stop their vacations even the dumpy, ugly tourists will be their prey as they must feed their hunger for entertainment & THEY WILL.

[hotping]

Goodnight All!

[CapsLockWizard]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm ***** NAT ****
Mary( Natalee )  never heard the buoy toll (She was never was on the Ocean)
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

[Justice4all]

Hi Monkeys,

I was wondering why the lobster/crab cages keep coming up? Joran said his accomplice dumped her body over the boat. I just don't see them doing the gruesome act of chopping up the body of a dead girl and putting her into a trap/cage, then dumping her. I completely agree with the poster here who said daury is daddy. It makes perfect sense. No wonder Paulus was sweating so profusely onto his kitchen table when Beth and her friends were talking to him the next day. Can you imagine? Here sits the mother of the girl you just dumped into the sea! Beth said it best "Sons of Bitches".

Does Beth still like Greta? I can't believe after all the time Greta spent w/Beth she would say that she believes Joran. I can't stand Greta!!!

Maybe because they know a crab trap and knife were stollen and they know Natalee was taken out to sea.  What makes me sick is that I really believe ALE, KLPD, FBI all of them know.  FBI's hands are tied.

Forgot to say WELCOME!

Hi Klaasend!!!
Thank you for your welcome!! I love this site! I have been lurking for so long, but with this new developement, I just had to come talk with you guys. You know, I had forgotten that a crab trap and knife were stolen. There is so much info from way back it's hard to remember it all. I still tend to think they just dumped her into the sea. If you are right that the FBI has known this...... it's just sad.

I have seen so many otherwise brilliant monkeys demand our government go in like storm troopers and demand justice from Aruba.  Darn, we are a constitutional republic.  Short of them having attacked us or having attacked a neighbor who has America's interests, we cannot do that.  We can subtly nudge and offer assistance, but our hands are tied.  Can you imagine if we went in like we did in Granada or Afghanistan, started dropping bombs and started shooting people what be our outcome? 

We are a government who wants its citizens to see what the facts are and make their own decisions.  That is called freedom of speech.  As I see it we are expressing that here, as well as our freedom of the press, something not all can do.  We are making our decision to stay away from Aruba, and offering evidence to our fellowman as to why he/she should stay out of Aruba.  Beth has been given carte blanch to do that under our laws.  She has been given freedom of travel to and from Arbua and Holland by our government.  If they were not on her side, that would be stopped.  They are letting Beth tell Natalee's story, which will win friends and influence enemies or sink Aruba by withdrawing the all mighty American dollar.  When Americans who have built Aruba and have invested there see that it is sinking due to this incident, our government made up of it caring citizens, will do the bombing --- they will stop traveling there, quit investing there, the cruise lines will no longer go there.  This is somewhat of an embargo imposed upon Aruba by America's spokespersons, you and me.

Tyler,
I don't know what my posts have anything to do with what you just wrote. I never said anything about our government going over there like storm troopers. Why are you quoteing me?

[Destiny]

Goodnight All!

G'nite Hotping...

I'm going to bed too   Nite ALL!

Dest

[Justice4all]

I did not see the video yet, but based upon synopsis information:

It seems as though it was more simple than we have over-analyzed it to be. I think the following can be safely deduced. There was a date-rape drug, of some sort, administered on Natalee, while she was in CnC. The four of them left the bar with Natalee, while the substance took its initial effects.  SK, DK, JVdS, and NH drove around the island, while the substance took full effect. Along the way, there was probably making-out going on between Natalee and Joran. Joran probably figured that he could score with the incapacitated Natalee, and requested to be dropped off by K2 at a spot, close (but not too close) to the hotel where Natalee was staying. The effects may have taken place while still in the car, but if not, had certainly began taking serious effect upon Natalee.  No, on the beach, he continued his version of romance. At some point, Natalee died of a combination of alcohol and drugs (the substance administered, while at Cnc). Joran, now panicking over being in the presence of a deceased Natalee, has to make on the spot decisions.  He probably figure that a dead tourist would not look good for him, whether or not it was an accident. Taking a dead tourist tot the hospital would not even look got for him. Wrongly, he makes the choice to disappear the body. First, he pulls her off the beach and hides her in any dark foliage that is closeby.  He walks towards hotels, texting DK.  This was probably the 8 minute call. SK, the least involved, in my opinion, probably goes home and falls asleep, as stated. DK, probably on the computer, as he indicates in PVs, sporadically splits attention between online friend from Florida and Joran. In DK's mind, he knows Natalee was not in good shape when he had last seen her. SK does not ask about her until the next day, as he, too, knows that Natalee was not in good shape when he had last seen her. Joran makes it to a pay phone and manages to call home.  Someone in the house, Paulus or Val (under instruction from Paulus) get on the computer as Joran and casually browse the internet.  Meawhile, Paulus now gets involved.  Someone with a boat, as confessed, now enters the picture.  Natalee, still hidden away in darkness or in foliage along the beach, is now drug towards the water and loaded into an awaiting boat, which pulls up close to shore.  If it did not pull up close to shore, than it pulled close enough, even if the body had to be floated out to the awaiting boat.

How much information was given to DK? DK, more than likely, has shared information with his brother, SK.  They may be in this story today because (1) they will seem as though they did not rat out a friend (seeming noble among peers and knowing that their lack of guilt would eventually set them free), (2) they may have been in on the administering of substance at CnC (whether being the dealer or actually placing it in the drink), (3) Paulus reinforcing their need to remain silent, assuring them lack of recovery of a body, and (4) publicity, with potential to monetarily gain from the situation.

Who was the boat owner? - The million dollar question.... Good guesses would be Koen, Steve Croes, Lorenzo. Paulus was probably present. Telling would be if Joran truly went to school, as it was probably encourage so as not to spoof anyone that an "out of the ordinary" event had occurred to his teachers and classmates.  Nonetheless, at school or not, her body was probably dispoded of that evening, as it is starting to to seem.  Another good question to clarify - Were the fisherman's huts truly broken into that evening for purposes of utilizing the missing items (crab trap, knife, etc..) to assist in the disposal of the deceased Natalee?

Rambling a bit, and maybe wrong, but irrelevant suspicions would include: (1) was Paulus in the casino tape, (2) did Paulus withdraw money in the middle of the night (withdrawl of monet would only prove that Paulus ventured out in the wee hours of the night and became immediately involved).

Interesting thought to consider... Joran, Paulus, and boater were speeding out into the ocean, and away from the coastline (maybe from 3AM - 530AM, just guessing), all the while prepping the body for final disposal, once destination was reached.  To make sure Joran went to chool, and after completing dumping of body, dropped back off to shore earlt in morning. Do we believe: (1) bus stop theory, Paulus drove him to school - Joran near Loenzo's home, or (2) phone call at approximately 630AM (Steve Croes) ??

What has been bogus along the way, in our collective thinking? Rock scene, concrete around pool, furniture delivery, belt discovery, Paul Brough, Posner, Sander losing his phone, columbian necktie (unless he was the boater), Pitbull (unless he was the boater), the landfill, the incinerator, lion's den, rave party, GVC, Guido, etc..

What is still unanswered, for me: (1) gardner seeing boys near racquet club, (2) next day at raquest club, and in casinos, (3) looking sweaty when posse arrived late at their house, and others that I can not think of right (feel free to add to my little list)...

Bottom line. Hard to corroborate date-rape drug, if body not discovered. Must accept accidental death theory, if body not discovered. Illegally disposing of a body would definitely be an appropriate charge, accident or not. Can it be proved, without a body, despite his taped confession. Death, can not be conclusively be declared without body. Maybe I am wrong here, but his defense will probably contend that it is more than logical to suspect dead body; however, it can not be concluded as fact unless dead body is discovered. Another appropriate charge would probably be obstruction of justice. Lies and Paulus' manipulation of influential players, within the investigation.

One thing that would change the dynamics would be Natalee's body. DNA and forensics would show substance (or lack thereof) and then the argument would definitely come into play about whether its administration caused the death (equating to manslaughter), semen - no big deal ("she was coherent when I had sex with her... she consented...then died after sex"), or injuries (likely to be explained through the disposal - "her lifeless head hit the side of the boat"). Even if her body was found, illegally disposing of a corpse and obstruction of justice of justice are the most likely to be prosecuted upon.  Joran was a minor, poor Joran, he has a good record, future ahead of him, been traumatized over the last two and a half years, please show some leniency. A few year sentence, at maximum, only has to do half the time (a day good time for every day spent in jail), subtract time already spent in jail, Joran would be out in no time...

I am just rambling...good thoughts, though, I think....

 

Good job Buckshot!!!! I agree with what you wrote!!

[Tylergal]

Hi Monkeys,

I was wondering why the lobster/crab cages keep coming up? Joran said his accomplice dumped her body over the boat. I just don't see them doing the gruesome act of chopping up the body of a dead girl and putting her into a trap/cage, then dumping her. I completely agree with the poster here who said daury is daddy. It makes perfect sense. No wonder Paulus was sweating so profusely onto his kitchen table when Beth and her friends were talking to him the next day. Can you imagine? Here sits the mother of the girl you just dumped into the sea! Beth said it best "Sons of Bitches".

Does Beth still like Greta? I can't believe after all the time Greta spent w/Beth she would say that she believes Joran. I can't stand Greta!!!

Maybe because they know a crab trap and knife were stollen and they know Natalee was taken out to sea.  What makes me sick is that I really believe ALE, KLPD, FBI all of them know.  FBI's hands are tied.

Forgot to say WELCOME!

Hi Klaasend!!!
Thank you for your welcome!! I love this site! I have been lurking for so long, but with this new developement, I just had to come talk with you guys. You know, I had forgotten that a crab trap and knife were stolen. There is so much info from way back it's hard to remember it all. I still tend to think they just dumped her into the sea. If you are right that the FBI has known this...... it's just sad.

I have seen so many otherwise brilliant monkeys demand our government go in like storm troopers and demand justice from Aruba.  Darn, we are a constitutional republic.  Short of them having attacked us or having attacked a neighbor who has America's interests, we cannot do that.  We can subtly nudge and offer assistance, but our hands are tied.  Can you imagine if we went in like we did in Granada or Afghanistan, started dropping bombs and started shooting people what be our outcome? 

We are a government who wants its citizens to see what the facts are and make their own decisions.  That is called freedom of speech.  As I see it we are expressing that here, as well as our freedom of the press, something not all can do.  We are making our decision to stay away from Aruba, and offering evidence to our fellowman as to why he/she should stay out of Aruba.  Beth has been given carte blanch to do that under our laws.  She has been given freedom of travel to and from Arbua and Holland by our government.  If they were not on her side, that would be stopped.  They are letting Beth tell Natalee's story, which will win friends and influence enemies or sink Aruba by withdrawing the all mighty American dollar.  When Americans who have built Aruba and have invested there see that it is sinking due to this incident, our government made up of it caring citizens, will do the bombing --- they will stop traveling there, quit investing there, the cruise lines will no longer go there.  This is somewhat of an embargo imposed upon Aruba by America's spokespersons, you and me.

Tyler,
I don't know what my posts have anything to do with what you just wrote. I never said anything about our government going over there like storm troopers. Why are you quoteing me?

Well, I am glad I got up.  I could not sleep, so happy I found this.  No, I am not quoting you, but agreeing with you that FBI hands are tied!

[Justice4all]

Ohhhh ok. Sorry I misunderstood. Yes so sad that the FBI's hands are tied. I'm still up reading this site. There are so many interesting threads here to read, I can't stop!

[MumInOhio]

I think if we knew the whole truth it would be even more shocking that what we think might have happened. I think the Kalpoes were sexually involved (deepak said as much in an email). I think Paulus was involved from the time Natalee died. Of course Joran, called his father when his date died. We know van stratten helped to undermine the investigation and that Jahnsen deliberately arrested the security gurds when she knew they were innocent. We know the Judges are personal friends of the Sloots and changed the search warrant to restrict the search. The crime itself was uglier than we can imagine, the talk of a head wound in the initial alibi was not misdirection. It was said because they feared the body could wash up, Joran even said he was lucky the body was not found. This is a hideous crime by three suspects with a government coverup.

Did you notice DeVries never mentioned the coverup? Thats because he knows only how far he can push the real story.

Good Morning......Is this why they waited to see about filing charges?  They wanted to see how much would be told before they started damage control....

[Spock]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm ***** NAT ****
Mary( Natalee )  never heard the buoy toll (She was never was on the Ocean)
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

I interpreted that quite differently: she was dead on the boat and therefore could not hear the buoy toll.

[MumInOhio]

Hi Monkeys,

I was wondering why the lobster/crab cages keep coming up? Joran said his accomplice dumped her body over the boat. I just don't see them doing the gruesome act of chopping up the body of a dead girl and putting her into a trap/cage, then dumping her. I completely agree with the poster here who said daury is daddy. It makes perfect sense. No wonder Paulus was sweating so profusely onto his kitchen table when Beth and her friends were talking to him the next day. Can you imagine? Here sits the mother of the girl you just dumped into the sea! Beth said it best "Sons of Bitches".

Does Beth still like Greta? I can't believe after all the time Greta spent w/Beth she would say that she believes Joran. I can't stand Greta!!!

Maybe because they know a crab trap and knife were stollen and they know Natalee was taken out to sea.  What makes me sick is that I really believe ALE, KLPD, FBI all of them know.  FBI's hands are tied.
Forgot to say WELCOME!

Klaas....I think we have a BINGO!

[MumInOhio]

Stom posted on the Shango thread yesterday that Paulus' codename is Daury????

If we want to tie in Lorenzo, we need his real name..van Rijn/van Gijn/van Geijn.or maybe van Dijn. IMO the name was changed to confuse. I was following this up on the Shango thread last week....I found a judge with the van Gijn and that is what Jossy called him....and americaninaruba always said van Geijn.

Beans mentioned Vadir...this is the first person I thought of when I was catching up last night...also touched on in the Shango thread and reportedly a cousin of Joran, but more importantly it is who Beth believes had something to do with Nat's disappearance.

And we still have Koen and Sander...Sander it was rumored was to be arrested in the Netherlands in May 2006 with Guido. Never happened...Jossy said Guido was not the one with scratches.

[MumInOhio]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm ***** NAT ****
Mary( Natalee )  never heard the buoy toll (She was never was on the Ocean)
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

I interpreted that quite differently: she was dead on the boat and therefore could not hear the buoy toll.

I did too, Spock...but I am not very good at decoding Shange or Simian!

[vzzzbx]

Hi all, I'm new here. I watched here last night during the show (I'm Dutch). I couldn't comment then because my account hadn't been approved yet. 

My 2 cents on Joran's accomplice "Daury":

Joran has been giving conflicting statements about him:

1. At first to Patrick he says it's an older person.

2. Later on Daury is "25 or something".

3. To Patrick he says he's known Daury all his life, but last Friday in Paul & Witteman's talkshow on the phone, Joran is caught off guard and asked if he has since talked to his alledged accomplice who (alledgely) helped him get rid of the body, he says "no, it was a guy I met in Aruba, like 6 months ago". Mind you, he is talking here about the guy in his "made up" story, who isn't supposed to exist if you ask me.