Natalee Case Discussion #721 2/3- 2/4/08

[MumInOhio]

Sorry no manners this morning...Welcome to all the new Monkeys


Thanks Nut and you are welcome Jerry!

[vms]

duh moment here...why did Taco say the Aruban Coast Guard looked at that pay phone??????

I thought that was strange too. Why would the Coast Guard be investigating phone activity?

[Bearlyhere]

JOE T. from GMA this morning

GMA:

Joining us now is Joran van der Sloot's attorney, Joseph Tacopina, to get this side of the story. Thank you Joe for being here.

We know that the prosecutors are asking for the case to be re-opened but right now they're not going to re-arrest your client?

Joe:

Well they tried. The prosecution had this tape for over a week and they struggled with the evidenciary value of it because they didn't even seek to re-arrest Joran for a week. They've arrested him twice in this case with no evidence. They went to a Judge finally after we sort of questioned why they wouldn't even seek an arrest and Joran denied Joran's arrest last night, which speaks volumes for the evidenciary value of this tape.

There are problems inherent in the tape, many of the facts are easily disprovable based on corroborative evidence. No one's asking at this point, certainly I'm not asking anyone to believe Joran, or any of his statements. Clearly his credibility is zero, but look separately, look independently at what he's saying are the facts in this case, the evidence and his story is inconsistent as it was

GMA:

Why would he lie like that?

Joe:

Well look, you know that is the toughest question but the facts are easily disprovable. The guy allegedly with the boat, Daury, wasn't even in Aruba in May of 2005, he's never owned a boat, Joran didn't meet him until 2 months ago so he made up these facts.

On thing that you'll see in this tape recording that you've played earlier is he said, the undercover said "In a boat?" and Joran paused and said "yes". Understand that each and every one of these conversations are after there was marijuana induced, introduced into the set, this undercover if you will provided Joran with drugs, marijuana, things like that, said things, he was acting like an idiot quite frankly but don't forget this individual just said he was making himself out to be a mobster, a criminal, a big individual and I think Joran was just playing this game.

He's [inaudible) about a lot of other things too independent of this investigation.

GMA:

But why would he go into such great detail. For Joran to know that people have suspected him and to go into such great detail, to talk with someone as he did with this informant, has a lot of people saying, at the very least, if he did not kill her, that he was there and was involved in the disappearance and wasn't that a crime in itself?

Joe:

Well actually no, there is no admission. This thing has been deemed a confession and that was done for ratings for this guy's show in The Netherlands last night. It was deemed a confession, there's no confession, there's no admission of a crime by Joran in any of these tapes, which is very telling, I mean that's one of the things the prosecution

GMA:

But to say that he was there, that she may still have been alive when she was thrown into the water?

Joe:

No, no, he didn't say that. There are various portions of this tape where his story is drastically different and that's part of the reason, you know he doesn't have details that are accurrate, his story changes over 20 hours but what he says is she died, he panicked and called a friend from a payphone, which by the way is disprovable because the Aruban Coast Guard has already looked at that payphone and there's no such call, we have the records.

GMA:

What are the authorities telling you right now?

Joe:

They're looking at the case again, which they should do. Joran deserves this if you will, but the fact of the matter is he's still not responsible, the evidence, not Joran, the evidence says he's not responsible for Natalee's death.

GMA:

Joseph Tacopina, thank you very much.

I wonder how many times JT practiced this in front of the mirror before he could lie say it with a straight face.

[MumInOhio]

duh moment here...why did Taco say the Aruban Coast Guard looked at that pay phone??????

I thought that was strange too. Why would the Coast Guard be investigating phone activity?

Maybe the phone was on a buoy...strange Coast guard...van Loon said they searched his boat too.....

[Bearlyhere]

hi jules 

Robots, are you flirting?

 

i dont know

LOL

should i be ?

I see, you were just acting cool.  I was jealous for a minute.

 

[littletxlady]

Morning Monkeys    Sorry if this has already been posted

Monday, 4 February 2008
Natalee Holloway Update 34: Peter R. De Vries centre of Media Circus. Joran possibly still in hiding Press conference this afternoon
 
Peter R. De Vries will be on Larry King on Wednesday, is still in talks with Oprah Winfrey and others. Yesterday's edition of his show had a record of 7 million viewers in Holland, almost half of the entire population of the country.

The appartment complex where Joran might be hiding is practically under siege by journalists. Local inhabitants have hired a security firm and police are standing by as well, even though it has not yet been confirmed that van der Sloot is residing there presently.

The car used in last night's hidden camera sting operation is for sale at a second hand car dealer, for 63.900 euros. It is unknown at this point if it still contains the elaborate camera set up that de Vries installed.

The press conference in Aruba is at 12.00 local time, which is 11.00 am in New York and 8.00 am in Los Angeles.

Posted by Olivier de Vries at 12:02 2 comments Links to this post   



Natalee Holloway Update 33: Steve Gregory Croes, former suspect may be "Daury", pressconference by Arubans tonight..
 
Steve Gregory Croes, who was also arrested two and a half years ago, but later released is currently suspected of being "Daury" by dutch newssite www.Fokkinel.com and VKmag, who earlier had the English transcript of the interview that Peter R. De Vries had with Hans Mos. There has been no confirmation of this rumour so far, by any other source.

Apparently there's a press conference later today by the Aruban Justice department at 12.00 am local time. They have been working quietly behind the scenes to secure an arrest voor van der Sloot before the story would break, but the judge denied their request, despite the taped confession, on the grounds that van der Sloot has been arrested and released twice before. He and others can be called in for questioning, but not against their will.

http://equivocationnation.blogspot.com/

[Observer]

Thanks *******...I know you do a lot of research...do you think it was him in the 'legs' photo?  TIA

Legs photo? What photo is that?

The one that everyone was counting legs to see how many peeps were in the pic. 2 guys and a woman walking in a garden....It was a long time ago TIA

Hard to say for sure,but I guess it's him. His hair may have grown a bit when the pic was taken and he look's shorter in that picture. We know he is tall like Joran and his head is normally shaved,even in 2005.

Lorenzo is a gabber, shaved head, long skinny pale guy.
Posted by: Disappointed Arubian | July 27, 2005 11:54 AM

[MumInOhio]

duh moment here...why did Taco say the Aruban Coast Guard looked at that pay phone??????

I thought that was strange too. Why would the Coast Guard be investigating phone activity?

Maybe the phone was on a buoy...strange Coast guard...van Loon said they searched his boat too.....

I'm a little slow this morning, maybe the Coast Guard boarded his boat...Im sure they didn't search it in his driveway....I wonder if that was the Aruban CG too? Who posted all those links on the Coast Guard a little while back? In the US ONLY the Coast Guard can board a boat......

[littletxlady]

here's the link for SGC article.
http://www.fokkinel.com/2008/02/update-on-holloway-case/

[BUCKSHOT]

If Joran did, in fact, turn the body over to an individual to dispose of without him present, bet your life that it was someone very, very important and trustworthy to him. This clearly implies Paulus' involvement. He has known him his whole life. Joran has trained his own mind into never using the name Paulus in any coversation, ever, regarding Natalee's disappearance. This was a very important job - to dispose of a dead body so that it never resurfaced ever again. A half-ass job would have very negative consequences. It had to be done right and done on the first attempt.

In his tapings, he refers to this person as someone who took out tourists on banana boats, etc. This would lead me to believe that it was Steve Croes. I just cannot see Paulus and Steve Croes on a boat together in the middle of the night, though. However, I do not rule out, entirely, Koen, Lorenzo, or an unknown person, either.

I can completely appreciate comments that do not place them on the beach at all. Joran lives in Aruba. Sex on the beach may not be the coziest of spots for him. An apartment, or his apartment, may have been used more frequently in times past, unless the beach was the only best option, as each scenario evolved differently. If the expiration of Natalee did not take place on the beach, well....... open the books back up. Lots of other scenarios can, again, be plausibly discussed. New concrete, furniture truck, rave parties, trailing white car, Kalpoe role(s), multiple burial sites, and on and on and on.

There are still unanswered questions in my mind, for sure. If you choose to believe that the beach was used, then the theory simplifies, less characters are involved, and dots seem to connect better. Date-rape type drug administered on Natalee, Natalee died, Natalee was taken out to sea, then justice was obstructed at every opportunity. Intentional murder has become less and less a possibility for me lately. I do not rule it out completely, but it seems less likely.

I do feel confident that Paulus did not get a full night of sleep that evening. Paulus told the truth when he said he would do anything to protect his son. Even if he, too, committed crimes in order to help his son.

I think that some of the various stuff uncovered, while searching for the truth, does exist on the island (rave parties, lions den, etc.) but did not come into play on this night.

Deepak and Satish, as posted, do owe Joran a thank you card, at the very least. He has basically given them a "get out of jail card." It is obvious that JPK2 all seek to profit from their experience in this ordeal.

Watch for this... Lawyers will argue that confession, under influence of drugs, is not admissable.  They will challenge legality of recordings. All the while, Joran will say he lied (and look like a bigger liar in the process.)

It is sad, and shows lack of experience with such a case, that ALE/Hans Mos have waited for the airing of the show so as to test public opinion. Public opinion will trump their own abilities to determine value in the recordings. Reaction will also determine which items need addressing, which items need spinning, and which items need to be left alone.

[SunnyinTX]

JUST HAVE TO GET THIS OFF MY CHEST

I did not expect any more or any less of Joran in this confession.  It is just about what I expected.  I have always said that if she had died of natural causes, even from an overdose, Joran and/or his father would have sought help, taken her to the emergency room, called the friends at the Holiday Inn if and when she expired or was resuscitated, and Beth would have been notified.  Joran would have been a hero of some sort for rendering necessary help, but this was not NATURAL CAUSES. 

Further, I expected no more or less of the language he used and his "blame the victim" attitude, because we have seen and heard his Yenta mother, and he is only an extension of her greedy control.  We have seen her lying on TV, heard what she said to Beth & Greta, and witnessed what she raised and called a "child."  She raised a monster.  Normal, good, loving kind people do not raise these kinds of monsters.  He is a product of his environment.

Anita, Paulus, you are reaping what you sowed.  Paulus, you weakling.  You never stood up to that fat blob and told her that your children would need to be raised with morals and discipline.  You let her "woodstock" these children.  She has ruined your life which became warped because of your weakness and her control and in all probability she goaded you for not being a judge and then lied to make you look better, you weakling.  She controlled your family life, your children and has wrecked everything you worked and fought for and now your spawn has finished her off as well.  We hope Val will have enough decency and common sense to distance himself from your grasp and that Joran will no longer be around to kick poor Poppin' Fresh.  He is just a fat little guy who needs your love that you are unable to give him for cleaning out the vacuum cleaner that Joran sucked out of your household.  It's all empty now.  Everybody knows you for what you have done and what your #1 spawn has done.  Empty your vacuum cleaner.  Redeem yourselves.

Well said Tyler and I am bringing this forward for others, like me, who missed it last night. I had to walk away last night after seeing the pictures of Beth.....I had to walk away to keep from saying what was in my mind..cause I would surely have been banned!!

[BlueKYGirl]

I do feel confident that Paulus did not get a full night of sleep that evening. Paulus told the truth when he said he would do anything to protect his son. Even if he, too, committed crimes in order to help his son.

Also, if it's true that Joran was told by the person who helped him to "do normal things" like go home and download porn on the computer, and go to school the next day, that person had to be somewhat smart about legal matters and how things would look after the fact. I just can't see that piece of advice coming from Steve Croes (not to rule him out completely--he could have driven the boat), but I can see it coming from Paulus.

[Bearlyhere]

I'm sure Joran was lying.  Just not sure which part. 

Was he lying when he said, not his parents?

Or maybe telling the truth?
It was not his parents, it was only one parent.

[JusticeDawg]

Taco just got nailed on the "Morning Show with Mike and Juliet."

I'm cutting back flips at how they went directly for Taco. Juliet asked him if he was dropping JVDS.

"I'm not defending the character of Joran, I am defending the evidence that he had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance."

He still don't get it!

JusticeDawg

[mishy]

I haven't been here for a long time but felt it appropriate to stop in now.  Hopefully the Holloway family will finally get some type of resolution.  After reading the translation of Joran's statements last night, I am wondering if he substituted Daury's name for Paulus'. 

Welcome to SM Bob! Many people here think so. Personally I think he was describing Lorenzo Van Rijn(Rumored half brother)

"Im prefer not to tell names,Because he has always had my back"
"Look,this friend is quite clever and he's a bit older,We have been friends since kids"
"I've never told anyone about this man.Its not easy"
"I'll never tell his name,I will take it to my grave"
"I'd give my life to help him"

*******, I agree with you. As I mentioned last night, along with Koen and PVDS, Lorenzo is a very high possibility...MOO

 

[nonesuche]

I don't know how many of you saw Beth on GMA this morning but Diane Sawyer asked her after viewing the tape and hearing/seeing the hideous things that pig had to say about Natalee and joking about how he lost no sleep over it, to ask Beth if she was not disturbed that he was recorded without prior knowledge.

I wanted to slap her face.  Beth told her she was not in the least, that it gave her the answers she needed to get beyond and start to heal and if this is the way to get it, it is the only way or something to that effect, but you could see the wheels grinding in Diane Sawyer's head that she was trying to defend the method by which this information was obtained.  Journalists are below lawyers some days, and today was her beneath lawyer day for me.

Tyler - I wish Beth would ask Diane and also Greta, one simple question. Ask them what would their mother have done had it been them?

Neither Diane Sawyer or Greta van Sustern will ever be at risk of losing a child. That was their own life choice but to say they can truly empathize to the full degree, well however unpopular this statement may be - I do not think either can.

They aren't worth Beth's time and certainly not her worry.

[vzzzbx]

Also, if it's true that Joran was told by the person who helped him to "do normal things" like go home and download porn on the computer, and go to school the next day, that person had to be somewhat smart about legal matters and how things would look after the fact. I just can't see that piece of advice coming from Steve Croes (not to rule him out completely--he could have driven the boat), but I can see it coming from Paulus.

When Joran said this, I got that feeling too. It sounded very much like something a father would say to his son. This was the vibe I got from the way Joran said it, the look in his eyes. He seemed to be talking about his father. But this is just my gut feeling. Also when Patrick said that this person has a "heart of gold" to help Joran like that, Joran seemed touched. That also came across to me like he was thinking of his dad.

[BlueKYGirl]

"Im prefer not to tell names,Because he has always had my back"
"Look,this friend is quite clever and he's a bit older,We have been friends since kids"
"I've never told anyone about this man.Its not easy"
"I'll never tell his name,I will take it to my grave"
"I'd give my life to help him"

[/quote]

I love how Joran is adamant about never telling this guy's name and then the next thing you know he tells it (even if he was lying about the name). Of course, with everything else he's done, why would anyone expect him to keep his word about something like that?

[crazybabyborg]

Morning Monkeys: New, Familiar, and Long Missed!

I'd love nothing more than to be here all day with you, but I'm working and lurking. 

Before I signed in and had my quote button, I ran across this post by *******:

Joran on tape said he would have been screwed if they found her body. Patrick asked why and he never really gave a answer. This confirms what Deepak said..If they find the girl,they will see the shit. You will get 15 years,you can say byyye to that scholarship of yours.

If nothing else,he is hated man right now in Holland. His own words said he was trying to prosper off of a victim he killed,and lost no sleep over any of it. Those people aren't stupid and most are thinking just like us. Everyone will be outraged until he is arrested and convicted,it will be a long time before people forget about last nights show in Holland.

I just had to re-post it and say YES! 
*******************************************************************
I'm going to miss some new monkeys and missed friends as they come to the forum today, so let me say a big



to everybody, right now! 

(This is usually a VERY colorful place, but I'd rather be able to have us all here, than to have us in our Sunday Best) Thanks Dugga! 

[JodyO]

JOE T. from GMA this morning

GMA:

Joining us now is Joran van der Sloot's attorney, Joseph Tacopina, to get this side of the story. Thank you Joe for being here.

We know that the prosecutors are asking for the case to be re-opened but right now they're not going to re-arrest your client?

Joe:

Well they tried. The prosecution had this tape for over a week and they struggled with the evidenciary value of it because they didn't even seek to re-arrest Joran for a week. They've arrested him twice in this case with no evidence. They went to a Judge finally after we sort of questioned why they wouldn't even seek an arrest and Joran denied Joran's arrest last night, which speaks volumes for the evidenciary value of this tape.

There are problems inherent in the tape, many of the facts are easily disprovable based on corroborative evidence. No one's asking at this point, certainly I'm not asking anyone to believe Joran, or any of his statements. Clearly his credibility is zero, but look separately, look independently at what he's saying are the facts in this case, the evidence and his story is inconsistent as it was

GMA:

Why would he lie like that?

Joe:

Well look, you know that is the toughest question but the facts are easily disprovable. The guy allegedly with the boat, Daury, wasn't even in Aruba in May of 2005, he's never owned a boat, Joran didn't meet him until 2 months ago so he made up these facts.

On thing that you'll see in this tape recording that you've played earlier is he said, the undercover said "In a boat?" and Joran paused and said "yes". Understand that each and every one of these conversations are after there was marijuana induced, introduced into the set, this undercover if you will provided Joran with drugs, marijuana, things like that, said things, he was acting like an idiot quite frankly but don't forget this individual just said he was making himself out to be a mobster, a criminal, a big individual and I think Joran was just playing this game.

He's [inaudible) about a lot of other things too independent of this investigation.

GMA:

But why would he go into such great detail. For Joran to know that people have suspected him and to go into such great detail, to talk with someone as he did with this informant, has a lot of people saying, at the very least, if he did not kill her, that he was there and was involved in the disappearance and wasn't that a crime in itself?

Joe:

Well actually no, there is no admission. This thing has been deemed a confession and that was done for ratings for this guy's show in The Netherlands last night. It was deemed a confession, there's no confession, there's no admission of a crime by Joran in any of these tapes, which is very telling, I mean that's one of the things the prosecution

GMA:

But to say that he was there, that she may still have been alive when she was thrown into the water?

Joe:

No, no, he didn't say that. There are various portions of this tape where his story is drastically different and that's part of the reason, you know he doesn't have details that are accurrate, his story changes over 20 hours but what he says is she died, he panicked and called a friend from a payphone, which by the way is disprovable because the Aruban Coast Guard has already looked at that payphone and there's no such call, we have the records.

GMA:

What are the authorities telling you right now?

Joe:

They're looking at the case again, which they should do. Joran deserves this if you will, but the fact of the matter is he's still not responsible, the evidence, not Joran, the evidence says he's not responsible for Natalee's death.

GMA:

Joseph Tacopina, thank you very much.

I wonder how many times JT practiced this in front of the mirror before he could lie say it with a straight face.

It's natural talent with scum like JT. He doesn't have to practice keeping a straight face IMO.